LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, March 22, 2022


The House met at 1:30 p.m.

Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Introduction of Bills

Bill 36–The Manitoba Hydro Amend­ment and Public Utilities Board Amendment Act

Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister for Edu­ca­tion and Early Childhood Learning, that Bill 36, The Manitoba Hydro Amend­ment and Public Utilities Board Amend­ment Act, be now read a first time.

Motion presented.

Mr. Friesen: Madam Speaker, Bill 36 is about en­suring the long-term sus­tain­ability of Hydro, which is currently facing levels of debt that exceed any public utility in Canada, after massive cost overruns at Keeyask and bipole trans­mis­sion lines by a previous gov­ern­ment that added billions of dollars of debt.

      The bill establishes an integrated resource plan, debt equity targets over time to bring Hydro to a more sus­tain­able position. It also protects ratepayers by setting three-year rate periods and setting a cap on any rate increases. The PUB itself and its roles are strength­ened. They get a budget and a role to expand and review and make recom­men­dations on future Hydro construction proposals to ensure the interests of the public and ratepayers are protected.

      The three–the four pillars of Hydro are: low rates, economic dev­elop­ment, carbon-free electricity and a stable foundation.

      Madam Speaker, that foundation was threatened but we will protect it.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

Bill 219–The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act
(Leave for Miscarriage or Stillbirth)

Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): I move, seconded by the member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine), that Bill 219, The Em­ploy­ment Standards Code Amend­ment Act (Leave for Miscarriage or Stillbirth), be now read for the first time.

Motion presented.

Ms. Lathlin: I am pleased to intro­duce Bill 219, The Em­ploy­ment Standards Code Amend­ment Act (Leave for Miscarriage or Stillbirth).

      The unexpected loss can be emotionally trying on expectant and new parents. This bill would allow par­ents to take up to three days of paid leave following a miscarriage or stillbirth. Currently, Manitobans who ex­per­ience a miscarriage or stillbirth have to cut into their sick leave, lose part of their paycheque or risk their jobs just to take time off to heal.

      I hope this Assembly will follow the lead of these other juris­dic­tions and unanimously support this bill.

      Ekosi.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

Committee Reports

Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development


Third Report

Mr. Len

 Isleifson

 (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the third report of the Standing Commit­tee on Social and Economic Development.

Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Com­mit­tee on Social and Economic Dev­elop­ment presents the following–

An Honourable Member: Dispense.

Madam Speaker: Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Third Report.

Meetings

Your Committee met on March 21, 2022 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building.

Matters under Consideration

·         Bill (No. 4)The Path to Reconciliation Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la Loi sur la réconciliation

·         Bill (No. 9) – The Scrap Metal Act / Loi sur la ferraille

·         Bill (No. 12) The Peak of the Market Reorganization Act / Loi sur la réorganisation de Peak of the Market

Committee Membership

As per the Sessional Order passed by the House on October 7, 2020 and subsequently amended, Rule 82(2) was waived for the March 21, 2022 meeting, reducing the membership to six Members (4 Government and 2 Official Opposition).

·         Mr. Bushie

·         Hon. Mr. Goertzen

·         Mr. Isleifson

·         Hon. Mr. Johnson

·         Mr. Maloway

·         Mr. Nesbitt

Your Committee elected Mr. Nesbitt as the Vice‑Chairperson.

Substitutions received during committee proceedings:

·         Mr. Brar for Mr. Bushie

Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record

·         Hon. Mr. Lagimodiere

·         Hon. Mr. Gerrard

Public Presentations

Your Committee heard the following two presentations on Bill (No. 12) The Peak of the Market Reorganization Act / Loi sur la réorganisation de Peak of the Market:

Pamela Kolochuk, Peak of the Market

Peter Loewen, Garden Valley Vegetable Growers Ltd.

Written Submissions

Your Committee received the following written submission on Bill (No. 9) – The Scrap Metal Act / Loi sur la ferraille:

Logan Orloff, Orloff Scrap Metals

Bills Considered and Reported

·         Bill (No. 4)The Path to Reconciliation Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la Loi sur la réconciliation

Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment.

·         Bill (No. 9) – The Scrap Metal Act / Loi sur la ferraille

Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment.

·         Bill (No. 12)The Peak of the Market Reorganization Act / Loi sur la réorganisation de Peak of the Market

Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment.

Mr. Isleifson: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by  the hon­our­able member for Riding Mountain (Mr. Nesbitt), that the report of the com­mit­tee be received.

Motion agreed to.

Madam Speaker: Tabling of reports?

Ministerial Statements

Madam Speaker: The hon­our­able Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceed­ings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2).

      Would the hon­our­able minister please proceed with his statement.

Bangladesh In­de­pen­dence Day

Hon. Andrew Smith (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, today I am honoured to join the Bangladesh community in Manitoba and around the world in recognizing and celebrating the 51st anniversary of Bangladesh's independence on March 26th.

      Manitoba is a proud home of a large and vibrant Bangladesh community, which has significantly con­tributed to our province's rich and diverse multi­cultural fabric.

      Canada was one of the first countries to official­ly recognize the independent state of the People's Republic of Bangladesh following the war in 1971.

Recently, on February 14, 2022, Canada and Bangladesh are proud to mark the 50th anniversary of the diplomatic relations between our two nations.

      I also want to note, the UNESCO declared February 21st as a day to promote the preservation and protection of all languages used by people of all over the world and Bangladesh, and it holds a strong con­nection to this day. With the passion and persistence for the local Bangladeshi com­mu­nity, a beautiful plaza has been built in Winnipeg commemorating the importance of all mother languages.

      On this anniversary, I would like to extend my gratitude to the Bangladeshi Manitobans for dedi­ca­tion, preserving their culture and traditions while help­­ing to build a brighter future for our province.

      On behalf of Manitobans, to everyone celebrating here at home and around the world, happy Bangladesh Independence Day.

      Thank you.

Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Today the Manitoba NDP joins Bangladeshis and Bangladeshi Canadians across this province in celebrating Bangladeshi Independence Day, which is on March 26th. After a war of independence, Bangladesh became a nation 51 years ago. The nation is an upstanding member of the international community and its impact can be felt around the world, including here in Manitoba where many Bangladeshis currently live.

      One major group of Bangladeshis in Manitoba are Bangladeshi post-secondary students. Like all inter­national students, these Bangladeshis should be seen by all of us as valuable members of our Manitoban com­munity. We appreciate how they support our eco­nomy, offer their insights into our classrooms and en­rich our cultural landscape.

Unfor­tunately, the PC gov­ern­ment has hiked their tuition and cancelled inter­national health insurance coverage. It's the wrong approach. But, Madam Speaker, new­comers from Bangladesh persevere.

The Manitoba NDP commends all Bangladeshi organizations in this province working for the advancement of their people and culture here in  Manitoba, including the Canada-Bangladesh Association of Manitoba, the University of Winnipeg Bangladeshi Students Association and the University of Manitoba Bangladeshi Students Association–

Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The hon­our­able member's time has expired.

Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Madam Speaker, I seek leave to speak in response to the min­is­terial statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the min­is­terial statement? [Agreed]

Ms. Lamoureux: I'm glad to rise today to speak to Bangladesh In­de­pen­dence Day.

The Bangladesh community here in Manitoba has been phenomenal to work with. I know I have been to quite a few events over the years, one most recently with the minister who brought forward this statement where we had the opportunity to learn more about building up trade relationships with Bangladesh.

      Madam Speaker, it is important to provide a little bit of background on the independence of Bangladesh and how the partition of India, back in August of 1947, was when Pakistan gained independence from Britain and therefore became separated from India.

      Back at this time, Bangladesh was referred to as East Bengal, and then East Pakistan, and it was in 1970, after their general elections, Pakistani military ruler refused to hand over power to the major win­ning party, Awami League leader, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, and, after that, East Pakistan began demand­ing independence.

      During this time, Madam Speaker, the govern­ment was arresting Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, army personnel, and on March 25, 1971, Operation Searchlight was declared by the Pakistan Army and this created a military operation that was essentially Bengali genocide, leading to approximately 3 million Bengalis being killed during the liberation war–

* (13:40)

Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. [interjection]

      The member has requested leave to complete her statement. Is there leave? [Agreed]

Ms. Lamoureux: It was the following morning, March 26th, that the independence of East Pakistan from West Pakistan was declared by Major Zia, who later on became president and prominent leader in 1979.

      Madam Speaker, independence didn't just auto­matically begin here. Unfortunately, for nine months to follow, there was a war raging between both regions where, ultimately, many more people died. This war became known as the Bangladesh War of Independence and, finally, came to an end on December 16th, 1971.

      Madam Speaker, knowing this history is why we  recognize and celebrate the independence of Bangladesh. It is why in different parts of the world, there are celebrations demonstrated through parades, fairs and many different festivities. People can also celebrate from the comforts of their own homes by streaming events and posting on social media.

      Those few words, I want to thank the minister for bringing forward this statement.

      Thank you.

Members' Statements

Robert T. Kristjanson

Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I rise today, on World Water Day, to honour a constituent who has steadfastly brought atten­tion to the health of our Manitoba lakes.

      Robert T. Kristjanson is a lifelong resident in my constituency of Interlake-Gimli. His family has lived on the shores and fished Lake Winnipeg since 1890: over 130 years, Madam Speaker. Robert T. has been a commercial fisher for over 70 years and passed along the family business to his son and two grandsons. He also served with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary for 41 years.

      Robert T. has spent his life on Lake Winnipeg, and the lake that he loves and respects. He has fre­quently said: Lake Winnipeg is the jewel of Manitoba. Let's look after it.

      This passion for the lake has led him to become a strong and vocal advocate over the years, 'tiyessly' engaging Manitobans to do their part to clean up the pollution that goes into our waterways. He has made it his personal mission to increase public awareness and–of the ongoing algae and zebra mussel issues.

      Robert T. led the implementation of the Canadian Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries and has a distinguished record of service to a variety of com­munity organizations. Robert T. and his family con­tinue to bring attention to our lakes and economy through a television show that showcases commercial ice fishing in Manitoba. Ice Vikings has been broad­cast in 44 countries around the world.

      Madam Speaker, I commend Robert T. for his lifetime contribution to ensure the ongoing health of Manitoba lakes and the industries those lakes support.

      I would encourage all Manitobans to follow the advice of Mr. Kristjanson in helping preserve our lakes for generations to come.

Amy Jackson

Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): It is my great pleasure today to highlight the accomplishments of entrepreneur Amy Jackson from Opaskwayak Cree Nation.

      While pursuing a master's degree in Native studies at the University of Manitoba last year, Amy, like so many others, found herself increasingly iso­lated and depressed while the COVID pandemic was raging. As a way to cope, she began to design stickers through an app on her computer, with the simple goal of balancing out the many depressing things in this world with humour and humanity. Soon after, her busi­ness, Native Love Notes, was born.

      What started as an outlet for Amy turned into a business with a intergenerational–with a international following and a bricks-and-mortar store in the works. The company's merchandise includes not only stickers but also stationery, buttons, jewellery, phone acces­sories, prints, clothing and home wares. The goods are plastered with phrases such as Ever Sick, Live Laugh Skoden and phrases such as Go Smudge Yourself.

      But other designs tackle much more serious issues. They denounce racism, the Indian Act, the col­onizer mindset. Or, like the sticker says, Inter­generational trauma ends with me, they show a desire to make the world a better place.

      By now, Native Love Notes has sent merchandise to most European countries, Australia, New Zealand, South America and, of course, all across North America and even Hawaii and the Polynesian islands. Amy and her four staff members are looking forward to opening a Native Love Notes store on May 7th at 1116 Portage Ave.

      Despite the success, Amy has no doubt she'll return to university to finish her master's, then a doctorate in history. Her mom said–her mom always told her she was the most determined person she ever met, so Amy says, why not determine to do it all?

      Please join me in congratulating Amy for her accomplishments and to wish her all the best in all of her future endeavours.

      Ekosi.

John Hendrickson

Mr. Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): I rise today to congratulate the hard-working committee and vol­unteers who worked so hard to make this years 75th annual trappers' festival and championship sled dog races in The Pas such a success, and I want to focus on recognizing an individual who has truly earned the name of King Trapper: John Hendrickson.

      This year, I had the opportunity to join seven of my colleagues to this great festival.

      John began his quest in 1993 entering the Junior King Trapper event where he went on to win two junior titles and, over the years, 11 senior King Trapper titles. John displayed his talents in partici­pating in 21 out of 22 events, like pole climbing, moose calling, axe throwing, flour packing and tea boiling, to name a few.

      His interest in King Trapper was generated in school where they ran mini-events. John said as a child his role model was a gentleman named Walter Koshel, and he wanted to follow his footsteps as King Trapper.

      In 2006, John won his first King Trapper title. He also attributes his success to Grandpa Mike, who always took him fishing and exploring the outdoors. John said his fellow competitors were like a family and encouraged each other, and that was the spirit of the competition.

      Working hard at events that are difficult like pole climbing and the gruelling nine-mile snowshoe race is key to success, as this is where titles are won or lost. John also came second this year at the Cross Lake iron trappers event.

      Last year, John took a leave of absence as he is busy pursuing his career in the bachelor of nursing program at UCN.

      When I asked John about his future aspirations, his reply was: to graduate from my chosen career where I can help people, and to work in the off-season getting ready for the 2023 King Trapper event. This  builds character and is a celebration of coming together to celebrate tradition and heritage, and I am proud to be a part of.

      Con­gratu­la­tions, John, good luck in 2023, and we will be cheering you on.

Mennonite Central Committee

Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): All Manitobans have been shocked and saddened by the images and stories coming out of Ukraine over the last four weeks. The devastation is almost incomprehensible, and our hearts go out to the people suffering there. For the tens of thousands of Mennonites in our province who trace their heritage back to Ukraine, this horror feels especially real.

      While the conflict has meant–has left many feeling powerless, organizations like the Mennonite Central Com­mit­tee have continued to work to support those in need.

      For over 100 years, the MCC has been on the ground providing support for the people of the Ukraine directly. Although the current conflict has forced MCC staff out, many partner organizations remain, helping internally displaced people even as they themselves flee the violence.

      Simple but important local relief efforts fill in the gaps and complement larger relief efforts, including providing food, distributing clothing and blankets and  buying medicine to support those who are unable to flee. Local churches are offering housing and sanctuary, and the Mennonite Family Centre con­tinues to provide programs for seniors and children living with special needs in Zaporizhzhia, which finds itself on the front lines of the conflict.

      Here in Manitoba, the MCC Thrift Shop in Portage held a fundraiser that raised thousands to assist. In Steinbach, The Mennonite Heritage Village held a candlelight vigil to show solidarity and peace. And relief kits continue to be prepared locally and money collected by MCC in Manitoba is still being able to be delivered to those on the ground.

      While the work MCC is doing currently is emergency-based relief, they have begun to think about ways to support Ukraine long term, including psycho-social and trauma support, temporary and emergency housing and rebuilding projects.

      MCC also wants to remind us that this is just one of many conflicts in our world, whether it be in Ethiopia, DR Congo or Columbia, and just one of the many places that MCC is working to support people impacted by conflict.

      In the shadow of a war that involves world powers, the work of the Mennonite community is relatively modest. But for Mennonites from Manitoba, it is one small but important way that we can all work for peace.

      Slava Ukraini. [Glory to Ukraine.]

* (13:50)

Tyndall Com­mu­nity Market

Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Tyndall Park continues to grow in many ways, one of which is by having our very own community market.

      This market is organized by Around the World in  Winnipeg, in collaboration with Tyndall Park Community Centre, and it is anticipated to take place every weekend from spring 'til fall.

      Last year, in 2021, there was a very successful track‑the‑flavour‑truck initiative led by Around the World in Winnipeg working with local food trucks and Tyndall Park Community Centre where $2,500 were raised and donated to Harvest Manitoba.

      Now, Madam Speaker, the market is special in many ways. It contributes to our diversity and vi­brancy in Tyndall Park by showcasing local vendors and local talent.

      It is open to everyone and has vendors raging–ranging from food, to crafters, to people who make their own jams and preserves, to farmers and artists.

      The market is also seeking applicants, so if you are a local to Tyndall Park and surrounding areas, and have a product, service or skill you are interested in showcasing or selling at the market, please email tyndallcommunitymarket@gmail.com and if you are a youth entrepreneur, there are some designated free spots with the goal of building future entrepreneurs and leaders in our community.

      Madam Speaker, the goal is to run a successful com­munity market, but, as with any new initiative, groups need help.

      That is why I am asking my MLA colleagues, but, even more so, I am calling on those who live in Tyndall Park to come on out to enjoy the market. The first date will be May 7th, and it will run on Saturdays from 4:00 to 9:00 and Sundays 3:00 to 8:00.

      Lastly, Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate and thank both Lyn and Lou Alarkon, the co‑founders of Tyndall Community Market, for caring the way they do in bringing our community together. I can't wait to attend.

      Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Oral Questions

Surgical and Diag­nos­tic Services
Timeline to Clear Backlog

Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): The wait for surgeries and im­por­tant diag­nos­tic tests continues to grow. Madam Speaker, 6,000 more people are waiting in pain, waiting with uncertainty, since last count. That brings us close to 170,000 Manitobans who are now waiting while this gov­ern­ment refuses to act.

      That's right, Madam Speaker, their plan to do noth­ing to solve the problem simply isn't working. The wait‑lists are growing. More people than ever before are waiting in pain.  

      Will the Premier stand up today and announce a date by which the surgery and diag­nos­tic test backlog will be cleared?

Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): I want to thank our Diag­nos­tic and Surgical Recovery Task Force for the in­cred­ible work that they're doing, and we look forward to further updates from them moving for­ward, Madam Speaker.

