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Hon. Darren Praznik (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, there is a fair bit of work that has to be accomplished today. First of all, I would like you to canvass the House to find if there is unanimous consent for the Committee of Supply to sit in two sections in Rooms 254 and 255 respectively while the House is considering bills.

Madam Speaker: I apologize. I was otherwise distracted. I wonder if the honourable government House leader would repeat the announcement.

Mr. Praznik: I am requesting the unanimous consent of the House for a number of things. The first is for the Committee of Supply to sit in two sections in Rooms 254 and 255 respectively while the House is considering bills.

Madam Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House for the Committee of Supply to sit in two sections in Rooms 254 and 255 respectively while the House is considering bills? [agreed]

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I am also seeking unanimous consent for the Estimates of the Department of Finance to be considered in Room 255 while the Estimates of the Department of Justice are considered in Room 254.

Madam Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House for the Estimates of the Department of Finance to be considered in Room 255 and the Estimates of the Department of Justice to be considered in Room 254? [agreed]

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I would also seek leave of the House for the Estimates of the Departments of Northern Affairs, Consumer and Corporate Affairs, Agriculture, and the Children and Youth Secretariat to be considered in Room 255 on completion of the Estimates of the Department of Finance and other Estimates originally assigned to that section of the Committee of Supply.

Madam Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House for the Estimates of Northern Affairs, Consumer and Corporate Affairs, Agriculture, and the Children and Youth Secretariat to be considered in Room 255 upon completion of the Estimates of the Department of Finance and other Estimates that were originally scheduled to that section of the Committee of Supply? [agreed]

Mr. Praznik: I would also seek unanimous consent for the Estimates of the Department of Natural Resources, Community Support Programs, Urban Economic Development Initiatives, Canada-Manitoba Infrastructure Works and Economic Development Partnership Agreements, and Employee Benefits and Other Payments to be considered in Room 254 on completion of the Estimates of the Department of Justice and other Estimates originally assigned to that section of the Committee of Supply.

Madam Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House for the Estimates of Natural Resources, Community Support Programs, Urban Economic Development Initiatives, Canada-Manitoba Infrastructure Works and Economic Development Partnership Agreements, and Employee Benefits and Other Payments to be considered in Room 254 upon completion of the Estimates of the Department of Justice and other Estimates originally assigned to that section of the Committee of Supply? [agreed]

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I would also like to inform the House that the meeting of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments, originally scheduled for this evening, Tuesday, July 6, 1999, to consider Bill 26 has been cancelled. I would also like to inform the House that the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations will be called for tomorrow evening, Wednesday, July 7, 1999, at 7 p.m., to consider Bill 26.

Madam Speaker: For the information of the House, the Standing Committee on Law Amendments scheduled for this evening, Tuesday, July 6, at 7 p.m., to consider Bill 26 has been cancelled. The Standing Committee on Industrial Relations has been scheduled for Wednesday evening, July 7, tomorrow evening at 7 p.m., to consider Bill 26.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I also wish to announce that the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs will meet this afternoon at 5 p.m., and I am not sure if that requires the consent of the House to sit standing committee concurrently. I believe it does, so I would seek leave of the House to have the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs meet at 5 p.m., or following the completion of the Estimates process should it take longer than 5 p.m., to consider Bill 25, the clause-by-clause consideration.

Madam Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House for the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs to meet at 5 p.m. this afternoon to consider Bill 25 clause by clause? [agreed]

Mr. Praznik: Before I move the Estimates resolution, I would ask, upon following moving into Estimates for the two sections of the Committee of Supply to begin their work, with respect to work in the Chamber for the regular sitting of the House that you would call debate on second readings for the following bills: Bills 36, 37, 38, 39, 35 and 43, to then be followed by calling for third readings, the bills as they appear on the Order Paper for third reading.

As well, and I look to the opposition House leader (Mr. Ashton), following that, if we have not yet reached the time for private members' hour, to call the government motion with respect to amending various bills for the purposes of numbering. That matter has to be dealt with as well.

Madam Speaker, the last instruction, we will just omit that. We will not call that motion today. Following the completion of those third readings, if the hour has not yet reached 5 p.m., I would ask if the House could then call it 5 p.m. in the Chamber and proceed to private members' hour, in which case I would ask at that time you would call Resolution 38. I believe it is moved by the member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin).

Madam Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House, provided all matters assigned to be dealt with in the Chamber are completed prior to 5 p.m., that we move into private members' hour to deal exclusively with private members' Resolution 38 proposed by the honourable member for The Pas? [agreed]

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Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): I move, seconded by the member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs for 5 p.m. this afternoon be amended as follows: the member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings) for the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson); the member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan) for the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou); the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey) for the member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Vodrey).

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I would move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), that this House, as agreed, do now resolve itself into two sections of the Committee of Supply, one to meet in Room 254 and one to meet in 255, to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Most Gracious Majesty.

Madam Speaker: On the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Stefanson), Bill 36, The Registered Nurses Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur les infirmières), standing in the name of the honourable member for Transcona.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, I am prepared to yield to my colleague the member for Kildonan, who will place on the record our comments about this particular piece of legislation.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise on behalf of fellow MLAs in our party to indicate that we will be supporting this bill's passage at second reading. My comments will not be lengthy in this regard. Certainly the amendments and the changes to The Registered Nurses Act have been reviewed by our caucus and ourselves, together with the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses. Most of the changes contained therein are in conjunction and in relation to almost all of the professional bodies legislation that has been amended recently. That is not to say that in some areas we perhaps would not do better or do different. But certainly in practice we support the bill, and we do not want to unduly hold up passage of this legislation.

I do want to indicate that with regard to nurses it is interesting that in the province and at the civic level there are celebrations that take place. There are certain weeks that are designated as symbolizing attention towards a particular group or body–firefighters week, multiple sclerosis week, diabetes week, and the like. I note that in the pattern of this government that they sort of have a pattern. Every four years this particular administration, just preceding an election, the government discovers health care and indeed they discover nurses. This legislation and many of the actions and the announcements of the present minister are part of nurses month by this particular government. [interjection]

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wonder if you would call the member for Assiniboia (Mrs. McIntosh) to order. I cannot even hear myself talk above her rantings.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Environment): The member indicated that they approve the bill in principle but there are certain things they would change, and I think we would appreciate knowing what changes they would make. It would be relevant to the–

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Might I ask honourable members wanting to carry on a conversation to do so in the loge, though. I am having difficulty hearing the honourable member at this time.

The honourable member, to carry on.

Mr. Chomiak: Just in that regard, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do not mind. In fact, the parley back and forth is generally something that we do in this Chamber, but for the past few moments I literally have not been able to hear my voice on these speakers because of the comments from the member for Assiniboia (Mrs. McIntosh). So I thank you for your admonishing and pointing that out, and I certainly look forward to her comments on this legislation during the course of this debate.

So, as I was saying, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this government every four years ought to designate and they do designate a month or a period of time, and it is the nurses month. This is nurses month and it precedes a provincial election, as does the legislation. You know, we have seen a revelation, that the government has decided–after we have been imploring them for years to hire nurses and after having laid off over a thousand nurses, we see the minister stand up this last month and say we believe in nurses and we have a nurses' retention fund.

We see the government standing up and saying we are now going to go hand in hand and march with the nurses to try to make a better health care system, after having spent 11 years, albeit with a period of time just before the election when it is an exception, having spent 11 years doing everything in their power to diminish and denigrate the role of nurses in our society. I am afraid that after 11 years, the confidence of nurses and others in our society is not going to come back by virtue of this discovering of nurses, the nurses month that the government has now entered into.

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The next bill will be of occasion to discuss this even further. The very government where the minister said there was no role in the future for LPNs, Mr. Deputy Speaker, after imploring and begging the government, after having nurses come to the Chamber and the minister refusing to meet with them, saying there is no future for LPNs, all of a sudden the government has discovered LPNs. We welcome that even if it is a deathbed conversion, even if it is a month or two before the election.

We will even accept the fact that this government, even for a period of time before an election, discovers the role and the value of nurses in our society. We welcome that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and we are supportive of that because, frankly, for too long in Manitoba, nurses have been denigrated; for too long they have been downsized; for too long they have not been appreciated; for too long they have been laid off; for too long they have not been recognized for the long hours and their dedication; for too long they have not been seen as the linchpins and the very core of our health care system; for too long they have been under the stewardship and leadership of the member–there is no stewardship, the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) adds–under the lack of planning and the difficulties under the member for Tuxedo (Mr. Filmon), and we welcome a recognition by this government this month of nurses and the role and the function that they play in society.

So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we do not have a major problem with this legislation. We certainly look forward to its passage, and we certainly look forward–[interjection] The member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach) says we are supporting everything. Let me just point out, we do support nurses, and we support your support of nurses this month. For 10 years, 10 long years, this government has denigrated, has done everything it can do to destroy the role and the function of nurses, and now, into an election campaign, this month, this year, they have discovered nurses. We welcome that conversion.

So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, let it not be mistaken. It is not a conversion on our part. Indeed, it is a conversion on the part of members opposite to agreeing to our position, our consistent position for 11 years. If the member wants to check Hansard and if the member wants to check how often we stood up in this Chamber and said do not lay off those nurses; you are going to have a problem in the future; do not downsize them; do something about maintaining nurses; do something about the role of nurses; do something about the function of nurses; do something about recognizing nurses, and it went for nought.

