Prime Minister's Visit

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, in past disasters the Prime Minister of Canada has visited the Red River Valley, the Saguenay region, and the ice storms in Quebec and Ontario. Over the weekend, or Thursday and Friday of last week, Alexa McDonough was able to travel through the areas of southeastern Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and her strong recommendation to the Prime Minister is to come out to western Canada to see first-hand the devastation with the floods and the number of farmers and businesses that could go under because of lack of leadership. It is important that all federal leaders visit this disaster region, particularly the Prime Minister, who has the responsibility and, I would argue, the duty to visit this region and treat western Canadians the same as other regions of this country.

Madam Speaker, has the Premier had any success at all with the Prime Minister visiting here, Manitoba, and southeastern Saskatchewan to look first-hand at the devastation and the number of family farms at risk and businesses along with it?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): At this point, we have not had a positive response from the Prime Minister. I have not yet given up on that possibility happening. Both my office and Premier Romanow's office maintain ongoing contact with the Prime Minister's office to attempt to make that possibility happen, either a visit here by the Prime Minister or an opportunity for Premier Romanow and me to meet with him to be able to emphasize and describe to him the seriousness of the issue.

I will continue to press the Prime Minister, and I will report back as quickly as I can if we have any success in that. I emphasize that both Premier Romanow's office and my office continue to liaise with the Prime Minister's office to attempt to ensure that we get some recognition in some ability to impart to the Prime Minister the seriousness of the issue.

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Disaster Assistance–Federal

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, it is over a month since the provincial government has written the federal government asking for the approval of federal disaster assistance programs under the federal program. Certainly every day before the minister wrote the federal government and every day after gives further weight to the need of disaster assistance from the federal government. It is, as I say, over a month since that letter was written and certainly over 10 weeks since the disaster developed. Has the federal government responded to the provincial government, and have they approved federal disaster assistance as recommended by this government weeks ago and, as allegedly stated by Mr. Vanclief, had not been requested by Manitoba? Has this been approved?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): The short answer to the letter that was forwarded to Minister Eggleton in charge of the Emergency Preparedness program with the federal government is that we have not received an answer yet from Mr. Eggleton. We are in the process of communicating with him again to press the issue and in fact to expand upon the issue in terms of greater detail. As well, the response that came back from Mr. Duhamel was an appreciation for the situation here, and again we are prepared and in the process of pursuing that with Minister Duhamel in terms of asking for a JERI-like program for the western side of the province.

Nursing Shortage

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): With a new question, Madam Speaker, the provincial government has fired over a thousand nurses over the last four years, and of course they are now trying to state that they are going to rehire a number, which we would welcome. The Neepawa Health Services just today issued a press release, or just late last week, effective immediately: Due to the extreme nursing shortage and inability to recruit nurses, we will have to close beds in the east wing except for emergency surgeries, maternity and chemotherapy. A number of surgeries will be cancelled.

I would like to ask the minister: what is the impact on patient care of this strategy of firing nurses after the election and not having any nurses in the communities to deal with it?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Well, again, Madam Speaker, the member is wrong with most of his preamble. He is certainly wrong with the numbers he puts on the record, and he knows full well in the early 1990s right across Canada, not only in Manitoba, there was a surplus of nurses. Some left the profession for various reasons; some left the country. But today we do have a national shortage. The good news is, in a relative sense, Manitoba is in better shape than most provinces. We have dedicated over $32 million in this budget, the budget that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) and his colleagues supported, to put in place some 650 nursing positions. We have a $7-million fund that we will be reporting on very shortly that to date has been quite successful in terms of doing just what it is put in place to do, to bring more nurses back into the profession, to bring more nurses back to Manitoba, and so on.

We are working with the faculties of nursing at the University of Manitoba, licensed practical nursing at Assiniboine Community College, doubling the enrollment, a number of strategies in place to continue to bring more nurses into the system. I am assuming that is one of the reasons that the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues supported our 1999 budget, for that very reason, because we have dedicated significant resources in a whole range of areas to do just that, to bring more nurses back into the profession here in Manitoba.

Mr. Doer: We are delighted to defend the position that we took to vote against the budget that fired the nurses and vote for a budget that might hire a few of them back. Regrettably, there is no faith and credibility left with this government after firing nurses for four years to rehire them just weeks before the election. That is why we have a shortage of nurses, and that is why we have surgeries being cancelled.