      What I will say: when they did update Manitobans most recently, we had CT scans that were down–the wait-list reduction of two-hundred–2,252; ultrasounds–wait-list reduction of 3,931; MRIs–a reduction of 2,214.

      Madam Speaker, we are making progress. There's more work to do. We look forward to the update from the task force.

Madam Speaker: The hon­our­able Leader of the Official Op­posi­tion, on a sup­ple­mentary question.

Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the waits for MRIs and CT scans are increasing. The number of people waiting for a surgery is skyrocketing. This gov­ern­ment can't even keep a simple promise to hold an update to deliver news to the people of Manitoba.

      Madam Speaker, behind every one of these figures is a person waiting in pain. When we talk about 167-almost-170 thousand Manitobans waiting, these are not abstractions. These are people that we know in the com­mu­nity. These are loved ones. These are people who are suffering right now while all this gov­ern­ment does is stand and make excuses and try to torque the facts.

      Will the Premier simply change the page, stand up today, and announce a date by which to clear the backlog?

Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, the only one who's torqueing the facts is the Leader of the Op­posi­tion.

      I just stated, in this Chamber, Madam Speaker, CT scans–according to our Diag­nos­tic–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Stefanson: –and Surgical Recovery Task Force in their latest post on their website and their update, CT scans–an im­prove­ment of 12 per cent; ultra­sounds–an im­prove­ment of 16 per cent; MRIs–an im­prove­ment of 13 per cent.

      We recog­nize there's more work to do. We thank the task force for the work they're doing.

      We will ensure that all Manitobans get the sur­gical and diag­nos­tic procedures that they need when they need them, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary.

Mr. Kinew: You know, Madam Speaker, we listen to the doctors. And what the doctors said today is that the wait-lists are increasing. More than–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Kinew: –6,000 people more are waiting. That's close to–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Kinew: –170,000 Manitobans waiting in pain. And no, we don't listen to the gov­ern­ment when it comes to that–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Kinew: –167,000 Manitobans waiting in pain. We listen to the doctors.

      We know that the Premier and the failed former ministers of Health always like to attack doctors. But how did that work out for them? Not super well, Madam Speaker.

      And now we're talking about–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Kinew: –Manitobans waiting in pain.

      Will the PCs stop heckling long enough to stand in their places today and announce a date by which to clear the surgical and back–diag­nos­tic backlog?

Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, again, we are listening to doctors.

      And certainly, there are doctors who are on our Diag­nos­tic and Surgical Recovery Task Force who have been tasked with this very issue of eliminating the surgical and diag­nos­tic backlogs, Madam Speaker.

      So what I will say is, the Leader of the Opposition–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Stefanson: –while he wants to continue to put false infor­ma­tion on the record, Madam Speaker, we will continue to put the facts on the record.

      The facts are that in areas of–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Stefanson: –CT scans, ultrasounds and MRIs, we are making headway, Madam Speaker. [interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Stefanson: We recog­nize there's more work to be done. We thank the task force for the work that they are doing. We will continue to take the advice of the pro­fes­sionals when it comes to the elimination of the surgical and diag­nos­tic backlogs–not from the Leader of the Op­posi­tion, not from the members opposite that are chirping from their seats, Madam Speaker.

      We will continue to take the advice of the pro­fes­sionals. [interjection]

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Order.

      Somebody not looking to see that the Speaker is standing and when the Speaker's standing, I'm expecting that there's going to be respect in the room for the role of the Speaker, and that is some­thing I'm asking all of you to please co-operate with.

      The hon­our­able Leader of the Official Op­posi­tion, on a new question.

WPS Headquarters Construction
Request to Call Public Inquiry

Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): A Manitoba court has ruled that the former CAO of the City of Winnipeg accepted a bribe as part of the police headquarters construction.

      That is what we know so far. Manitobans deserve to know more.

      Now, the mayor of Winnipeg has said that calling an inquiry is in the city's best interest. The current council of the City of Winnipeg is in agree­ment on that point.

      Now, we could get more infor­ma­tion. We could get more answers on the record.

      This would help uncover just 'whent'–just what went wrong with this police headquarters deal.

      Will the Premier listen to the mayor of Winnipeg? Will she call an inquiry into the construction of the police headquarters?

Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Op­posi­tion knows that this matter continues to remain before the courts, and we will watch what comes out of that and what ends up being on the record as a result of those court pro­ceedings.

* (14:00)

      The–Mayor Bowman absolutely knows that the city has–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Stefanson: –the ability to in­vesti­gate these types of matters, Madam Speaker. He has the ability. They have the–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Stefanson: –ability to question people under oath.

      If the mayor wants to go in that direction, he has the powers to do so. [interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

      The hon­our­able Leader of the Official Op­posi­tion, on a sup­ple­mentary question.

Mr. Kinew: You know, Madam Speaker, the PCs and the Premier know full well that civil action does not prevent them from calling an inquiry–no objection to that statement of fact.

      We also know that the mayor of the City of Winnipeg wants there to be an inquiry. We know that the current council of Winnipeg wants there to be an inquiry.

      We also know that the member for Kirkfield Park (Mr. Fielding) was a member of council at the time that this happened and he was chair of the finance com­mit­tee. There's a reasonable apprehension of bias there. It means that, at the very least, the member for Kirkfield Park should recuse himself from any decisions or con­ver­sa­tions about calling an inquiry.

      Will the Premier assure this House that the member for Kirkfield Park will recuse himself from all discussions about an inquiry into the police headquarters? [interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Op­posi­tion continues with his smear campaign.

      We will continue to do what Manitobans have asked us to do, Madam Speaker. They have asked us to make life more affordable for Manitobans: we are continuing to do that. They've asked us to strengthen health care: we will continue to do so. They've asked us for economic recovery and growth: we will con­tinue to provide a better, brighter future for all Manitobans.

      While they are in the gutter–in gutter politics, Madam Speaker, we will continue to work on behalf of Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: The hon­our­able Leader of the Official Op­posi­tion, on a final sup­ple­mentary.

Mr. Kinew: It should be very easy for the Premier to assure Manitobans that the member for Kirkfield Park will recuse himself from a matter that took place while he was chair of the City finance com­mit­tee. The fact that she does not is very telling.

      Yesterday, we also learned that the–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Kinew: –former mayor of Winnipeg, Sam Katz, donated to the Premier's leadership campaign. We know that Mr. Katz oversaw the building of the police headquarters, and so far, the Premier has refused to call an inquiry into that scandal.

      The Premier should listen to the calls of the mayor of–City of Winnipeg.

      Will the Premier take action and call an inquiry today?

Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I've stated already that this matter remains before the courts. I believe the member opposite is aware of that. We need to allow the process to go forward. We will continue to follow what the findings are there.

      Mayor Bowman knows that he has the ability now–the City has the ability to in­vesti­gate these types of matters. He has the ability to question people under oath. If he wants to go down that route, Madam Speaker, he's welcome to do so. He has the powers to do so.

WPS Headquarters Construction
Request to Call Public Inquiry

Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): The list of wealthy insiders who donated to the Premier's (Mrs. Stefanson) campaign was finally released yesterday, only a day before the Fort Whyte by‑election.

      Sam Katz is on the list. We've been calling for an inquiry into the scandal that he oversaw as mayor. I hope his donation hasn't influenced the Premier's refusal to call an inquiry. She should ignore the money–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Ms. Fontaine: –Madam Speaker, and do what's right for Manitobans.

      Will she get up today and call an inquiry into the scandal it–the City?

Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Of course, once again, the sort of mudslinging from the op­posi­tion is trying to obscure the truth.

      And the truth is, as stated by Derek Olson, a senior litigator and a former com­mis­sion councillor for the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry–an inquiry that was called into the handling of the family services system when the NDP were in gov­ern­ment–said that there certainly is a preference to see civil proceedings con­cluded before an inquiry is held to avoid possible inconsistencies or conflicting results.

      That's from a com­mis­sioner from the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. I invite the member to look it up, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question.

PC Party Leadership Campaign
Premier's Financial Contribution

Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Yesterday, we  found out who bankrolled the Premier's (Mrs. Stefanson) election campaign. It wasn't the Premier. She could even–couldn't even spare a dollar from her $31 million to donate to her own campaign. Instead, she asked all of her wealthy friends to do so.

      Ask a busi­ness person what they think of a CEO who doesn't buy stock in their own company. That's not a good sign, Madam Speaker.

      Will the Premier tell the House why she didn't donate to her own campaign?

Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I have no idea what the member is talking about and I'm only com­forted by the fact that I don't think she has any idea what she's talking about either.

      It is true, Madam Speaker, I believe that many, many Manitobans wanted to support this Premier in her role. And we can see why, because she's a dedi­cated person, given her entire life to–much of her life to civil service, wanted to ensure that her skills were brought to bear to benefit the people of Manitoba, and many, many people wanted to support her along the way in doing that.

      If the NDP are jealous because they can't raise money, if they're upset that they can't raise money, if they're upset because they can't win a by-election–well, we'll see what happens tonight, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary.

Refunding of Campaign Donations

Ms. Fontaine: The Premier ranks last across all of Canada and, on top of her poor ranking, her performance over the last five months, I'm sure, has her donors very worried: failing on health care, leaving Manitobans to take care of them­selves and making out-of-touch remarks.

      And the Premier wants us to believe that she only found out about the donors list when she sent her thank-you cards. We know that's not true, Madam Speaker. They're her wealthy friends who, I'm sure, are having buyer's remorse right now.

      Will the Premier be refunding any of the dona­tions she received during the leadership campaign?

Mr. Goertzen: Yes, Madam Speaker, we are 'guiltry' of having hundreds of people who want to donate to support the Premier. We are guilty of having thou­sands of people who want to donate to support the PC Party of Manitoba. Those are all true things.

      Of course, the NDP tried, for many years, to try to have the vote tax because they couldn't raise any money for their own party, Madam Speaker, so they had to bring in that scheme to try to get money into their coffers.

      I know the member opposite is very negative about a lot of things, Madam Speaker. We have an economy that's growing. We have among the lowest un­em­ploy­ment in all of Canada. It's spring in Manitoba. The restrictions are lifting. The Jets, well, they probably are going to do better in the next 20 days, and the Bombers are going to repeat in the Grey Cup.

      There's lots to celebrate in Manitoba today and in the future, especially under this Premier, Madam Speaker.

Adults with Intellectual Disabilities
Com­mu­nity Support Worker Wages

Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, support workers who support adults with intellectual and developmental dis­abil­ities are facing challenges like never before. They've taken huge risks during this pandemic, but their wages are not keeping up. There is a tre­men­dous labour shortage in this field, which needs to change.

      Will the minister ensure that these skilled pro­fes­sionals can afford to keep working in these very im­por­tant jobs?

Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): I'm very pleased that the member asked this question because it gives me an op­por­tun­ity to rise in this House and thank the hundreds of dedi­cated workers who came to work each and every day through­out the pandemic to care for nearly 7,000 Manitobans with intellectual dis­abil­ities.

* (14:10)

      We certainly salute them. We applaud their efforts. We did provide support through the pandemic staffing support program. We are in con­ver­sa­tions in terms of how we can make their work environ­ment sus­tain­able so that we can have a strong recruitment-retention aspect to enhancing their work sector.

      And I'll be more than happy to give updates to this House in days to come.

      Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question.

Ms. Naylor: Madam Speaker, wages for those who support adults with intellectual and developmental dis­abil­ities are falling far behind. These workers are dedi­cated and they are committed and they provide dignified care.

      But many of them are living in poverty, and that is not right. You can actually get paid more at a starting job at Tim Hortons than at a starting job in some of the houses in this province taking care of people with dis­abil­ities.

      We need a gov­ern­ment prepared to make a dif­ference.

      Will the minister change direction and start paying these workers what they deserve?

Ms. Squires: Well, I'd like to thank the member for pointing out that, under the NDP gov­ern­ment, CLDS workers received zero increase in 17 years.

      Our gov­ern­ment is going to correct that. Our gov­ern­ment is going to correct the wrong path that the NDP started down by ignoring these workers, and we are going to be helping build a sus­tain­able workforce and provi­ding them with the wages that they deserve.

      I'd also like to take this op­por­tun­ity–that, also under the NDP, they did absolutely nothing to support children with dis­abil­ities. That is why we brought for­ward an $8-million bridge program to help children with intellectual and developmental dis­abil­ities get the support that they need.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary.

Ms. Naylor: Madam Speaker, the staffing situation for com­mu­nity support workers is dire. Non-profits are not able to provide competitive wages, and inflation is now 5.7 per cent and staff turnover has gotten worse.

      Some clients have to have two, three, four hundred workers in their lifetime or more, and this is really bad for the people who need support.

      This gov­ern­ment has had six years to make a difference on this file. People's wages have been frozen. We need a gov­ern­ment prepared to address this problem.

      Will the minister provide new funding for com­mu­nity support pro­fes­sionals today?

Ms. Squires: Madam Speaker, our gov­ern­ment has been investing more in our budget each year to support people with dis­abil­ities, more than the NDP ever did. And we will be provi­ding stability and sus­tain­ability initiatives to ensure that we have a strong, stable workforce for people living with developmental dis­abil­ities.

      This was work that was neglected for 17 years under the NDP gov­ern­ment, where people slid deeper into poverty. We are going to correct that record. We are going to make invest­ments–[interjection]–we're going to continue making that–

Madam Speaker: Order.

Ms. Squires: –invest­ments so that people living with dis­abil­ities can have a dignified life in the province of Manitoba.

Em­ploy­ment and Income Assist­ance Recipients
Early Canada Pension Plan Claims

Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): When a person claims CPP early at the age of 60, it results in a large reduction to the money they receive for the rest of their lives. When I raised a concern last week about the PC government doing just that, the minister just deflected and refused to answer the question.

      People like Bertrand Murdoch are being forced to take CPP early against their will; and if they don't, they're being cut off of EIA. The result: Mr. Murdoch is now being–is now going to be evicted at the end of the month because he was kicked off EIA dis­abil­ity in January for refusing to take CPP early.

      Will the minister help Mr. Murdoch and imme­diately stop this practice of forcing EIA recipients to claim CPP early?

Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): Well, I'd like to just point out for the member that we have invested nearly 25 per cent more in EIA since we form­ed office than the NDP gov­ern­ment ever did. We're nearly $500 million up from their $383 million.

      In regards to her con­stit­uent, I can assure the member that the minute that she had brought that infor­ma­tion to my attention, instead of debating it on the floor of the Legislature, I went to my de­part­ment and I asked my de­part­ment to review the case and to  get in touch with her con­stit­uent, which I have been assured that the de­part­ment is working very closely with her con­stit­uent. In fact, calls were made as late as yesterday afternoon, I'm told, and if there's more work to be done, we will certainly be doing that personalized case work, not on the floor of the Legislature but in the de­part­ment where it belongs.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question.

Mrs. Smith: Many letters were sent to that minister, and she knows it. Only because it was brought to the floor has she now begun to take notice of it.

      Today, a court hearing is begin­ning against this gov­ern­ment's wrongful practice of clawing back CPP benefits to pay back prov­incial dis­abil­ity assist­ance, leaving people without enough money to meet their basic needs.

      Two years ago, the Manitoba Court of Appeal found it illegal for this–for the gov­ern­ment to force people on dis­abil­ity EIA to claim CPP early.

      Madam Speaker, clawing back and forcing people off social assist­ance is wrong for everyone, dis­abil­ity or not. The minister has a chance to right the wrong today.

      Will she do the right thing and stop this practice of forcing EIA recipients to claim CPP and stop forcing Mr. Murdoch from claiming CPP, as well–as she well knows that call was saying–

Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

Ms. Squires: I would like to point out that our gov­ern­ment has exempted nearly 50 different benefit programs from the EIA regula­tions so that people can keep certain benefits as well as their EIA benefits.

      I would also like to point out for the member that we have invested sig­ni­fi­cantly more in our EIA program–more than 25 per cent increase since when they were in gov­ern­ment. We've also quadrupled the Rent Assist program so that we've got more people receiving more benefits.

      In regards to her con­stit­uent, I can assure the House that we have made the ap­pro­priate calls and we are handling casework where it belongs: in the de­part­ment, not on the floor of the Manitoba Legislature.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary.

Mrs. Smith: I spoke to Mr. Murdoch, and he is still being forced to take CPP or not get his EIA benefits reinstated. So, that minister knows that.

      She's putting more people in poverty because they're being stretched thin and thinner because this gov­ern­ment is forcing them to take CPP early, which means later in their life, they're getting less.

      Claiming CPP means that people are getting a third less. It's forcing more people into poverty now and will have greater effects long term. They're stretched thin and having trouble paying basic needs like hydro, which this gov­ern­ment has continually raised year after year. It's wrong, and the minister knows it, and will she rectify this today?

      Will she stop this practice of forcing EIA re­cipients to claim CPP early, including Mr. Murdoch?

Ms. Squires: What was wrong was kicking 26 per cent of all Manitobans off of the Manitoba Housing wait-list, and that member knows it. But that was exactly what her gov­ern­ment did. They took people off of the wait-list.

      What our gov­ern­ment is doing is investing more to reduce poverty in the province of Manitoba, in­cluding exempting more than 50 other benefits from the EIA regula­tions, including CPP in certain circum­stances.

      So, we are making life more affordable, we're raising more people out of poverty than ever before. That is why we invested 25 per cent more in our EIA budget that the NDP ever did.

      Madam Speaker, we know we have a long way to go. We have more people to lift up out of poverty. We know that the last two years has been a challenging time for people in poverty. We're not done the work, but we're going to continue it.