All we saw was layoffs and minister after minister, indeed how many, Mr. Deputy Speaker, one, two, three, four standing up and saying, well, statistics say we have more nurses per capita than any other place in the universe and consequently that is the reality.

We watched that for 10 and a half years and now in the 11th year, in the last month, the dying months of a mandate of a government that is clinging to power, that is advertising, it is using public dollars to advertise its commitment to health care, in the dying moments of a government they discover nurses, and we welcome their conversion. Never let it be said that we have not been consistent.

On that basis, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we certainly support this legislation and look forward to its speedy passage and completion in this House.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Bill 36 is a bill which I think has the support of all three political parties obviously. We met with the nurses organization and had some dialogue in terms of their thoughts, what their expectations were, and even though it might not necessarily be 100 percent in terms of meeting all expectations, it does have the principle of what was being requested, from what I have been led to believe, so we have absolutely no problem in terms of it going into committee.

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations be amended as follows: Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) for Burrows (Mr. Martindale), for Wednesday, July 7, 1999, for 7 p.m.

I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments be amended as follows: Burrows (Mr. Martindale) for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak); Radisson (Ms. Cerilli) for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen); Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk); Osborne (Ms. McGifford) for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers), for Wednesday, July 7, 1999, for 7 p.m.

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Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): The cynicism across the way is a little bit overwhelming thinking that they are going to take credit for some of the nursing decisions in the province. I think they seem to have forgotten that there has been a nurse on this side for over a year now, and I think the nurse on this side is helping to influence some of the decisions that are happening over here.

I have a strong background as a nurse. I started as a general duty nurse and worked my way through the system in various aspects. I spent a considerable amount of time in nursing education through continuing education. I spent time working as a researcher with physicians as well as with nurses. I spent some time as a special project nurse, actually looking at the whole aspect of what is a nurse and how nurses make critical decisions during their workday.

That was a seven-year project where I had an opportunity to work in every area of the hospital and learned a lot about what made up a nurse in various areas, what made up part of her decision making or his decision making, how that nurse captured their practice in documentation, and ways we could look at enhancing all of that within nursing. I spent my last four years as a nursing administrator on an evening shift at St. Boniface Hospital, covering some very, very interesting situations and having to make some very critical decisions that either affected nurses, physicians, patients, or their families.

I have had very rich experiences with colleagues, with patients, and with their families. I, in fact, remember the first patient that was very, very special to me when I first graduated. When I first graduated, I worked on a neurosciences unit as a registered nurse. In those days not a lot of people wanted to work on an area like that, because it was just too frightening. As new grads, we were faced with some pretty interesting challenges on a ward that saw a lot of head injuries, gunshot wounds, spinal cord injuries, various neurological problems.

I remember the first patient I had who was a head injured patient. He ended up being on that ward for a very, very long time. His name, we will say for right now, is John. John ended up being a very, very special person to many of us there, because at one point we thought he was going to die from his severe head injury. With a lot of very good nursing care, this particular man survived. He left all of us with an incredible lot of good memories.

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Within the last few years, I had noticed an obituary in the paper, and it was John's. It was interesting to remember back to when I knew him 20 years ago or 20-some years ago and to think what an impact a patient like that could make to a young nurse that was just starting out in her career. I still have pictures of him at home in my photo album. I still remember how enriching an experience it was for me to spend time looking after this man and knowing that it was good nursing care that kept him alive, from the point of being unconscious to having a tracheostomy, to needing an incredible amount of nursing care, to teaching him how to walk again, to teaching him how to eat again, to teaching him how to relate to people again.

Besides John, I have also had many experiences watching patients die, holding dying patients in my arms, holding families in my arms when we had to tell them that their loved one had just died. I have taken numerous families to the morgue to spend time with their loved one, but prior to doing that, I, as a nurse, had to go into the morgue, locate the patient, prepare the patient, make the patient look presentable to the family so that they can have the quality moments that a family deserves with their loved ones in those times.

I have had to go to a morgue to find a diseased baby. Once I found the baby, I had to dress that baby. I had to wrap it in a blanket, carry it through the hospital and place it in its mother's arms. After spending half an hour with the mother and the father and the priest, praying with them, helping them to cherish their last moment with their child, I then had to take the baby from the mother's arms and carry the baby back to the morgue and leave the baby there.

I have had to resuscitate patients. I have had to change innumerable dressings. I have had to work with families of Alzheimer's patients. I have had to work with mothers going through difficult labour. I have had the joy of working in a maternity area where you see an incredible amount of good, good things happening. I have had to work on medical wards where very young people have gone through some very horrendous illnesses. So if the members opposite think that those of us over here do not have a clue about what nursing is all about, then you are not listening to what I am saying if that is what you are thinking.

I have had more nursing experience than any of you over there, and there is nobody there that can tell me what a nurse is or is not, what a nurse goes through. The empathy on this side of the House, the understanding on this side of the House, is definitely there and is being put to good use right now in working with nurses in this province.

I have worked with some very incredible people in nursing. It has been a very exciting profession to see some of the dynamic men and women that are part of our health care system. Whether they have been in the hospital or at the university or within the regulatory bodies of nursing, there are some very, very talented people out there who contribute a great amount to what makes our health care system work.

Expert caring is the core of nursing and it is really true, because it is nursing that often is the glue that holds a lot of things together. When a registered nurse asks a patient how they are feeling, she or he just does not just take their word for it. In the time it takes to have a brief conversation, the R.N. conducts dozens of routine assessments. When you go in to give a diabetic an insulin injection, you do not just walk in, give an injection and walk out of the room. You look at how the patient looks. You look at what their mannerisms are. You see how alert they are. You look at their skin. You look at their eyes. You are talking to them. You are looking at them visually.

An assessment takes many, many facets of observation. Registered nurses provide direct patient care in hospitals, homes and communities, and their expertise is vital to our health care system. Their expertise is valued and respected within our health care system. Registered nurses are very cost-effective health care providers with a wealth of knowledge. There are many opportunities for nurses to take a lot of the roles within health care and strengthen our health care system.

So to see a new act at this point in time, I know, is very exciting for nurses, because I have been there as they have been working to put this draft together. There is a great deal of excitement out there by the registered nurses to see that their act, with its changes, is now going to be implemented. In this era of health care reform, strengthening the role of registered nurses is critical to all Manitobans.

So what is a registered nurse? It has changed over the years. When I went in as a student, it was a three-year program. Now we have a four-year university program which, with some intervention and encouragement by this government, is now or can be for some students just over a three-year program where we can graduate more registered nurses and have them out working in our workforce.

Nurses are highly skilled professionals who work in partnership with other members of the health care team, including physicians, therapists, technicians and pharmacists. The one unique thing about nursing is that they are the ones who are there 24 hours a day. As nurses, we actually learn to do many things, dispense drugs, fix televisions, serve food, walk patients, move patients on stretchers, carry equipment through the hospital. It is a multitalented level of person who actually is a nurse. From large urban hospitals to community clinics or remote nursing stations, registered nurses provide care whenever and wherever they are needed.

When we look at the calibers of nursing or the different groups of nurses that are out there, we have registered nurses, registered psychiatric nurses and licensed practical nurses. All of them have different educational backgrounds and skill sets, but each plays a vital role in providing quality health care. The majority of nurses in Manitoba are registered nurses, but we are seeing an increasing number in licensed practical nurses who are entering training and graduating, and registered psychiatric nurses as well, and there is room for all these categories of nurses within our health care system.

I have strongly believed that, and it is a belief I bring to this government, that there is a role for all those categories of nurses. There is also a role for advanced practice nursing and the exciting possibilities that that could offer to our health care system and to the patients and families that are within that system. So it is an exciting opportunity to look at what advanced practice nursing will actually offer to Manitoba.

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Understanding the needs of clients is essential to providing safe, appropriate care. Registered nurses are there in the middle of the night to call the physician when the nurse has made a full assessment of the patient and deems that it is time to give the doctor a call. Registered nurses co-ordinate all aspects of client care, giving emotional support and ensuring that comfort and treatment needs are met. That is a challenge because there are so many things that nurses have to watch for when looking after a patient, depending on what is actually wrong with that patient.

In addition, registered nurses advocate for the development of client- and family-friendly policies and practices. Sometimes the registered nurse is the best advocate that a patient can have. That did not used to be when I graduated, way back when. Nurses were not allowed to advocate very much for patients. We were not allowed to sit on the beds and put our arms around a sick or dying patient. We were expected in those days to keep our distance in many ways, so it is exciting to see now how nursing has changed and that we have become a much warmer profession and a more accepting profession of recognizing the pain that patients and families go through, and we are now allowed to react to that in a much more sympathetic and empathetic fashion.

Registered nursing is a self-regulated profession, governed in Manitoba by The Registered Nurses Act, which we are about to pass through in an updated format. Registered nurses practise according to standards of practice and are bound by a code of ethics. MARN, the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses, is the regulatory and professional body representing more than 10,500 registered nurses. MARN's mandate is to regulate the practice of registered nurses and to advance the quality of nursing to protect the public interest.