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I would like to ask the minister directly: how many gall bladder operations will be cancelled? How many tubal ligations will be cancelled? How many other surgeries will be cancelled, and what will the impact on waiting lists be in the Neepawa health centre based on this government's strategy of firing nurses after the election and then taking a baby step to try to hire them back just before the election?

Mr. Stefanson: Again, the member's inconsistency is readily apparent. Another reason he says he supports this budget is because it is a balanced budget, but yet he turned around and voted against four previous balanced budgets. So I say to him: get consistent with what he is doing in terms of the positions he is taking on all of these fronts. He says he supports balanced budgets; he voted against balanced budgets legislation. So, again, let him not talk about consistency on a number of issues, and we will see how he performs on some others over the course of the next few days.

I have indicated very clearly for the member a number of steps that we have taken. First of all, when you look at nurses on a per capita ratio, Manitoba fares amongst the best in Canada. Having said that, we do acknowledge we need more nurses in our province. That is why we have done a number of things. We were able to reach a collective agreement with nurses at the bargaining table, something that we are not seeing happen in other provinces like Saskatchewan, Quebec and elsewhere. We have put in place a $7-million fund to address the issue of recruiting more nurses.

We have got money in the budget for nursing positions. We are working with the faculties of nursing in Assiniboine Community College to bring more nurses through our educational system. We are doing a number of things that will be very successful to do just what the member is asking about, to bring more nurses into our profession, into our health care to continue to provide care to Manitobans.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): My question is to the Minister of Health. Can the Minister of Health indicate to the Legislature, to the people of the province, whether or not any Manitoba patients are being transferred to the United States for radiation treatment?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): To the best of my knowledge, no, but I will certainly undertake to look into that issue. I think, as the member for Kildonan knows, the Manitoba Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation is aggressively working on the issue of pursuing more radiation therapists. Once again, this is a national challenge. I believe we are up in the numbers of in excess of 200 needed on a national basis right across Canada. We put the money in place, about $1.3 million, to the Manitoba Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation to provide the radiation services that we all want to see provided to Manitobans, but right now it is an issue of staffing and recruitment. That organization is aggressively addressing that. They have put in place national ads. They have gone to a national conference to recruit individuals, and they continue to take all the steps that they can to attract more individuals to that profession to continue to provide that service.

Specific to the question about patients going to the United States, as I have already indicated, I am not aware of any patients doing that in Manitoba. I believe that is the case in other provinces today. In fact, I know for sure that is happening in some other provinces, but I will get back to the member with further details.

Mr. Chomiak: Can the minister confirm that in fact there are plans to transfer patients to the United States to provide for radiation treatment because of shortages?

Mr. Stefanson: No, Madam Speaker, but I know that the department, along with the Manitoba Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation, is looking at all options to provide the services needed to Manitobans, and I know that other provinces are doing exactly what the member has just asked about, that other provinces are doing that, they are having some patients go down to the United States. Right now, as I have already indicated, the Manitoba Cancer Treatment Foundation is looking very aggressively at recruiting the radiation therapists. That certainly would be the most appropriate thing to do; that would provide long-term stability and security to providing these services. The money is in place to do that.

I remind the member this is not an issue of money, this is an issue of staffing. It is a result of some changes put in place to the educational requirements, primarily in the province of Ontario, which significantly reduced the numbers of graduates coming through that program, which put pressure on Ontario and as a result has put pressure all across Canada. The money is in place; the organization is aggressively attempting to recruit radiation therapists.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister undertake to report back to this House tomorrow about the plans for the transfer of patients to receive radiation treatment outside of the province of Manitoba? I know the minister spent a lot of time justifying this decision. I notice he did not talk about the cancellation of the 1995 project, the lack of oncology people that we warned him of several years ago. Will the minister undertake to report back to this House tomorrow about the plans with respect to the transfer of patients for radiation treatment?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, it is not a matter of justifying; it is a matter of giving the member for Kildonan some facts on the current situation. In fact, our neighbouring province, the province of Saskatchewan, has just shut down a treatment unit, treatment, again, due to the lack of radiation therapists. So it is not something unique to Manitoba. It is happening in Saskatchewan, it is happening in Ontario, it is happening right across Canada.

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What we have done in Manitoba is we put in place the resources to address the issue. We are working with the Manitoba Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation to assist them with the recruitment. We are advertising nationally. They are going to conferences; they are doing everything that they can to bring more radiation therapists into the system to continue to provide that service. We have dedicated in this budget $1.3 million to expand those services, to increase radiation therapy capacity.