Parents Grieving Miscarriage or Stillbirth
Request to Support Paid Leave

Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): The exper­ience of a miscarriage or a stillbirth can be in­cred­ibly emotional and physic­ally traumatizing for the parents. It is crucial that folks are able to access paid time to care for them­selves and take time to grieve and heal.

      Manitoba's em­ploy­ment standards currently fall short in provi­ding the necessary time off. That is why I intro­duced Bill 219 for a second time today, to en­sure all grieving parents have access to a separate and fully funded paid leave.

      Will the minister legis­late paid leave for parents grieving a miscarriage or stillbirth?

      Ekosi.

* (14:20)

Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services): Thank you for the question from the member opposite.

      Interested in reading the bill that she intro­duced, and we're looking forward to debating it.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas-Kameesak, on a supplementary question.

Ms. Lathlin: During the already traumatic and stress­ful ex­per­ience of a miscarriage or stillbirth, parents should not have to stress about their next paycheque.

      In Manitoba, there is no full-rate–full wage re­place­ment available for parents who are grieving a miscarriage or a stillbirth. If a pregnant person miscarries, they can apply for EI at a fraction of their normal wage.

      This is not a meaningful support for people who shouldn't have to stress about finances during an already devastating time.

      Will the minister support paid leave for parents grieving a miscarriage or a stillbirth?

Mr. Helwer: Thank you to the member opposite for the ad­di­tional infor­ma­tion. I look forward to hearing more infor­ma­tion as the bill is debated.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas-Kameesak, on a final supplementary.

Ms. Lathlin: Manitoba has the unique op­por­tun­ity to lead with compassion on this issue by legislating a paid leave for parents grieving a miscarriage or a stillbirth. There is no prov­incial juris­dic­tion that pro­vides a full wage re­place­ment for grieving parents in Canada. Manitoba can be a first.

      Will this gov­ern­ment do what is right and legis­late paid leave for Manitobans grieving a miscarriage or a stillbirth? Yes, or no?

      Ekosi.

Mr. Helwer: There are several programs available through Finance for EIA or for mental health that are available. We're reviewing all those programs, and we're listening to the member opposite to see how we can best respond to this.

      I know there are several programs available, Madam Speaker.

Manitoba's Pandemic Response
PPE Procurement Spending

Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): We have to ask whether the PCs' handling of pandemic procurement has been as bad as the rest of their pandemic prepared­ness and response.

      As these tables that I table–or, these docu­ments that I table show, in 2020 this gov­ern­ment bought $19 million US, or $26.6 million Canadian, of masks that didn't fit and couldn't be used; $1.2 million in unusable, unapproved hand sanitizer made with fuel ethanol; a non-refundable down payment of $7.2 million to Providence Therapeutics for a vaccine booster that will never be delivered.

      Just three 'procrement' deals cost the public purse $35 million with nothing to show for it.

      Can the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) explain how this happened under the PC gov­ern­ment?

Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services): Well, perhaps the member opposite was not present during the 'pandagma'. I'm not sure what he was doing. I know that our de­part­ment was responding to the public health crisis.

      And we did every­thing we could to make sure that Health was supported through­out that. We found masks through­out the world that we could use in times of need when we couldn't buy N95 masks anywhere, Madam Speaker. We have production in Manitoba now producing those masks so we can make sure that they're here for any future situations like this. And the Manitoba Emergency Response Warehouse has been set up.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question.

Cost of Expired Face Masks

Mr. Lamont: We know the PC gov­ern­ment spend $35 million with nothing to show for it in just three procurement deals.

      The hand sanitizer wasn't safe and was never supposed to be sold, according to Health Canada. The vaccine money is gone. And there were millions of masks that couldn't be used. For months after they were purchased, people in health care and early-child­hood edu­ca­tion were using masks from the last H1N1 pandemic a decade ago.

      What happened to the $26.6 million worth of masks that this gov­ern­ment bought and couldn't be used?

Mr. Helwer: Well, we did indeed place a $35 million order with the federal government, the first province to do so, when they offered supplies of PPE for the pandemic. They couldn't fulfill the order, Madam Speaker. We had to go through­out the world to find supplies for our health-care system.

      We bought hand sanitizer that was approved by Health Canada, and then they rescinded that approval, Madam Speaker. That was not used.

      So, Madam Speaker, we worked closely with all of our federal and prov­incial counterparts to make sure that we could keep Manitobans safe.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary.

Ukrainian Refugees
Health-Care Services

Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): There are literally thousands of people fleeing from Ukraine to Canada, many of which will be coming to Manitoba. There have been extreme changes to our health‑care system over the last five years, and the issues of health care, both physical and mental, are on the minds of everyone, especially those coming from Ukraine.

      Will the province commit to allowing full and free access to those coming from Ukraine and ensure proper invest­ments are made to ensure timely health-care services for everyone?

Hon. Jon Reyes (Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration): Manitoba gov­ern­ment's support has been imme­diate, strong and unwavering. We've mobilized all of gov­ern­ment's–weeks–to pre­pare for large-scale arrivals, to deliver a full range of prov­incial settlement supports for housing, health and mental-health care, K‑to‑12 edu­ca­tion, child care, English language services, social assist­ance, job place­ments. Also $650,000 in humanitarian aid to Ukrainian congress and the Canadian Ukraine founda­tion thus far.

      We have pledged to welcome as many Ukrainians seeking haven as soon as the Gov­ern­ment of Canada determines how many are coming.

      Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Cosmetic Pesticide Use
Changes to Legislation

Mr. Shannon Martin (McPhillips): Madam Speaker, stake­holders like Manitoba munici­palities have urged our gov­ern­ment to take science-based action when it comes to the use of pesticides in Manitoba, as well as consistency with federal agencies.

      Can the minister elaborate on Bill 22 and what the stake­holders are saying about science-based use of pesticides?

Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Environment, Climate and Parks): I'd like to thank the member for McPhillips for that question.

      Last week, I was proud to intro­duce Bill 22, which will amend The Environ­ment Act to allow the use of Health Canada federally approved cosmetic pesticides through­out Manitoba.

      Unlike the members opposite, Madam Speaker, our gov­ern­ment stands on the side of science. The current restrictions on cosmetic pesticides, which were intro­duced by the former NDP gov­ern­ment, were based on ideology and ideology alone. These products go through a rigorous testing process and are continually reviewed to ensure they are safe.

      Last week, following the intro­duction–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Wharton: –of Bill 22 I was pleased to be joined by Kam Blight, President of AMM. and David Hinton, the Manitoba Nursery Landscape Association, which indicated, Madam Speaker–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Wharton: –they've seen dramatically higher costs and decreased effectiveness associated with them.

Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

Post-Secondary Education
Funding Concerns

Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): Madam Speaker, inflation is 5.7 per cent. For the coming school year, that means cuts to the Uni­ver­sity of Manitoba. This prov­incial funding puts U of M 5 per cent behind the rate of inflation. Virtually all programs at the uni­ver­sity saw no new resources what­so­ever.

      Again, inflation is 5.7 per cent. The approach this gov­ern­ment has is doing lasting damage to our post-secondary in­sti­tutions.

      As schools develop their budgets, will the minis­ter guarantee no cuts, including inflation, at post-secondary in­sti­tutions for this coming school year?

Hon. Jon Reyes (Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration): Madam Speaker, our gov­ern­ment is committed to work col­lab­o­ratively with our post-secondary partners and students to provide the best quality of post-secondary edu­ca­tion in Manitoba while keeping the tuition one of the lowest in Western Canada.

      We will continue to work with partners to deliver on our commit­ment.

      Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon­our­able member for St. Vital, on a sup­ple­mentary question.

Mr. Moses: Funding below the rate of inflation means cuts. And since 2016, the PC gov­ern­ment has cut operating funding for many post-secondary in­sti­tutions by millions of–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Moses: –dollars. Conservative cuts hurt.

      Inflation is 5.7 per cent. The situation for next year is worse. This is simply unacceptable.

      Will the minister reverse course and commit to no cuts at post-secondary in­sti­tutions for this coming school year?

Mr. Reyes: Madam Speaker, as I've mentioned before, our gov­ern­ment continues to invest over $1 billion every year in post-secondary edu­ca­tion.

      This year's funding an­nounce­ment includes a $10.3-million boost in ongoing grants to support the nursing seat expansion and $350,000 for the permanent–permanent–expansion of Université de Saint-Boniface bachelor of edu­ca­tion program.

* (14:30)

      We will continue making key invest­ments to provide world-class post-secondary edu­ca­tion here in Manitoba.

      Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon­our­able member for St. Vital, on a final sup­ple­mentary.

Mr. Moses: Madam Speaker, this gov­ern­ment's cuts and their priorities are simply out of line with the rest of Manitobans'. Conservative cuts hurt.

      Manitobans want and deserve a gov­ern­ment that prioritizes quality and affordable edu­ca­tion. Again, inflation is running at 5.7 per cent. The minister thinks he can solve it by–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Moses: –jacking up tuition and charging some students even more than others. And that's not right.

      We need real invest­ment in edu­ca­tion, in colleges and in uni­ver­sities.

      Will the minister reverse course and commit to no cuts to colleges and uni­ver­sities in this coming school year?

Mr. Reyes: Yesterday, I had a great op­por­tun­ity to tour the engineering building at the Uni­ver­sity of Manitoba, and had a meeting with the president and board chair of the Uni­ver­sity of Manitoba. I was very pleased to hear their plans and their commit­ment to provide world-class edu­ca­tion to our students in our province.

      Madam Speaker, our gov­ern­ment will continue to support our post-secondary partners who strive; unlike the NDP, who took the ideological approach to the post-secondary edu­ca­tion in Manitoba.

      Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Manitoba Public Insurance
Diversion of Revenue

Mr. Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): This gov­ern­ment's inter­ference costs all of us more. Last year, $60 million was transferred out of MPI and into a–core gov­ern­ment operations. They plan to take another $53 million this month.

      Ratepayers should be enjoying an ad­di­tional 10 per cent decrease for their insurance. Instead, this PC gov­ern­ment took it away.

      Will the minister reverse the decision and give the money to the Manitobans today?

Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation): There is no question that when the former NDP gov­ern­ment moved driver's licensing into MPI, they set it up very, very badly, Madam Speaker. And that has been left for our gov­ern­ment to try to deal with it, and we continue to ensure that the resources are there, even though it was set up so badly under the NDP gov­ern­ment.

      But, of course, there is good news coming out of Manitoba Public Insurance. We were all glad to see that more than $300 million in rebates were returned to Manitobans to make life a little bit easy and a little bit more affordable for those ratepayers, Madam Speaker.

      We all shudder to think what life would be like under the NDP-Liberal coalition gov­ern­ment, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired.

Petitions

Foot-Care Services

Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

      The background of this petition is as follows:

      (1) Population of those aged 55-plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

      (2) A large percentage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment.

      (3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes.

      (4) The northern regional health author­ity, N‑R‑H‑A, previously provided essential medical foot-care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

      (5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and surrounding areas.

      (6) There's no adequate medical care available in the city and region, whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

      (7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

      (8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care expends–extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province.

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot‑care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1, 2022.

      This petition has been signed by George Braumiere [phonetic], Tracy Smith, Murray Garrioch and many other Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House.

      Further petitions?

Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

      To the Legis­lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background of this petition is as follows:

      (1) The population of those aged 55-plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

      (2) A large percentage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment.

      (3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes.

      (4) The northern regional health author­ity, the N‑R‑H‑A, previously provided essential medical foot-care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

      (5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and sur­rounding areas.

      (6) There is no adequate medical care available in the city and region, whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

      (7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

      (8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province.

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1, 2022.

      This petition has been signed by Sue O'Brien, Christine Reid, Steven McKay and many, many other Manitobans.

Abortion Services

Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

      The background to this petition is as follows:

      (1) Manitoba women, girls, two-spirit, genderqueer, non-binary and trans persons deserve to be safe and supported when accessing abortion services.

      (2) Limited access to effective and safe abortion services contributes to detrimental out­comes and con­se­quences for those seeking an abortion, as an esti­mated 25 million unsafe abortions occur worldwide each year.

      (3) The prov­incial gov­ern­ment's reckless health-care cuts have created inequity within the health-care system whereby access to the abortion pill, Mifegymiso, and surgical abortions are less ac­ces­si­ble for northern and rural individuals than individuals in southern Manitoba, as they face travel barriers to access the handful of non-urban health-care pro­fes­sionals who are trained to provide medical abortions.

      (4) For over five years, and over the admin­is­tra­tion of three failed Health ministers, the prov­incial government operated under the pretense that reproductive health was not the respon­si­bility of the Min­is­try of Health and seniors care and shifted the respon­si­bility to a secretariat with no policy, program or financial author­ity within the health-care system.

      (5) And for over four years, the prov­incial gov­ern­ment has refused to support bill 200, The Safe Access to Abortion Services Act, which will ensure the safety of Manitoba women, girls, two-spirit, genderqueer, non-binary and trans persons accessing abortion services, and the staff who provide such services, by esta­blish­ing buffer zones for anti-choice Manitobans around clinics.

* (14:40)

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      To urge the prov­incial gov­ern­ment to imme­diately ensure effective and safe access to abortion services for individuals, regardless of where they reside in Manitoba, and to ensure that buffer zones are imme­diately legis­lated.

      Signed by many Manitobans.

Cochlear Implant Program

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

      The background to this petition is as follows:

      People who suffer hearing loss due to aging, illness, employment or accident not only lose the ability to communicate effectively with friends, relatives or colleagues; they also can experience unemployment, social isolation and struggles with mental health.

      A cochlear implant is a life-changing electronic device that allows deaf people to receive and process sounds and speech, and also can partially restore hearing in people who have severe hearing loss and who do not benefit from conventional hearing aids. A processor behind the ear captures and processes sound signals which are transmitted to a receiver implanted into the skull that relays the information to the inner ear.

      The technology has been available since 1989 through the Central Speech and Hearing Clinic, founded in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The Surgical Hearing Implant program began implanting patients in the fall of 2011 and marked the completion of 250 cochlear implant surgeries in Manitoba in the summer of 2018. The program has implanted about 60 devices since the summer of 2018, as it is only able to implement–implant about 40 to 45 devices per year.

      There are no upfront costs to Manitoba residents who proceed with cochlear implant surgery, as Manitoba Health covers the surgical procedure, internal implant and the first external sound processor. Newfoundland and Manitoba have the highest estimated implantation costs of all provinces.

      Alberta has one of the best programs with Alberta aids for daily living, and their cost share means the patient pays only approximately $500 out of pocket. Assistive Devices Program in Ontario covers 75 per cent of the cost, up to a maximum amount of $5,444, for a cochlear implant replacement speech processor. The BC Adult Cochlear Implant Program offers subsidized replacements to aging sound pro­cessors through the Sound Processor Replacement program. This provincially funded program is avail­able to those cochlear implant recipients whose sound processors have reached six to seven years of age.

      The cochlear implant is a lifelong commitment. However, as the technology changes over time, parts and software become no longer functional or available. The cost of upgrading a cochlear implant in Manitoba of approximately $11,000 is much more expensive than in other provinces, as adult patients are responsible for the upgrade costs of their sound processor.

      In Manitoba, pediatric patients under 18 years of age are eligible for funding assistance through the Cochlear Implant Speech Processor Replacement Program, which provides up to 80 per cent of the replace­ment costs associated with a device upgrade.

      It is unreasonable that this technology is inaccessible to many citizens of Manitoba who must choose between hearing and deafness due to financial constraints because the costs of maintaining the equipment are prohibitive for low-income earners or those on a fixed income, such as old age pension or Employment and Income Assistance.

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      To urge the provincial government to provide financing for upgrades to the cochlear implant covered under medicare, or provide funding assistance through the Cochlear Implant Speech Processor Replacement Program to assist with the replacement costs associated with a device upgrade.

      Signed by Padev [phonetic] Anderson, Ken Rose, Glenn Guenther and many other Manitobans.

Diagnostic Testing Accessibility

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

      The background of this petition is as follows:

      (1) Until recently, diagnostic medical tests, including for blood and fluid samples, were available and accessible in most medical clinics.

      (2) Dynacare blood test labs have consolidated their blood and fluid testing services by closing 25 of its labs.

      (3) The provincial government has cut diag­nostic testing at many clinic sites, and residents now have to travel to different locations to get their testing done, even for a simple blood test or a urine sample.

      (4) Further travel challenges for vulnerable and elderly residents of northeast Winnipeg may result in fewer tests being done or delays in testing, with the attendant effects of increased health-care costs and poorer individual patient outcomes.

      (5) COVID‑19 emergency rules have resulted in long outdoor lineups, putting vulnerable residents at further risk in extreme weather, be it hot or cold. Moreover, these long lineups have resulted in longer wait times for services and poorer service in general.

      (6) Manitoba residents value the convenience and efficiency of the health-care system when they are able to give their samples at the time of the doctor visit.

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      To urge the provincial government to immedi­ately demand Dynacare maintain all the phlebotomy blood sample sites existing prior to the COVID‑19 public health emergency, and allow all Manitobans to get their blood and urine tests done when visiting their doctor, thereby facilitating local access to blood testing services.

      And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans.

Foot-Care Services

Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

      The background of this petition is as follows:

      (1) The population of those aged 55-plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

      (2) A large percentage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment.

      (3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes.

      (4) The northern regional health author­ity, N‑R‑H‑A, previously provided essential medical foot-care services to seniors and those living with disabilities until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

      (5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and surrounding areas.

      (6) There is no adequate medical care available in the city and region, whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

      (7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

      (8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province.

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

* (14:50)

      To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1st, 2022.

      This petition has been signed by Miranda Constant, Dana Braun and Colleen Pronteau and many other Manitobans.

      Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Eating Disorders Awareness Week

Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): To the Legis­lative Assembly of Manitoba–oh, sorry, I missed the first page.

      I wish to present the following petition to the Legis­lative Assembly.

      To the Legis­lative Assembly of Manitoba, the back­ground of this petition is as follows:

      An esti­mated 1 million people suffer from eating disorders in Canada.

      Eating disorders are serious mental illnesses affect­ing one's physical, psychological and social function and have the highest mortality rate of any mental illness.

      The dev­elop­ment and treatment of eating disorders are influenced by the social determinants of health, including food and income security, access to housing, health care and mental health supports.

      It is im­por­tant to share the diverse experiences of people with eating disorders across all ages, genders and identities, including Indigenous, Black and racialized people; queer and gender-diverse people; people with dis­abil­ities; people with chronic illness; and people with co‑occurring mental health con­di­tions or addictions.

      It is necessary to increase awareness and edu­ca­tion about the impact of those living with, or affected by, eating disorders in order to dispel dangerous stereotypes and myths about these illnesses.

      Setting aside one week each year to focus attention on eating disorders will heighten public under­standing, increase awareness of culturally relevant resources and supports for those impacted by eating disorders and encourage Manitobans to develop healthier relationships with their bodies.

      We petition the Legis­lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      To urge the prov­incial gov­ern­ment to support a declaration that the first week in February of each year be known as eating disorders awareness week.

      This has been signed by Barb Miles, Lindsey Barsdon [phonetic] and Nicole Malette and many Manitobans.

Foot-Care Services

Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

      The background to this petition is as follows:

      (1) The population of those aged 55-plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

      (2) A large percentage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment.

      (3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes.

      (4) The northern regional health author­ity, N‑R‑H‑A, previously provided essential medical foot-care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

      (5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and surrounding areas.

      (6) There is no adequate medical care available in the city and region, whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

      (7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

      (8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province.

      We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

      To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot-care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1st, 2020.

      And this petition, Madam Speaker, is signed by many Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: Grievances?

ORDERS OF THE DAY

(Continued)

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

House Business

Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): First, on House busi­ness, pursuant to rule 33(7), I'm announcing that the private member's reso­lu­tion to be considered on the next Tuesday of  private members' busi­ness will be one put for­ward   by  the hon­our­able member for McPhillips (Mr. Martin), and the title of that reso­lu­tion is Recognizing Climate Resiliency and Green Strategies in Manitoba Transpor­tation.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that, pursuant to rule 33(7), the private member's reso­lu­tion to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' busi­ness will be one put forward by the honour­able member for McPhillips. The title of the reso­lu­tion is Recog­nizing Climate Resiliency and Green Strategies in Manitoba Trans­por­tation.

Mr. Goertzen: Thank you for that an­nounce­ment, Madam Speaker.

* * *

Mr. Goertzen: Could you please call this afternoon for debate second reading on bills 26, 15, 16 and 23.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that–by the hon­our­able Gov­ern­ment House Leader that the House will consider the following bills this afternoon: second reading Bill 26, second reading Bill 15, debate on second reading of Bill 16 and second reading of Bill 23.

Second Readings

Bill 26–The Officers of the Assembly Act
(Various Acts Amended)

Madam Speaker: I will now call second reading Bill 26, The Officers of the Assembly Act (Various Acts Amended).

Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Edu­ca­tion, that Bill 26, The Officers of the Assembly Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read a second time and be referred to a com­mit­tee of this House.

      His Honour the Administrator has been advised of the bill, and I table the message.

Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the hon­our­able Minister of Justice, seconded by the hon­our­able Minister of Edu­ca­tion, that Bill 26, the officers of the Legis­lative Assembly, various acts amended, be now read a second time and be referred to a com­mit­tee of this House.

      His Honour the Administrator has been advised of the bill, and the message has been tabled.

Mr. Goertzen: It is a pleasure to speak to this bill this afternoon in the Manitoba Legislature. The focus of this bill is to address inconsistencies in the enabling legis­lation for officers of the Manitoba Legis­lative Assembly and their deputies, which can create mis­under­standing and uncertainty for members of the Legis­lative Assembly and the public in general.

Mr. Andrew Micklefield, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair

      Manitoba has eight statutory officers of the Legislative Assembly–often sometimes, mistakenly, I think, referred to as in­de­pen­dent officers, I know they prefer to be referred to as officers of the Legis­lative Assembly–that help the members of this Legis­lative Assembly comply with the rules and processes of the Assembly and monitor and assess gov­ern­ment pro­gram effectiveness and performance.

      These OLAs are respon­si­ble for upholding and pro­moting the fun­da­mental principles of demo­cracy, fairness, trans­par­ency and sound gov­ern­ance. Each officer of the Legis­lative Assembly is assigned a spe­cific mandate through a statute to oversee these principles and ensure that they are respected in the operations of the executive and the legis­lative branches of gov­ern­ment.

      The officers of the Assembly are the Advocate for Children and Youth, the Auditor General, the Chief Electoral Officer, the Clerk of the Legis­lative Assembly, the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner, the Infor­ma­tion and Privacy Adjudicator, the Ombudsman and the lobbyist 'registar.'

      These OLAs report to the Legis­lative Assembly, and their financial and staff budgets are approved by the Legis­lative Assembly Manage­ment Com­mis­sion, some­thing we refer to as LAMC. And most officers have a permanent full-time staff complement, raging–ranging from 20 to 50 people.

* (15:00)

      Despite the intent that these officers are to be in­de­pen­dent from the Manitoba gov­ern­ment, the offi­cers are currently appointed by order-in-council, often referred to as Cabinet, based on the recom­men­dation of an individual from the Legis­lative Assembly Standing Com­mit­tee on Legis­lative Affairs. Their remuneration is also deter­mined by the Lieutenant Governor-in-Council.

      And so a com­mit­tee of MLAs is formed, a sub­committee is formed from a broader standing com­mit­tee, they go about the process with help from staff members to recruit toward the filling of these positions, a recom­men­dation is made at that sub­committee, it comes up to the standing com­mit­tee of whatever com­mit­tee was struck to do the hiring and then, ultimately, that recom­men­dation is approved and signed off on by Executive Council by Cabinet.

      But this bill would amend that process to require that the OLAs be appointed by a motion of the Legislative Assembly, rather than the prov­incial Cabinet, and this aligns with the practice in most other provinces.

      So instead of the com­mit­tee being struck, the stand­ing com­mit­tee, a subcommittee then being struck, MLAs and staff on that subcommittee making the recom­men­dation coming back to the com­mit­tee and then being approved by Cabinet, it would actu­ally–that recom­men­dation could come to the House and the House would approve the hiring of the officer of the Legis­lative Assembly, which is more con­sistent with them not being directly responsible to Cabinet.

      Respon­si­bility for OLA remuneration, their pay, would also be transferred to LAMC to align with their financial oversight for all other aspects of the office.

      So right now, the pay, while I believe is negotiated through that hiring process but then it is then signed off through an order-in-council through Cabinet, it would be done by LAMC because LAMC, for those members in this House who have sat on LAMC before know that, every year, the budgets of the in­de­pen­dent–of the officers of the Legis­lative Assembly come to LAMC and then get discussed and approved. And so this would be in line with that by having the pay for the officer of the Legis­lative Assembly also go to LAMC.

      Under the bill, the OLAs will be required to have a deputy OLA appointed, again, with the approval of LAMC, also making it more con­sistent. The amend­ments would also clarify that the deputy OLAs are authorized to act if the OLA is absent or that position becomes vacant, which has happened from time to time.

      The positions of Deputy Ombudsman and Deputy Clerk of the Legis­lative Assembly would be enshrined in legis­lation to align with the practices of other large OLA offices.

      It should be noted that a deputy officer of the Legis­lative Assembly for the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner, Infor­ma­tion and Privacy Adjudicator and lobbyist register positions would not be created due to the level of work and size of those offices; they are relatively small offices compared to the other offices. These positions have traditionally been held by one individual with the support of an admin­is­tra­tive assist­ant.

      The bill would also esta­blish a term limit for the Chief Electoral Officer. Manitoba is one of only four provinces that do not specify a term limit in legis­lation for the Chief Electoral Officer. The length of the term of office is proposed to be from the date of ap­point­ment until 12 months after the date set for the return of the last writ of the second general election for which the Chief Electoral Officer's respon­si­ble.

      So, for example, a Chief Electoral Officer is hired. They then would preside over two general elec­tions and then, 12 months after that, their term would expire and, of course, they could then be renewed. This is similar to the term used in Saskatchewan and British Columbia, other provinces and the federal gov­ern­ment use a set number of years for a term limit. Manitoba chose to follow the election cycle term limit approach to mitigate the risk of the office being vacated during a critical time in the election schedule.

      Current OLAs and deputy OLAs would be grand­fathered in their current roles and continue to–continue in the office upon the enactment of the bill. So the current Chief Electoral Officer would not be subject to the term limit provisions in this bill. Any new OLA or deputy OLA would be appointed under the new processes created by the bill.

      So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we will have the op­por­tun­ity to discuss this bill in more detail at com­mit­tee stage. But I would conclude by saying that all of us have borne a witness to the good work of officers of the Legis­lative Assembly, all of us have had many interactions with them. Those who have sat on LAMC have maybe had more interactions in terms of the internal workings of the office.

      The in­ten­tion has always been–and I think from a gov­ern­ment perspective, whether the NDP were in gov­ern­ment, and I believe the in­de­pen­dent Liberals would feel the same way, that the in­ten­tion was always to ensure that those offices are not only in­de­pen­dent of gov­ern­ment, but are seen to be in­de­pen­dent on gov­ern­ment.

      So this really puts into practice ensuring that they not only are in­de­pen­dent of gov­ern­ment, but they are also seen to be in­de­pen­dent of government.

      So, I hope that all members can accept this bill in the spirit in which it has been drafted and tabled today.

Questions

Mr. Deputy Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: the first question by the official opposition critic or designate, subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposi­tion parties, subsequent questions asked by each in­dependent member, remaining questions asked by any op­posi­tion member. No question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds.

Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Would the minister tell us how Bill 26 will increase trans­par­ency and fairness in how in­de­pen­dent officers are appointed?

Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): It's an excellent question from my friend, and the officers of the Legis­lative Assembly is, if she know–that I think she may have sat on some of these processes for hiring.

      They are hired at a subcommittee level, but then ultimately becomes the Cabinet who has to sign the order-in-council.

      It is more trans­par­ent if that decision comes back to the Assembly and all members ratify the decision.

Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Wondering what happens with a minority gov­ern­ment when there's an election and the Chief Electoral Officer's term is up at a time that's coinciding with a prov­incial election.

Mr. Goertzen: So the Chief Electoral Officer would be able to preside over two general elections and then 12 months after that second general election, the term would be up. I think the member might be suggesting what if, after that second general election, there's a minority gov­ern­ment and there's a potential for election.

      I think that, like a lot of things, the members of the Assembly would see that as a challenge and likely move pretty expediently to reappoint a Chief Electoral Officer. This just brings us in line with other provinces. Of course, like every piece of legis­lation it can't foresee every potential reality in an election cycle, but my ex­pect­a­tion would be that the decision on the extension of–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired.

Ms. Fontaine: What prompted the Minister of Justice to bring forward these changes at this time? Where did that recom­men­dation come from?

Mr. Goertzen: It is part of my long-standing desire for peace, order and good gov­ern­ment, Mr. Deputy Speaker. But also because I understand, and I really do ap­pre­ciate this Assembly and, you know, those of us who've been here for a relatively long time. I've only been here 19 years, so half the time of the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway), but, you know, you do learn to ap­pre­ciate the inner workings of things, LAMC, the roles of the officers of the Legislative Assembly, and it just became clear that it was an inconsistency.

      It could have gone on for a long time. I don't think there would have been any problem or anybody would have had an issue with it. But it just seemed like an op­por­tun­ity to clean up some­thing that didn't quite make sense.

Ms. Fontaine: I got so many questions, Deputy Speaker. Could the minister explain to the House which other juris­dic­tions follow the format of re­quiring a reso­lu­tion of the Assembly while hiring an in­de­pen­dent officer?

Mr. Goertzen: So I think it's either my advancing age or the acoustics in here, but I didn't quite pick up the question that the member asked. She said some­thing about which other provinces follow an exemption, but I didn't catch the exemption part.

Ms. Fontaine: Could the minister explain to the House which other juris­dic­tions follow the format of requiring a reso­lu­tion of the Assembly while hiring an in­de­pen­dent officer?

Mr. Goertzen: Yes, indeed, my hearing was faulty on that–a reso­lu­tion, not exemption.

* (15:10)

      So my under­standing is that this brings us in line with all or most other provinces in terms of not having the Cabinet sign an OIC for an officer of the Legislative Assembly, but I will, for com­mit­tee–and I've done this before with–I've seen it at yesterday's com­mit­tee–I will ensure that I have a clear answer for the member opposite prior to my opening comments at com­mit­tee when this bill comes to com­mit­tee.

Ms. Fontaine: Could the minister explain why it's actually im­por­tant to take this decision from the author­ity of the–of Cabinet to the Legis­lative Assembly? Like, why is that im­por­tant?

Mr. Goertzen: It's a thoughtful question from my friend. I think that, you know, would anything have changed, or could, you know, what kind of–what could have happened in the future?

      I suppose that, you know, the legis­lative committee could have come back with a recom­men­dation and Cabinet could have said no, we don't agree.

      Now, I don't recall that ever happening, nor do I foresee a situation where that could happen. But I do think that the perception is much better when an officer of the Legis­lative Assembly, who is beholden to the Assembly and not to gov­ern­ment per se, is actually ratified by the Assembly itself.

Ms. Fontaine: Could the minister explain the ap­point­ment process in place for clerks in other juris­dic­tions?

Mr. Goertzen: I don't know that I have a detailed answer for how every clerk is hired. I might look to the Clerk to provide some of that answer because I know, with her long ex­per­ience, she would have that–but not to drag her into the debate.

      But my–this parti­cular legis­lation would ensure that it goes through LAMC. And again, LAMC is a body that has MLAs appointed to it. It would be similar, I think, to the federal House Ways and Means com­mit­tee where things are done by consensus.

      And, again, we've been very lucky to be served by tre­men­dous clerks in this House: of course, the current Clerk; Binx Remnant, the former clerk; and that assurance that MLAs are involved in that process, I think, has been a big part–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired.

Ms. Fontaine: Could the minister clarify the follow­ing: Will all salaries for officers of the Assembly be deter­mined by LAMC?

Mr. Goertzen: So I believe that they will be ratified by LAMC. If I understand the process correctly now, when a com­mit­tee is formed to hire an officer of the Legis­lative Assembly, and then a subcom­mit­tee is formed, they advertise for the job. People bring in their applications–send in their applications–there is a salary ex­pect­a­tion.

I believe when an offer is made to an individual, once the com­mit­tee has decided who they want to hire, they do so with a salary. Now, that salary then normally gets applied by Cabinet. In this case, that salary ex­pect­a­tion, through the job offer, would go to LAMC.

Ms. Fontaine: Can the minister clarify: With the proposed changes in Bill 26, does LAMC now ap­prove ap­point­ments of deputy officers for each of the in­de­pen­dent officers and how does that–what will that look like?

Mr. Goertzen: I thank my friend for the question.

      I believe what will happen is that the officer of the Legis­lative Assembly who will come to LAMC–and of course they often appear before LAMC, usually on budget issues–but they would make a recom­men­dation in terms of who their deputy would be, and then LAMC would essentially ratify that person as a deputy. In case the officer couldn't act or was unable to act there would always be a deputy that LAMC was aware of who would be acting in their place.

Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I just wanted to ask the member–the minister, what happens when the House is perhaps not sitting and there's a need for an ap­point­ment? Would this cause delays in the process of getting some of these officers and officials appointed when the House is not sitting for one reason or the other?

Mr. Goertzen: Yes. It is–it's a good question and I don't foresee that delay happening. Of course, if there was a need to ensure that the House was coming and was back to have a reso­lu­tion tabled, that could always be done. We could always ensure that it would happen.

But, you know, it's a fair question, and I ap­pre­ciate the member opposite asking it. I'm–can provide him some more details of the different mechanisms by which these things can happen interses­sionally at com­mit­tee, but it is a very im­por­tant question.

Mr. Moses: Just to follow up on that, I'd just–wonder if the minister, perhaps, considered options, or per­haps looked to other juris­dic­tions to seek guidance on this question, to see whether there are other models of, perhaps, all parties getting together and deciding we need to cold the Assembly together so that we can put forward a reso­lu­tion to fill one of these positions, if it is a urgent need of a vacancy.

Mr. Goertzen: I'm not sure that I heard all of the ques­tion, and, again, I'm sure that that's my fault or the bad acoustics in here. I think he was asking about, you know, the op­por­tun­ity for all members to get together when it comes to reso­lu­tions and 'thersorse' sorts of things.

      I mean, that does happen to some degree in the Manitoba Legislature. I don't know that it happens as much as members sometimes would like, or would like to see more of that. Member's a relatively new member, he may have some ideas. Of course, we're having discussions around rules right now, and we have iterative discussions around rules and there could always be rules that could be changed to provide more of that op­por­tun­ity.

Mr. Moses: Just to clarify on that point, I was just asking is the minister open to the idea of, perhaps, an all-party com­mit­tee to discuss when situations would arise when there's a vacancy in a 'partish'–a parti­cular position, and the House does need to be recalled so that we can pass a reso­lu­tion.

      Is the minister open to that idea of maybe having an all-party com­mit­tee to discuss when the House should or should not be recalled to fill these sort of vacant positions?

