LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA
Thursday, April 11, 2019
Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.
Please be seated.
The honourable Official Opposition House Leader?
House Business
Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): On House business, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: On House business.
Ms. Fontaine: Before this morning's business, I just want to say that pursuant to rule 33(9), I am announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for The Pas (Ms. Lathlin). The title of the resolution is Mental Health Supports Needed for Youth in Manitoba's North.
Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for The Pas. The title of the resolution is Mental Health Supports Needed for Youth in Manitoba's North.
Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): We'd like to resume debate on Bill 228.
Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will resume second reading debate on Bill 228.
Madam Speaker: So I will call Bill 228, The Sikh Heritage Month Act, standing in the name of the honourable member for Southdale, who has nine minutes remaining.
Mr. Andrew Smith (Southdale): It is an honour to rise here today in the Legislative Assembly to talk about the very good work that the Sikh community has done not only here in the city of Winnipeg, here in the province and, of course, right across Canada.
Sat Sri Akal. [Truth is God.]
And welcome to the Legislative Assembly.
I want to, of course, thank Sikh heritage month for their organization of the event that we had here at the Legislative Assembly on April 1st. They did an amazing job highlighting the history of the Sikh community here in Manitoba. I know it's quite a rich history and it goes back almost 100 years, as I understand. So it's quite impressive to see the community here today and the growth that has happened in the community over the last century or so.
You know, Madam Speaker, I know on April 1st, our Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mrs. Cox) had the honour of proclaiming the month of April a Sikh heritage month.
And I know that was quite an honour and it's one of the–it’s the first time that's ever happened for the Sikh community, and I think that’s great to see that, that the Sikh community has grown so significantly in our province and that they've continued to contribute and will continue to contribute to our Canadian society.
I know we are a country and a province built on immigration, and I know the Sikh community plays a very vital role in our cultural pluralism in Manitoba.
I know that in–about three–well, five years ago, I say now I had a good opportunity to visit Punjab and I've been up to Amritsar. I saw the Golden Temple and it was a very interesting experience and humbling experience for me. I got to visit it twice. The first time I visited, of course, was at night, and you know the sun, or rather the moon was in full and it was reflecting off the water surrounding the Golden Temple, and I thought that was a very peaceful experience. And I don't think that too many people from Winnipeg have had a chance to do that. I know some folks from the Sikh community that maybe were born in Winnipeg might not have had a chance to see the Golden Temple, so I felt very honoured and privileged to do that and I know that it's a world-wide attraction.
And the following day I had the opportunity to visit the Wagah border, which is the border on India and Pakistan, and that was an interesting experience as well, seeing this military demonstration on each side, you know; two countries that can demonstrate a civility at the border where they have tourists come and watch on a daily basis the amazing culturals and the amazing military demonstration that each side was able to organize.
So I do appreciate that opportunity and I know many folks in the Sikh community are looking forward to this month, and I know on the 14th there is a big celebration for Vaisakhi and I really look forward to that, I know I'll be there.
A number of my colleagues here in the Legislative Assembly will be attending that event and we want to–I look forward to seeing all the good people from the Sikh community at the Mollard temple, and I do look forward to engaging further with him at that point.
So, Madam Speaker, I know that before the House today we have the Bill 228 and we have–I know that Bill 229 was introduced by the member from Maples, so there's two bills looking to recognize Sikh heritage month, and so I do–I know I thank both members for introducing that.
I would be curious to hear the member for Maples and what he has to say about Sikh heritage month. I know he's a member of the Sikh community himself, and I know that he's very involved in his community and I do look forward to seeing and hearing what he has to say regarding the Sikh heritage month bill and the one that he's introduced. And just curious if the NDP and the member from Maples have had a chance to discuss these two bills and perhaps a way to work together to recognize the good work that the community has done here in Manitoba and here in Winnipeg.
So I do thank the member from Maples for taking that initiative and introducing his own bill on Sikh heritage month as well.
I know back when I was first elected I introduced a resolution and it was honouring Indo‑Manitoban Heritage Week and that was a week that falls in the–on August 15th, that week, of course, that's India Independence Day but it's also the week that falls in with–in line with Folklorama, which I think is very suiting and I recognize all the good contributions that the Indo community on a whole has contributed to our province, Madam Speaker.
And I know we had a good turnout that day for the resolution and the reading of the resolution, and I thought it was very heartwarming to see that the Legislative Assembly came together and supported Indo Manitobans on a whole in this province.
And I know that today is no exception and I do appreciate everyone coming here, and I see the galleries filling up as I speak, and that's always good to see, everyone from different parts of the community engaging in the political process, so I do thank everyone for coming out this morning, Madam Speaker.
I know with Indo heritage–Indo-Manitoban Heritage Week–excuse me–being in line with India Independence Day, I would say, you know, up to a decade ago most Canadians didn't even know what India Independence Day was. Now, I think it's part of our common vernacular, and I know a lot of Canadians have become more educated about the Indo community in general and of course other communities that have–now call Canada and Manitoba home.
It is not lost on us that we're becoming much more diverse as a–as our society and population continues to grow. I know Manitoba's population is growing quite significantly and a lot has to do with our Provincial Nominee Program bringing people in from all parts of the world to come here and not only work in this province–I mean that's the idea of the Provincial Nominee Program–but then they bring with them their families and, of course, this cultural pluralism that we so appreciate here in the province and just the month of August itself is indicative of our celebration of different cultures through Folklorama.
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And we see the–some forty-some pavilions–depending on the year, of course–where almost, I would say almost all, but as many as possible cultures that represent here in Manitoba are celebrating. I try to make it to every single pavilion. I know that's not always possible, but come the end of that two-week period, I do feel like I'm a little bit–I'm very cultured and, of course, very full and I don't think I want to eat too much more after that two weeks of indulgence. But I do very much enjoy it.
I know a few of my colleagues here do the same thing, and we always appreciate any kind of a cultural celebration because, on this side of the House, we understand that that is what Manitoba and Canada on the whole was built on, was this cultural pluralism that we've come to appreciate today and can understand that that actually brings a great deal of strength to not only our social fabric, but economically and as well other spinoffs to that.
So I do thank the–again, I want to thank both members of–for bringing bills forward on Sikh heritage month. I do hope that everyone's able to negotiate and, perhaps, co-operate on that end and decide which bill is to be passed and which bill is to be discussed.
But I know that the member from Maples here has had an opportunity to bring it forward and I do thank him for that and I know that he is, like I said, at a number of events that I go to. And I have the gurdwara that's just outside of my community, outside my riding, and it's on Archibald so I attend there regularly. And when I do go out into some of the more northern parts of the city, I do see the member from Maples quite often out and about and I know he's quite involved.
So thank you so much, and he–I know the member for Maples is, as far as I know, the only Sikh member from the Legislative Assembly here in the province right now. So I know it is an honour to have him here and his contributions to our province are very commendable. So, again, thank you to the member for Maples, and I thank you very much for introducing your bill as well.
Madam Speaker, I, again, would like to say on behalf of our caucus here that we very much appreciate the good work that the Sikh community has done here in the province. As I continue to engage with the community–and I've developed a lot of long-term friendships there; actually, when I got married in just about two years ago, a friend of mine from the Sikh community hosted a wedding celebration for me.
And it was in very much the Sikh tradition and Punjab tradition, so it was very much an honour to be an honorary Sikh that evening. I know we had about 30, 40 people in my friend's basement, as crammed in as best we could, and I felt very much honoured. And I know that in a Sikh–in the Punjab tradition the weddings typically can go on for weeks on end; unfortunately, mine was only a few hours. But I do appreciate that and thank the Sikh community for including me–
Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.
Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh. [The Khalsa belongs to God, Victory belongs to God.]
It's my honour, Madam Speaker, to rise in this House to use those words from the community here that is used in ceremony at the gurdwara and to stand in proud support of Bill 228.
It is, indeed, my honour to stand very firmly with the community in asking and pleading and begging for members here to stand united, to not allow political and partisan divisions to cloud over what is otherwise a very clear and a very well-supported bill that's been brought forward here. And I say that because, now, this is, I think, at least the third time now that members of the Sikh heritage committee have come to the Legislature.
Not to say that other community groups and interested parties don't attend the Legislature, but I think this may be the first time I've seen the gallery only get bigger and bigger and bigger in terms of the number of people who are coming to join us every time we debate this bill. And I think it shows just how important this bill is to the community that they're willing to take their time to come here to show that support and, again, in a non-partisan way to bring this bill forward.
We do think that there is a reason that this needs to come forward now, and I–there is a very specific reason that we have now called this bill forward twice in private members' time and are asking members of the government to stand with us.