So the money is in place. It is a matter of getting on with recruiting the individuals to provide that service. We are certainly committed to do that. I have indicated, in terms of the rest of the question, I would get back to the member, Madam Speaker.

Skills Training

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, a report released last week by StatsCan put Manitoba at the bottom of the pack in the numbers of apprentices, post-secondary enrollment, college enrollment and the numbers of college diploma recipients. The consequences of this low-wage, low-skills strategy are clear as reported by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, and even today, Greg Mason of Prairie Research on CJOB is quoted as saying this will impede Manitoba industry.

Will the minister admit to the House that this policy of neglect of our young people has created the current skills shortage and has driven out young people from Manitoba as they waited and waited and waited?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): Unlike the policy referred to by the honourable member, which was the one practised by the government which preceded ours, Madam Speaker, we are living in a time of unprecedented levels of employment which the honourable member very conveniently neglected to mention in her question. We know when the honourable member talks about policy, this government is the one that commissioned the Roblin commission to give us advice about the development of our post-secondary sector. It is this government which, with the support of the New Democratic Party, in the budget laid down $4 million for development of further course offerings and further seats to be made available in our community college sector. It was this government that did those things, this government that is working towards doubling apprentices in this province and with the accompanying education program to go with it.

So there are a lot of things happening to help us grasp the opportunities that, with the help of this government, the Manitoba economy is making available to future citizens.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, I will ask the minister again: does he not see the connection between Manitoba graduating the fewest college recipients in the country in the 1990s and the current skills crisis? Long-term investment means that we would not have this. It is the government's responsibility to invest, and you did not.

Mr. McCrae: Never before in the history of this province have we seen the numbers of employed people that we see right now, Madam Speaker. The honourable member chooses to ignore that. Now I do not say that that is the end of the matter. If I felt that way, we would not have $4 million in the budget for this year, supported by the New Democrats, for the development of college education opportunities, 1,000 of them this year. When you factor that into the numbers referred to by Statistics Canada and by the honourable member, you get a very different picture indeed. But a very consistent picture is in these statistics. If you look at provinces where there are higher levels of unemployment, you will see people in those provinces making the choice to attend post-secondary education. Here, where there are jobs, many, many people choose to go to work rather than post-secondary education. We need to make sure that we are able to grasp the opportunities that are available in our future, in our economy, by continuing to develop our college sector, which is exactly what we are doing, with the support of the New Democrats by virtue of their enthusiastic support for our budget.

Community Colleges

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Perhaps the minister can answer: why does it take an election call for this government to open the Roblin report and to finally give some positive action to those 1,500 young people on the waiting list to get into community college? Why do we need an election to get some action?

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Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, you know, the approach of the honourable member and her colleagues is to create a phoney $200-million Jobs Fund which, after about six weeks of counting flowers by the roadside, the poor recipient of Jobs Fund funding found him or herself without a job. The grant money was gone. There was no benefit, no education benefit, no future for people who bought into that particular approach. No, we see planning for the future with our college sector and our university sector to ensure that Manitobans are able to take advantage of the opportunities that are there for them now and will be in the future. So rather than the old approach of the NDP, and even the Leader of the Opposition had some misgivings about that one as I recall, but rather than taking that approach to buying short-term, make-work projects and jobs for people, jobs that do not last, we want to have an enduring, positive and happy future for all Manitobans.

Order for Apprehension Review

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, just prior to Question Period, I was having a very interesting dialogue with the Japanese national who, if you will, is a mother of a five-year-old flying from Cyprus to Japan, and her husband stopped her and arranged for a stopover here in Winnipeg where the Department of Family Services had apprehended the child. This occurred last year, and it should be noted that the husband's sister is one of the Crown counsels in the Family Law division.

Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Family Services: will the minister conduct an internal review of this case and assure this Legislature that no improper actions were taken by CFS, particularly as to how and when and why the order for apprehension was given?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I thank my honourable friend for that question. I do want to clarify, though, for my honourable friend, that it is not the Department of Family Services that apprehends children; it is the Winnipeg agency that is a mandated agency that is responsible for delivering protection services for children.

I certainly will look into the issue and the circumstances surrounding my honourable friend's question. If he would like to give me a bit more detail, then possibly I could look into it. Any issue regarding apprehension and the protection of children is a serious issue, and I would, with detail, be able to investigate further.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, will the Minister of Family Services make herself available to meet with the mother sometime today or, if not possibly today, sometime tomorrow?