In order to practise nursing in this province, registered nurses must be registered with MARN. Standards for registered nurses' education and practice are set by MARN. The association protects the public interest by ensuring competent and ethical practice by registered nurses by promoting good practice, preventing poor practice, and intervening when necessary.

The profession of registered nursing is both an art and a science, and as a student nurse I can remember sitting with colleagues or fellow students at the time and debating whether it was an art or a science, more of one or more of the other. It was an interesting challenge in those days because nursing has certainly been articulated more clearly as a profession in the last many, many years. But in the days back when, it was certainly one where nobody was quite sure whether to label it an art or a science.

It does focus on the health and well-being of individuals, families and communities. Nurses for a long time have recognized the need and the value and the great opportunities that lie before us to take nursing into the communities, to enhance the community supports and the ensuing benefits that would result from that. Even back in the '70s nurses were talking about health promotion, illness prevention, community nursing, and in my mind there was a lot of vision being demonstrated by that particular profession to showcase exactly what nursing had an opportunity to do and to be and what strong contributors they could be to a healthy health care system and a strong health care system.

Registered nurses are health care professionals who practise as direct-care providers, case managers, administrators, counsellors, child advocates, consultants, educators, researchers and independent practitioners. That is an exciting list of opportunities for nurses which also indicates the great skills that nurses bring to that particular profession and the contributions that they can make to our health care system.

I am glad to see that the challenges that were put forth by nurses back in the '70s are coming to fruition nowadays where we are seeing much more research and practice based on research. We are looking at outcomes of patient care and making practice changes based on outcomes. No longer is care just given because it seemed the right thing to do. It is a questioning profession that is looking at what is right, what works, how can we make it better.

Florence Nightingale in June of 1867, if you want to look at a visionary, made a statement which I think is really interesting. She said: My view is that the ultimate destination of all nursing is the nursing of the sick in their own homes. I look to the abolition of all hospitals but no use to talk about the year 2000.

For a woman of her day, the "Lady with a Lamp," whose name is so synonymous with nursing, it is interesting to see that her vision was so, so far ahead of her time.

The nursing research that is happening nowadays is actually very exciting because nurses are starting to address many, many areas of health care, whether it is psychological, physiological, whether we are looking at how to help women cope with breast cancer, whether we are looking at how to improve the lives for Alzheimer's patients, how we can better improve the life of a patient in their last days, nursing is certainly taking a leading role in much of the changes that are happening within our health care system in terms of addressing the care that is given to patients and the kinds of care that work.

Registered nurses are key members of the health care team in hospitals, community nursing resource centres, outpatient clinics, nursing homes and schools, and in government, corporate and private organizations. They work in a number of areas, including critical care, which is a huge and challenging area. The technological changes that are going on in intensive cares and critical cares are absolutely phenomenal compared to the 1970s and '80s when nurses basically had to look after a patient and an intravenous and maybe a Foley catheter and maybe one machine. You go into a critical care area now, and you have to be a technician. You have to understand technology, unlike anything that has ever happened in the '70s and '80s. The technological changes of the '90s have been phenomenal, and it certainly has had its impact on nursing.

The technological changes, however, do not just end with critical care. They are now carried through to the wards where general duty nurses on medicine, on pediatrics, on surgery, on geriatrics are now challenged not just with providing direct patient care but to also caring for all of the machinery that is now involved in caring for that patient. So the challenges that are impacting nursing with technological changes are huge, just as those technological changes are hugely affecting health care dollars and the need for that.

Emergency nursing is another very challenging area. Fast paced, you never know where your next patient is going; you do not know if you have a code green, yellow or amber coming in. You hear the ambulances coming; you know you have got maybe a code red; and you are set up. It is an area of nursing where nurses deserve an incredible amount of credit for some of the things they have to face. As a nursing supervisor in that area, there were parts of it that I was not even able to face myself. It was very emotionally exhausting in many instances, and you are very grateful for the nurses around you who are able to pick up where you could not continue.

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Maternity nursing, fortunately for most of the time, is an exciting area. There is nothing more exciting than probably watching the birth of a baby. Psychiatry presents its own challenges, and psychiatric nurses certainly face their own challenges within that field. It, too, like many of the others, has become very, very specialized. No longer are we back in the '70s when patients were all sort of the same. Things have changed so much in terms of therapy, treatments, medications, technology, that the nurse from the '70s has had a lot of growth and development to the nurse of today in order to meet the needs of patients.

Geriatrics is, in itself, a challenge now, too. No longer is a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. That changed many years ago because there are such unique challenges within each area that the educational requirements for nurses within each area are highly demanding.

Many R.N.s are also self-employed as independent practitioners who provide direct care, education, consultation and counselling services to a wide variety of clients.

In whatever area or setting in which they work, registered nurses are responsible and accountable for their practice. Registered nurses co-ordinate all aspects of care and assist clients in meeting their health care needs. Most nurses going through training have to learn something called the nursing process, which is a problem-solving process to address problems and issues. Very similar to what probably most of us go through in a problem-solving approach, whether you are in business or whether you are at home trying to make a decision. In nursing it gets a little bit more focused on what relates to nursing. As a student, most nurses terribly disliked the words "nursing diagnosis" and "nursing process;" however, as one graduates and puts the skills to practice, one finally realizes the huge value to be able to go in, assess a patient, and be able to come up with what is actually that nursing diagnosis, not a just a sign or a symptom, but what actually is the problem.

Not very different from many facets to government. It would be so easy with some of the issues to just say: oh, fix that, throw money at that; that ought to fix that particular problem. Whether you are looking at children's issues or health care or roads, you cannot just assume that once you have identified something, it is actually the problem, and that is what the nursing process teaches you. It teaches you to analyze in-depth all of the pieces, and then you take those pieces and you put them together and come up with your diagnosis.

Once you have your nursing diagnosis, you then determine a plan. At the same time you are determining a plan, you are determining how you are going to evaluate to see whether you have reached the outcome that you wanted to achieve. If you do not reach the outcome, you want to achieve, then you go back to square one and start all over again.

Nursing is, indeed, a challenge, and I am honoured to be able to stand up here and to support such a noble profession, to recognize that this legislation that we are passing is something that nursing will appreciate very much. With that, Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity of putting these words on record.

Madam Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? The question before the House is second reading Bill 36, The Registered Nurses Act.

Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion?

An Honourable Member: Agreed.

Madam Speaker: Agreed? Agreed and so ordered.

Madam Speaker: To resume second reading debate, on the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Stefanson), Bill 37, The Licensed Practical Nurses Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur les infirmières auxiliaires), standing in the name of the honourable member for Transcona (Mr. Reid).

Is there leave to permit the bill to remain standing?

An Honourable Member: No.

Madam Speaker: No. Leave has been denied.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to deal with the second of the three acts dealing with the nursing profession in Manitoba. I welcome the opportunity, and I want to indicate that there was a time when members of this House did not believe that an act of this kind would ever come to fruition. Since 1986, the LPNs have been lobbying to have an act of this kind brought forward. Intense lobbying and changes were advocated, and intense lobbying was commenced in the 1990s to try to update the act, but it always met the government's refusal to recognize the role and function of LPNs.

Madam Speaker, I certainly enjoyed the comments of the member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger). I happen to agree with most of her comments, and I found it very heartfelt. I certainly appreciate her comments. I wish that those sentiments had been expressed to the government for the past 11 years. I wish the member could have joined me when I sat in the basements of nurses in Transcona who had been laid off or in St. Boniface who had been laid off or the nurses who were in tears, because they could not do their work at the Health Sciences Centre because of layoffs. I wish the member could have joined me in the rallies that we attended here in the committee room that the minister refused to attend where LPNs said: We cannot, we have been laid off, we cannot do our jobs, our patients are suffering. I wish the member could have joined me when I had individuals and patients talked to me about having to hire private-duty nurses to go into the hospitals to care for their loved ones, because the nurses were run off their feet.

If there is one consistent thing that I have heard as the Health critic since 1993, it is nurses are run off their feet. The member for Charleswood knows that and members opposite know that. If there has been one consistent theme and requirement in this House, it is that we needed to give nurses the resources and the ability to do their job. That is what has been lacking, and that is what this bill will–I am not sure in the hands of this government, because, frankly, it is a month before or two before an election. We know what the government commitments prior to an election amount to, but certainly this has been long advocated by LPNs who have advocated for an expansion in their scope and practice to carry out their abilities and functions.

The member for Charleswood talks about the ability of nurses to analyze the process, and perhaps the member for Charleswood and members of the government could analyze this process for me. When Madam Connie Curran came to town in 1992 and said: We do not need LPNs; we need to lay off nurses. The government paid her $4 million, plus $800,000 tax free U.S. [interjection] Oh, the member for Assiniboia (Mrs. McIntosh) says this is revisionist history. It is, in fact, real history, not the kind of history that was eliminated under the government in the school system.

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I might add, Madam Speaker, the government did exactly what Madam Connie Curran said to do, and that is lay off nurses and, in particular, lay off LPNs. The Health Sciences Centre laid off LPNs and St. Boniface Hospital laid off LPNs. They closed the schools and then it went to the community hospitals. We stood up in this House day after day after day saying there has to be a role. There is a need and a function for LPNs in our system. The previous previous minister said nothing and the previous minister said they are going to have to do something else.