Of course, April is the month that we are talking about here with regards to Sikh heritage month. But within the month of April we are also now getting to the point where it–there is an additional significance in that, of course, we know this weekend we are going to be celebrating within the community.
And, you know, I think the member opposite mentioned that he's going to be out at Vaisakhi. He's going to be celebrating with the community. Wouldn't it be great if we could go to the community this Sunday and we could say we passed this bill unanimously as a Legislature? We moved it forward. We want to talk about this and we want to celebrate your community and your contributions to this province, and I think that's something that every member of this Chamber would be happy to do. I know I am very much looking forward to being able to do that.
So I–again, I just ask that the members of the government stand with us. Again, if there's any confusion, this is the bill that was presented to us, or asked for us to present by the members of the Sikh heritage group. They are asking us to, you know, as the opposition party–but it's really not the, you know, again, a partisan thing. It is just that we have been asked to bring this forward.
So, again, we're just doing this on behalf of them. There's no confusion that this is the bill they're asking us to support, not others that are before the Legislature. And, in fact, not only is the work being done here in the Legislature and coming to support this. Again, we had a great opportunity in the rotunda the other day. Now, twice they've come to the gallery, but they've also now brought over 600 names on a petition that they've gathered from the community that they're now asking us to support and to show our support for that request that they've come to us.
So thank you very much to the members of the community.
You know, I think it is important, Madam Speaker, that we in this House not only take time to, you know, to have proclamations, other ways that we can show the community that we support them, but I think there's also something to be said for when it's brought forward and–as a piece of legislation as it's being done here. And that's really one of the main things that we have been trying to do as an opposition caucus, is make sure that we can show the community that we not only support them in words, but we can show them, as legislators, that we support them in action. It's all about deliverables.
And I remember back when I was first elected. First few years, there was a discussion in the Legislature at that time in legislatures across this country, because in the province of Quebec they were talking about the display of religious symbols, and at that time that was something that caught my eye. As somebody–a man of faith and somebody who respects those of different faiths and other faiths, I know how important that is to other cultures and other faiths, that I wanted to do something about that.
So here in this Legislature I was proud to bring forward a PMR at that time to talk about that issue and to protect that here in Manitoba, that no matter if you're a Sikh or if you're other faith, that if you want to display in any way your affiliation or your support of a faith, that you would be able to do that.
Now, I mention this, Madam Speaker, because once again this discussion is coming back again from debate that's happening in Quebec, and I just want to make it absolutely clear here on this side of the House that we stand with religious freedom at every turn and that we stand with the Sikh community and others who say that faith and religious communities are an important part of our province and that we respect and appreciate their contributions at every turn and we will stand with them in that debate, as well.
So, as I said, it's important to talk about what those deliverables can be; this is a very clear example of where we can stand up–an up-and-down vote–and decide if we support this and, as I said, I imagine, if given the chance, we would be able to do that this morning.
As I said, I do come from my own faith community. I am Mennonite and I often like to make the connection between the Mennonite people and the Sikh people, which I think I'd probably get a few head scratches maybe in the Chamber here today or in the gallery, because there is–there are some fundamental differences. But I–there is actually a lot more in common than you might think. So both faiths are, you know, 500 years old-ish. We all–we both have our own language, our own specific area or community that we came from, very much egalitarian communities.
We see a lot of commonality there, and we both have faiths that we cherish and that is the foundation. Obviously, there's a lot of cultural aspects that grow out of that but the faith is the key factor.
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Now, the biggest difference is is that in the Mennonite community, when faced with oppression or the tyranny of another faith or of another power group, well, we just run. And that's we've done a few times as a Mennonite people: we just run. We're pacifists. A little bit different in the Sikh faith–they stood up, they're proud warriors, they stood firm for who they are and for what they believe in and so I have a lot of respect for that. Again, not my way, but I do have respect for that.
And I did have an opportunity to travel to India as well and I had the opportunity to be at the Golden Temple. If you have an opportunity to talk to anybody from the Sikh faith and you say, well, I was in Amritsar and I went to the Golden Temple, the first thing they'll say to you is: wasn't that beautiful, wasn't it peaceful there, wasn't it completely serene?
And I cannot agree more. It was just an amazing place in the busy, bustling city of Amritsar. You know, it's just–it is absolute chaos everywhere in that city. And when you walk through those doors, it's an unbelievable feeling.
So I appreciated that part of it, but what I can tell you is I, actually–the part I appreciated most about the experience in the Golden Temple was the way that I was welcomed in. And I was welcomed in there and more importantly–or just as importantly I would say, is when I was in the small village of Veroke and I went to the local gurdwara there in the middle of–you know, I don't want to say in the middle of nowhere, Madam Speaker, but it was–it's not a big centre of population in India.
And I can't imagine how many white guys from Canada walk through the doors of that gurdwara and sit down and partake in the religious ceremony. But I did that. And I did that and I was completely welcomed and I was completely brought in by that community and shown that they respected me and welcomed me.
Well, Madam Speaker, this is our opportunity to show that same support for the Sikh community and show that same attitude towards them as they come to our country, they contribute to our society, they make us stronger as Canadians.
And I think this is a way that we can come together, we can show that and we can show that we are stronger when we are together, we're stronger when we show that we will stand with one another and just appreciate how the Sikh faith and the Sikh culture has built our province, has made us stronger. They are nation builders.
Madam Speaker, we want to stand with them. We want to stand with them as a Legislature. I ask other members to please support this.
Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): It's an honour to rise and speak on Bill 228, Celebrating Sikh Heritage Month. And you can tell that it's a topic that many people are passionate about, from all sides of the House, and even independent members are bringing forward ideas in celebrating Sikh heritage month, Madam Speaker. And I think it's just–it's a wonderful thing.
My love for the Sikh community here in Manitoba, that's no secret; it's something that I have been developing since I was just a young girl. My father has always taught me to be very, very proud of my community and we often joke about how I was actually raised in the Sikh community and in the Filipino community.
All of my friends, all of my family, they're made up of the Sikh community, Madam Speaker. And so it is–it's an honour to stand here today and be able to speak about so many of them.
The Sikh community here in Manitoba and throughout the country of Canada is incredibly welcoming. You know, I'm bragging a little bit here, Madam Speaker, but about two years ago the Sikh Motorcycle Club of Ontario actually made me an honorary member when they rode through Manitoba and so I have it on the back of my leather jacket and I get to ride with them whenever they come through Winnipeg now and it is a true honour.
Winnipeg is home to many gurdwaras and Sikh temples and with the first temple in Canada going back as far as 1908. And I've been attending these with my father since I was just a very, very little girl and so I've grown up getting to know so many members of these gurdwaras.
And this month being the month of April, my father and I have decided to go to a gurdwara every single Sunday and so we've been enjoying that; we've gone to a couple so far and we got a couple more to go.
And, you know, April is just the perfect time of the year to be hosting Sikh heritage month because of Vaisakhi being celebrated and how it marks the birth of the Khalsa. I think Vaisakhi is this coming weekend, and I'm sure I'll be seeing many of the members, many of my colleagues out at Vaisakhi events. I think there's about four or five in my own calendar.
Madam Speaker, the Sikh community–and I think it's important to go back and this is why we're really honouring them today. The Sikh community believes in the teachings of equality, community, service and social justice. These characteristics are all practised and performed without any expectations of result or award. It's truly inspiring, and we need to be discussing ideas like bringing Sikh heritage into the school curriculum and educating people on the history of Sikhism.
I am proud that the federal government spearheaded this last month, ensuring that Sikh heritage was officially recognized from coast to coast to coast, and I've even more proud and thrilled that provinces, and our province here in Manitoba, is following so closely behind.
You know, Madam Speaker, I don't want to use all of my time today because I want to ensure that this bill can pass unanimously this morning.
So I'm going to cut my remarks there. But I would just want to say thank you to those who have joined us in the gallery today and thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you for the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew) for bringing forward this bill.
Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Rossmere): It is an honour to put some comments on the record this morning about the Sikh community and we add, potentially, now, another recognition of our–for our East Indian friends not only India Independence Day, not only Indo-Canadian heritage week, not only the first ever proclamation of Sikh heritage month by Minister Cox. But–
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Just a reminder to the member, that when referring to members it is by their title as a minister, so I would ask the member just to be careful with that and correct his statement.
Mr. Micklefield: My mistake, Madam Speaker. I apologize.
We're here to contemplate Sikh heritage month, one of two bills on the same topic, unusual that we would encounter that at the Legislature, and I wanted to discuss briefly this morning some elements of Sikh heritage.
So Sikhism is the newest of the five–what are often referred to as the five of the major world religions stemming back to the 16th century, the late 1500s. And I'll ask forgiveness in advance if I get any of these details wrong, but I hope that I'm getting the broad brush strokes correct.