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Mrs. Mitchelson: All depending on committee work, because we know that one of my bills is before a committee presently for presentations, I will either undertake to meet personally or have senior staff within my department meet with her and get the information and the details.

Mr. Lamoureux: My final supplementary is to the Minister of Justice: will the Justice minister ensure that justice is served in this case and, after an investigation by his office, assure this House that the Crown counsel did not place herself in a conflict of interest or tip the scales of justice in favour of her brother?

Mrs. Mitchelson: I would prefer to have some detailed information on the circumstances surrounding this case and investigate it and ensure that we have all the facts and all of the information to ensure that justice has been done. Madam Speaker, I look forward to, at the very earliest opportunity, and I would imagine that might be right after Question Period, having my senior staff get the details and look into the circumstances further.

Renovations

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, the need for doctors in rural Manitoba is very serious in many communities. Winnipegosis is one of those communities; however, they are caught in a vicious circle. They are told that to get a doctor they must have renovations to their hospital. Then they are told that the renovations have to be done before a doctor can come. The renovations were to be done under the conversion fund and were to cost around $378,000 and now have risen to over $500,000. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the community because they now must pay 20 percent of the costs.

Will the minister indicate when the tender will be let go on the renovations to the Winnipegosis Hospital so people of the area can know whether or not they will have renovations done and whether or not they will be able to get a doctor to their community?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, again, as the member knows, there are a number of health capital projects underway, as is always the case. In fact, this year's Health capital budget is $123 million, I believe. We have a number of projects underway doing conversions to some of our hospital facilities throughout Manitoba, building some new hospitals, building 850 net new personal care home beds.

In terms of the status of the tender for the Winnipegosis Hospital, I will certainly look into that matter and get back to the member, Madam Speaker.

Ms. Wowchuk: Can the minister give the people of Winnipegosis the assurance that these renovations will go ahead at no cost to them, that they will not be responsible for 20 percent, given that the first tender was much lower and it is this government that is offloading costs onto local taxpayers and preventing them from getting the renovations that they need and preventing them from attracting doctors to rural Manitoba?

Mr. Stefanson: Again, Madam Speaker, the member for Swan River knows full well that the issue of a community contribution is nothing new in the province of Manitoba. It has been in place for many decades in the province. She also knows that community contributions are not unique to the province of Manitoba. I remind her that provinces like British Columbia have a 40 percent community contribution, Saskatchewan has a 35 percent community contribution, and here in Manitoba, if the money is put up front, right at the front end of a project, the facilities can actually reduce that contribution down to 10 percent. To date, the contribution policy has not been an impediment for any of our health care projects going forward that have required a community contribution. So I am sure that this project will go ahead. I have confidence that the project in Winnipegosis will go ahead, and in terms of the status of the tender, I will get back to the member.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, I ask the minister to check those facts very clearly because in fact these kinds of costs are putting this project in jeopardy. The people of the area are very concerned that, if the costs are over $500,000, they will not be able to go ahead with the project. Why are you not more concerned about rural Manitoba to ensure we have facilities and we have doctors in rural Manitoba that are very much needed?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, we are concerned about rural Manitoba, and that is why we are seeing health capital facilities being improved, being built right throughout Manitoba, whether you go down to the Morden-Winkler area, whether you go out to Neepawa, whether you go to Beausejour, whether you go to Gimli. You can go throughout the province of Manitoba. You go to Swan River, her own community, where we are committed not only to a temporary facility but a state-of-the-art modern hospital facility for that region. That is because we have made significant commitments to capital projects right throughout the province of Manitoba, and the community contribution policy has in no way been an impediment to projects going forward. She knows that.

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Funding

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, my questions are also directed towards the Minister of Health. The city of Selkirk and the rural municipalities of St. Andrews and St. Clements have a higher senior population than the provincial average. The Gordon Howard Seniors Centre in Selkirk provides a seniors support program for Selkirk and St. Andrews but has not received funding for their proposal to expand this valuable service for seniors into St. Clements.

My question to the minister: is the minister aware of this deficiency in service, and is he prepared to fund this much-needed support program? I will provide a copy of a letter from the president to the minister's predecessor requesting funding.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I will certainly look at the details that the member is providing here this afternoon. I know, when it comes to personal care home beds in Selkirk and that surrounding area, that community and that region stack up very well compared to other parts of the province and the provincial average; in fact it is higher than the provincial average in terms of personal care home beds. So I certainly recognize that that community is well supported in terms of health care services, whether it be their hospital, whether it be personal care homes, and we are looking at some other initiatives in that area.