Now, in the dying days of a government that is clinging to power, that will do virtually anything to get re-elected, the government has now recognized that there is a role and function for LPNs. Now what political double-talk is this when this government says, when the member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger) said you cannot throw money at a problem, they are complex. I agree, and that is why for 11 years we have been proposing solutions and options. In the 11th year of this government, they announce a budget for the first time that takes a comprehensive look at health care, and what does it do? It throws money at health care problems, and they brag about it every day in this Chamber. Do they brag about the programs they put in place for the past 10 and a half years? No, because those were cuts. But now going into an election, they find the resources to send the money in. So who is cynical at this point?

Do you doubt why we are so skeptical of this government? Does the member for Charleswood not know that in 1995 the government promised $600 million in capital to institutions and that promptly after the election cancelled it? Now most of those projects are being announced again. Madam Speaker, of course, we welcome the announcements, and, of course, we vote in favour of it. We have been waiting for it for four and a half years.

It is passing strange. I find it passing strange that in the 11th year, in the final months of this government, they would all of a sudden find the resources to recognize nurses. [interjection] Perhaps the member for Assiniboia will have her opportunity during debate to point out all of her contributions to health care for the past several years. I look forward to that opportunity.

Dealing with LPNs, I want to indicate that we met with the LPNs as well. If members want me to analyze the process and go back and show you the six or seven inches of correspondence that I have from LPNs urging us to do today what the government has done, and the correspondence goes back to 1993, then perhaps members would understand. If they want me to do that I am quite happy and content to do that. But the fact is, we have lobbied consistently to expand the scope of practice of LPNs and finally, after initially and after consistently denying the role of LPNs in the system, the government has now brought in a bill that actually recognizes that role.

I want to take it further, because we have great difficulty accepting the assurances of this government. We have asked, even despite this bill being before us and even though the government has said, the new minister has said, and I will take him at his word, that he now believes in LPNs and he believes in a role and functions for LPNs, we have said, show us, show us by ensuring that LPNs have a role and function in our acute care hospitals and our tertiary care facilities. Because members opposite may not know it, but we have been approached by nurses and by administrators and others saying there is a role for LPNs in those facilities as well, not just isolating them in the community and rural Manitoba, but allowing them to function in acute care and full services hospitals.

So, Madam Speaker, this is the second of three bills. This is part of the process of government recognition of nurses month under the Filmon government, a recognition after 11 years that nurses exist, have a role and function, and can play an important part, an integral part of our health care system. I would be less cynical if members opposite had joined me in the rallies that we had at this Legislature when LPNs came here and said: do not eliminate our jobs; do not eliminate our teaching positions. I wish members opposite would have joined us when we did that. I wish they would have been there, but they were not.

You know, Madam Speaker, I know they were not there, because in the Committee Room 255 we invited the Minister of Health to address the LPNs and say what role and function the LPNs would have in a future in Manitoba. The minister not only refused to come but in Question Period later on virtually said there was no role and no future for LPNs in Manitoba. That was then. That was the real Conservative government. What other way can we judge it than to look at the 11 years of cuts, 11 years of not recognizing the role of nurses, 11 years of downgrading the role, 11 years of part-time jobs, 11 years of going to the States, 11 years of limiting enrollment, 11 years of not recognizing the role and function? And now, in the 11th year, in what is maybe the last month and what is clearly the last session of this government, this government that is dying and clinging to power's office, they recognize that there is a role and a function for nurses.

We see the legislation. But we support it and we welcome it. If it takes an election to get the government to recognize the reality, then so be it. You know, we accepted the budget even though we do not place a lot of confidence in the government's ability to deliver, given their track record, but we accepted the budget because we saw a lot of programs and a lot of expenditures and a lot of improvements that we have been advocating consistently for a number of years.

Of course, we had to consistently be consistent with our principles in what is right for Manitoba, and we supported that budget. We are doing what is right for Manitoba by supporting this legislation, particularly the LPN legislation, which, frankly, I never thought would see the light of day under this regime, and I suspect the LPNs did not either. I know members opposite recognize that, particularly those in rural and northern portions of our province who see the incredible role that LPNs play in those facilities. What we are saying is we want them to have a role to play, not just there but in all of Manitoba in the tertiary and in the acute care facilities and an expanded health care system and in partnership with all of the nursing professions.

I think that the significance of this act is that it expands the scope of practice for licensed practical nurses, something that we have had in this Legislature by way of resolution and by way of question. We have brought it forward, and we were denied that opportunity by this government.

So I ask you, Madam Speaker, when the government denies it and denies it and denies it and then in the 11th year of a dying mandate, in fact, a mandate that, in my view, is no longer legitimate, but beyond their four years, beyond their four years when they bring in legislation of this kind, I guess we are a tad skeptical, but we welcome it, and we support the government on it. We have always and consistently, on this side of the House, done what we thought has been right for the health care of Manitobans. I dare say, had the government listened to the counsel provided by members on this side of the House, we would not be in the hallway medicine crisis that we are in.

You know, Madam Speaker, day after day in the House, the minister stands up and says, our waiting lists are no longer the longest in Canada.

Well, you know what? It was just a few months ago that they were the longest, but now, following our–you know, Madam Speaker, three years ago we proposed a specific plan for reducing waiting lists in CAT scans, MRIs, and ultrasounds. The government finally implemented it and now says, well, we do not have the longest waiting list.

Well, thank heavens, thank the parliamentary system that there is an election every four or five years, because otherwise those programs would not have seen the light of day. The last time the government recognized nurses was, oh, just over four years ago, in March of 1995, before the last election. Now it is July and it is fairly clear that we are close to an election. Indeed, there would have been an election last month–if the Premier (Mr. Filmon) was not totally dictated by polls, there would have been an election. There should have been an election.

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So we see this legislation. We welcome it. We support this legislation. I wanted to comment on the comments of the member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger), again outlining her role and function as a nurse and the passion with which she delivered those comments, and I certainly welcomed it. I wonder, where were those comments over the past 11 years? Where was that support when we were standing up in this House and saying, do not let Connie Curran cut all those nurses?

Where were those voices when hundreds of nurses were let off at the Health Sciences Centre? Where were those voices when hundreds were laid off at St. Boniface Hospital? Misericordia Hospital was closed down by this government. Where were those voices about the nurses who are left in limbo? About the surgeries that could not be done? Where are the voices of this government right now when beds have been closed this summer at ICU because they cannot find nurses because the government laid off a thousand nurses and nurses are not willing to come here and take part-time work and face the prospects of being laid off again by a government who have a track record of promising something during an election campaign and then cancelling it following the election? Where are those voices?

Will those voices be there if there is a general election and this bunch is re-elected? My fellow New Democrats here raise the point of the Chemical Withdrawal Unit. Talk about cynicism. The government brings a political bill, a bill before this House obligating people to receive addiction training, talk about expanding addiction training, and then close for the summer the Chemical Withdrawal Unit at the Health Sciences Centre. Madam Speaker, does one not see that there is a tendency and that we are a bit and a tad skeptical of pronouncements by this government?

Now, members opposite say, oh, these problems are complex. You know, Madam Speaker, of course, they are complex, and, of course, they require complex solutions. But you are not going to solve these problems if you denigrate the role of nurses, if you lay off a thousand nurses, if you tell nurses they are not wanted, if you tell nurses they should be part time, if you tell nurses that they are overpaid. If you tell nurses that–how and why are you going to even begin to solve the problems when you have spent 11 years downgrading the role of nurses? Now, on the road to Damascus, on the road to an election, you all of a sudden awake and say: oh, but now we understand that nurses have complex jobs and the world has changed and they have needs and functions; we now understand that.

You understand that at a time when every province in the country is trying to attract nurses and when most provinces have recognized it and dealt with it earlier. We had a proposal several years ago to hire more nurses in Manitoba, even if you could not find a specific role and function in order to maintain them here, so that we had a reservoir of nurses when the shortage came. Where did that recommendation go? Nowhere. But now, a month before an election, you put together a fund that is going to somehow attract nurses when every other jurisdiction has already gone ahead and done it or is doing it.

An Honourable Member: No criteria developed.

Mr. Chomiak: Well, of course, no criteria are developed because it is only an election ploy. Now they have put people in place. Well, of course, it is an election ploy. When you are waiting 11 years for programs and you see something in the last month, what else can one conclude? Was there a plan? Was there a process in place? No, the minister had an announcement, and then they announced the group was going to meet.

So I welcome the comments from the member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger); I welcome the member opposite's support of nurses. I am glad that they now understand there is a role and function for nurses; there is a role and function for LPNs in our health care system.

An Honourable Member: Late.

Mr. Chomiak: It is a tad late, but better late than never. Indeed, it has just been pointed out to me that the act says that it come in–even I am not so cynical as to believe that the fact that the legislation is going to come in on a day fixed by proclamation. Even I am not so cynical to believe the government would not carry it out–

An Honourable Member: Years and years of legislation that has not been proclaimed.

Mr. Chomiak: And the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) rightly points out that there are years and years of legislation that has not been proclaimed.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Environment): Repeatedly, all day long the NDP heckle, and we say very little. Any time we do heckling, they come on a point of order.

But just now the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) has been heckling more than I was earlier. He rose on a point of order about me, but not her. I do not know why. Maybe it is because he does not remember the rules apply to them as well.