Sikhism is built on the teachings of the 10 gurus, and it was the 1st guru who said famously that there are no Muslims, there are no Hindus; and he wasn't saying that there is no such thing. But he was saying is that we are all human beings and that is the focus, that is the emphasis that he wanted to promote.
And I think during that time there were many tensions, and he was saying that there's another way to see these things, namely, that we're all people and, certainly, I think everybody in this Chamber–I'm certain everybody in this Chamber would affirm that, yes, we are all human beings and we all should respect each other. We should all love each other. We should all honour each other.
Well, the first guru was the first of 10. There was a series of gurus who passed along this philosophy, this understanding. Sometimes the gurus, it was a hereditary transfer of their prominent position and other times not, that continued for a number of generations. But these gurus wrote what came to be known as the Sikh scriptures, and it is the eleventh guru; he's referred to as the culmination of the writings now collected in the Sikh scriptures.
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And something that I've been impacted by, as I have visited gurdwaras in Rossmere, is their great respect for those scriptures. In fact, it's my understanding that when scriptures from–when Sikh scriptures are brought to Canada, they actually charter aircrafts to do that and that's why they're so expensive.
One of the reasons is that you don't–you wouldn't just purchase a Sikh scripture and put it in your suitcase. That would be considered to be disrespectful. But the–when they are brought to a gurdwara, these are ornate. I don't even know if I should refer to them merely as a document because they are–there is something which of tremendous respect for the Sikh community would hold for the scriptures that they put on display. They're draped in blankets and cloths when they are set in a gurdwara, and I believe it's often the practice that there's a new cloth every single week and those are certainly very ornate, very beautiful pieces that you see.
So, as the Sikh religion gained prominence in India, that prominence centered around the Punjabi area. Of course, today we speak of India, but India didn't become a nation 'til 19–didn't gain independence, pardon me, until 1948, so the India that we think of in 2019 is quite different to the political contours of the subcontinent of India in former centuries.
But the Punjabi region is where Sikhism really developed and really gained a following and that's still true today. That's the location of the Golden Temple and that most Sikhs trace their own homeland to the Punjabi region, but that's not exclusive. There certainly are people from the Sikh faith who are not Punjabi, and that's my understanding that anybody could become Sikh if they wanted to.
I've been to India twice, Madam Speaker, and both occasions were wonderful, life-changing events. I must say that I love India, that I have great love for the Indian people, and that I have had to say no to many invitations for meals. I would even be just knocking on people's doors in Rossmere neighbourhoods and I've been invited in more than once for really a small meal.
I think that Sikh people, and I'm going to say East Indian people, have tremendous hospitality gifts, and I've been the recipient of that on many occasions, and I've had to sometimes turn down those offers, but I will acknowledge I haven't turned them down every time. And it's always been a privilege to be with my East Indian friends. Most of them are Sikhs.
There are about 25 million Sikhs worldwide and in Manitoba, about 10,000 people have identified themselves as Sikh, so I have some Sikh friends in my own neighbourhood. For a long time I would drive my son and his two friends, one of them was Sikh.
And it was interesting to–during one of the former elections, we had different political views in the car as we drove to school, and my son and his friends were having these great discussions, and I was driving and listening and I think that's–typifies, that is a little picture about the beauty of our country, that people can go to school together, people can play together, people can enjoy each other and appreciate each other even when there are differences. They don't have to be differences that divide us; they can unite us.
I've seen my colleagues from this Legislature from my own party become–make great friends with the Sikh community. I think particularly of my colleague from Southdale and St. Norbert, St. Paul's and others of us, we've all developed great friendships, and those are friendships I do believe that will continue beyond our time in politics.
I believe that many of my friends from India are lifelong friends, and, in fact, I have friends who come from India every year, they live in India, they come here to Manitoba every year, and every year we meet, and every year we share food together, and every year we enjoy each other's company.
A speech about the Sikh community would be incomplete if I didn't include the story of the time I wore a turban. I was offered to try on a turban, and I'd never done this before and I thought, well, sure. These were Sikh gentlemen who had offered this experience to me. And I was astounded at, first of all, how long a turban is, and then, secondly, how tightly it was wrapped around my head. So I was very appreciative for that cultural experience.
But for those who wear turbans out of devotion, it is a sign of devotion. I've sometimes wondered, why–what is the significance of a turban. And I learned–it was explained to me that that's a sign of devotion, that's a sign of commitment and dedication.
And so I think that it's important that in our country we preserve the ability of people to express their faith and to express their devotion to their faith. And so I think that it's helpful that we understand these things.
And in my children's own school there are many Sikh children, and some of them are beginning to display those signs of their own devotion to their faith. And I think that it's important that we cultivate that respect, that we cultivate that appreciation and that we show each other that although, yes, there are differences, they don’t ever need to be ultimate, that we are all human beings, and on that point we can all come together.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh. [The Khalsa belongs to God, Victory belongs to God.]
I welcome our community over here.
First of all, I want to clear the confusion why Bill 229 came in after Bill 228. Because I did not get the information in time, and even the organization members, this of all, we will let you know the next week. And in that case, I will not sure: it will be members' statements, it will be ministers' statements, and it will be resolution, and it will be end.
So I said, well, I should prepare something. So I prepared Bill 229, and also, as the same thing, Bill 228.
And most probably members know we are–Sukh Dhaliwal, MP, he already has gotten some bill past in Ottawa. And it's still waiting in the Senate, not in the upper committee. I cannot find the proper word at this point. But if that bill is passed, then whatever problem we have in Quebec, that will be solved. Maybe that's why members over there nod, in a rush to pass it. So also, with the passing this bill, we also should push for that bill is passed. So then it will be declared in whole Canada, not just in one province. Every province have to do one at a time, one at a time. So that will be a great achievement.
I would not take that much time because other members will like to speak, but I would like to say a few words about the Sikh religion. Maybe I can speed it up, and perhaps Hansard people will–may not understand because, first, I have an accent, and said: Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh. [The Khalsa belongs to God, Victory belongs to God.] They did not write it. That was about two years ago, when I have a member statement on April 11th, 2017. And at that time, I am asked the minister that this month should be–could be declared. And so, somehow, we are coming close.
And let me say in a–quickly. The Sikh religion emerged as a social movement to bring peace, unity, brotherhood, compassion and dignity of humans in any corner of the world. And although we say it's a religion–but I will say, it's a movement to have human rights, to stand for human rights.
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The two most important features of the Sikh religion are, first, human rights; and, second, women's equality.
The first Guru Nanak spread the message of human rights to everyone. He preached that rights to dignity of all human beings are the apex principle of mankind. Caste, class, status, sects, group and divisions are not human practices, and we must get rid of these divisive practices.
Women are equal to men. They deserve equal rights in every sphere of life. The Guru maintained the principle all along the emergence and establishment of the Sikh religion.
So, Madam Speaker, I wouldn't read my whole speech but I would say there are two important points: (1) in the Sikh religion, they eliminated the caste system; (2) they gave equal rights to the women. And how much as a society we have gone, I am not sure. Even still I think every member should push for it; even still in Golden Temple, women are not allowed to recite the Kirtan–they're called religious hymns. So I think still we have to go a long way but this is the first step, if we start from here, and I will let other members to have some time to speak on this issue.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh. [The Khalsa belongs to God, Victory belongs to God.]
Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): In 2011, when I was elected, part of the support that I got was from hundreds and hundreds of Punjabis–Sikh Punjabis, and part of the dream that I had was for me to be able to thank them, and I have tried doing that over the so many years that I am in the Legislature. And one of the most helpful would be Gurmeet, but the foremost is Mohinder Saran. I owe him.
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
I would just respectfully remind the member that we are not allowed to refer to members by their name but by their constituency, so just a caution to the member.
Mr. Marcelino: It was not really intended to say it in such a way that will violate our rules but the member from The Maples was among those who pushed me up. He was an inspiration for me, and the appreciation of the contributions of the Sikhs to our province and in fact, to our nation, are diverse and very pronounced, from their engagement in politics to their entry into businesses that are simply very labour intensive. Some own car washes, and some, gas bars, and I have friends who own tracts of land that they develop, so it's not really a community that's dependent on anybody else. They are very independent.
And the friendships that I have developed with some of my Punjabi friends, the Sikhs in Tyndall Park, have been accentuated by a lot, of course, visits. I visited the gurdwaras–the two gurdwaras–and I am very proud of the friendships that I have enjoyed with these friends, and I can tell you, Madam Speaker, that the Punjabis are extremely loyal friends and I thank them. I thank them a lot.
