LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE
Tuesday,
November 22,
2005
LOCATION – Winnipeg,
Manitoba
CHAIRPERSON – Ms. Bonnie
Korzeniowski (St. James)
VICE-CHAIRPERSON – Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson)
ATTENDANCE – 11 QUORUM – 6
Members of the Committee present:
Hon. Messrs. Mackintosh, Smith
Mr. Dewar, Mrs. Driedger, Messrs. Hawranik, Jha, Ms. Korzeniowski, Messrs. Maloway, Penner, Reimer, Swan
APPEARING:
Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson, MLA for River East
WITNESSES:
Bill 10–The Convention Centre Corporation Amendment Act
Mr. Klaus Lahr, The Convention Centre Corporation
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS:
Bill 2–The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act
Mr.
Lanny McInnes, Retail Council of
MATTERS UNDER CONSIDERATION:
Bill 2–The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act
Bill 3–The Enforcement of Canadian Judgments Act
Bill 8–The Official Time Amendment Act
Bill 10–The Convention Centre Corporation Amendment Act
* * *
Clerk Assistant (Ms. JoAnn
McKerlie-Korol): Good evening. Will the Standing
Committee on Justice please come to order.
The first item of business is the election of a chairperson. Are there any nominations?
Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): I nominate Ms. Korzeniowski.
Clerk Assistant: Are there any further nominations? Seeing none, Ms. Korzeniowski, would you please take the Chair as appointed Chairperson.
Madam Chairperson: The next item of business is the election of a Vice-Chairperson. Are there any nominations?
Mr. Dewar: Madam Chair, I nominate Mr. Jha.
Madam Chairperson: Are there any further nominations? Seeing none, Mr. Jha has been
appointed Vice-Chairperson.
This
evening the committee will be considering the following bills: Bill 2, The
Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act; Bill 3, The
Enforcement of Canadian Judgments Act; Bill 8, The Official Time Amendment Act;
and Bill 10, The Convention Centre Corporation Amendment Act.
We
do have a presenter registered to speak to Bill 10. It is the custom to hear
public presentations before consideration of bills. Is it the will of the
committee to hear public presentations on this bill? [Agreed]
Mr.
Klaus Lahr, representing the Convention Centre Corporation, has registered to
speak to Bill 10. That is the organization that has registered so far. If there
is anybody else in the audience that would like to register or who has not yet
registered and would like to make a presentation, would you please register at
the back of the room. Just a reminder that 20 copies of your presentation are
required. If you require assistance with photocopying, please see the Clerk of
this committee.
I
would like to inform presenters that, in accordance with our rules, a time
limit of 10 minutes has been allotted for presentations and five minutes for
questions from committee members.
I would also like to
inform the committee that a written submission has been received from the
following organization: Lanny McInnes, Retail Council of Canada. A copy of this
brief was made for committee members and was distributed at the start of the
meeting. Does the committee grant its consent to have this written submission
appear in the committee transcript for this meeting? [Agreed]
Bill 10–The Convention Centre
Corporation Amendment Act
Madam Chairperson: I now call on Mr. Klaus Lahr, representing the Convention Centre Corporation, to make his presentation. Mr. Lahr, do you have copies of your presentation to distribute to the committee?
Mr. Klaus Lahr (Convention Centre Corporation): Thank you, Madam Chair. No, I do not have any copies. I merely came to be present if there are any questions from the committee in regard to the proposed amendment.
Madam Chairperson: Are there any questions? Seeing no questions, thank you, Mr. Lahr.
* * *
Madam Chairperson: That concludes the list of presenters. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to make a presentation? Seeing no one else, is it the will of the committee to proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of Bills 2, 3, 8 and 10, and, if yes, in what order do you wish to proceed?
Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): To go in numerical order of the bills.
Madam Chairperson: Is that agreed by the committee? [Agreed]
Bill 2–The Private Investigators and
Security Guards Amendment Act
Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 2 have an opening statement?
Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Just in response to the interest of the Retail Council of Canada in recognizing loss prevention officers as a distinct class of security guards, that is the intention as a result of discussions with the industry on the regulations, because it is important, for example, that requirements on the wearing of uniforms not be mandated for loss prevention officers.
That is the main area of difference, so that was contemplated in the drafting of this scheme.
Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister.
Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?
An Honourable Member: No.
Madam Chairperson: We thank the member.
During the consideration of a bill, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order. Also, if there is agreement from the committee, the Chair will call clauses in blocks that conform to pages with the understanding that we will stop at any particular clause or clauses where members may have comments, questions or amendments to propose. Is that agreed? [Agreed]
Shall clauses 1 and 2 pass?
Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): I have a question to the minister. He just indicated that in his opinion the definition section complies with what the Retail Council of Canada has submitted in written form with respect to their interpretation and with respect to how they felt that that provision should be changed.
Seeing that the minister has indicated that the concern of the Retail Council of Canada has been met in the definition section, is he prepared to at least speak to the Retail Council of Canada with respect to that and relay that information to them and satisfy them in that respect?
Mr. Mackintosh: Yes, the definition certainly embraces loss prevention officers, and, as I say, it will be recognized as a distinct class.
There were a couple of other less significant points raised by the Retail Council of Canada, and staff will contact them in the morning to assure them that their concerns are met. The other one was the ability of private corporations like large employers or perhaps even the council to host the training. There is no limit on who can provide the training, and, indeed, we do expect the private sector to be stepping up to provide that maybe at the workplace and maybe jointly.