In terms of the document that he has tabled here this afternoon dated June 29, 1998, I will look into the matter.

Kidney Dialysis

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, why was there no mention of dialysis machines promised for Selkirk, which the minister promised in the Estimates during the Department of Health, when the minister recently made an announcement regarding dialysis services here in Manitoba? Did he forget?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, what a silly question. If the member followed the announcement, he would have noticed that we allocated $5 million for enhancements of dialysis services across the province of Manitoba. There is more than one site affected by that allocation of dollars, and I tell the member for Selkirk to wait patiently for some additional information that should be coming forward very shortly as it relates to the total allocation of dialysis services throughout the province of Manitoba and enhancements. I should remind the member that we have significantly enhanced dialysis services over the last couple of years. I believe it is close to $20 million of enhancements. We are now seeing services expanded into communities like Ashern and elsewhere. I encourage the member just to be a little bit more patient, and I think he will receive some additional information shortly.

Mr. Dewar: Madam Speaker, why do we have to wait for an election in Selkirk to get these machines? My question is to the minister: how many machines, and when?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, again the member does not listen. We have been expanding dialysis services over the last few years. We have significantly increased funding for dialysis services. We have expanded those services into a number of other communities in Manitoba, and again, I am sure that is one reason that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) and his colleagues supported the 1999 budget because of the $194 million for health care, which includes expansion of dialysis services in the province of Manitoba. The $5 million set aside in our capital program affects more than one site, and I expect that we will be able to provide information on that very, very shortly.

Meeting Request–USSC

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, last Tuesday the Resident and Family Council of Deer Lodge hospital met, expecting, and on their agenda was noted the expectation, that a senior representative of USSC would be present to answer some of their many questions about the quality of food that their relatives and they, themselves, in the case of the patients on the committee, had to endure at Deer Lodge. The USSC representative did not show up again. The last time someone was there was last October, in spite of promising month by month by month to be there.

Can the Minister of Health tell us why USSC is unwilling or apparently unable to have people at the family council to answer questions at Deer Lodge hospital?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, again, I will certainly look into that issue. I am not aware that there is any reason that USSC would not appear or would not provide information. But I just repeat what I had to say on Thursday because, again, this same member came here Thursday implying that media was going to be banned from Deer Lodge hospital. That is not the case. He came here implying that Princess Anne was going to eat a meal at Deer Lodge hospital. That is not the case.

If there is one thing that is consistent with the member for Crescentwood, it is the pattern of inaccuracies day in, day out, issue after issue after issue. So, again, it is embarrassing for him I know. I know it is embarrassing for his Leader. I will certainly report back on this issue, and I will be awfully surprised if the information provided is anywhere near accurate again.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, can the minister not see that having Mr. Tim Duprey as the president and chairperson of USSC is a fundamental conflict of interest for the patients and families of Deer Lodge hospital who are seeking to improve the quality of meals there, yet Mr. Duprey, in his role, is seeking to cut the costs to meet a budget that is already far out of sight?

Is he not clearly in a conflict of interest?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, can the member for Crescentwood not see that the board of USSC has the chief executive officers of all nine urban hospitals on that board? They are as interested as anybody in providing quality, nutritional food to the patients who are in those hospitals that they are responsible for managing. So, Mr. Duprey, along with the other eight CEOs, all are members of this organization.

As I say, they are extremely committed to providing nutritional, quality food in the most cost-effective way possible so that any additional resources that are freed up are put directly to patient care in our hospital facilities.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, can the minister not see that the fact that USSC has not attended, in spite of many requests, when Mr. Duprey is on their board, is clear evidence the USSC is not accountable to the patients and their families at Deer Lodge hospital, but in fact Mr. Duprey, in his role there, is in some manner preventing accountability, because they are not coming to answer questions? Does he not understand that?

Mr. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, I just have to be repetitive for the member for Crescentwood, and I hope he listens this time. When you have the nine CEOs of the hospitals on the board of Urban Shared Services Corporation, they are also the customer. They are the ones receiving the food at the facilities that they manage, and they are as interested and committed as anybody to providing quality, nutritional food to the patients in their facilities.