Madam Speaker: The next person–[interjection]
Point of Order
Madam Speaker: Okay, the honourable Opposition House Leader, on a point of order?
Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
I'm wondering if I could ask leave to go to a vote on Bill 228 right away.
Madam Speaker: Is there leave to call a vote on Bill 228 immediately?
Some Honourable Members: Agreed.
Some Honourable Members: No.
Madam Speaker: Leave has been denied.
And I would indicate to the member that that was not a point of order.
* * *
Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): It's disappointing that as we rise today and acknowledge and talk about the Sikh community, that there are members opposite that want to deny us that right or deny us that right and ability to share our experiences, to share our support for the Sikh community, to put on the record our comments.
So I find that very unfortunate, but contrary to where we're going this morning, especially in the terms–and if I listen carefully to a lot of my colleagues, and I know the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe) went to great lengths, Madam Speaker, to talk about the non-partisan nature of this–of Bill 228. And I accept his comments at face value, and I have read the bill and I've gauged members of the Sikh community and my colleagues. And it's clear that is where the desire comes from, it comes from a non-partisan point of view.
So it's a bit disappointing when members opposite want to cut off debate and want to cut off and deny other MLAs and other elected officials their solemn right to speak in support of these initiatives because that's really why we're here, is to put those comments of support on the record.
And I think even in today's climate, I think our ability and our words, Madam Speaker, are more important than ever. Again, I know the member from Concordia–and I've listened to everyone's speeches this morning and, obviously, the unanimous support that we are seeing with the effort to designate April as Sikh heritage month in Manitoba.
But I notice–and what caught my ear in the member for Concordia's comments was he made reference to Bill 21 in Quebec, Madam Speaker. And I think against that backdrop while in Quebec, while they're debating actually the limitation of freedom, the limitation of expression, the limitations of religion all in the name of secularism, I think it's very appropriate that we here in the Manitoba Legislature are actually talking, debating and, more importantly, in a non-partisan way, supporting the designation of April as Sikh heritage month.
I've followed–you know, we often think of issues south of the border when we talk about the limitations and the backlash that seems to be occurring against some groups in our society, whether it's the LBGTQ, whether it's Hispanics, whether it be Sikhs, whether it be many, many members of our community we often think, again, south of the border and sort of that Trump effect. But, unfortunately, it's occurring within our own borders, Madam Speaker.
I know the Canadian Civil Liberties Association has noted–and again, in reference to the member for Concordia’s reference to the Bill 21 in Quebec, and I'm quoting the Civil Liberties Association– that that bill effectively targets and discriminates against religious minorities including, in particular, these individuals: Muslims, Jews and Sikhs who wear religious symbol as part of their faith. End quote, Madam Speaker.
* (10:50)
As well, I know that the World Sikh Organization president, Mukhbir Singh, has noted–and again, I'm quoting, Madam Speaker: This ban, the ban being proposed in Quebec, using the notwithstanding clause, this ban will have a deeply negative impact on Sikhs in Quebec. The wearing of the turban and the Sikh articles of faith is not optional for Sikhs, and a ban of these articles of faith is, in effect, a ban on Sikhs in positions of authority.
He goes on to say that we are hopeful that politicians across Quebec and Canada will join with us, denouncing this deeply discriminatory legislation. And I urge all my colleagues today, when they rise and put some brief comments on the record in relation to Bill 228, and their support of Sikh heritage month, to use this as an opportunity to not only denounce what we are seeing in Quebec, that–sort of that veiled, and let's call a spade a spade, that veiled racism that we're seeing the rise of in Quebec, all again, in the name of secularism.
And so through our words, Madam Speaker, this morning, we collectively, and each and every one of us can rise in our place and not only can we, through our words, denounce and share the concerns of the Civil Liberties Association, the World Sikh Organization in terms of Bill 21. More importantly, we can lift up our Sikh brothers and sisters through, again, a non-partisan approach to this legislation.
I know when my colleague, the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mrs. Cox) designated, through proclamation, the month of April as Sikh heritage month, and I joined a number of our guests and a number of colleagues, again, across the floor, because this is a non-partisan issue, joining them in the rotunda. And it was an eye-opening opportunity, Madam Speaker.
I've often said, one of the best things about the job, and I would imagine that all across–on both sides of the aisle–people will agree, is you get to engage in individuals, let's be honest, that you may not normally engage with because of where you live. We often become very isolated within our own communities, but as an elected official, you travel, Madam Speaker. You travel, not only to other constituencies, but you travel to a lot of events and through that travel, you have engagement. And through engagement, we have understanding, and through understanding, you gain a respect.
And that respect, I think, is reflected through that proclamation and through these non-partisan efforts to say that we need to lift up our Sikh brothers and sisters. We need to recognize their contribution to Manitoba and it is, as my member–my colleague for Rossmere noted, 10,000 strong and more importantly, 10,000 strong and growing.
This is a growing community that will be on full display this weekend at Vaisakhi, Madam Speaker, on the 14th at Mollard temple, as again, in a non-partisan way, we join together to celebrate and to recognize those efforts in the history of the Sikh faith.
And we are very fortunate, Madam Speaker, as Manitobans and as Canadians, that we are, by and large, a nation of culture, a nation of a multitude of faiths, and we see those approaches being shared in the House this morning. And I listened to the member for Maples, and I have great respect for him, for his perspective and his efforts that he has had on this file.
And I know he made reference–I think it was back in April of 2017, so almost about two years ago, where he called on–noted that he called on for the creation of a Sikh heritage month. And maybe that idea germinated to the point where today, two years later, we are here as elected officials, discussing the very idea that he brought forward on behalf of the constituents that he represents and for that, I congratulate him.
And I congratulate him for his legislation that he put forward through Bill 229. And the fact that we have actually two very, very similar bills on a singular issue, Madam Speaker, again, I think highlights the totality, in terms of the unification of our voice in support of our Sikh brothers and sisters, who have largely joined us today–[interjection]
Madam Speaker: Order.
Mr. Martin: And, I know, as the member from Concordia has noted, the gallery continues to fill with those individuals who want to see this House recognize the strength and achievements of Sikh Canadians, not only here in Manitoba over the last, you know, easily the last hundred plus years, Madam Speaker, but throughout history.
And I know, in some of the brief comments that have been shared by colleagues on both sides of the House, some of that history has indeed been shared, Madam Speaker. But obviously no one of us, within our very, very brief allotment of 10 minutes, can possibly give a true effort to the fulfillment and the rich richness of the Sikh faith.
So again, against that backdrop of what we're seeing in Quebec and south of the border, Madam Speaker, I urge all of my colleagues to rise in their place to denounce the Bill 21 in their efforts to secularize their community and minimize the efforts of those communities, and speak in favour of this legislation.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Point of Order
Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): On a point of order.
Madam Speaker: On a point of order.
Ms. Fontaine: I do just want to rise, for a second time this morning and, you know, ever so gently and ever so kindly, ask members opposite to allow a vote this morning on Bill 228.
To that end, Madam Speaker, I also just want to acknowledge our guests that are in the House that are anxious to have a vote on this, and so I ask respectfully if there's leave to have a vote on Bill 228 this morning.
Madam Speaker: Is there leave of the House to have a vote on this bill this morning?
Some Honourable Members: Agreed.
Some Honourable Members: No.
Madam Speaker: Leave has been denied.
And I would indicate that that is not a point of order.
* * *
Mr. Len Isleifson (Brandon East): Thank you for your wisdom in allowing us an opportunity to stand and express our views as well. I know there's a number of us in the Chamber and I'm sure everybody would like the opportunity. And as the member just said, I, too, want to welcome our guests to the gallery today. It is such a great opportunity when we look at the province that we have and the diversity that we have in our communities.
And I–if I may, Madam Speaker, I think we can all plead a little bit of ignorance when it comes to looking at various religions, various organizations throughout the world. And I've heard plenty of times–and I've been guilty of it as well–is–of calling it this 'seekh' community. And it is the Sikh community.
And the opportunity to celebrate events is something that we should all embrace. And with that, I do want to thank the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mrs. Cox), the member from Fort Rouge and the member from Maples for bringing this forward, bringing these ideas forward.
I had a look, and I will read something, Madam Speaker, that I copied off of the Internet and it's off of Sikh.org. And I think it's important that we all understand and put it on the record what they feel the definition is. Because it is import; we've heard throughout the morning various aspects of what I'm going to read. But this is verbatim from their website and I think it's important.