But a point of order, the member for Wellington is making it impossible for us to hear what the Health critic–whatever his constituency is. We cannot hear him because the member for Wellington is heckling. I think maybe the rules apply to both sides of the House, not just this side. Could you call her to order, please, Madam Speaker? Thank you.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, on the same point of order.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On the same alleged point of order, I have read Beauchesne on a few occasions, Madam Speaker, but I have never seen any section that is even remotely connected with the comments put forward by the minister. In fact, it fit more into the classification of a schoolyard dispute, and I would ask you to call her to order. She seems to be rising on numerous occasions today on these sorts of things. I do not know why she is so agitated, but this is nothing to do with our rules. If she is that frustrated, I would suggest she take her frustrations out in other ways rather than stand up repeatedly in this House on points of order that have absolutely no merit.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable Minister of Environment (Mrs. McIntosh), I believe the honourable member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) was coaching the honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) perhaps and not allegedly heckling the honourable member for Kildonan, and, therefore, the honourable minister did not have a point of order.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, thank you for your ruling and for clarifying to the Minister of Environment. I cannot hear myself again because the member for Assiniboia (Mrs. McIntosh) is again chortling. But I want to say that the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) is an excellent coach and has provided me with invaluable advice not only during the course of my legislative career, but during the course of this debate when she pointed out a significant section of this act.

Madam Speaker, this is positive legislation and I want to deal with the positive aspects of it. For too long in Manitoba, we have used nurses incorrectly, inappropriately. Probably the single biggest change that could occur in our health care system would be restore confidence on the part of nurses in the health care system that would restore their faith in the health care system and allow them to undertake their duties and their functions the way they have been trained and the way they have done so for a hundred years. If this legislation, together with the other professional legislation dealing with nurses, contributes in some small way, and I think it will, towards improving the situation and the confidence level for nurses, we certainly welcome and support that.

We certainly welcome the government's conversion and recognition that there is a role and function for LPNs. We welcome this legislation. I am prepared to share with any member opposite the copious volumes of correspondence between the LPN Association and our caucus and our caucus and the government, demanding this legislation, requesting this legislation, pushing for this legislation. I am prepared to provide copies of the numerous occasions in this House when we on this side of the House have asked numerous ministers of Health to proclaim and to expand and to deal with this legislation to provide for an expanded role and function of LPNs to work up to their capacity, and on that basis we certainly think this is a positive development. I think this legislation will be passed and I do not think I am inaccurate to say that this legislation will be passed unanimously by all members of the House.

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I think it goes some way towards telling Manitobans and telling nurses, in particular, that we recognize their role and their function, their contribution, that we are looking forward to a future of working with nurses and having nurses work with us and having nurses lead us in some ways into the new era of a different health care system, that we will look to their advice and we will look to their assistance in developing a better and an improved health care system, and that we welcome their role and responsibility.

This kind of legislation, passed unanimously by this Chamber, I think, will go some way towards healing some of the wounds and some of the very serious problems and difficulties that have occurred in this province over the past number of years. We have tried over the years to be a positive factor in improving conditions for nurses in Manitoba. We think this bill will go some direction towards doing that, and we intend to allow this bill to pass and to support this bill and support the role of LPNs. I think it is a significant day for LPNs, as it is for R.N.s, and as it is for registered psychiatric nurses that this Chamber recognizes their role and function and their expanded role and function.

But now the real work begins for whomever is leading the province in the next several months, and that is to put the words of this legislation and the words that we pronounce in this Chamber into actual practice. That is I think where the test will be. Whether the present regime will continue its practice of saying one thing during an election campaign and doing another after the campaign or whether a government will come in place that actually believes what it says and carries out what it says, that will be the test. That will be the real challenge in the future.

Let me just, again, reiterate that the single biggest difficulty in our system now is confidence, a lack of confidence by not only those receiving the care, but certainly by the caregivers. No amount of rationalizing and no amount of speech making and no amount of individual dedication by any member will change the reality of the situation in Manitoba if people do not have confidence in the leadership, direction, and policies of this government. If we can be a small part in trying to improve that situation and turn it around, we will do it, even if it means voting for a government's budget, even if it means supporting unanimously bills because the bills are the right bills.

Good heavens, how could we not support a bill that we have called for for 11 years, certainly the last six years? How could we not support it? How could we not support an expanded role and function of R.N.s? Of course not. How could we not support a bill dealing with expanded role and function of LPNs? We have called for it for years. How can we not support many of the programs announced by the government, announced, I might add, by the government in the last few months since many of those same programs we called for for the past 11 years?

Having said those few words, we certainly look forward to speedy passage of this bill and perhaps, perhaps the beginning of a new era in health care in Manitoba, though I think there is one other step that has to be taken before that new era begins. That step will be at the discretion of the Premier when he does have the courage to call the next election and allow Manitobans to speak their voices, allow Manitobans to state their views as to the future of health care in the province.

Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Nurses provide expert care 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Nurses are there Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, often leaving their families at home, often not there Christmas morning to see their children get up and see all the presents under the Christmas tree. Nurses do not always get the summer holidays they want because only two might be able to leave at a time, so their kids could be off. Nurses are not having the same opportunities as many other people to take their holidays with their kids. They are there 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year. They are essential decision makers and problem solvers who work in partnership with other health care professionals.

The members of the health care team vary in their educational backgrounds and skill sets, but each has a part to play in ensuring safe, quality care. There has always been a role for LPNs. The LPN role in this province has never disappeared. It has always been there. I can recall working with some excellent, excellent LPNs. There were never very many in the hospitals. Most of the wards were staffed by registered nurses, and on each shift there might be one LPN, six registered nurses and one orderly. That is how we ran a ward.

Health care is however changing. There is definitely a role for each category. There still is today as much as there was in the '70s, but we have to face the fact, too, that challenges within our health care system are changing. Health care in a hospital is not what it was in the '70s. The technology itself is changing. The complexities of the treatment regimes are changing. The complications of family interactions are changing. With that you have to look at who is going to care for that patient. Patients in hospitals are measured according to Levels 1 to 4. Well, back in the '70s we had a lot of Levels 1, 2, 3, 4. Nowadays we do not. We are sitting with a lot of Levels 3 and 4 within our hospital system. It is very important that when we look at the complexity of the health care needs of the patient that we are matching the skills of the nurses to the needs of the patient. That is critically, critically important. As I said, I have worked with many talented LPNs. I am a great proponent of having LPNs within our health care system. I feel there is a definite role for the LPN within our health care system.

Since taking office, I have met with many LPNs many times in this past year to hear what they have to say, to get their input so that as we are making decisions here, their voices could be carried to the decisions that are being made here as well. The member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) was just talking about nurses being run off their feet. Nurses were run off their feet in the '70s, in the '80s; being run off their feet in the '90s is no different. When I first graduated, I was run off my feet. My morning baths which should have been done by nine o'clock in the morning were being done at 4:30 in the afternoon. We were very, very busy. It is a busy profession, it is a tough profession, and nurses that rise to these challenges are indeed exemplary in what they are doing. I have nothing but credit to offer them, pride in this profession, because I think nurses have been hugely challenged working within a health care system. It is not easy being a health care professional. It was not in the '70s, it was not in the '80s, and it is not in the '90s. It is a tough job–[interjection]

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One of the members opposite is saying it is worse now. I would like to tell you what it was like in the '80s when I was a nurse on one of the wards in one of the tertiary care centres. I remember many nights working in absolute tears because of the health care situation of the '80s. So I do not want anybody thinking that superiority you throw across at us here, that our system is so bad today. Maybe some of the members opposite should have been working in the hospitals in the '80s under the NDP government. I spent many times crying. Patients were crying. There were headlines of waiting lists of a thousand patients on a waiting list. There was a headline of four patients dying because they could not get into a hospital. I can remember we did not have supplies to care for patients–[interjection]

Is today worse? The NDP regime, the health care regime under the NDP in the '80s, was no cakewalk, believe me. Having been there, I can speak to it from a first-hand basis. If the NDP think that they are going to come in and create a wonderful health care system, I would be very, very skeptical having lived through one of them in the '80s. The question was put forward about our throwing all this money into health care in a very cynical attitude. Maybe it is because we listened in the public budget consultations when our Finance minister went out.

Manitobans asked for money to be put into health care, and we listened. We are putting money into health care as Manitobans want us to do. Health care definitely is changing. We have some huge challenges in front of us. When we talk about cannot get nurses up North, cannot get nurses here, I do want to add my comments on this particular issue because there is a nursing shortage in all of Canada. This is not just Manitoba. So for the members opposite to keep implying that the nursing shortage is government related, this is happening across the country. We also happen to have an aging nursing population.

There are thousands of nurses over the age of 40 in this province. We are seeing nurses retiring all the time. When we see nurses retiring, that is part of a problem that is occurring that has nothing to do with government policy. Nurses have a right to retire. Nurses are aging–[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind all honourable members that they all will have an opportunity to put their debate on this bill. The honourable member for Charleswood was recognized to speak to Bill 37.

Mrs. Driedger: In order to address the nursing shortage in the province, we have put a fund together. I am very involved in that fund. We also have a committee that has been meeting provincially, which is the Provincial Nursing Resource Committee. I am very glad to say that on the Provincial Nursing Resource Committee there is an LPN. The LPNs represent their profession very, very well. Their comments are taken very, very well.