Mr. Goertzen: Yes, I better understood the member's question, thanks to my earpiece here.

      For sure. I mean, this is one of these topics and these situations where when it comes to officers of the Legis­lative Assembly, I think we've done a pretty good job–although there have been some notable exceptions and I was a part of some of those–where there were disputes about officers of the Legis­lative Assembly.

      But 90 per cent of the time, this is done on an all-party basis. So if there's a need for an all-party dis­cussion about having to bring back the House to ratify a motion or some­thing like that, if there's not another mechanism, of course, I think we all benefit by trying to make these 'non-politeral' discussions when it comes to these OLAs. So that is the spirit with which this bill has been brought forward.

Mr. Moses: I just wanted to ask the member–the minis­ter if there are any other juris­dic­tions even beyond Canada where perhaps there are further degrees of in­de­pen­dence that would allow these posi­tions to be appointed even more in­de­pen­dently than what is being offered in this bill. And I only ask that because in this Chamber we are very, you know, in­de­pen­dent in some­what respect. We also hold partisan hats in another respect.

      So to wonder if the minister's thought about other options that would be very–increase the in­de­pen­dence of appointing ap­point­ments for these positions.

Mr. Goertzen: Yes, I suspect, I haven't done sort of a survey of the Westminster parlia­mentary system to see how their officers all work. I–that might be good work to under­take, and I, you know, we could certainly look at that under­taking if the member wants.

      I want to be clear, right? I mean, I refer to them as officers of the Legis­lative Assembly. They operate in­de­pen­dently, but they do operate under legis­lation of the House, and they do come to LAMC and make pre­sen­ta­tions on their budget.

      So, you know, in­de­pen­dence is always in the eye of the beholder. They're–operationally are in­de­pen­dent, but, of course, they are tethered to this House through legis­lation and through the financial realities that everybody is in Manitoba, and so they present in that way. So they–as officers of the Legis­lative Assembly, they certainly have operational in­de­pen­dence, but–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired.

Ms. Fontaine: I got to use it all, Deputy Speaker.

      So, it's been almost two years since the Ombudsman office released a scathing report docu­menting the gov­ern­ment's lack of timely responses to FIPPA requests. These same offices still regularly fail to respond to FIPPA requests on time.

      Could the minister explain why his gov­ern­ment has failed to improve response times since the Ombudsman report?

Mr. Goertzen: I suspect if I wanted to make a point on relevance, I probably could, but that's not really what I'd want to do at this time.

* (15:20)

      Clearly, you know, independent officers, they do have a role to release reports. I think it was the auditor that released a scathing report on Tiger Dams, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and how the gov­ern­ment failed to get Treasury Board author­ity to make purchases, and that there were all sorts of concerns about conflict.

      So, yes, in­de­pen­dent officers, Office of the Legislative Assembly, have a respon­si­bility to provide reports, and sometimes they are critical of the gov­ern­ment.

Mr. Moses: I–you know, I think it's im­por­tant that we look at improving in­de­pen­dence when it comes to some of these ap­point­ments.

      Is the minister looking at improving in­de­pen­dence in ap­point­ments of other positions, for gov­ern­ment positions? In parti­cular, I'll just name one, for example, judges in this province. Are they looking to increase in­de­pen­dence when it comes to appointing those types of positions?

Mr. Goertzen: I'm sure that the member will know that the judicial in­de­pen­dence is a hallmark of our system of gov­ern­ment, where you have the separa­tion of the 'judicuary' and the executive branch of government. That is well governed by statute; it's gov­ern­ment by case law, and we continue to support the in­de­pen­dence of our 'judicuary'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The time for questions has expired.

      And before we open the floor, I just wish to draw attention to a comment made during the question period. Sometimes it's hard to hear in this place; maybe acoustics, maybe one is aging. And ear pieces are available for all who wish to use them.

Debate

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The floor is open for debate.

Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I love my ear piece. Yes. It's great. I suggest everybody wear their earpiece, it's a good tool for the Assembly.

      I am happy to get up, Deputy Speaker, and speak to Bill 26, The Officers of the Assembly Act. This bill  amends various acts with respect to the appoint­ment of the following officers of the Assembly: the advocate for child and youth, the Auditor General, the Chief Electoral Officer, the Clerk of the Assembly, the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner, the Infor­ma­tion and Privacy Adjudicator, the Ombudsman, the reg­ister appointed under The Lobbyists Registration Act.

      And currently, these officers are appointed by the Lieutenant Governor-in-Council on the recom­men­dation of a com­mit­tee of the Assembly. Their renumeration is also deter­mined by the Lieutenant Governor-in-Council.

      As a result of these amend­ments, the officers, other than the Clerk of the Assembly, are appointed by the Assembly on the recom­men­dation of the stand­ing com­mit­tee of Legis­lative affairs. The Clerk's ap­point­ment is on the recom­men­dation of the Legislative Assembly Manage­ment Com­mis­sion.

      The officers' renumeration is to be deter­mined by the Legis­lative Assembly Manage­ment Com­mis­sion. The officers may appoint their deputies prior ap­proval–with prior approval to that com­mis­sion, and current officers of the Assembly and their deputies con­tinue in-office on the coming-into-force of this act.

      And then amend­ments are made to The Legislative Assembly Manage­ment Com­mis­sion Act and five other acts.

      So, that's the gist of the bill, and we've heard ques­tions and answers from the minister and from various members that have asked questions here.

      I want to spend a little bit of time just commenting on–you know, we on this side of the House certainly do–are in support of maintaining the in­de­pen­dent nature of these offices–officers of the Assembly. And so, I don't think that we have anything parti­cularly–any parti­cular concerns in respect of Bill 26.

      I think that it's always a good day when we can put an infra­structure in place that ensure the in­de­pen­dence for offices in the Assembly.

      I do want to concentrate a little bit on the de­part­ment–or, the office of the Manitoba advocate for child and youth, you know, which will–is part of Bill 26 as well. And so, as you know, Deputy Speaker, Manitoba advocate for child and youth or MACY as they are called, is an in­de­pen­dent non-partisan office of the Manitoba Legis­lative Assembly. It represents the rights, interests and viewpoints of children, youth and youth adults through­out Manitoba who are re­ceiving or are entitled to receive public services, and that includes child and family, adoption, dis­abil­ity, mental health, addictions, edu­ca­tion, victim supports or youth justice.

      The office does this by advocating directly with children and youth or on their behalf with caregivers and other stake­holders. Advocacy also involves re­viewing public services after the death of any young person, any young Manitoban, when that person or their family was involved with a reviewable service as defined in The Advocate for Children and Youth Act.

      Additionally, the Manitoba advocate is em­power­ed to, under the prov­incial law, to make recom­men­dations to gov­ern­ment and other public bodies. It con­ducts child-centered research, it disseminates its find­ings and educates the public on children's rights and other matters under The Advocate for Children and Youth Act.

      So it does a phenomenal amount of work for Manitoba, for Manitoba youth and, obviously, every­body in this House will know that those powers were extended just a couple of years back when it included all of these other reviewable bodies. And so we know that the mandate for MACY has increased and that their work has increased.

      And they've done some pretty phenomenal work. I just want to concentrate or offer a little bit of commentary on a couple of them. You know, we've had the pleasure of partici­pating in–well, in the last couple of years, certainly over Zoom calls–when MACY was about to release some really critical and im­por­tant research and reports that they did. I'll talk about a couple of them, Deputy Speaker.

      One of them, back in November of 2021, MACY released the Manitoba advocate's in­vesti­gation into suicide. Homicide deaths of 45 boys reveal common risks–risk factors which include poverty and dis­crimination.

      And so, what that report did, you know, the advo­cate made four recom­men­dations to address systemic inequities ex­per­ienced parti­cularly by First Nation children, youth and com­mu­nities. And so they–that in­vesti­gation included looking at the lives of 45 boys who died from either suicide or homicide between the years of 2019 and two thousand and 2018, that those boys had passed and that MACY had done this report and this research.

      And what I really ap­pre­ciate about MACY, what I really honour about the work that MACY does is that they often work with the guidance and expertise and wisdom of elders that they have in the com­mu­nities and they also have a council. It's called the MACY's Knowledge Keeper and Elders Council. And so I think that that's pretty phenomenal that MACY has been able to include those knowledge keepers and those individuals that hold the wisdom, you know, not only for, you know, Indigenous youth or Indigenous com­mu­nities, but really for all of us. I think that we can agree that elders play a sig­ni­fi­cant role in all of our lives and so I like that MACY does that.

      And they were guided–this report was guided by the guidance of these elders, and together they worked with Dr. Marlyn Bennett. I don't know if folks know Dr. Bennett. I've known Dr. Bennett since we were in uni­ver­sity together and she is pretty in­cred­ible. She is in­cred­ibly brilliant. She has wrote so many reports, parti­cularly with, you know, within the systems and parti­cularly concentrating on children or the ex­ploit­ation of Indigenous women and girls. And so they worked with Dr. Marlyn Bennett who's from the Univer­sity of Manitoba on this report.

* (15:30)

      And then what I–what they did here was they also held a digital story time–storytelling workshop with two First Nation boys, and they created a music video where the boys reflect on their lived experiences, and so helping to inform this report.

      And why is this report and the way that MACY executed this report, why is it im­por­tant? Because this report should help inform the way that gov­ern­ments respond to systemic issues of racism and poverty and discrimination for Indigenous boys. And so that's why this report, which is just one report, is so important.

      And I just want to read for the record some­thing that the acting Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth said on the release of this. As we create–and I quote: As we created this report, elders spoke to us about the importance of recovering what has been lost: the traditions and ceremonies that connect young boys to their grandparents and support their identity dev­elop­ment including storytelling. In this special report and video, the gov­ern­ment of Manitoba has an op­por­tun­ity to listen to the voices of young men and their families. Together we must honour the lives lost by investing in a future where boys–and First Nation boys in parti­cular–have equal op­por­tun­ities to grow and thrive. End quote, Deputy Speaker.

      I think that that is, again, why MACY is so im­por­tant because it offers the gov­ern­ment of the day the op­por­tun­ity to learn the lessons of youth who passed, right? Who died of suicide or died of murder, so that their lives were not for–were not just for nothing, that their lives matter.

      I think that's some­thing that a lot of folks kind of miss on these things is, parti­cularly the way that Indigenous youth, and in parti­cular, well, all Indigenous youth, but, you know, Indigenous boys and Indigenous girls are socially constructed in very different ways. Indigenous boys have been socially con­structed as, you know, gangsters, as criminals. I mean, I think all of us remember several years back when the premier, the former premier, Brian Pallister, you know, tried to construct or–you know, all young Indigenous men as criminals.

      And there are very real con­se­quences to that social construction. When we construct Indigenous male youth as inherently criminal, or as inherently bad, or as inherently not worthy of trust, or inherently unlovable, it creates the con­di­tions in which young Indigenous boys and young Indigenous men take their lives and/or are murdered.

      And so, you know, when we look at Bill 26 and we look at the importance of Bill 26, you know, it's im­por­tant that we have officers of the Assembly appointed to these bodies that are truly independent so that we don't have–and as the minister said earlier, you know, recom­men­dations from the subcommittee coming and Cabinet saying, you know, yea or nay or nay; that they don't like the individual because the individual potentially is going to be offering too much criticism of the gov­ern­ment.

      And so, you know, I would agree with the Gov­ern­ment House Leader or the Minister of Justice (Mr. Goertzen) that it's im­por­tant to have officers wholly in­de­pen­dent. And again, I think one of the–a good way to illustrate that is the reports from MACY.

      I do also just want to put on the record a little bit in respect to the work that the in­de­pen­dent office of the Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth in this report put on there. The aggregate in­vesti­gation re­vealed common and modification risk factors for the young men who died, 78 per cent of whom were identified as First Nation youth, and 49 per cent of whom lived in northern Manitoba.

      Risk factors included living in poverty, ex­per­iencing racism and discrimination, witnessing care­giver substance use and in­de­pen­dent partner violence between adults, involvement in the justice system, poor attendance in school and problematic substance use. Gang involvement was also a commonality among many of the young men who died of homicide.

      So, you know, I think it's im­por­tant to put these words on the record because I–you know, my concern is that since we on–some of us on this side of the House had that meeting with MACY, I–we haven't seen any, you know, any press releases or any pro­grams coming out from the government that I see that is tackling the increased risk of Indigenous youth to suicide and homicide. We haven't seen any of that.

      And so, you know, it's im­por­tant that these offi­cers are in­de­pen­dent and these offices are in­de­pen­dent. But what I would put on the record is that it's one thing to be in­de­pen­dent, but then for a gov­ern­ment not to do anything I think is problematic.

      And so this is a good start but, like I said in the last, you know, six years–or seven years, I don't even know how long it's been here but, you know, we haven't really seen much commit­ment or action from the gov­ern­ment on any of these files, and this is just one of them.

      So I want to just put on the record the four points here, the recom­men­dations for the gov­ern­ment of Manitoba, and they were: (1) to co‑ordinate between gov­ern­ment and Child and Family Services author­ities to include evidence-based and culturally safe sup­ports for parents with substance use disorders in their homes, with the goal of reducing apprehensions; (2) continue work on an Indigenous inclusion strategy that includes culturally ap­pro­priate school en­gage­ment initiatives tailored to Indigenous boys to help close the achieve­ment gap and increase high school completion rates; (3) demon­strate the dev­elop­ment or continuation of sus­tain­able initiatives in anti-racist edu­ca­tion for all students, administrators, teachers and support staff; and (4) col­lab­o­rate with the Gov­ern­ment of Canada and consult with Manitoba com­mu­nities to update, fund and implement a prov­incial youth gang pre­ven­tion strategy.

      So that's one of the reports that, in the last two years, MACY has under­taken. And, again, I would suggest that that report was done in the spirit in which MACY operates, which is as an in­de­pen­dent body and I would suggest will become, you know, more in­de­pen­dent in respect of the ap­point­ment of its advocate.

      So another report that we sat in on with the child advocate, the acting child advocate, was in June of 2021, so just last June. And it–that report that they released was the–it was a report on Manitoba Justice's progress on the use of solitary confinement and segre­ga­tion. And, again, during that time MACY called and renewed its call for a system change. And that was borne out of, you know, many different reports, not the least Nelson Mandela, a report coming from that on the use of solitary confinement, parti­cularly for children.

      And so I think that this is a really im­por­tant report to put on the record here in the House because, again, we're talking about children and using what can be forms of torture, really. The use of solitary confine­ment can be a form of torture for children.

      So it–yes, Bill 26, you know, creates the process whereby appointing Assembly officers to be more in­de­pen­dent–which, again, is fine–but when you appoint officers of the Assembly to be in­de­pen­dent, but you actually don't adhere to any of the work or the recom­men­dations that they're bringing forward, I think it's problematic.

* (15:40)

      Bill 26 could've actually gone even further. Bill 26 could've, you know, embedded language that, you know, the gov­ern­ment has a respon­si­bility to respond to the reports that all of the agencies–or, all of the in­de­pen­dent offices bring forward, including MACY. They could've strengthened Bill 26 by doing that. And so it's im­por­tant to put on the record, parti­cularly for everybody in the House here, you know, what is the call for MACY.

      And in 2019, a special report made six recom­men­dations calling on the Manitoba gov­ern­ment and Manitoba Justice to end the use of segregation for over 24 consecutive hours and work with other gov­ern­ment de­part­ments to enhance therapeutic alternatives to sup­port the rehabilitation and reintegration of young people in custody.

      And so, again, when I go back to–yes, Bill 26 is, you know, trying to create an infra­structure whereby the ap­point­ment of officers are more in­de­pen­dent. But since the 2019 publication, MACY has been monitor­ing the gov­ern­ment's process–or, progress by ana­lyzing monthly data and working with de­part­mental officials on strategies to move each of the recom­men­dations closer to completion. And so, in June of 2021–to date, only one of their six recom­men­dations, which was increasing oversight of pepper spray use, had been deemed fully compliant by MACY.

      So, the report came out in 2019 and, by June of 2021, only one of the six recom­men­dations had been fulfilled. There's only six recom­men­dations. It's not like it was, you know, 300 recom­men­dations and–they only got one.

      So, again, Deputy Speaker, I want to go back to the fact that–and I said this yesterday–or today? Today. No, couple of days ago. Whatever, I don't know.

      You know, the gov­ern­ment does, you know, tries to bring forward, you know, bills or reso­lu­tions or whatever it may be, to act like they're doing some­thing. But at the end of the day, in all reality the gov­ern­ment is doing the bare minimum.

      And so, yes, Bill 26 is fine and it's good to move forward in respect of, you know, in­de­pen­dent officers and, you know, putting that–giving that respon­si­bility to LAMC and then ultimately to this body here, to this room here, that's fine, but here's MACY, one of the in­de­pen­dent offices of the Assembly, who has brought forward, again, recom­men­dations there, only six re­com­­men­dations here, and there's no action.

      And I think what's frustrating is that in–and why I'm concentrating my comments on MACY is because we're talking about children. We're talking about, you know, the most vul­ner­able of Manitoba–Manitobans, which is children, and if you can't get the gov­ern­ment to move on following through on all of the recom­men­dations in respect of vul­ner­able children, what can you get the gov­ern­ment to move on? The gov­ern­ment has–is doing the bare, bare minimum in respect of Manitoba children who are most at risk.

      So, again, you know, the gov­ern­ment had an op­por­tun­ity to strengthen Bill 26, to make them­selves more accountable to the reports that come out. You know, in–back in June, when the Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth, they released the special re­port, and it updated–provides insights into the Province's ongoing use of solitary confinement and seg­re­gation in youth custody facilities.