It's a 'progresshive' religion, well above it's time, when it was founded over 500 years ago. The Sikh religion today has a following of over 20 million people worldwide and is ranked as the world's fifth largest religion. Sikhism preaches a message of devotion, remembrance of God at all times, truthful living, equality of mankind and it denounces superstitions and blind rituals. Sikhism is open to all, through the teaching of its 10 gurus 'enshined' in the Sikh holy book and living guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
So we can certainly take that, and look at why people have different organizations. And I fully support the proclamation out there of Sikh heritage month. I support the idea of coming forward, in both the Bill 228 that we're discussing today and the one that's already been tabled from the member from The Maples.
When I look at how do we recognize and support other industries–I mean, I fit right in. All I have to do, Madam Speaker, is walk out the front door of the Legislature, look to the northeast section quadrant of the Legislative grounds and I see a statue of Jon Sigurdsson who–it was donated by the people of Iceland, or the Scandinavian community, back in June 1921.
So, when we look at that opportunity–[interjection]
* (11:00)
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
When this matter's again before the House, the honourable member will have seven minutes remaining.
Madam Speaker: The hour is now 11 a.m. and time for private members' resolutions. The resolution before us this morning is the resolution on Curriculum Support Centre is a needed resource for Manitoba educators, brought forward by the honourable member for Concordia.
Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I move, seconded by the member for Minto (Mr. Swan),
WHEREAS the Provincial Government has recently eliminated the Curriculum Support Centre, weakening the resources available to Manitoba students; and
WHEREAS the Provincial Government made the decision to close the Curriculum Support Centre without consulting educators; and
WHEREAS the nearly 10,000 teachers that rely on the resources should have input regarding decisions that drastically affect their day-to-day classroom lessons and activities; and
WHEREAS transitioning to an online only database will create barriers for northern communities that do not have access to reliable internet; and
WHEREAS certain resources are "hands on" interactive activities that cannot be moved online; and
WHEREAS librarians are a valuable and needed resource in education; and
WHEREAS for the first time in a generation, education funding is not keeping up with enrolment and growth in the economy; and
WHEREAS teachers need more, not less, government support as they are facing significant increases in student enrolment with a large influx of refugee and newcomer students as well as a growth in the number of special needs students; and
WHEREAS the Provincial Government should be investing in the supports that help teachers so that Manitoba children are able to learn and reach their full potentials.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba urge the provincial government to reopen the Curriculum Support Centre so that teachers can continue to be supported in their effort to offer Manitoba youth a quality education.
Motion presented.
Mr. Wiebe: It's a real pleasure to rise this morning to have an opportunity to debate this particular resolution, and I am in particular interested in having a debate on this issue because to this point what we've had is an opportunity as an opposition to raise this day, after day, after day in this Legislature. We've had an opportunity to hear from people on social media about the impact that they're feeling. We've had an opportunity to see people come to the streets and protest this, whether it be teachers, or parents, or librarians.
So we've had a lot of discussion about this, but we haven't had the opportunity to have the substantive debate here in the Legislature to talk about this issue in a way that actually fleshes out some of the concerns that we have.
Because, you know, I think it's been pretty clear from the outset that, you know, this isn't an issue that was dreamed up by any one of the legislators on this side of the House, that we just came up with this and said, well, I think this will be a concern for people, I think this is going to be an issue–no.
In fact, Madam Speaker, this came directly from the community and from the action again, as I said, of teachers, of librarians and of parents. And so it's, you know, we brought this forward, we brought forward our concerns I think in a fairly thoughtful and constructive way, but again, we brought them forward in the context of question period.
And, you know, not to belittle the importance of question period, because I do think it serves a very important purpose, but when you're discussing issues like this, sometimes the details get lost or glossed over, and I really do believe that's what's happened here.
Mr. Doyle Piwniuk, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair
So I hope to put on the record a little bit about why this is such a concern for teachers. But again, what I'm hoping for is a substantive debate and a back and forth and some sort of justification from this government why they would pull the plug on such an important resource for teachers, and why it was done in the way that it was done.
And not in a flippant way, not being called this–what a–this–Dark Ages by some ministers, not dismissing the voices of teachers, but to actually listen to what their concerns are and actually try to answer for what these ministers have put on the record in question period and in the media.
So that's what I hope to hear from the members opposite. I guess maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but I do hope that will be part of the discussion here today.
As I said, this is an issue that was born from concerns directly from teachers and I can tell you, Madam Speaker, this is the kind of issue that, you know, as I said, we heard about it on social media, we've seen people go to the streets.
But for me as a parent in my neighbourhood and as an MLA who represents, of course, many schools, it's actually an issue when I'm walking down the halls. The teachers have come to me, you know, and sort of grabbed my arm and said, do you know how important this is? Do you understand the implications of this cut?
You know, they explain to me how if they're taking on a subject as part of the Manitoba curriculum, something that was developed for our students here in this province, and they have a topic that they want to really get the children involved in and engaged in, all it took was a phone call–just a phone call to the Manitoba curriculum resource centre to say this is my subject, this is the–what the topic we're learning, how can you be of service?
And that's all it took because the experts, the librarians, the people who curated that collection at the Manitoba curriculum resource centre would then put together a package, would send it out to that teacher no matter where they were and would help them in educating our kids.
And again, I mentioned anywhere they are because that was one of the things that stuck out most to me was when we heard from rural teachers, when we heard from northern teachers who said this is a resource that's particularly important to us because we don't have the resources to have large collections or a lot of resources in our own schools. This was a way that it could be pooled together to share the resource.
It's actually–if, you know, the government wants to talk about smart shopping, this is the best way that you could possibly manage a collection like this. And teachers in rural Manitoba appreciated it more than anybody. Teachers in small schools appreciated it more than anyone. Teachers in home schools or in smaller communities appreciated it the most.
And it's a frustration that is now boiling over because did this government consult with teachers? Did they go out and talk to some of these educators and say, look, we're trying to make some changes, how can we do this better? How can we save money? If that's the government–and that usually is the government's goal–how can we save money or how can we make the resource better? Did they do that? They did not do that, Madam–Mr. Speaker.
In fact, what they did is they decided this around a table of–I would imagine–of consultants, maybe the Premier (Mr. Pallister) was sitting there telling the minister what to do, but they were looking at the numbers; they were looking at how can we make cuts in this budget. And guess what, no one's going to notice this, no one's going to notice this curriculum resource centre. Well, people are noticing it, Mr. Speaker, and it is making an impact.
Now again, I want to dispel some of the myths that the member for–that the Minister of Education put on the record in question period. Again, I understand it's the back and forth; maybe some of his members can answer for this. He says, well, we'll just put it all online. Well, you know, Mr. Speaker, that's not a bad idea. Things in the curriculum resource library are already online and, in fact, that is a focus of that resource. They are trying to put more and more items online that could be shared in the best way possible. That's what they do every single day.
But it was very clear, right from the beginning, when we–when the minister proposed that, that teachers pushed back and said it's not as simple as that. First of all, many of these items are physical items; they're physical pieces that are sent out, that are–can be shared around a classroom, held, touched, experienced, felt. Some of them are materials like braille or for visually impaired students. Some of them are videos or lesson plans that are physical.
So, Mr. Speaker, it's not possible to put everything online. Of course, everybody would like to move as much in an efficient way as possible and teachers appreciate that, the resource librarians appreciate that, so there's no question. But beyond that–and I do hope that members from the North will speak today because it's from those communities where Internet access isn't as available or isn't as solid where teachers said it's not as easy as just putting it online. So I wish the minister would be clear about that.
In addition, Mr. Speaker, there–the minister would often stand up and he would say, well, no one's using this resource, this is–you know, a handful of teachers come through the door. Why would we want to support this? Wrong, wrong, and the minister knows this. I would say the minister knows this because his own report from his own department says that usage has been going up year over year over year, and this year was the year that it was most used by teachers.
He says, well, nobody comes through the door. Well, he's right, teachers don't come through the door. They contact through email or through phone calls directly to those support workers and he–they curate and collect those collections and send them out to teachers. He must know this; he works in the department. And if he didn't know this, he could have gone back, spoken to his officials and said, well, maybe there is something to this, maybe that we need to continue this support.
So, you know, it's been over and over again, the minister putting false information on the record. And, you know, that's fine, Mr. Speaker, in the give and take of question period. But it's not fine for the teachers who are being impacted right now by this closure.
And I just want to just reiterate, Mr. Speaker, this closure has been done already. This is a cut that has happened under this government already. They didn't consult; they didn't talk to anybody, but beyond that, they cut it in the middle of a school year; items were out for distribution. They couldn't even wait until summer, just until the summer break at the very least to take this resource away. So it just shows that this government is focused on the cuts.
* (11:10)
And we talk about this every day. We've got the numbers. I'll bring out–we've got, hopefully, Estimates will come soon. But we'll bring out the numbers, Mr. Speaker. We'll talk about the major cuts and how they're having an impact on the classroom and this government will laugh and 'scoffaw' and they don't care or they don't think it's a big deal. Oh, whatever. We can just cut education here and there.