The registered psychiatric nurses, the licensed practical nurses and the registered nurses, all three regulatory bodies worked together collaboratively to come up with legislation that was complementary to each other. That is something I am very proud of as a nurse to see happen in this province. We had three different categories of nurses work in collaboration to come up with their own acts that complemented each other, respected each other other's professions, and showed a huge willingness and maturity as a profession to work together.

There is a role for LPNs in this province. I am a strong supporter of that. I am glad to see that the legislation has come forward with its changes. I think we are on the verge of seeing some exciting things happen in this province in the nursing profession and the opportunities that are going to be here for nurses in Manitoba.

In one of the brochures on nursing that has come out, there are a couple of interesting quotes in it. It says that one of Canada's leading futurists cites health care as one of the fastest growing sectors of the economy for the 21st Century. Seven out of the 10 best future career opportunities are in health care and related fields. Of these seven, three will be in nursing or fields directly related to nursing. With the increasing complexity of illness, increasingly high technology developed to combat disease, an aging population and the need to promote health in individuals, families and communities, more emphasis is being placed on nursing education than ever.

Some quotes from nurses I think are interesting to put in the record. One nurse has said: I have so many options available to me. I knew that I wanted to be a nurse, but I did not know which area of nursing would be best for me. The Faculty of Nursing program at the University of Manitoba is giving me the chance to try and learn different things. We cover a broad spectrum of nursing from maternity to geriatrics and everything in between. There are so many directions that I will be able to take my degree, and if I want to change I will be able to do that too without having to change fields. I could start in a hospital, move into the community, start working on my masters, whatever I end up I will have a career I can enjoy.

It is a pleasure hearing nurses nowadays talk about nursing so positively as this. Another quote says: nursing is a career that is both demanding and rewarding. I work in maternity as a labour and delivery nurse, a career that is both demanding and rewarding. Every woman who comes in is different, but they are all worried about the health of their babies, and they are all scared of the labour process. I have to keep them as calm as possible and be prepared for anything.

Another nurse says: everything I learned fascinates me. Every day when I wake up I ask myself what am I going to learn today. I am excited about becoming a nurse. Everything I learn fascinates me, and I know I will have a job when I graduate. I enrolled in the program, because I had heard good things about it, that grads were well accepted and respected for their abilities and professionalism.

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What I did not expect to find is how close we are to each other. Everyone seems to support each other. I guess that is the kind of people nurses are. There are some wonderful stories and quotes out there about nurses. I have heard it, I have been there. I have worked side by side with them. I know their pains, I know their happiness, I know their challenges. I am very excited to be able to stand here and support, in this particular instance, the legislation for the LPNs. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Madam Speaker, I want to rise to put a few remarks on the record on Bill 37. I think we need to recognize what Bill 37 really does. It is really a repeal of an act which was and replaces The Licensed Practical Nurses Act. It will provide for the name of the regulatory body to be changed from the Manitoba Association of Licensed Practical Nurses, MALPN, to the College of Licensed Practical Nurses of Manitoba. The change in name will make it easier for the public to identify the regulatory body for practical nurses from a professional interest association and will emphasize the overriding duty of the college to always act in the public interest and not engage in professional promotion activity that conflicts with this duty.

It is a very important change that is being brought in here. I think the recognition of the professionality of this group of people that serves in the health care field is important. I will never forget when I was first elected back in 1988. One of the first meetings that really stuck with me was with a group of 41 LPNs from across the province, and they reinforced what I had heard many times during the campaign, the importance of the nurses and the provisions of the nursing profession that were provided within the health care system and the duties they performed, not only in the hospital settings but in personal care homes, out in the field, providing in-home care.

I think we need to recognize the dramatic changes that have been brought about in the last decade, and they have been brought about under our government, not under the NDP government. The nurses had lobbied long and hard prior to us being elected to make many of the changes that we have since made, to recognize the fact that people wanted to be served where they were most comfortable, especially those who were aged. Many of the LPNs and other nurses that served before in the institutions now serve outside of the institutions. Those people we never see.

I find it rather interesting the cynicism and the self-righteous indignation that I have heard expressed here by the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) and others on the opposite benches proclaiming to be the saviour of the health care system, proclaiming to be the proponent of the professionals in the health care system, which they are not.

Madam Speaker, I will never forget prior to 1988 the conditions that my people in my riding had to be institutionalized under; rainwater was coming through the roofs of the hospitals. The hospital at Vita, the tiles were falling off the ceiling. The hospital at St. Pierre, I will never forget walking into that facility, nurses carrying around pails, putting them under the various drips that were developing because the roof was so bad it would not keep the rain out. The windows were falling out of the facility in Altona, and nurses putting towels, LPNs utilizing their time to stick towels in holes in the windows and propping the windows up from the outside with boards so that they would not fall out during the winter months. That is where the time was spent of the LPNs during the NDP administration prior to 1988.

These people have the audacity to sit here and proclaim that they are the saviours of the health care system. It is really appalling, quite frankly, some days to sit here and have to listen to that self-righteous indignation that I hear day after day after day. Yet, when they were in power, they had the power to make the changes and power to bring the health care system up to standards, and they refused to. You know why I think, Madam Speaker, they refused to? Because they did not know how. It was because they did not know how.

That is really the message the first group of nurses that I met with in my riding, and as I said before, they were from all over the province. That is what they told me that this group of people who were in power refused to listen.

The act that is being brought here today is something that the LPNs have wanted for a long time. Yet could we have gained support of this till 1990? I think not. Could we have got the opposition's support on this kind of a bill from 1990 to '94-95? I think not. But now today they choose to support our budget. They choose to support, because they want to be seen in public as having had a change of heart. Well, there are certain kinds of reptiles that change their outside shell from time to time, but the inside never changes. The inside never changes, Madam Speaker.

So I say that the NDP party will never change. Their philosophy will not change. They will keep on using crass political methods to keep nurses where they think nurses ought to be. But our party has not demonstrated by words. We have not stood on the street corner and hollered and screamed. Our party is known by its actions in the health care system. We have increased funding to health care by almost a billion dollars in the last 10 years. What do the NDP do and say? They voted against almost every one of those increases except now this last one. Check the record, anybody in this House, check the record of the NDP and where they have been. Have they supported the previous budgets that we have put forward where there was increased funding to nurses, increased funding to doctors, increased funding to the capital projects in health care? No. Increased funding to home care? They voted against every one of them except this last one.

I say to you, Madam Speaker, this self-righteous attitude that prevails in the opposite benches is a clear demonstration of why people in Manitoba will take a long time before they will ever trust them to govern. That is the message I hear. Seldom ever have we seen in Manitoba a party in power that has paid as much attention to the nurses. Seldom ever have we seen a group of politicians spend as much time with the professionals in the health care system as we do today. This act clearly demonstrates again the true desire of a governing party to deal with the real concerns.

The public participation in the regulatory process that will be added to this bill will be increased by requiring a minimum of one-third public representation on the board of college and on all committees. That is a dramatic change, something that the nurses have wanted for a long, long time. It will also require that meetings of the board and committees be open to the public except in specific circumstances. I think all boards and committees are given the ability to go in camera when specific instances and measures are dealt with. These measures to ensure public accountability are consistent with the recommendations made by the Manitoba Law Reform Commission in 1994.

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I believe that the ability of the college to monitor the continuing competence of its members will be increased substantially by this bill. The College of Licensed Practical Nurses of Manitoba will be required to provide the Minister of Health with an annual report of its activities, including information on the number of licensed practical nurses registered and the number of complaints received and the nature of the disposition of the complaints and the composition of the governing board and committees and the financial institution.

The definition of practice of the licensed practical nurses will provide a broad scope of practice, a statement and a clear understanding of the LPN's parameter of the practice. It will also remove the provision which requires practical nurses to work under the direction of a registered nurse or a medical practitioner. A mechanism will be provided to recognize advanced practical nurses.

You know, I found it interesting when the honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) spoke about the long, hard lobby and the stack of information that they had, correspondence they had from the LPNs. I would venture to guess, Madam Speaker, that a lot of that correspondence would be better than 10 years old. I would suspect that that lobby effort that the LPNs put on dates back to at least 20 years, because I remember well what the nurses were telling us during the campaign when I first ran and the requests they had made of the then government.

I think this legislation, in small part, addresses part of those concerns. I believe that the new disciplinary procedures, the complaints and discipline processes will be updated to ensure fairness for the complaints and the licensed practical nurse who may be the subject of the complaint. They have wanted that for a long time. These processes will comply with the current legal requirements for administrative bodies and will provide consistency with the health professional legislation such as The Midwifery Act and Bill 26, the physiotherapy act.

I think this government, Madam Speaker, will be recognized within the health care field as having dealt with matters that previous governments simply refused to deal with because they thought it was too controversial. The changes that have been made in the health care system are starting to bear fruit in many, many areas. The services being provided are provided in a more consistent way of what the public has wanted.

Many of our seniors have lobbied long and hard to be provided with some measure of service within their homes to allow them to stay in their homes and not be institutionalized. That is why we are spending such a very significant amount of energy and time and dollars in providing those services now to those seniors in their homes. Let it never be said that we have not listened, that we have not listened to the seniors, that we have not listened to the people who could not help themselves, and that we have not listened to those who wanted to be allowed to stay at home and not be institutionalized.