So I think we have met all their concerns, and certainly it was contemplated in the drafting of the legislation.
Mr. Hawranik: They had that concern about the definition section which the minister just addressed, and they had a second concern, though, with respect to minimum training standards in the bill itself to allow at least those pre-existing training programs to be accredited or at least recognized in the context of what is going to be required in this bill. Is the minister prepared to do that?
* (18:10)
Mr. Mackintosh: Well, that raises two points. First of all, there will be a grandparenting of the requirements. I believe they are looking at 3000 hours when someone will be recognized as being fully qualified just by experience on the job. Second of all, there may be many security guards who far exceed the 40-hour training standard here. For example, I think of our own security guards in Transportation and Government Services at the front door, I suspect they far exceed the requirements. That kind of auditing will be done. As well, the Corps of Commissionaires far exceeds it. But there may be other workplaces, as well, that would qualify, or other individuals that would qualify to be exempted, based on training with their employer or with community colleges or other education providers.
Mr. Hawranik: Can the minister indicate how that evaluation of those existing training programs will take place, who is going to do it and whether the bill, in fact, contemplates that?
Mr. Mackintosh: Manitoba Justice will do that in consultation with employers. I can say there has already been a lot of work done on this by way of the consultation initiative. I mean, the consultation has been extensive. This really is an industry initiative, in large part, which really is then embraced by the legislative change.
Madam Chairperson: Clauses 1 and 2–pass; clauses 3 and 4–pass; clauses 5 through 10–pass; clauses 11 through 14–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.
Bill 3–The Enforcement of
Canadian Judgments Act
Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 3 have an opening statement?
Mr. Mackintosh: No.
Madam Chairperson: Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?
Mr. Hawranik: No.
Madam
Chairperson: Thank you.
During the consideration of a bill, the table of contents, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order. Also, if there is agreement from the committee, the Chair will call clauses in blocks that conform to pages, with the understanding that we will stop at any particular clause or clauses where members may have comments, questions or amendments to propose. Is that agreed? [Agreed]
Clause 1–pass; clause 2–pass; clause 3 through 6–pass. Shall clauses 7 and 8 pass?
Mr. Hawranik: I guess I have one question
of the minister with respect to this bill. That is, I know we are recognizing
judgments from outside of the province in
Mr. Mackintosh: First of all, this
legislation is unique in terms of the protection order piece of it. This is the
first of its kind, where it will be enforceable in
So four jurisdictions that I am advised of are in the process of moving along. I am sure that member sees that this legislation is important in terms of protection orders, but it has a very important role in recognizing the rights of creditors to collect debts across the country. I think, when we have an integrated economy, presumably, in this country, this is an important initiative for corporations to realize on their amounts owing to them.
Mr. Hawranik: There are still five provinces left over and a couple of territories as well. Is there any indication as to when they are going to be enacting legislation similar to this in their jurisdictions?
Mr. Mackintosh: This legislation follows on the Uniform Law Conference which met in late August.
So this came out of the Uniform Law Conference which just met in August, so we expect to see the introduction of this legislation over the course of this year, depending on people's legislative agendas.
Madam Chairperson: Clause 7–pass; clause 8–pass; clause 9–pass; clause 10–pass; clause 11–pass; clause 12–pass; clause 13–pass; clause 14–pass; clause 15–pass; clause 16–pass; clause 17–pass; clause 18–pass; clause 19–pass; table of contents–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.
Bill 8–The Official Time
Amendment Act
Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 8 have an opening statement?
Hon. Scott Smith (Minister
of Intergovernmental Affairs and Trade): Madam Chair, I think the bill
is very self-explanatory. The bill basically comes into conformance with a lot
of the changes that will happen in the
Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister.
Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?
During the consideration of a bill, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order.
Clause 1–pass; clause 2–pass; clause 3–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.
Bill 10–The Convention Centre
Corporation Amendment Act
Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 10 have an opening statement?
Mr. Smith: Madam Chair, just very quickly, this bill comes on the advice of the Convention Centre and the Convention Centre board. The bill is a positive move, moving public representation onto the board with competency skills for members of the board.
It is something that they believe is something that is needed with very specific skills to reduce the amount of city councillors that will be on the board and more public representation and specific skill sets that are needed. Thank you.
Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister.
Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?
* (18:20)
Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Madam Chair, I just want to say that I would like to commend the board and the staff at the Convention Centre, the administration, for the good work that they do. I think our Convention Centre is a showcase for our city. Having attended many events at the Convention Centre, I know, dealing with organizing events, that we have nothing but professional service and great support. So I just want to say to those that run and manage the Convention Centre, "A job well done. Congratulations and keep up the good work."
Madam Chairperson: We thank the member.
During the consideration of a bill, the
enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been
considered in their proper order. Also, if there is agreement from the
committee, the Chair will call clauses in blocks that conform to pages, with
the understanding that we will stop at any particular clause or clauses where
members may have comments, questions or amendments to propose. Is that agreed? [Agreed]
Clauses 1 and 2–pass; clauses 3 through 6–pass; clauses 7 through 10–pass; clause 11–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.
That concludes the business before this committee. What is the will of the committee?
An Honourable Member: Rise.
Madam Chairperson: The hour being 6:21 p.m., committee rise.
COMMITTEE ROSE AT: 6:21 p.m.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS PRESENTED
BUT NOT READ
Bill 2–The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act
Mr. Lanny McInnes, Retail Council of Canada