But when it comes to a resource like this, it has now become a focal point for just what this government thinks about education. And at a time when this government is saying, oh, we're going to do the most comprehensive education review in the history of mankind and at the same is cutting an important resource before they've even talked to teachers, before they've talked to parents, before they've talked to school divisions.
They've talked to nobody, Mr. Speaker, and yet they're willing to make this cut because a consultant told them to or the Premier (Mr. Pallister) ordered it from his desk or some bean-counter behind the scenes said this was the priority of Manitobans.
I can tell you we know what the priorities of Manitobans are and it's to protect education, it's to invest in education and it's to stand with Manitoba parents, educators and students every step of the way and that's what we'll do, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: A question period up to 10 minutes will be held. The questions will be addressed in the following sequence: the first question may be asked by a member from another party; any subsequent questions must follow a rotation between parties. Each independent member may ask one question, and no questions or answers shall exceed 45 seconds.
Mr. Scott Johnston (St. James): Can the member indicate why he has a lack of confidence in Manitoba educators to adapt to change?
Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): For this member, who was a school trustee in this province, who understands the impact that cuts like this can have, it is unbelievable that he would come here and defend this cut, Mr. Speaker.
Our teachers are incredible. I can tell you, my daughter's in grade 3, my son's in grade 1. I'm blown away every day, around the dinner table, with the things that they're bringing back but we need to support teachers or else they won't be able to provide a great education for our kids.
Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I've been approached by a teacher named Gabriel Hurley, who's a West End resident, resident of Minto, who was very upset when he heard of the change. He told me that some 10,000 teachers, almost two thirds of Manitoba teachers, rely on the resources provided by this centre each and every year.
Can the member talk about how many of those teachers were consulted before the government decided to close this centre?
Mr. Wiebe: I did have a chance to also meet the member's constituent and he's very passionate about this. I appreciate the work that he's done.
You know, this is actually an opportunity. When the government has said we're going to go out and talk to Manitobans to hear from them what their priorities are in education, this would have been an example of something you could have put on the table–could have said, is this the cut that you want to make? We wouldn't have suggested it as a cut. That's not, I think, the best way to go forward but if this government was proud of this cut, they could have said this is on the table and gone out, done the review and said clearly to Manitobans, we plan to cut this. What do you think?
I ask them, would they do that now?
Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, we've heard concerns about adapting to change but what I would ask the member is this: the education support centre has been very flexible. It has been forward-thinking. It has been at the very centre of helping the teachers adapt to change in this world.
Maybe the minister–the member could comment on this?
Mr. Wiebe: I appreciate the question. It is true and as I said in my opening statement, you know, the move for the Curriculum Resource Centre to put more resources online, to adapt, to make sure that the information and the resources that they're gathering are, you know, up-to-date and current to what are–is needed in the classroom, has been fantastic.
Teachers have seen that how much of an impact that makes in their classroom. They're willing to work with them, to make sure that it's an invested-in resource. Over a hundred years this has been in place. Teachers count on it and they're going to count on it into the future.
Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Acting Speaker or Deputy Speaker, can the member from Concordia outline the process for this change?
Mr. Wiebe: Yes, I'm not sure what the–maybe the member could go talk to the Minister of Education, ask him how exactly he pulled the plug on this resource. Did he do it personally? Did he call up those employees there and those great educators and librarians and say you're fired? Or, in fact, did he actually just get one of his department staff to do that? I–that would be the question.
What we're saying is, is we want to invest in this resource, we want to keep it open, we want to keep it available to teachers.
Mr. Swan: You know I've heard from teachers that this closure was done with such haste that the teachers, you know, the 10,000 teachers a year that use this resource, they were actually told to pack up the materials that they had been sent by the centre, pack them up and send them right back to the centre to go ahead so they could proceed with this closure.
Is this something the member's also heard and can he comment on that?
Mr. Wiebe: Well, Mr. Speaker, it is a major frustration, because not only was the cut announced completely out of the blue, it wasn't–there–again, there was no consultation, no discussion, no forewarning, but at the–in–it was done in the middle of the school year so the materials were spread far and wide across this province and so, all of a sudden, we got emails sent out, saying, send back your materials ASAP; if you're in the middle of a lesson plan, doesn't matter; if you're in the middle of teaching the subject, too bad; send it back now. And that was it, there was no fanfare other than that, just to say it's closed, everyone else is out of that facility and the resource is gone.
Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Rossmere): Every other province in Canada used to have a library such as the one in Manitoba, every other province analyzed their own situation and came to the conclusion that in light of modern times and technology and so on, it was time to retire the old ways, modernize, make sure teachers still have access, which will continue in Manitoba.
Why does this member oppose modernization which has been embraced by every single other province in the nation of Canada?
Mr. Wiebe: You know–it–again, it is so frustrating, Mr. Speaker, that it's former educators and people that are in–that were in the education system that are standing up on the other side and refuse to understand how much of an impact or at least acknowledge how much of an impact this is having on teachers.
Again, if that was the plan, then there probably would have been a year, maybe two years of investing in the resource, making sure that the digital archives were improved and enhanced, that there was some discussion with teachers about things that couldn't be digitized, that distribution models–none of that was done. None of that was done.
So this member may want to race to the bottom among Canadian provinces, but I'd be surprised because we want to enhance education, not make it worse.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member–the opposition–the second opposition House–I mean, second opposition leader. Sorry about that.
Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): The–one of the things we've heard in–is that there–as you've mentioned, that there are many objects, there are things in the curriculum library that simply cannot be digitized; that there are science kits, there are artifacts that can't be put on the Internet, and their passed around–and because small schools simply cannot afford them.
So, one of the things that the library did was actually make the entire system more affordable, because it meant that a–instead of having a lot of schools all over the province buying multiple copies of something, that they can buy just one. I was just wondering if the member from Concordia–
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up.
Mr. Wiebe: Well, again, you know, members opposite used words like the Dark Ages when referring to libraries, talked about, you know, how it's an antiquated system, and yet, it's their premier who stands up last year and says, you know what, books are important; the physical actual holding of an object is important. And we agree with that, Mr. Speaker, so what happened?
Well, I can tell you what happened. The bean counters got their way around the table rather than the teachers and that's the–that's this government in a nutshell. They want to listen to consultants; we want to listen to teachers.
Mr. Swan: I went to one of the protests out in front of the centre which is actually located in the constituency of Minto. I met lots of teachers in the city. I also met a number of teachers from Eastman, from the Interlake, from southwestern Manitoba who'd taken the time on spring break to come in and express their displeasure with what this government was doing. The member spoke a little bit about the challenges for rural and northern teachers. I wonder if the member for Concordia could expand on that and those concerns just a little bit more.
Mr. Wiebe: Well, once again, it's partly the efficiencies of scale, the fact that in smaller communities or smaller schools, it's not–just not possible to have the kind of resources that they would like.
* (11:20)
And obviously having a central collection that can be distributed is probably the most efficient model that we could think of.
The other part of it, though, as I mentioned earlier, was Internet access. And it's really, you know, I mean, I guess it's easy for the government to have perimeteritis, to think that if they live in a big community, that Internet access is great here, it's got to be great everywhere in the province.
We understand that there's challenges in the North and rural Manitoba to have that kind of Internet access that would provide for the kind of high quality distribution system that potentially could be proposed if the government was to invest in it.
Mr. Johnston: Education is the second highest–or second largest department in the province of Manitoba when it comes to expenditure.
Can the member indicate what cost savings, if any, he can identify in education?
Mr. Wiebe: Yes, keeping the curriculum resource library, Mr. Speaker. Now that's a cost savings. And I'll explain it to the member, because he may be–[interjection]
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.
Mr. Wiebe: –confused. Now, it's going–[interjection]
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.
Mr. Wiebe: –to take the budget of the government down; he's absolutely right. This cut will be a lower budget line item in his budget.
What will it do to the school divisions? What will it do to the schools? They now have to go out and buy their own resources, they have to provide their own resources for their students. It's going to cost them more.
Is the government going to increase the amount of money that they give to school divisions? Absolutely not. In fact they're cutting it. So, while they're cutting their own budget, they're cutting the budgets of the local school divisions. And it’s a cut, cut, cut from this government.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Time for question period has expired.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The debate is open. Any speakers?
Mr. Scott Johnston (St. James): And the answer to that last question was obvious that the NDP don't have any solutions. All they have is the opportunity, or continue the opportunity, to throw money at problems and not come up with solutions. Well, on this side of the House, we try to come up with solutions on behalf of Manitobans.