      And the purpose of their report was to update and amplify the voices of youth who continue to ex­perience segregation and solitary confinement in Manitoba youth custody facilities and also the voices of Justice personnel who say they need more tools to manage children and youth who enter custody already carrying emotional trauma and other complex needs.

      I'll share with the House in the couple of minutes that I have left, several months ago I had the op­por­tun­ity–I've been to MYC, Manitoba Youth Centre, many, many times over the years. I cannot even count how many times I've been there. I went there, oh, I don't know, 20 years ago. We used to–I used to be on an Indigenous woman's drum group. We had a big drum. We were called Daughters of the Dream Drum. And we were asked to go and sing on our drum at the MYC, Manitoba Youth Centre.

      And every single time that I have an op­por­tun­ity to go there–which, again, included just a couple of months ago I was there. And, you know, the youth that are currently housed at MYC are, you know–contrary to the way that they would be constructed–are just babies. Like they're just babies who have so much trauma, who have so much hurt, who have ex­per­ienced things that, you know, most people will never ex­per­ience.

      And so, when you look at the recom­men­dation for MACY to end segregation more than 24 hours, you know, I don't understand why the gov­ern­ment hasn't moved on that. I know that I have. I'm currently–I have a bill that's just getting finished that I will intro­duce that would, you know, take the advice of the Manitoba advocate and every other pro­fes­sional and expert who says solitary confinement for children is not good. Solitary confinement and segregation for children is a form of torture. And, you know, solitary confinement and segregation that's used pre­domi­nantly against Indigenous children is a violation of Indigenous children's rights in this province.

      And so, you know, I'm just a lowly, you know, op­posi­tion MLA, and I'm trying to do the best that I can to listen to the experts that MACY brought together, and to honour the report and the recom­men­dations that came forward from youth and from personnel. I'm just a lowly op­posi­tion MLA, but I'm bringing forward legis­lation to stop that. I don't know why the gov­ern­ment hasn't acted on that.

      So, you know, it's fine and dandy to stand up in this House and say that we're going to, you know, with Bill 26, create more of an in­de­pen­dence within, you know, the Assembly offices–or, officers. That's fine. That's fine and dandy, we all want that, but govern­ment has a responsibility to do more. Gov­ern­ment has a respon­si­bility to actually read the reports that these offices are producing. And in parti­cular, if you're only going to read one–which, I mean obviously, you're in gov­ern­ment, you should be reading all of them–but if you're only going to be reading one, you should be reading the Advocate for Children and Youth. And you should be reading the reports that they brought forward.

      I can't go through all of them, Deputy Speaker. I wish I had, like, four more hours to speak on this. You know, in March of 2021 they also released Bridging the Gaps: Achieving Substantive Equality for Children with Dis­abil­ities in Manitoba. In December of 2021, they released their annual gov­ern­ment com­pliance report, which acts as a report card sum­marizing the progress made by the Province toward the intent of the advocate's 51 recom­men­dations made between 2018 and 2020.

      Let me put this on the record, Deputy Speaker. I know that I've said it many times. Bill 21 could–or, Bill 26 could have been strengthened by having some form of account­ability on the part of the gov­ern­ment, and here's why. This year's compliance report, kids can't keep waiting, outlines individual assessments for each of MACY's recom­men­dations, as well as trends observed in compliance by special reports. Only 8 per cent, or four of 51 recom­men­dations for service im­prove­ments, have been fully imple­mented–four out  of 51. Less than half, 43 per cent of the recom­men­dations, have demon­strated substantive actions to­wards imple­men­ta­tion.

* (15:50)

      Manitoba Edu­ca­tion is the de­part­ment with the high­est compliance levels, at an 'overile' compliance rate of 75 per cent compared to 42 per cent the previous year.

      Manitoba Health and Seniors Care continues to have the lowest average compliance rating at 25 per cent. This rating can largely be attributed to a lack of action reported towards addressing recom­men­dation to prevent sleep-related infant deaths.

      Manitoba Justice has an average compliance of–rate of just 45 per cent, while Manitoba Families has a 43 per cent compliance rate.

      These are not great numbers. These show a lack of action, a lack of commit­ment, a lack of care, a lack of concern, a lack of knowledge on the part of the gov­ern­ment, again, towards Manitoba children. Towards Manitoba children who are some of the most at-risk children.

      This is not a good record. And members opposite in the PC caucus–and I've said this many times in the last six, seven years, whatever it is–each and every one of those members are complicit in not following through or getting in compliance with any of the recom­men­dations.

      So, each and every one of them is respon­si­ble. We could've done more with Bill 26–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired.

Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): I 'appreciote' the op­por­tun­ity to put a few words on the record regarding Bill 26, and I'd like to thank the minister for all the work that I know that he and his staff have put into this to review all of the facts, and compare other juris­dic­tions.

       I know that there's always more work that can be done, and we had some of that discussion during the question period about what other Commonwealth nations do in regards to this.

      But I think we recog­nize–on–all recog­nize how im­por­tant it is to have these in­de­pen­dent officers of the Legislature, and that there is a clear and obviously accountable process and that the results of their recom­men­dations come forward to the Legislature in a way that we all can ap­pre­ciate and work with them.

      I know that many of us over 'thna' years–and I know that the member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine) went into some detail of her interactions with the children's advocate–and a number of us have had interactions with the children's advocate on case work and also by going to see and meet with them, and also when they come to report to com­mit­tee. And we all respect the work that they do.

      I think it's very im­por­tant that that is a very trans­par­ent process as much as is possible because we know that there are probably going to be times when some of the recom­men­dations aren't popular with gov­ern­­ment, whether it's this gov­ern­ment or previous gov­ern­ments, and the–but we need to hear what needs to be said and begin to build on that.

      And if–you have to have the right people in the right position, and I think that very much, this is what this bill is all about, is making sure we get the right people, in the right way, in the right jobs, at the right time.

      Same with the Auditor General. Of course, we all know that the 'audigeneral's' report is very im­por­tant to the finance side of how we operate here in Manitoba. He doesn't always agree with Finance Minister. That is a fair judgment, and I know the Finance Minister takes into con­sid­era­tion with great respect what has come from the Auditor General's report, and certainly follows with great diligence what can be done in regards to dealing with the issues.

      Chief Electoral Officer, I think we've all had some interaction with during the election campaigns. They are a very im­por­tant office and we need–and we certainly need to have in place the right people there, and a good working relationship is im­por­tant. All 57  MLAs at one time or the other–in fact, all candidates–have interaction with the Chief Electoral Officer, and it's im­por­tant that that continue.

      And we all–we report regularly to the Infor­ma­tion and Privacy Adjudicator of what our infor­ma­tion and our personal assets are each session. And I think it's im­por­tant that you have a good working relationship and understand what they're looking for and what you have to report in regards to that.

      And, of course, every day we deal with the–in the House, here, we deal with the Clerk of the Assembly. We ap­pre­ciate what she has to say and what she has to know because the range of knowledge that she has is phenomenal. I am not sure how well that this House would operate without her good advice and it's–we're always learning some­thing from her, and I think it's im­por­tant that that process–that's the ap­point­ment of such an im­por­tant person. Let the record show she seems to be embarrassed by this, but it's the truth. We certainly ap­pre­ciate the great work that she does and it makes our lives easier, and I think all Manitobans benefit from her.

      Other officers, of course, of the Assembly, we ap­pre­ciate what you contribute as well, and we are always learning in this House. It seems learning the pro­cess of gov­ern­ance is never done. There are so many precedents that I don't know how you begin to sort them all out on some occasions. I know I'm certainly learning a great deal every day moving forward.

      Did want to comment briefly on the Lobbyist Registrar, which we haven't done too much with here in Manitoba. I had the pleasure of being involved with the Canadian Federation of Agri­cul­ture when the federal gov­ern­ment went through the lobby register pro­cess. It was very complex to be registered. We were amongst the first through that process. I think it's refined and working a little better now. But at that point in time, we had to register as lobby as–federally, to speak to ministers or even to MPs in Ottawa, and we had to do the reporting, not them, which was sort of, in my mind, a backwards way of doing it.

      And at that parti­cular point, they were taking a very broad analysis of what constituted a lobbyist at that point in time and if you had a conflict, from their point of view.

      And, of course, in those days, to be involved with the Canadian Federation of Agri­cul­ture you had to be a farmer somewhere in some province, and depending on your ap­point­ments and election whether or not you had to be a lobbyist. And the federal gov­ern­ment took the view that if you were a farmer, you couldn't be a lobbyist because you benefitted from your lobby. And it took us several years to work through that definition and finally started to a level where it was workable and that we could actually continue doing what we needed to do, which was just to meet on a regular basis and explain our case to the various federal officials.

      I hope that we can work a more rational approach here in Manitoba. But I do think it's im­por­tant that lobbyists do report who they see, when they see and I think it's also im­por­tant that, on the other side, that ministers are trans­par­ent on this.

      The Ombudsman's process–and many of us have been–dealt with the Ombudsman because of Freedom of Infor­ma­tion requests. I know, when I was critic for Family Services, we had–any time, literally dozens of requests into the de­part­ment for Freedom of Infor­ma­tion requests and we had to deal regularly with the  Ombudsman, because in those days we were averaging more than six months wait for any Freedom of Infor­ma­tion request, and sometimes quite a lot more.

      And we would have–often have to repeat them because we would be told no such infor­ma­tion existed and we knew–of fact–it did and so we would have to re-file and re-file on these things to eventually get the infor­ma­tion. And they were quite helpful in the pro­cess and we were able to work with them in a very positive manner.

      And just mention in passing the ethics com­mis­sioner, which I think it's im­por­tant that we all be per­ceived and, in fact, be ethical in our behaviour in this House. I think it's very im­por­tant. I think that is some­thing that everybody looks to us to do and I think it's very im­por­tant moving into the future.

* (16:00)

      So, with those few remarks, I certainly support this bill and I would encourage all members in the House. It may not be absolutely perfect, but I think it's a move in the right direction and a very positive step forward.

      Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): Happy to take a few minutes today to speak on Bill 26, The Officers of the Assembly Act.

      This bill is–it makes a few changes into the ap­point­ment of several officers and officials in terms of the roles that they play, and seeks to increase the in­de­pen­dence of the ap­point­ments of those positions.

      Bill 26 will allow new ap­point­ments of in­de­pen­dent officers to be made through a reso­lu­tion of this House in the Legis­lative Assembly–[interjection]

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

      We can keep chatter to a respectable level, that would be helpful.

Mr. Moses: I ap­pre­ciate that, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      As I was saying, Bill 26 will allow new ap­point­ments of in­de­pen­dent officers to be made through a  reso­lu­tion, this House, here in the Legis­lative Assembly, rather than through the Executive Council. And the–which–this would provide more op­por­tun­ity to ensure that there is a consensus-based decision. And having that type of decision and that type of model would allow there to be greater in­de­pen­dence in the ap­point­ments of those positions.

      Additionally, these amend­ments proposed in this bill, in Bill 26, will have the ap­point­ment of a new Clerk of the Legislature now follow that same process of requiring a reso­lu­tion of the Assembly after LAMC has made a recom­men­dation.

      Those in­de­pen­dent officers will also be able to choose their own deputy to fill in during their absence.

      Now, our in­de­pen­dent officers have done such tre­men­dous work in Manitoba: from producing so many of our special reports on child welfare to auditing parts of gov­ern­ment COVID response; to holding gov­ern­ment accountable to freedom of infor­ma­tion; to conducting demo­cratic elections; and en­suring members follow conflict of interest laws.

      Our officers work hard every day on behalf of Manitobans, and I want to thank them for that hard work.

       When we thank them, we're talking about, spe­cific­ally, the officers of the Advocate for Children and Youth; the Auditor General; the Chief Electoral Officer; the Clerk of the Assembly; the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner, which, as we know, is to be replaced by the ethics com­mis­sioner; the Infor­ma­tion and Privacy Adjudicator; the Ombudsman; the registrar appointed under the lobbies registration act.

      Those, Mr. Acting Deputy Speaker, are some very im­por­tant and critical roles where independence is not just a sug­ges­tion, but it's really some­thing that's at the heart of and critical to those roles, to being able to provide in­de­pen­dent decisions when it comes to conflict of interest; being able to provide in­de­pen­dence when it comes to our election system.

      Those are also so im­por­tant, not just to all of us in this House, who it often directly affects, but really, to all Manitobans who rely on a good, working gov­ern­ment each and every day. And so, we are excited about debating today a bill that proposes to increase in­de­pen­dence in these im­por­tant roles that Manitobans rely on.

      I want to take a few minutes to thank those people in those roles and talk a little bit about what some of those roles are and how some of those roles affect Manitobans and what they do for Manitobans because not everyone in our province is aware of these roles let alone how im­por­tant they are, let alone why it's im­por­tant for those roles to have increased in­de­pen­dence.

      Let me begin, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with the Advocate for Children and Youth. Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth is an in­de­pen­dent office of the Manitoba Legis­lative Assembly. The Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth is em­power­ed by legis­lation to advise children, youth and young adults of their rights and their services, which should be available to them, because as you, I'm sure–I've no doubt that you're well aware, Mr. Deputy Speaker, there are many things in our province, many services available in our province, many rights that are available to people in our province that they may not be aware of. And having an advocate able to explain and to help provide access to services is especially im­por­tant, and I think it's even more im­por­tant for the vul­ner­able people or the people who may not have complete access or infor­ma­tion. I think children and youth fit into that category.

      Those young people who are looking to–looking for help many times, looking to access a service, perhaps sometimes looking to access that service or that help in time of great stress, in a time of great need, and having an advocate work on their behalf is critically im­por­tant. You want to make sure that that advocate is able to fulfill their job in the most in­de­pen­dent way possible so that they can provide the best advocacy role for children and youth.

      Now, the advocate also has the responsibility to raise issues with gov­ern­ment on behalf of the Province's children and to advise the gov­ern­ment on issues and areas of concern. This is exactly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, why the in­de­pen­dence is so im­por­tant. If they're feeling like they have some conflict of interest or some other areas where they might have their interests lie on one side or the other, they might make advocacy difficult for them. It might make their role for raising issues with the gov­ern­ment a challenge.

      And so the more in­de­pen­dence we can add to these positions–and in this case, with Bill 26, through the ap­point­ment of these positions–only goes to strengthen their roles, and goes to strengthen the advocacy that children and youth, young people, could have in Manitoba.

      The Advocate for Children and Youth also conducts research on issues affecting Manitoba's young people. While doing that research, they monitor, they analyze and they publicly report on the compliance of public systems and services and service providers with those recom­men­dations. And part of that that I think is the most valuable is the part about publicly reporting them: as they're reported publicly, as you're able to shine a light on some of these issues that affect Manitoba's youth and young people, you're able to then see how those issues can be resolved and what role the Province of Manitoba can play in solving those issues.

      We know that our province isn't perfect. We know that one of the ways to solve issues that people are  facing in Manitoba is by high­lighting them, by drawing people's attention to them and calling Manitobans, especially those in this Chamber, to action to work on solving some of these issues, especially for people in Manitoba such as children and youth who are–might be more vul­ner­able than other Manitobans.

* (16:10)

      So, we call not only today to thank people who work for the advocacy of children and youth. We, quite frankly, just call on all Manitobans to do more, to do more to help children and youth.

      I think that could be done in the prov­incial level by adding supports for youth services, after-school programs, more prov­incial supports for K‑to‑12 education, for healthy programs for students, for initiatives such as available menstrual products, for initiatives like healthy eating campaigns and food nutrition programs. These are all things that would help students, help young people, help you. And these are the sort of things that we want to advocate for because we know how im­por­tant young people are in our province.

      And so this role of the Advocate for Children and Youth is just one of the roles that's affected by the change to this bill.

      Another role that's affected by the change is the Auditor General, who has a–Mr. Deputy Speaker, I don't imagine you've ever held the role of Auditor General, but I can only imagine that it would be difficult, not just for you, but for anyone to hold that role. And so I want to put a special em­pha­sis on the good work that the Auditor General, and the good role that that is in our province.

      Obviously, The Auditor General Act establishes the Auditor General as an officer of the Manitoba Legis­lative Assembly to provide the Assembly with in­de­pen­dent infor­ma­tion, advice and assurance. Their office examines and reports on how well the gov­ern­ment accounts for the resources entrusted to it and how well it manages its operations.

      As the legis­lative auditor, the Auditor General provides the Legis­lative Assembly with financial state­ments and audits and projects audits. Now, this is im­por­tant when we're taking on such a large financial respon­si­bility, as the Province of Manitoba does, to have clear process of in­de­pen­dence for the Auditor General so that the Auditor General has the ability to in­de­pen­dently and accurately provide those audits on the financial accounts of the Province of Manitoba.

      The Auditor General examines and audits the financial statements included in the province's Public Accounts and any other statements the Minister of Finance presents for audit. As well, as we know, the Auditor General can examine the operations of any gov­ern­ment organi­zation or the use of public money by any recipient of that money. It's called the project audits.

      So, supported by staff of more than 55 indivi­d­uals, the Auditor General serves the Legis­lative Assembly and, in turn, it serves all Manitobans.

And I think it's clear that we've seen, over the history of our province, the importance of that role of Auditor General. We can look at the various reports the Auditor General has put out and published, not just in recent years but going back many, many decades, and how that's impacted people of Manitoba and opera­tions of gov­ern­ment. And having that clear deline­a­­tion, that clear separation between the opera­tion of the Auditor General, the in­de­pen­dence of that role and the operation of this House and members is im­por­tant because we want to be able to have and trust in the Auditor General, trust in a report as being brought forward by the Auditor General because, in many cases, it calls out many of the im­por­tant deci­sions and decision-makers, in our province.