Time and time again when I visit seniors in seniors homes, in those homes that have been provided, the personal care homes today, people, elderly people thank me for the changes that we have made to allow them to stay in their homes until they are ninety and sometimes even a hundred years old and for the additional services that are being provided in those homes. They are being provided by LPNs, by assistants of the LPNs, and by registered nurses, not in the institution. I noted when the honourable member for Thompson said we had deleted 25 beds in Thompson. Well, Madam Speaker, I would suggest to you that, instead of having seniors lie in those beds being institutionalized, being cared for in their homes is something that I think is being seen as quite an advantageous type of a situation in Thompson even. Maybe I am wrong; maybe the people of Thompson are telling their member of the Legislature something else than they are telling me. But I would doubt that.

I think they want to be provided with the services that they are being able to access today. I believe that the practical nurses are providing a very, very substantive service to the general public out there that they were not able to provide before. But has their workplace changed? Dramatically, it has changed. Will it change in the future? I would venture to guess that it will because all those people, all the experts, tell us that within the next decade we will see even far more dramatic changes than we have seen in the last 20 or 30 years. I happen to believe that.

Whether it is in the field of agriculture, whether it is in the field of industry or whether it is in the health care field, there are dramatic, dramatic changes happening, and there is very little we can do about that except recognize the need for change. So we changed our health care system. How did we change it? We are allowing now people, community people, to sit on boards that have decision-making authority to direct the health care system. That is something quite foreign to our members opposite. The member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) could not recognize the possibility of actual people being allowed to make decisions for themselves instead of a government directing and having total authority. The authoritarian type of governments that the NDP philosophy still holds to–oh, no, that is not quite so. The last couple of months we have seen the change or the perceived change, and I would beg to say to you, Madam Speaker, that it is perceived more than anything else.

Let me say this to you, Madam Speaker, if they think they are fooling the public out there, let them think again because they are not, not by what people are telling me. I happen to think that I have a fairly good dialogue with my constituency on an ongoing basis.

Health care is, and I think will be, one of the primary concerns of all people of Manitoba and how it is delivered is going to be important to them. Will change cause questioning in their minds? Absolutely it will, and it should. Will the allowance for them to take hold of the system and direct it, be involved in the system, be involved in the changes make a difference? I think so. I think it will finally cause confidence in the total governing structure of a decentralized decision-making process that I think is functioning well. I beg to think that the practical nurses under this act will be inclusive and allowed inclusively in the process of change that they have never been allowed before.

I find it very interesting when the opposition sits there in their self-righteous, indignant manner and tries to tell people in this Legislative Assembly that they are the ones driving this legislation. That is one of the best jokes I have heard in a long time. I think the practical nurses will also think that is somewhat hilarious, because that NDP party could have changed this legislation 20 years ago if they had chosen to do it, but they refused. They refused 10 years ago to change it. In 1986, I remember a very significant lobby being put forward by the practical nurses, and yet the NDP refused to listen.

Well, my government has listened. My government has not only listened, my government has acted. I would suggest to you that during the next election campaign, this issue will be flagged time and time again that we will be seen as a government of action, and we will be seen as a government that listens and a government with heart.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, I too want to put a few words on the record on Bill 37, The Licensed Practical Nurses Act. It was interesting in hearing some of the debate that was going on earlier from the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak). In most part I agreed with his comments with the exception of the budget vote, but we have agreed to disagree on that one. I found it interesting in terms of the tactic, and that is not necessarily to impute negative motives, that was being brought forward by the member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger).

The bill that we have before us, much like our other professional bills, the real individuals or people who benefit by this are, in fact, the clients, Manitobans. This is a great leap forward in terms of establishing confidence in our health care workers as a whole. By doing that, I believe that the biggest winner is the public as a whole. We could debate endlessly this afternoon and well into the evening in terms of the critical and vital role that we all see in our health care workers and, in particular, our nurses. I have long argued and articulated from my perspective the backbone of our health care system is very much so with our nurses.

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Having had the opportunity to be the health care critic for the Liberal Party, I was able to have many different forms of discussions, negotiations in some areas, in terms of the types of changes that are necessary because the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) is quite right when he indicates that changes are on the horizon and those changes have to be dealt with.

A big part of the problem that we have had is how you deal with those changes. We have long advocated that you need to be working with the stakeholders in order to ensure that the changes that are necessary are, in fact, being enacted and enacted in such a fashion at the end of the day the quality of health care is going to be that much better. For some members of the Chamber they might say that they have a positive working relationship with the health care professionals. The discussions and the feedback that I have been given does not affirm that particular position, and I have not had the opportunity to look prior to '88, but we can see other jurisdictions where they have not had successful relationships with health care workers of different political stripes, whether it was the Liberals in Newfoundland or the New Democrats in Saskatchewan.

There is no doubt a lot that needs to happen, and I would ultimately argue that the greatest threat to the health care, which I hope and trust that we all love and care for so passionately, is, in fact, how we administer it as opposed to just strictly the dollar. The dollar is important and no one would question that, but it is how you manage the changes that are necessary which will ultimately determine whether or not we are going to be able to provide the quality health care that we all know Manitobans want. When we talk about that quality of health care that Manitobans want, we have to look at implementing those changes that are necessary and how we best do that. I would argue that we best do that by working with those health care professionals in establishing a relationship based on respect and move forward in terms of getting ideas from down, bringing them up, and the member for Kildonan made reference as one of his examples to Connie Curran, something that we, too, as a political party took great objection to.

We believe very much so, that those changes that are necessary you have to work with, in particular those health care workers in the many different branches. I can recall a number of years ago sitting in the Health Estimates when Don Orchard was the Minister of Health. He and I had some dialogue about the LPNs and the future role that LPNs, in particular, would have. The government of the day's primary concern, and if you look up in Hansard you will find that, in fact, it is quite correct, was that of finances. They believed that the LPNs were financing their way out of the system and that seemed to be the primary concern for the Minister of Health of the day. Well, phasing out the LPNs for whatever reason that you believe, based strictly on a dollar value, I would have argued then and I would argue today is not what is in the best interest of our health care delivery.

The LPN, often referred to as the bedside nurse, plays an absolutely critical role in the delivery of our health care. We have seen expansion. The member for Emerson (Mr. Penner), I believe, made reference to home care, where we have more and more individuals being provided good quality care in a more independent setting such as their homes and elsewhere and that has been very beneficial and the LPN has played a role there. They have also played an enhanced role in some personal care home facilities.

There has been a great deal of disappointment, I believe, of the role of the LPN within our hospitals and our acute care centres. I do believe that there is a role for LPNs in virtually every aspect of our health care system, and that is why the legislation which has been long in waiting for, we see by giving a better definition of the scope of practice that it will give a stronger sense of security for those individuals who want to enter into the profession. The bill itself also gives that much more assurance of that of, let us say public accountability–if I can use that terminology here–where there is going to be more of an independent reporting and monitoring of the profession, whether it is the number of LPNs that are in the system, where it is that they might be focusing, and all of this can be of great assistance to the Department of Health in terms of where it is that they could be placed.

A number of years ago, I had the opportunity to meet an individual by the name of Lynn Clark who was with the LPNs and made sure that I was being kept abreast of the issues facing LPNs and was a very strong advocate for the LPNs. That is when I was really first made aware of just how serious a situation the LPNs have faced. It is one of the nice things in terms of being able to keep up that relationship with Ms. Clark that we are able to at least as much as possible stay on top of the issue.

That it why it pleases me greatly today to be able to say a few words on this bill, because, of course, it has the Liberal Party's support. We have long believed that it was necessary. We believe that it is going to be beneficial for our patients or our clients or Manitobans as a whole, along with our LPNs. I think it will go a long way in terms of ensuring that there is going to be a little bit more stability within our health care services and the way in which we service Manitobans in health care.

So it is with those few words that we are quite pleased to see the bill before us today. We hope and trust that, upon receiving Royal Assent, it will not be long in terms of its ultimate proclamation. With those few words, Madam Speaker, we are prepared to pass the bill.

Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Madam Speaker, it is a great pleasure and privilege that I have to speak on this bill regarding the licensed practical nurses. I have five of seven sisters-in-law engaged in the health care field, of which the LPN profession is one that I am very proud to say one of my sisters-in-law takes great pride in presenting herself in her daily duties and off-duty hours representing the licensed practical nurses.

Just recently, it was announced by the government that the actual educational training of licensed practical nurses will be expanded in the province of Manitoba, more than doubling the number of spots available to young people, and maybe perhaps others who are looking at joining the health care professional field in the licensed practical nurses program which is offered at the Assiniboine Community College. In fact, $576,000 of increased funding from the Manitoba government will be made available for this program. That will increase the number of students available, retrained in the province on an annual basis from 90, as it currently exists at two sites, 30 being trained each year in Winnipeg and 60 in Brandon, that an additional 100 available spots will be made available to Manitobans this coming year.

With this additional sponsorship of training in the LPN program, this government has seen fit to expand the program through Assiniboine Community College to two additional sites within Manitoba, where the people interested in pursuing the profession of licensed practical nursing can, in fact, take their training.