First and foremost, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I'd like to compliment the Minister of Education on his continue–for continuing to face the challenges of today's educational needs. He initiated the educational review, which is the largest and most comprehensive ever to take place in Manitoba. Far more comprehensive than the members on the other side ever initiated.
This commission will seek to involve all stakeholders: parents, teachers, administrators, teachers and all interested parties. And even the members from the other side can participate if they so wish.
Why, Madam Speaker? Because Manitoba's educational needs have to be evaluated. The problems that we have and the results that we've got in literacy; the problems that we've had and the results we're getting in numeracy, quite frankly are just not acceptable.
This government recognizes that. The previous government did not.
An Honourable Member: What have you done?
Mr. Johnston: First and foremost, reassessing the fundamentals to education is something that this government has certainly done very aggressively. What we certainly have done is we've offered the opportunity to seek input from all of the stakeholders in Manitoba. And the former minister initiated the Manitoba summit, which brought educators and all interested parties in education together to have some discussion in regards to the challenges that we face. And that report went to the minister and certainly is something that our government continues to evaluate, to act on.
Some of the areas that came forward, throughout that study, and was–were consistent, Mr. Deputy Speaker, was teachers need to have a successful–or technology to be successful in learning. How do we create vibrant learning environments so that students can thrive in an ever-changing world, technology applications, and how using data analysis is improving, and how can we use that to support teacher and student learning.
So these are some of the areas that have been identified by the summit–Manitoba summit and learning–and technology is certainly a big component of what's being discussed.
And, when reviewing all education, again, the key is to find solutions to problems. Madam Speaker, I don't think we can sell our teachers short when it comes to adapting to change. I've personally seen teachers transition to adapting to educational technology. They're very capable of using the Internet.
There was an initiative that our school division put forward when I was a school trustee with SMART boards. They utilized the Internet very effectively and most school divisions now are adopting them. That's changed. That's changing the classroom.
And our teachers and our educators, they're not afraid of change yet this–members on that side of the government seem to think that our people can't adapt to change, which is totally false.
Mister–excuse me–Mr. Deputy Speaker, our government is modernizing Curriculum Support Centre from a physical location towards more equitable online access to educators, bringing Manitoba in line with the rest of the provinces across Canada. We will increase the number of teachers who use these resources. We will make more curriculum resources available online and distribute physical resources through the educational system.
Service will not change for students with visual impairment, and they can continue to access resources at same location as those resources that were previously available.
The resources that are being distributed through the education system will still be largely available in local collections and will be able to be located throughout the department's website.
This change further provides an opportunity for educational organizations to request educational materials at no cost. That opportunity has been made available to superintendents of all school divisions and province's major universities and all funded independent schools in Manitoba, among other groups.
Madam Speaker, I'd like to take a few moments to discuss some of the resources currently available to all teachers in the province. Through the Department of Education, any teacher in Manitoba can access more than 2,000 electronic books and audiobooks covering a wide range of grades and subjects, a collection of over 15 journals with a specific focus on K-to-12 professional development topics. Access to 250 K-to-12 curriculum-correlated videos can be directly streamed into the classroom and alternate-format collections and services including MP3 audiobooks.
In addition, every teacher in Manitoba can access specialized supports for deaf and hard-of-hearing students, specialized supports for the blind and visually impaired students, and resource consultation services through the Department of Education's inclusion support office and other resource-intensive needs.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, discussing supports available to teachers outside the Curriculum Support Centre, which I remind members are also available, resources available at the division level and well beyond. And may I say that, again, I'm aware that all school divisions have their own resource centres. They have their own texts; they have their own support mechanisms within their school divisions right now and they have evolved over time. When the Manitoba textbook organization–or, sorry, it's not called that anymore–that particular organization wasn't necessarily delivering to the degree that all school divisions wanted; therefore, they started and started utilizing their own resources.
* (11:30)
Division-based supports include resource teacher and divisional reading-math consultants, co-teaching and getting resources to enhance teaching of the curriculum, grade groupings of teaching for professional development, subject area and clinical specialists who provide student-specific and teacher-specific suggestions for teaching in the classroom; using the local library for additional reading materials, and the school library; using the community as a resource, guest speakers and mentorships, professional development, such as MTS PD day; school-based resources, include shared prep time with the same-grade teachers, after-school book clubs, resource teacher co-teaching and co-planning; school-based math consultants, divisionally based literacy consultants, etc.; division libraries with special equipment, technology and materials that can be utilized and supplied by the department; technology purchased to help teachers reach all learners: iPads with games, apps, computers for keyboarding instead of writing, software and voice-to-text or text-to-message; Reading A-Z and mathematics, two websites that students can access at home–both programs have different features to help students practice independently and for teachers to give practice to student's levels; division web portals for teachers to share lesson plans, about indigenous perspective, as well as other education; Me and We lessons plans available for free, all about social justice; artistic programs and independent study options on the web-based course, that are available for all teachers who wish to utilize it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up.
Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Now, I rise today to put a few words on the record in regards to the resolution brought forward by the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). And, as I'm sitting here and listening to the members put some words on the record from Concordia, I had stood up and asked a question and then I was asked by the opposition members why I would stand up and ask a question.
And the question I had asked to the member from Concordia was basically asking him if he knew what the whole process was for the change that was going to be happening to the support centre and he basically refused to answer the question. And the reason why he refused to answer the question, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is the fact that he doesn't know the answer. He doesn't know the answer because, again, further proof by the NDP opposition is that they don't know what they're talking about.
And you know what? The member from Minto is sitting in his place and, of course, refused to stand up and put a few words on the record and I'm sure, now that I've said that, he'll get some courage and stand up and put a few words on the record.
So it's nice to see him, you know, get engaged a little bit with the party and much like the Premier (Mr. Pallister) mentioned, it was either yesterday or the day before, the member from Minto tried to jump off the Titanic, the NDP-driven Titanic. And he jumped off and he missed the life raft.
So now he's back in here and I think he's busy having conversations with his opposition House leader, or whoever makes some decisions about where he's going to have to run now in the 2020 election, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
But getting back to the resolution, I would like to compliment and recognize a few members on our side, the government side of the House, who actually have put in a lot of time and dedication into the education system here in Manitoba, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Dennis Smook, Acting Speaker, in the Chair
Unlike the NDP, who have very limited experience in the education field, I am going to name a few members here, on ours–the government side of the House.
We've got the Minister of Health who is a teacher. I think we have the member of Swan River who've just recently retired as a teacher up in Swan River and many, many years dedicated to the environment; 35 years to be exact.
We've got the member of–member from Rossmere who's an administrator and then, of course, then we had quite a few members. The Minister of Crown Services (Mrs. Mayer), who's a trustee, as well as the member who I have the privilege and honour to follow speaking today, is the member from St. James was the trustee for many years. The Minister of Infrastructure (Mr. Schuler), he was a trustee, and also the Minister of Ag.
So we, on this side, the government side of the House, are not going to take any lessons in regards to education from the member from Concordia or any of the members from the NDP. Because, Mr. Acting Deputy Speaker, as I said, when you ask a question to the member from Concordia and all he has is to stand up and shout loudly, talk from their–his talking points and try to fearmonger many, many parents, grandparents, kids that are in this great province of ours, Mr. Acting Speaker, you know what; it's just shameful. It's absolutely shameful.
And the problem is, is he really doesn't know what he's talking about. So the fact is, is that the resources that were being offered through the resource centre are going to be online. The access to the more tactile resources that the member from St. John–St. Boniface mentioned earlier, I mean, they are going to be accessible to those teachers throughout this great province of ours.
And the teachers are resourceful. They don’t only rely on the online resource centre; they rely on their own investigative skills and they also attend many, many other professional development opportunities, not only here in Manitoba but throughout the world, Mr. Acting Speaker.
In regards to professional development, I just wanted to put on the record as well, I had the pleasure of–and many people here in this Chamber knows that I'd the pleasure of teaching within the Agassiz and Sunrise School Division for 17 years and my last–or the many, many years of those 17 years were dedicated to the student services stream.
And so with the student services stream, we often found ourselves with the team within Sunrise, and collaborating with those co-workers and colleagues from all over this province via email, via texts, phone calls.
Mr. Doyle Piwniuk, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair
You know what, it’s interesting, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that the NDP opposition party–how short-term their memory is, because of all the devastation, the valley of despair that they put our education system in throughout those 17 years of their reign.
But you know what, Mr. Acting Speaker, we–or, Deputy Speaker, sorry–in 2016, we formed government. And it is giving a fresh light of hope for not only teachers but also parents and students as well, that they know that we are going to be getting results for our students.