      So, we hope that that role, it can be strengthened and the in­de­pen­dence of that role can be strengthened. And we see some of that, a portion of that, being brought forward, and steps to award–increasing that in­de­pen­dence being brought forward in Bill 26.

      As the gov­ern­ment operations become increas­ing­ly 'compex', the Auditor General's role has become in­creasingly im­por­tant to in­vesti­gate matters that are in the best interests of Manitobans. This gov­ern­ment needs to ensure–[interjection]

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

      Members are not meant to be having phone calls in the Chamber, or video calls, and I just remind all members of that rule. If you do need to take a call, there's places to do so just in the anterooms.

Mr. Moses: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I'll just continue with my remarks there regarding the Auditor General.

      So, the Auditor General–his office needs to be properly resourced. The gov­ern­ment needs to ensure that it is properly resourced so that it can do its job effectively. As I mentioned, there are 55 staff who work as part of that team. They need to make sure that they have the proper resources to do their job effectively.

      This gov­ern­ment got a qualified opinion from the  Auditor General, which is why last year they brought in and intro­duced a bill to change the Workers Compensation Board. And it's reports like this, it's opinions like this, it is the work done by the Auditor General and that office that really is what we rely on for making better laws which make the people in Manitoba understand that we have a responsive sys­tem in this province which can respond to their needs.

      You know, oftentimes, you know, I know, as a private citizen before elected, I always wondered why things often took so long in gov­ern­ment to change and be responsive to the needs of the citizens of the pro­vince. And, you know, under­standing that these things take time, but also seeing the work done by good offices like the Auditor General to call out when the gov­ern­ment needs to make a change; and when the gov­ern­ment needs to act, and act more correctly in the favour of workers and employees in our province, such as the Workers Compensation Board.

      I also want to touch on another im­por­tant role affected by this bill, which is the Chief Electoral Officer. And we all can clearly see, especially those in this room who have been elected, can 'sealy' see and know the importance of the Chief Electoral Officer and why in­de­pen­dence in this position is key.

      As many people in this room, I'm sure, and I hope all members–I don't–can't say I've committed to memory the number with which every member in this Chamber won their seat by, but I'm sure some were large wins. I'm sure some were, you know, good sized wins, medium wins. Some, I'm sure, were very, very close–razor thin. And it's those officials who work to run our elections properly that give us the con­fi­dence, give us as Manitobans the con­fi­dence, in those close decisions.

      And when we see a result that comes down to, you know, 1 per cent, 49 to 50, you know, a really neck-and-neck race, you know, between two candidates vying for an elected office, we want to have that con­fi­dence in that–how that election took place, and the result of that election.

      And so, by strengthening the in­de­pen­dence of the officer–the Chief Electoral Officer, it–the hope is–my hope is that it will only add to the con­fi­dence that Manitobans have in their election results as we move forward in our province.

      It's clear that the role the Chief Electoral Officer plays, administers prov­incial elections to ensure that they are fair, to ensure that they are free of political inter­ference and influence. And that's all set out in The Elections Act and The Election Financing Act.

      Of course, reporting to the Legis­lative Assembly of Manitoba, the CEO must be, and must remain non-partisan, and may not vote in an election. That officer of the chief–the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer, that's, as we know commonly, Elections Manitoba, must always be ready to conduct elections, by-elections and referenda. And in that process of being ready, you must understand the amount of work that it takes to get election ready.

      I know we all–and in this Chamber know–what it takes to get election ready in terms of a candidate and a campaign but we might not always understand what that means to get election ready in terms of running an election from the point of view of a Chief Electoral Officer.

      And so, I thank the Chief Electoral Officer for the good work that they do, and all the staff who work in that office, and all the staff who–and volunteers who come up and work and help out during election time. Like so many of our campaigns, and as so many of us, we ramp up in the lead up to an election. And we ramp up in staffing and in the efforts that we do to prepare for an election.

* (16:20)

      And I know Elections Manitoba does the same. They ramp up in what they do. And so, all those who were working, you know, all year round to prepare and make sure that Manitoba is election ready, and to all of those who are part of that team who come on board in the lead-up to and during an election: I thank you.

      I can even think of times when, you know, during my time as a candidate going door to door and knock­ing and meeting residents in my com­mu­nity, where I have, you know, coincidentally bumped into people who are trying to enumerate citizens in our province and residents in my area.

      And seeing the good work first-hand, up close, face to face with people who are working with Elections Manitoba really heartens and strengthens my con­fi­dence in the system, the electoral system, and the electoral process that we have.

      And so, it's pleasing to know that, you know, we're trying to take steps through Bill 26 to even further strengthen the in­de­pen­dence of that role, and thus, strengthen the electoral system which we all rely on in Manitoba.

      Of course, the office of the Chief Electoral Officer remains ready to go into election mode, and Elections Manitoba enables all qualified Manitobans to vote in prov­incial elections. They do this several ways which are beneficial, and I think one of the ways that I think all Manitobans know is by promoting op­por­tun­ities to vote and educating voters about the electoral process.

      Those are, I think, standards and initiatives within Elections Manitoba which benefits all of us in the province.

      The next role that I want to high­light as a part of this bill, which I–again, I want to thank for their hard work and–is the Clerk of the Assembly. And I know that we have an amazing Clerk here who is always a wealth of resource for us in the Legis­lative Assembly, and is a 'perman' employee–permanent employee of the Legislature.

      The role, as we know, is respon­si­ble for the Legislative Assembly through the Speaker, for maintaining the records of the Assembly, and for the 'custodity'–custody of legis­lative docu­ments. These docu­ments–such as Order Papers, votes, proceedings, debates, things in Hansard–are the lifeblood, the living daily docu­ments that we rely on to organize our debate; to prepare ourselves for question period, for bill debate, for com­mit­tee hearings and for votes.

      And all these docu­ments, all this work that we do gets supported, and gets led and gets cared for by the amazing team of clerks that we had headed by our–the Clerk of our Assembly.

      And so, I want to thank our head clerk, our Clerk, for the good work that she does, and all the people who support her team because that's an invaluable role that we as legis­lators cannot take for granted and must ap­pre­ciate for what it is, for what it means to us, and for how it allows us to do our jobs better in repre­sen­ting the views, opinions of our residents, our con­stit­uents, and how it allows us to advocate for their best interests in this House to the best of our abilities.

      And so, I thank our Clerk for the amazing job that she does.

      Of course, next, we cannot forget about our Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner, as I am sure that we have all in this Chamber had the op­por­tun­ity at one point or the other to get in touch with, making sure that we ought to ensure that we have no conflicts of interests.

      I know that we, you know, are required to fill out docu­men­ta­tion at the start of a session to declare what any conflicts that we have. And I know that we all take that very seriously. And I know that it's some­thing that we should–if there's a failure in judgment, perhaps you forget to file some­thing on a report, perhaps it's overlooked by the elections com­mis­sioner, by–sorry, by the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner, that those issues are dealt with seriously and that, you know, best effort is made by all members to right a wrong or an error in judgment. And I think that most would agree that the majority of public office holders are decent, are hard-working individuals, that they do their best to serve the public as they understand it.

      And so the conflict of interest legis­lation is large­ly intended to assist elected repre­sen­tatives by provi­ding an objective under­standing against which they can gauge their actions and satisfy them­selves with the public that they are acting appropriately. And that's the call that the Conflict of Interest Commissioner faces; that the call that they put on all of us elected repre­sen­tatives, that we can actually go back to the public and say, am I acting appropriately? And I think we can all here today think of examples or perhaps people didn't act appropriately or forgot things that should've been mentioned on conflict of interest docu­ments. But I won't go into that right now, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I won't go into that right now.

      I'll just simply say that that's an im­por­tant role, and having in­de­pen­dence in that role is clearly im­por­tant; it's clearly im­por­tant. And having even more autonomy in that role is some­thing that we should all value as elected officials, giving that com­mis­sioner the ability to take on instances where elected officials have failed and their conflict of interest docu­men­ta­tion is im­por­tant and should be looked at. And I understand that there may be other legis­lation to deal with that area that we might debate at other dates, but I think to say now, right now, that it's im­por­tant that we have that–that we note the importance of that role being in­de­pen­dent from this Chamber.

      And as we move on, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to just high­light some of the con­ver­sa­tion that we had during the time of our question period with the mini­ster in regards to this bill.

      And the question period was pretty–you know, I think the minister was able to handle and answer many questions and though there were some pieces that he was taking away in terms of getting back to us, you know, before com­mit­tee hearings or at other points in time, and that's understandable. I do want the minister to, you know, clearly understand and take to heart our questions around whether this is the best way to provide in­de­pen­dence in some of these roles and to see and endeavour to see if there are other ways to increase in­de­pen­dence in these roles even further, looking perhaps at other–or other juris­dic­tions and other models that might exist even outside of Canada and other Westminster models where they might have other arrangements to even further strengthen the in­de­pen­dence of these roles and allow for a better political system in our province.

      I also wanted to high­light in my questions to the minister about what happens, as this bill calls for a reso­lu­tion to name and appoint officers in this role. What happens, Mr. Deputy Speaker, when this House is not sitting?

      As we know, our House doesn't sit 24‑7, 365. You know, there is at some point in the year where we are on recess for one reason or the other, and during that time, there might be a need to have an official with Elections Manitoba appointed, or needs with the Ombudsman, someone at the role of the Ombudsman appointed or the role has a–Conflict of Interest Commis­sioner appointed or advocate for children appointed. And those ap­point­ments come up, and the timing of those ap­point­ments come up when the House is not sitting. I would hate for those roles to sit vacant or that work to not get done as well as it could if this House is not sitting and we're not able to provide a reso­lu­tion to appoint a person in that role.

* (16:30)

      And so I brought that concern up to the minister for him to in­vesti­gate, to see if there is a way for us to mitigate that concern, and perhaps one option is for us to have an all-party com­mit­tee where we, you know, each in­de­pen­dently raise our voice and say there's a clear need, a urgent need, a vacant need–and this vacancy in this position–and we ought to call the House back, get to the work of debating and appoint­ing a role in this–a person in this role–so that Manitobans don't suffer. And Manitobans, at the end of the day, are the ones who we are working for in this Chamber.

      And so, as we move forward with Bill 26, I'd like to close by saying that every­thing and every role here that's affected by Bill 26 works for the best interests of Manitobans. I know, on our side of the House, we work every day for the best interests of Manitobans and we work to strengthen the in­de­pen­dence of those roles so that they can work again to better the lives of all–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Member's time has expired.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to talk just for a few minutes about Bill 26, which deals with the offer–officers of the Legis­lative Assembly.

      This bill shifts the respon­si­bility from the Cabinet, from the privy council to the Legis­lative Assembly, where it more properly resides, for making the ap­point­ment and the ap­point­ment on the recom­men­dation of the Standing Com­mit­tee of the Assembly on Legis­lative Affairs. This is a positive step. It enhances the sense of in­de­pen­dence of the officers of the Assembly from gov­ern­ment of the day and the ability of these officers to respond to and be respon­si­ble to the Legis­lative Assembly.

      This positive step is associated with a few ad­di­tional changes and amend­ments in procedures. I note, for example, that the term of office for the Chief Electoral Officer is from the date of ap­point­ment until 12 months after the date of the return of the last writ for the second general election, for which the Chief Electoral Officer is respon­si­ble.

Now, there could potentially be a problem if there's a minority gov­ern­ment and there may be an election occurring sometime around the time of a year after the last writ for the second general election, and thus there could be some concerns. However, there is the ability for the person who's the Chief Electoral Officer to be reappointed in such circum­stances, and so that should resolve that issue.

      The legis­lation that doesn't put a limit on the num­ber of times that the Chief Electoral Officer can be reappointed. Often, in circum­stances like this, there is a limit on the number of reappointments. I don't know what the legis­lation is in other provinces; it would be interesting to look at. But in general, this is legislation which we support, making sure that the officers of the Assembly respond to the Assembly and have greater in­de­pen­dence of the gov­ern­ment.

      And so, with those few words, I look forward to this going to com­mit­tee and then to becoming legis­lation in due course.

      Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I'd like to share a few things about Bill 26, The Officers of the Assembly Act. A number of pieces of legis­lation that had come before this House are meant and well-intended to do better, to stream­line, to increase account­ability, trans­par­ency, and there's as­pects of Bill 26 that do those things, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      This bill amends various acts with the respect to the ap­point­ments of the officers of the Assembly: the Advocate for Children and Youth, the Auditor General, the Chief Electoral Officer, the Clerk of the Assembly, the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner–I guess, soon to be replaced by the ethics com­mis­sioner, the Information and Privacy Adjudicator, the Ombudsman, the registrar appointed under The Lobbyists Registration Act.

      Currently, as it sits now, these officers are ap­point­ed by the Lieutenant Governor-in-Council, on  the recom­men­dation of a com­mit­tee and the Assembly. As a result of the amend­ments, the officers, other than the Clerk, are appointed by the Assembly on the recom­men­dation of the Standing Com­mit­tee on Legis­lative Affairs. The Clerk's ap­point­ment is on the recom­men­dation of the Legis­lative Assembly Manage­ment Com­mis­sion. The current officers of the Assembly and their deputies continue in 'officite' until–on the coming into the force of the act, and the 'amendiments' were made to Legis­lative Assembly Manage­ment Com­mis­sion Act and five other acts under this–under the structure and the purpose of this bill.

      Mr. Deputy Speaker, the basis of these offices and these officers is to have not just the perception of in­de­pen­dence, of non-partisanship, of trust, of fairness, but they need to truly have those qualities and those attributes, and this bill steps towards being able to do that.

      There's obviously a lot of different ways, if we had an all-party com­mit­tee, to truly go through some of these bills and bring all those ideas to the table. There would be a lot of–a lot more constructive criticism, a lot more great ideas to be able to strengthen Bill 26, to be able to give it–and we've used that word many times–more bite, more effectiveness.

      But ultimately, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it's about creating that independence of these offices, that non-partisanship, that trust because Manitobans–not–and not just MLAs here in the Chamber on both sides, all sides of this House, but Manitobans in general have to be able to trust the process of which gov­ern­ment is held to account, of which gov­ern­ment functions, and the officers that make that function, or play a role in that function of gov­ern­ment.

      So it's very im­por­tant that they be able to have that trust and that faith, and by them doing this, this is some­thing they can kind of work towards, and to be able to say well, yes, these offices–the Chief Electoral Officer, the Clerk's Office, the Ombudsman's office, the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner–I truly have faith that those organi­zations are now non-partisan, that those organi­zations are truly not going to be influenced–whether it be by gov­ern­ment or whether it be by op­posi­tion or other members of the Chamber or members just in large–that they truly have an in­de­pen­dence to them.

      While we are–we're very support of maintaining and furthering the in­de­pen­dent nature of the Assembly. It's very im­por­tant that these positions maintain that non-partisanship, including their ap­point­ments, and being able to, kind of, have gov­ern­ment not say and not–or even the perception of being able to say we influenced a decision that was made within those offices of the Assembly, within the conflict 'minster', Attorney General (Mr. Goertzen) and those kind of things, and we have those–an in­de­pen­dence. Not just to say we have it, but actually have an in­de­pen­dence in that structure.

      In­de­pen­dence is a key thing to maintain that trust from gov­ern­ment, and maintain that trust of Manitobans. And albeit, I mean, there's, you know, a number of politicians, MLAs elected, whether it be–whichever may stand from to represent their con­stit­uents, to represent Manitobans here in the Chamber, but there's that in­de­pen­dence that needs to be main­tained. And it goes across all of those–all those bodies, and all of those officers.

      The Advocate for Children and Youth, for example, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it's an in­de­pen­dent office of the Manitoba Legis­lative Assembly. The Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth is em­power­ed by legis­lation to advise children, youth and young adults of their rights and services which should be available to them.

      And I'm sure every member of this Chamber has had a con­stit­uent or a family or a group of individuals or an organi­zation that has come forward with a concern, when it comes time to the advocacy for children and youth in your riding, in your family, in wherever it may be across Manitoba. And that–those young voices need to be heard, Mr. Deputy Speaker. And it's very imperative that those young voices have that strong advocacy outside of influence of gov­ern­ment, outside of influence of organi­zations or people in a position of power. So the Advocate for Children and Youth does that.

* (16:40)

      They also have the respon­si­bility to raise the issues with the gov­ern­ment on behalf of the province's children and to advise the gov­ern­ment on issues of areas and concerns. But it has to be some­thing that the gov­ern­ment actually takes and uses that–those ques­tions and those concerns to develop and draft policy to better the lives of children and youth here in Manitoba, not just create this organi­zation and have this body created to be able to say, well, we have it there, we've checked that box, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It has to actually have that ability and that organi­zation. And the advocacy office needs to be able to say that, yes, you know, this–these are real concerns, it's going to help develop and draft that policy and it will–we want to see that policy imple­mented because it is the best thing for children and youth here in Manitoba.

      So it can't just be kind of a figurehead organi­zation, a figurehead body. So those organi­zations have to be able to bring forth their concerns and bring forth their policy develops and their sug­ges­tions and have them taken and drafted and developed to actually come out with a great idea. And let's take all those good ideas and come out with some­thing great, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      The Advocate for Children and Youth, they also conduct research on issues affecting Manitoba's young people. They monitor, they analyze and they publicly report on the compliance of public systems and service providers with recom­men­dations the Advocate for Children and Youth makes for im­proving services for young people in Manitoba.