They do patient surveys, something that the member for Crescentwood does not have an opportunity to do. They survey the patient, and they show that month in and month out the approval rating for the food continues to go up. They also compare the surveys to the previous food system, and the surveys show a higher approval rating today for the revised food system.

So those CEOs, including Mr. Duprey and the eight other CEOs of all the hospitals like Health Sciences Centre, like St. Boniface, like Grace, are all committed to providing quality, nutritional food to the patients in the hospitals here in Winnipeg.

R.M. of Wallace

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): A new question, Madam Speaker. Last week I tabled a letter from Reeve Penner of the R.M. of Wallace indicating his concerns about pressure that was brought to bear on the minister of municipal affairs by the then Deputy Premier, the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey). I wonder if the minister of municipal affairs has had time to review his memory and review Reeve Penner's letter and see whether he does not owe an apology to the House for denying that the pressure was brought on him by the then Deputy Premier?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): It just amazes me at the erroneous information this member continues to bring to the House on all matters, and this one included. The member does not even do his homework properly because in the letter it alleges that Mr. Plaisier is my brother-in-law. I have no relationship with Mr. Plaisier whatsoever. The whole letter is just as erroneous, and the member opposite does not do his homework to ensure that his information is accurate and complete.

Mr. Sale: Is the minister then saying that the reeve of the R.M. of Wallace is a liar and that the member for Arthur-Virden, who told eight people in a meeting that he brought the pressure to bear, is also lying? What is the minister of municipal affairs saying?

Mr. Derkach: The truth is that we set the order aside in order to allow for a mediator to try and work out an arrangement between the Town of Virden and the Municipality of Wallace. There was not an infinite amount of time that could be allowed for this matter to go on. On several occasions the mediator did attempt to resolve the matter between the town and the municipality. In the end, even after extending the period for an additional month, the mediator did make another attempt, and it was not possible, and so, consequently, the order was imposed with regard to the issue of annexation. Ample time was given to resolve this. As a matter of fact, this issue went back far before the annexation order was given. So both jurisdictions had ample time to resolve the issue without it going through the annexation process and the Municipal Board.

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Mr. Sale: I want to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) if he would convene a meeting of the councillors of the R.M. of Wallace, the former Deputy Premier and the minister of municipal affairs and review what happened at the meeting of December 7 in the then Deputy Premier's office where he confirmed that he had brought pressure to bear on the minister of municipal affairs to cause him to go back to the Municipal Board order. Will the Premier convene that meeting?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I would put the member for Arthur-Virden's (Mr. Downey) credibility up against that of the member for Crescentwood any day of the week. Day after day after day the member for Crescentwood brings false information to this House. That letter that he tabled contains the blatant inaccuracy to suggest that the former deputy mayor of Virden is the brother-in-law of the member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach), something that any idiot could have checked out in two minutes, but that fool over there from Crescentwood would not take the opportunity.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Beauchesne Citation 484 is very clear in terms of referring to members in debate. Madam Speaker, in my years in the House I have seen comments put across the floor, heated comments, phrases that are used, but I have seldom seen the kind of personal attack just made by the Premier. Comments like "fool" and "idiot" have no place in this House, and I would like to ask you to bring the Premier to order and have him apologize to this House for those totally inappropriate comments.

Madam Speaker: The honourable government House leader, on the same point of order.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, there is no doubt that from time to time in this House debates become heated and things are said, but it is incumbent upon all members when they are bringing information to this House that they do their utmost to confirm its accuracy. It is fairly evident that the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale), time and time again, does not do that but brings information that has not been checked out to this House, and certainly it creates a great deal of frustration. One almost would think he does it deliberately just to enhance his weak arguments.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, indeed Beauchesne 484, I believe, indicates that all members should be referred to as honourable members. I would agree that the honourable member for Thompson does have a point of order, and I would ask the honourable First Minister to withdraw those words.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I should have called him an honourable fool, but I will withdraw those comments. Unequivocally, I will withdraw those comments.

Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable First Minister.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, for one very short question.

Mr. Sale: That was the least unequivocal withdrawal I have ever heard, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member was recognized for a question.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, in regard to the Wallace and Virden issue, the town has sent a brief of about one and a half inches which has been reviewed thoroughly by our staff. The CFO of the chief administrative officer of the municipality comprised the letter which Reeve Penner read and signed. I would like the Premier to confirm that he is calling Reeve Penner a liar in this House.

Mr. Filmon: Absolutely not, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.