And that’s been something that when I go to the doors, and I speak to many of my colleagues, all over this great province of ours, is they were tired of working for the NDP government, where they had no direction. The NDP government was fine with being last in numeracy and literacy and science.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, in 2002-2003, when the first set of testing that came out–to basically sort of gauge where students sort of ranked, not only in Canada but throughout the world–we here in Manitoba–keep in mind, 2002-2003, so that means that those students that were taking those tests then had pretty much taken all of their education under the Filmon government, the PC government.
And we were ranked, in the country, third in numeracy and literacy. The science tests had come out a couple years after that. But since then, since when the NDP boondoggle had tricked Manitobans into voting for them and putting them into power, they–we kept seeing our scores and our ranking within this country and throughout the world decline. And matter of fact, it got to the point, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it got to the point where we were actually 10th in literacy, numeracy and in science.
* (11:40)
And as an educator, that upsets me. It upsets me because even today we do have a former Education minister here that's still sitting at Fort Garry-Riverview, for a few more months anyway. He's showing that he's going to be leaving, yes, up to about–[interjection]
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.
Mr. Ewasko: –another year and a half as he's chirping from his back seat there, Mr. Deputy Speaker. But so what we've saw is that they were proud of that record. The NDP would make up excuses and, you know, but the test scores are incorrect or the test scores are loaded or the tests are slanted one way or the other.
But you know what? Again, we see that in 2016, when we formed government, many of us on the government side of the House are getting those–inspiration from the teachers, parents and students that we are on the right track. Got a lot of work to do yet, but I know that we are up for that challenge.
I have to commend the Minister of Education and the former minister of Education, the 'menner'–member from Portage la Prairie, on coming forward with this K-to-12 review. It is something that has not happened.
There was some tweaking, of course, under the Filmon government in the '90s, but the overall study had not been done since '57.
With those few words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, thank you for your time this morning.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Any further speakers? Is there any further speakers?
Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Rossmere): Thank you, Mister–[interjection] Everyone okay? Just wanted to make sure everyone's okay.
I expected someone else to stand up, especially we have members on the other side who have been in the education system. We have a former minister of Education in the member for Fort Garry-Riverview (Mr. Allum), but they're silent. I don't know why they would want to not comment given the excitable nature of the member for Concordia's (Mr. Wiebe) remarks this morning.
Apparently, this was a big issue, but when they're given the chance to speak, maybe not so much. Maybe the member for Concordia stands by himself on this one. Well, the hour's not up yet and there's still maybe opportunity for other members to speak, including those from the party that the member for Concordia regrettably belongs to.
On this matter of the education library–actually it's called the Curriculum Support Centre–I'd like to point out Mr. Deputy Speaker, that all across Canada this discussion has been happening in many locations, in every province and across the country. Educators have recognized that it is time to modernize, to reconsider how we can best serve schools, students and educators.
So we've seen all across Canada, in every province, support centres like the one on Wall Street modernizing, putting their resources online and making available those resources not suited to an Internet format, making those available by other means.
The change that has happened here is no different to the changes that have been taking place across Canada, by governments of different stripes, because it just makes sense. It's the right thing to do. It's going to allow more educators more access to more resources.
The Internet–the website that is available, I've actually looked at it, and it has hundreds and hundreds of videos, hundreds and hundreds of resources. And when I've pointed this out to teachers who have talked with me about this, the response has been, oh, I guess that makes sense.
Now, it needs to be acknowledged that not every community–there are some in our province with limited Internet access. What about those people? Well, usually those communities are the same ones that would not be able to drive to the resource centre in an afternoon, pick up a few things and head back to the school.
So really the issue of availability and proximity, to them, has always been a challenge and will continue to be a challenge. And we will make sure that they are well served and able to access everything that is entitled to them, as will be the case for independent schools and as will be the case, I do believe, for home-schooling families as well.
Resources currently housed at the curriculum resource support centre will all be made available to whomever would like to access them. More than 2,000 electronic books and audiobooks covering a full range of grades and subjects, more than 15 journals–I don't know the exact number, I'm going to say it's 15-plus–with focuses on professional development topics are all available. I already mentioned a very broad collection of videos and other alternate format collections as well.
What about specialized supports for deaf and hard of hearing students? They will continue to be available, too. What about specialized supports for blind and visually impaired students? Mr. Deputy Speaker, you and all listening can put their minds at ease, because those supports will continue to be available as well.
Resource consultation services through the Department of Education's Inclusion Support office will remain for other resource-intensive needs, too. There's a phone number. There's an email address. Give them a call. You'll find that it's available.
There's also access to division-based supports. The divisions have their own consultants in many cases. The divisions have educational assistants who are often specialists in customizing curriculum, in assisting students with unique challenges and needs.
And maybe I could take a moment to give a shout-out to every single educational assistant in the province who's helping a student who struggles, who's taking the time to figure out a way to make it work and who's standing by whatever teacher they're working with to improve that classroom experience, not just for the students who perhaps more obviously need some assistance, but by virtue of their good work, for all students in that class and in that school.
* (11:50)
I had the privilege of being a school principal for a number of years, and it's often the unseen people that make schools a special place; of course the teachers, of course those people who lead the classes, but also the educational assistants, also the resource staff, also the support staff.
Other resources still available: various professional development opportunities for grey–groupings of teachers, maybe subject-area groupings, clinical specialists, divisional libraries, local libraries and, Mr. Deputy Speaker, there is no prohibition on teachers accessing the Internet in whichever way they choose to enhance their own education delivery. It's no secret that the Internet is full of free resources, superb resources, innovative resources. In education, it truly is a world-wide web.
We can look across the ponds to European models for something, or maybe consider what our friends in Australia are doing, or in other parts of Canada or the U.S. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have much to learn from others and many teachers are doing that learning themselves.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, these changes will improve what is available to Manitoba teachers, to Manitoba students. It's about working smarter, not just harder, and I know that many teachers indeed are doing both–
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up.
Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): It's a pleasure always to rise in the House and embrace the democracy that we all share and to make a few very brief comments about the member opposite's resolution on the Curriculum Support Centre.
I have to say I'm disappointed for all their rhetoric, and nonsense that the members opposite often put on the record. They had an opportunity–his colleagues had an opportunity this morning to rise and to support the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe), and there was nothing but deafening silence from members opposite in relation to the member for Concordia's resolution. Obviously their support is, as the old saying goes, a mile wide and an inch deep, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, it's always interesting to note that members opposite continue to ignore that time marches on. Just as Manitobans put them in the penalty box in 2016, which they'll stay for many, many years, one of the changes obviously is the increased availability of online resources to teachers, to homeschoolers, and to other individuals who do require those resources.
I note, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that during the entire time in office, the dark days that the NDP were in office, I don't recall ever they going on the public record and criticizing their NDP brothers and sisters and other jurisdictions when they made changes to their own curriculum support centres and went to the online model.
So again, it's always passing strange that it's only when this government modernizes a system that they seem to take issue with it, but when we're actually modelling those very actions on their own brothers and sisters in other parts of the country, they turn a willful blind eye to that fact.
So I've used the terms deaf ear and blind eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and I think it's important to note that–
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.
The hour being 11:55 a.m., pursuant to rules–oh, when this matter is before the House, the honourable member for Morris has seven minutes remaining–eight minutes remaining.
Bill 205–The Official Time Amendment Act
(Daylight Saving Time Abolished)
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hour being 11:55 a.m., pursuant of rule 23(7), I am interrupting the proceedings to conduct a recorded division on the second reading of motion–of Bill 205, The Official Time Amendment Act (Daylight Saving Time Abolished), which was requested and deferred during last Tuesday's private members' business.
As a recorded vote has been requested, call in the members.
Recorded Vote
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The question before the House is reading of Bill 205, The–second reading.
The question before the House is the second reading of Bill 205, The Official Time Amendment Act (Daylight Saving Time Abolished).
Division
A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows:
Yeas
Gerrard, Graydon, Lamont, Lamoureux, Marcelino (Tyndall Park)
Nays
Allum, Bindle, Cox, Cullen, Ewasko, Fontaine, Friesen, Guillemard, Helwer, Isleifson, Johnson, Johnston, Lagassé, Lagimodiere, Maloway, Martin, Mayer, Micklefield, Nesbitt, Pallister, Pedersen, Reyes, Schuler, Smith (Point Douglas), Smith (Southdale), Smook, Stefanson, Swan, Teitsma, Wharton, Wiebe, Wishart, Wowchuk, Yakimoski.
Deputy Clerk (Mr. Rick Yarish): Yeas 5, Nays 34.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion lost.
* * *
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hour being past noon, the House is recessed and stands recessed until 1:30 p.m.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA
Thursday, April 11, 2019
CONTENTS