      And that just reinforces the comments I just made, Mr. Deputy Speaker, about when the organi­zation and the advocacy office brings forth those ideas, they have to be developed, they have to be nurtured and they have to be put into real-world applications, not just, like I said, not just a box to check to say, yes, we've consulted with, we've taken the report from the advocacy office. Let's actually look at those sug­ges­tions, look at those recom­men­dations and let's move that into real policy dev­elop­ment and say, this is what–truly what we want to do.

      Just a few months ago, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Manitoba advocate said to work–said the work to implement dozens of recom­men­dations to protect this province's youngest people has ground to a near halt. And that's just reaffirms the comments I'm making about being able to–let's take those recom­men­dations, let's take those sug­ges­tions, let's take those ideas and implement them into real-world situations, not just check the box, but actually go and do that work because those recom­men­dations are coming from somewhere.

      Nobody's just sitting around a table and drafting recom­men­dations out of nowhere, out of thin air. They come from real-world situations, and real situa­tions of young people in here, Manitoba, and situations that they've had to live through, they've had to endure. So why not take those sug­ges­tions and take those situations that have developed?

      And there's a number of them, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I'm sure every member across this whole Chamber doesn't know every situation, doesn't know every example, but we've all heard some. And we've all heard different versions of it, we've all heard dif­ferent aspects. Maybe somebody's heard some­thing I've never heard before and vice versa. And we need to be able to take those situations and bring those to the advocacy office and have that ap­point­ment brought forward and have those ideas brought forward in a truly in­de­pen­dent way.

      And by way of doing this and having these ap­point­ments now done in this way will help to do that, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It'll help to raise those ideas without fear of retribution because of who may be in a decision-making role, whether it be in gov­ern­ment or whether it be in a position of power in an organi­zation. It has to have that in­de­pen­dence and people have to be able to feel that comfort to raise their voice and to bring their ideas forward. And it's for the betterment of all youth.

      We've all said and I've said this many times, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is my goal for my children is to be smarter than me, for them not to have to ex­per­ience some of the hardships that I have endured, that my parents and my grandparents have endured. So that means we've taken and we've helped without being called a formal child advocacy office. Your families are child advocacy offices. Your child are family adequacy organi­zations because you know and you want to speak for the betterment of children in your com­mu­nity, children in Manitoba.

      So let's bring those ideas forward. Let's all share those ideas across all party lines and be able to bring those ideas forward and have, in this forum, to tell the child advocacy office, to be able to say this is the organi­zation that's going to come, totally in­de­pen­dent of gov­ern­ment, totally in­de­pen­dent of any party, totally in­de­pen­dent of any organi­zation so they could truly speak their mind and maybe raise the concerns and share the stories that nobody wants to talk about in some situations, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      And that's im­por­tant, to be able to maintain that in­de­pen­dence.

      The Auditor General is another organi­zation and another member of the Assembly that–the Auditor General Act esta­blished the Auditor General as an Officer of the Manitoba Legis­lative Assembly to provide the Assembly with in­de­pen­dent infor­ma­tion, advice and assurance. And, again, there's that word–in­de­pen­dence–to be able to bring forward those ideas. And this office examines and reports on how well the gov­ern­ment accounts for the resources entrusted to it and how well it manages its operations.

      And that's an im­por­tant role, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to be able to say to gov­ern­ment, and it's some­thing that's not defined by party lines. It's one thing for a member of our caucus to be able to get up there and criticize gov­ern­ment, how they're 'expenditing', you know. If we were there, we would do it this way; you're doing it this way, and we'll agree to disagree sometimes on things, but we'll–and ultimately, sometimes, we'll just–ultimately just disagree. So, to be able to have the Auditor General's in­de­pen­dent office be able to do that and hold the gov­ern­ment to account.

      As a legis­lative auditor, the Auditor General provides the Legis­lative Assembly with financial state­ments, audits and project audits. The Auditor General examines and audits financial statements in­cluded in the Province's Public Accounts and any other statements that the Minister of Finance presents for audits.

      And, again, that criticism and that report that comes out of the Auditor General's office needs to be adhered to. It needs to always have that in­de­pen­dence.

      So when we look at Bill 26 being able to now have these organi­zations appointed and staffed in a neutral–in a more neutral way and a more in­de­pen­dent way, that's a step in the right direction, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      Also, the Auditor General can examine the opera­tion of any gov­ern­ment organi­zation or the use of public money by any recipient of that money called project audits. Supported by a staff of more than 55  individuals the Auditor General serves the Legislative Assembly and, in turn, all Manitobans.

      Mr. Deputy Speaker, a staff of 55, in some places it may seem like a lot; in some places it may seem like not enough. But it's imperative that when we're hold­ing the gov­ern­ment to account and especially with gov­ern­ment finances and the function of gov­ern­ment, that this organi­zation is properly staffed and properly–and we look at retention or recruitment of individuals to work in this organi­zation.

      We know many organi­zations where there's a lot of good people. There's a lot of good people that may come into our organi­zation but, for whatever reason, they may not feel ap­pre­ciated. Whether it be just that the environ­ment or whether it be the financial ap­pre­cia­tion to be able to say, but it's im­por­tant, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that the Auditor General's office and their 55-plus staff–we need to keep that properly resourced. We need to keep that organi­zation properly staffed. And it shouldn't be–there shouldn't be, if the Auditor General has an opinion that's raised of gov­ern­ment, there shouldn't be retribution to the staff. There shouldn't be retribution to the office to say well, you know what? Fifty-five people–that seems like a lot; let's cut that down to 40 just so we can try and avoid some kind of account­ability. And that's not the way the organi­zation should work.

      The Chief Electoral Officer, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is another role that's very im­por­tant. We're going to see that today. We're going to see those organi­zations and the Chief Electoral Officer conduct work today. So, that's ongoing work on a regular basis. You know, to some Manitobans that we may think, you know, every four years we'll have an election or, in this case–the last case–maybe three years and we have an election. And that's the only time we talk about electoral officer, you know, is a little window before elections, whether it be six weeks, two months, before elections.

      And that's the only time you see the electoral officer, or you hear about the word electoral officer. But that job is imperative year round, every day, to be able to look forward to what's going to happen. We debated diligently just the other day about vote counting and being able to improve that system. So, in that system the Chief Electoral Officer also plays a key role in that system, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to be able to make things more efficient.

      So Bill 26 can hopefully go a ways to be able to improve the efficiency of that office, to improve the  in­de­pen­dence of that office, because, truly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in prov­incial election time it should be nothing but in­de­pen­dence. There shouldn't be any side dictating how the election is run. There shouldn't be any side having influence on how the election is run or strongly hinting or strongly recommending how the electoral process works. It should be truly in­de­pen­dent. And by appointing a Chief Electoral Officer in a manner that's not just perception of in­de­pen­dence, but actual in­de­pen­dence, is imperative.

* (16:50)

      And it's imperative so that Manitobans have that trust in that system to be able to say, you know, that's a truly in­de­pen­dent process that's going there. They're not influenced by the PCs, by the NDP, by the Liberal Party; they're not influenced by anybody.

      It's truly an in­de­pen­dent organi­zation, and the Chief Electoral Officer is the–is a paramount and a key role in the in­de­pen­dence and the truly non-partisanship of that organi­zation. And of course, the–it reports ultimately to the Legis­lative Assembly of Manitoba, and the CEO is imperative that they're not–that they're non-partisan.

      And, of course, they don't get to vote in election. Albeit you may think, you know, my one vote doesn't matter, but Mr. Deputy Speaker, that's–time and time again, I mean, that's–and I think that's a common theme between our party and, I'm sure, the PC Party also: get out to vote. It's imperative that Manitobans get out to vote, and that's some­thing that we strongly encourage.

      We strongly encourage all Manitobans to get out and vote. Whether or not they vote for an individual, or a group, or, you know, if they don't–may not vote for you if you're knocking on their door, it's im­perative that they vote and that they partici­pate in the demo­cratic process, because we can't take that for granted.

      But again, if you're going to ask somebody, no matter how you vote as long as you vote, I want to ensure you, though, that that process is done fairly, is done equitably, and is done in a non-partisan and in­de­pen­dent way. And having the Chief Electoral Officer be the one to say, I'm truly in­de­pen­dent, I'm truly non-partisan, that then puts faith in that Manitoban to be able to say yes, I believe in that pro­cess; yes, I can get out there and do that.

      So, again, that's–and that's just–and maybe I'm actually speaking to a role that the Chief Electoral Officer may take. You know, 'provoting' those voting op­por­tun­ities to all voters. You know, educating voters about the electoral process.

      Like I said, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that's a job that doesn't just happen six weeks before elections. It doesn't just happen two months before an election. That's some­thing that's imperative all year round, 365  days a year. I don't want to say 24-7 because, obviously, the Chief Electoral Officer needs to have some time off, too, but it's a lifestyle that they promote the electoral process.

      So, it's very im­por­tant to maintain that in­de­pen­dence.

      So, they–but they also work with parties. They work with the NDP. They work with the Conservative Party. They work with the Liberal Party to be able to say, you know, we're going to do this in a proper way.

      So that Chief Electoral Officer has that in­de­pen­dence. And sometimes that's difficult, Mr. Deputy Speaker, if an organi­zation or a person in a role such as this may not want to be able to say, hey, I have to criticize what–you can't do this. You know, you're not able to do this.

      Sometimes that's a difficult thing, you know, for a little bit of inti­mida­tion factor, and maybe that person may not feel that they can actually do that. But  by organizing this structure, and having a Chief Electoral Officer appointed in­de­pen­dently via this bill, that enables that to happen.

      And I'm sure there's been a number of times where members opposite, members on this side, have had con­ver­sa­tions with the Chief Electoral Officer or the electoral officer in your riding or polling station, to be able to have that open com­muni­cation, to be able to say, you know, I'm not here so you can tell me what I want to hear. I'm here because I want you to tell me exactly how this system's supposed to work.

      And if they truly feel there's no fear of retribution and they have that in­de­pen­dence, then they can ac­tual­ly say what they want to say, and that's an im­por­tant part to the demo­cratic process, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      We've heard a few speakers now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, speak about the Clerk, the Clerk of the Assembly.

      And the Clerk of the Legis­lative Assembly is a senior, permanent employee of the Legislature. They're respon­si­ble to the Legis­lative Assembly through the speak for maintaining records of the Assembly, and for the custody of the legis­lative docu­ments, like the Order Paper, votes and proceedings, debates proceedings, Hansard, for example. The Clerk also serves as manager of the non-political staff of the Legislature based here in the Legis­lative Building.

      The Clerk provides advice and assist­ance relating to the parlia­mentary procedure to the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, the deputy chairperson, com­mit­tee chairpersons, and to all MLAs, Mr. Deputy Speaker. They answer questions, they provide clari­fi­ca­tion respecting the rules of the House, and sometimes that's a difficult con­ver­sa­tion to have.

      I'm sure members on all sides of this Chamber have had their–that look from the Clerk to say, hey, that's–you're not supposed to do that. They may not–they may do that through the Speaker, but they'll–I can tell sometimes when we've made comments and we've been, perhaps, out of line or out of order, the Clerk's head has popped up, and then the Speaker turns around, and there we go, you know, order, order, is kind of how that went.

      And I respect, I have absolute respect for the Clerk of the Assembly to be able to hold all of us to account because that's im­por­tant too. And I have great respect for the work they do there.

      And I know I personally would never be able to do that work because it's just some­thing that's so dif­ficult to be able to do. There's so many moving parts through­out the day to be able to say that, you know what, and I truly don't understand how the clerks and the desks of the clerks can stay sue–throw–so calm through some of this–some of these–maybe they'll call them shenanigans, whatever they want to refer to that sometimes, but at the same time, it's with great respect that the Clerk's office conducts their busi­ness to all members here in the Chamber, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      And that's some­thing that takes great skill. That's some­thing that takes–I have great aggravation for that position. But again, that's based on the in­de­pen­dence. The Clerk's office and the Clerk here in the Assembly has to be able to have that freedom to say, hey, I'm going to call you to order no matter who you are, no matter which con­stit­uency you represent, whether you're a minister or you're an op­posi­tion MLA or a backbench MLA or an in­de­pen­dent MLA, to be able to say that, you know what, I have to call you to order on this thing; what you did was either not right or I just want to correct it. And there's always constructive criticism and there's always comments after and they're very approachable.

      The clerks here are very approachable to be able to say, you know what, I have a question, I have a comment, especially when we've had–and I'm sure members opposite, some were elected for the first time in 2016, some of us were elected for the first time in 2019, coming into this place and having a lot of questions. And you can rely on your colleagues for some answers, but you can also rely on the clerks for those answers. So that takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of dedi­cation.

      So every time, and if you see that–if you see any of the clerks in the hallway: please, always good morning, good afternoon, good evening, have a great day. Because, you know what, they've earned that. They've earned that right to be able to have that feeling of accom­plish­ment, that feeling of ap­pre­cia­tion for what they do. And sometimes it gets very difficult.

      The Clerk also directs the activities of the office of the Clerk, the Deputy Clerk, office manager, secretary and other offices of the Assembly including the com­mit­tees, Hansard, Journal Branch, Members' Allowances Office, the Visitors Services Program for the Legis­lative Assembly. The Clerk is also the secretary to the Legislative Assembly Manage­ment Com­mis­sion, the program administrator for the Legis­lative Assembly Internship Program and is a secretary for all the Manitoba branch of the Commonwealth Parlia­mentary Association.

      Now, that's a pretty good job resume if you want to ever put that out there and you want to say, this is my duties. For–as an MLA, you list certain duties you–and those of us that are pro­fes­sionals before we got here in whatever organi­zations or whatever groups you came, if you start doing your kind of duties and your experiences, for the Clerk to be able to list those things as experiences, that's in­cred­ible, to be able to do that kind of work.

      In addition, it is their responsibility for recording and maintaining the official docu­ments of the Assembly and its com­mit­tees, and for admin­is­tra­tive service for the MLAs. And again, that's just goes down in history, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

      So that office of the Clerk of the Assembly is imperative to be able to have those correct, have those right. Many of us have gone back and looked at either your own comments in Hansard or debates in Hansard, to be able to say that, and there's a lot of what you would see as kind of behind-the-scenes work that you really don't see in there. But really, if you wanted to go through a lot of the records of Manitoba legislators through­out the years and the decades, there's a lot of unforeseen–unseen work in there that's due to the clerks and being able to keep that in­de­pen­dence.

      And, of course, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner. And I think most would agree that a lot of us–and I would say all of us–are very decent to be able to deal with. And I could say his name, Mr. Jeffrey Schnoor, correct? I could say Mr. Jeffrey Schnoor's name?

      So, my first con­ver­sa­tion with Jeffrey Schnoor when I first got elected was very pleasant. And he made it very clear, very pleasant but also very pro­fes­sional, about maintaining the independence, main­taining the, you know what, this–and it was a con­ver­sa­tion of, I mean, I'm not going to get into details of my specific con­ver­sa­tion with him, but it was very pleasant and–[interjection]–I don't have $31 million, but I won't go there–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

Mr. Bushie: But to be able to have that con­ver­sa­tion, and there is a true sense of that in­de­pen­dence. And the Conflict of Interest Com­mis­sioner is very im­por­tant to the function of gov­ern­ment, to the function of Manitoba, to be able to say that whether you're gov­ern­ment, whether you're op­posi­tion MLAs, but more im­por­tantly when you're gov­ern­ment, that you're making decisions that are based in the best interests of Manitobans–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

      When this matter is again before the House, the hon­our­able member for Keewatinook (Mr. Bushie) will have five minutes remaining.

      The hour being 5 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.


 


LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, March 22, 2022

CONTENTS


Vol. 27b

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Introduction of Bills

Bill 36–The Manitoba Hydro Amendment and Public Utilities Board Amendment Act

Friesen  925

Bill 219–The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act (Leave for Miscarriage or Stillbirth)

Lathlin  925

Committee Reports

Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development

Third Report

Isleifson  925

Ministerial Statements

Bangladesh Independence Day

A. Smith  926

Brar 927

Lamoureux  927

Members' Statements

Robert T. Kristjanson

Johnson  928

Amy Jackson

Lathlin  928

John Hendrickson

Wowchuk  928

Mennonite Central Committee

Wiebe  929

Tyndall Community Market

Lamoureux  929

Oral Questions

Surgical and Diagnostic Services

Kinew   930

Stefanson  930

WPS Headquarters Construction

Kinew   931

Stefanson  931

WPS Headquarters Construction

Fontaine  932

Goertzen  933

PC Party Leadership Campaign

Fontaine  933

Goertzen  933

Adults with Intellectual Disabilities

Naylor 933

Squires 934

Employment and Income Assistance Recipients

B. Smith  934

Squires 935

Parents Grieving Miscarriage or Stillbirth

Lathlin  936

Helwer 936

Manitoba's Pandemic Response

Lamont 936

Helwer 936

Ukrainian Refugees

Lamoureux  937

Reyes 937

Cosmetic Pesticide Use

Martin  937

Wharton  937

Post-Secondary Education

Moses 938

Reyes 938

Manitoba Public Insurance

Sandhu  939

Goertzen  939

Petitions

Foot-Care Services

Kinew   939

Bushie  939

Abortion Services

Fontaine  940

Cochlear Implant Program

Gerrard  940

Diagnostic Testing Accessibility

Maloway  941

Foot-Care Services

Moses 941

Eating Disorders Awareness Week

Naylor 942

Foot-Care Services

Wiebe  942

ORDERS OF THE DAY

(Continued)

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Second Readings

Bill 26–The Officers of the Assembly Act (Various Acts Amended)

Goertzen  943

Questions

Fontaine  945

Goertzen  945

Lamoureux  945

Moses 947

Debate

Fontaine  948

Wishart 953

Moses 954

Gerrard  959

Bushie  959