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Assiniboine Community College, when this announcement was made, expected that perhaps there would just be a few interested communities or areas within the province that would like to take on the training of licensed practical nurses. However, Madam Speaker, Assiniboine Community College was overwhelmed with the number of inquiries from all over the province interested in providing this type of training within their community for their young people.

Because of this overwhelming response, the Assiniboine Community College put together a preliminary survey which respondents were asked to fill out to show, in fact, their interest in whether or not they can potentially fill the classrooms in their community. In consultation with the Central Regional Health Authority based in Portage la Prairie, the initiative was taken. The director of personnel, Mr. Ray Koop, undertook this project and canvassed all facilities within the central region of Manitoba. Currently the central region has 257 licensed practical nurses within the facilities operated by the central region.

It was asked within this survey as to whether or not there was interest in expanding this particular number of employed licensed practical nurses over the next year. The reply from the facilities within the Central Regional Health Authority was that an estimated 20 to 30 additional employment opportunities, full-time employment opportunities, are forthcoming in the next year to two years.

Madam Speaker, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to see the licensed practical nurses profession being expanded. At one time it was thought that the actual program and job opportunities for the licensed practical nurse would be limited. However, with the enhancement of the training program from 10 to 14 months, this has afforded the licensed practical nurse to keep up with the modern technologies and expand their abilities within their job description to provide health care within the facilities of Manitoba.

I might say that this program has been so intensified that, in fact, outside of a Christmas and Easter break, this program runs at a very intensive pace. Therefore anyone that is involved in and considering this occupation is, at conclusion of the course, an extremely dedicated individual.

I would like to commend Ms. Diane Shamray, who is the chairperson of Health and Human Services at the Assiniboine Community College, for her undertaking within her department the expansion of the training of the licensed practical nurses. I hope that her due diligence would find venues which will be very much an enhancement to the training of the nurses of the future.

It is vitally important that we as a province show leadership in the health care field, as has the budget which the members opposite supported. It is the intent to add 850 new personal care home beds province-wide. It is going to require many, many more nurses in which to staff and provide care for individuals occupying these care home beds.

In the recent announcement of the nursing negotiations, it was negotiated and made known to the public that more than 650 nurses will be hired in order to achieve the goal of staffing these personal care home beds which will come in on stream in the very, very near future.

Madam Speaker, not only are the current facilities interested in licensed practical nurses coming on staff, but in the Central Region there are other health care providers that are very much interested in licensed practical nurses in their facilities. The Manitoba Developmental Centre in Portage la Prairie is anxiously awaiting the potential of the program coming to Portage la Prairie because they are in significant need of trained staff in order to provide for those that are less fortunate. Also, Rock Lake health district, Pilot Mound and Crystal City, Salem Personal Care Home in Winkler and the Tabor Home in Morden have all expressed an interest in obtaining licensed practical nurses in their facilities to provide for care for their residents.

I certainly encourage those decision makers within the Assiniboine Community College to provide for the expansion of the licensed practical nurses training program to the Central Region. It is very cost-effective to train students closer to their residence without incurring the additional residency expenditures that many students are expected to take on if they travel from rural Manitoba into the current cities of Brandon and Winnipeg where the programs are now offered. I believe that this expansion of the program will significantly enhance the intake of persons interested in achieving a professional status in the health care field.

It is with those few words that I most certainly appreciate the House affording me the opportunity to raise and provide those thoughts here today because it is an exciting future which I believe we have in this province within the health care field, an exciting future for those that take into consideration and go towards achieving the licensed practical nurse's status within this province. I commend all those that go forward into this profession.

Madam Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? The question before the House is second reading, Bill 37, The Licensed Practical Nurses Act.

Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Madam Speaker: Agreed? Agreed and so ordered.

Hon. James McCrae (Acting Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Government Services (Mr. Pitura), that Madam Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty the Queen.

Madam Speaker: To resume adjourned debate on second reading of Bill 38, The Registered Psychiatric Nurses Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur les infirmières psychiatriques), standing in the name of the honourable member for Transcona.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): My colleague the member for Kildonan has a number of comments with respect to this bill, and I would yield the floor to him at this time so that he might represent our viewpoints.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): As we suggested on the previous bills, of course, we are in support of this bill. We will look for expeditious passage of this bill because we basically see it as part of a three-part package.

I am very pleased that our discussion this afternoon has prompted debate in this Legislature. I cannot recall when Conservative members have got up to actually talk positively about health bills in my tenure in this Chamber because normally they have been on the defensive and normally they have been unwilling to defend the government's action as it relates to health care. So it is nice to see that we could all join and talk about something positive for a change with respect to health care, and subject, of course, to the caveats that, if re-elected, whether or not the government will fulfill its commitment or it will revert to its pattern of making promises during an election campaign to be followed by, if re-elected, conveniently forgetting those promises and then proceeding to act like the Conservative Party that has ruled this province, unfortunately, with difficulty in health care for the past 11 years.

As I indicated before, it is indeed a positive step when the Conservative government recognizes the role and function of nurses in this province. I am glad. It is the first time in four and a half years since the last election that the government has actually acknowledged the role and function of nurses, be it through the act relating to registered nurses, the act relating to LPNs, and now the act before us of The Registered Psychiatric Nurses Act. As I said in the previous bills, there is no problem from this side of the House. We welcome this initiative. We have been pushing for these initiatives. We have been pushing for a number of years to try to somehow get the government to recognize the important role and function the nurses play in the health care field.

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You know, Madam Speaker, I have to respond to some of the comments of the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner), who, like government members opposite, illogically talks about and says, on the one hand, oh, all you New Democrats want to do is throw money at the problem, and then says in a week, look, we have thrown money at the problem. You know it is contradictory. The member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) talked about all of the money going into home care, for example. You know the member for Emerson ought to know that only in the last two years, and after much prodding by members on this side of the House, has the actual caseloads in home care expanded. This, despite the fact that $150 million a year was taken out of the health care, out of the hospital sector, and people were left with nowhere to go. And that has been part of the problem.

Part of the problem is, and it has been told from the very beginning, if you are going to cut acute care facilities, then you ought to expand the community-based facilities, and that has not happened. Not only did they cut acute care, they cut the community-based services. So we were faced in this province with the worst of all worlds, and on top of it and more to the point, dealing with this bill, nurses have been made unwelcome, unwanted in Manitoba. So I welcome the initiative on the part of the government to actually recognize the role and function of nurses. I hope that it is not just a conversion for purposes of re-election; I hope it is meaningful. I hope that, as I said in my previous comments, this goes a little way towards restoring confidence in the health care system and confidence amongst nurses and the nursing profession, that there is a place for them in Manitoba, that we welcome their input. I hope that it is not just that this will be forgotten by the government after the bill is passed.

Hope springs eternal from this side of the House. We have been supportive of these measures for some time. We welcome this act, and again I suspect and suggest that this will be unanimously passed by this Chamber. It will be a recognition to all nurses, be it LPNs, be it RNs, or be it RPNs, that finally after 11 years in Manitoba, after 11 years, there is the beginning on the part of the government to recognize the importance of nurses, and that perhaps we can start to restore confidence amongst the nursing profession and ultimately amongst the public that the health care system, which has been in absolute chaos in this province, particularly the past five or six years, can begin to heal itself. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? The question before the House is second reading, Bill 38, The Registered Psychiatric Nurses Act. Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Madam Speaker: Agreed and so ordered.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, I would like to announce that Bills 36, 37 and 38 are being referred to the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations which is sitting tomorrow evening, Wednesday, at 7 p.m., and also hearing another bill as well, so that will put four bills into that committee.

I look to the Clerk's table. Has a recorded vote been requested?

Madam Speaker: Yes.

I will just make the announcement regarding the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations as scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday, July 7, 7 p.m., will also deal with Bills 36, 37 and 38.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I see the Chair of the committee arriving, and I have been informed by one of the pages that a recorded vote has been requested in committee.

Madam Speaker, I would then move, seconded by the Minister of Government Services (Mr. Pitura), that the Chamber, by leave, resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Most Gracious Majesty.

Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Chairperson of the section of the Committee of Supply meeting in Room 254): Mr. Chairman, in the section of the Committee of Supply sitting in Room 254 the question was put on Resolution 8.1. Administration, Government Services. A voice vote was held whereupon a counted vote was requested and members were asked to proceed to the Chamber.

Mr. Chairperson (Marcel Laurendeau): A recorded vote being requested, call in the members.

In the section of the Committee of Supply sitting in Room 254, the question was put on Resolution 8.1. Administration, Government Services. A voice vote was held whereupon a counted vote was requested and members were asked to proceed to the Chamber for the vote.

Mr. Chairperson: The Yeas have it. The resolution is accordingly passed.

The two committees will resume in their perspective until the hour being six o'clock.

So this committee rise. Call in the Speaker.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs which was called for five o'clock, given the fact that now the hour is around 6 p.m., we will cancel that meeting for today and reschedule it for tomorrow afternoon, after I have had a chance to confer as to time with the opposition House leader (Mr. Ashton). So that is cancelled for this evening.

Madam Speaker, I believe you can now see the clock, it being 6 p.m.

Madam Speaker: The Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs, previously scheduled for 5 p.m. this evening, has been cancelled and will be rescheduled tomorrow.

The hour being 6 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Wednesday).