Mr. Chairperson: We will now proceed to the next set of Estimates that will be considered by this section of the Committee of Supply, the Estimates of the department of the Civil Service. Does the minister have an opening statement.

Hon. Mike Radcliffe (Minister charged with the administration of The Civil Service Act): Mr. Chairman, I do indeed. I have a few brief remarks.

In introducing the budget Estimates for the Civil Service Commission for 1999-2000, I would draw attention to the Supplementary Estimates information which has been provided and contains a good deal of organizational program and financial information to assist members with the Estimates review now before us.

The Budget Estimates for the Civil Service Commission for 1999-2000 show an increase of $107,800 from $4,258,000 to $4,365,800. This increase can almost exclusively be attributed to salary increases related to the implementation of the third year of the collective agreement. The increase has been applied equally to all staff, including those who are excluded from the bargaining unit such as the staff of the Civil Service Commission. As at the end of March 1999, the third year of the collective agreement provided for the full removal of the reduced workweek reduction and the application of a two percent across-the-board salary increase.

The position complement for the Civil Service Commission also shows an increase of five positions over 1998-99, increasing from 87 to 92 positions. Within the 1999-2000 Estimates, one vacant position was eliminated from the Executive Office and six positions were added within the Human Resource Management Services complement resulting in the revised complement of 92 positions. Six new positions will be used to hire six interns or trainees for a new aboriginal public administration program. This new initiative will recruit and introduce aboriginals with a priority on youth to the systems and processes of government through a combination of work placement and formalizing training courses. A pool of aboriginal talent will be developed and made available for permanent assignment to both aboriginal organizations and various levels of government. The participants will be selected with a balance of both gender and representation from among First Nations, Metis, and non-Status people.

The program will focus on training aboriginals over a two-year period to work in government and also provide access to training and work experience for existing employees of aboriginal organizations through secondments or exchanges. This new initiative, which is focused on external recruitment, will be developed and administered by the Civil Service Commission in close co-operation with the Department of Northern and Native Affairs.

This creates a total of 32 positions within the complement of the Civil Service Commission that are directed toward a variety of initiatives supporting the proactive recruitment and training of young, talented employees. These initiatives will assist government in preparing the public service for management renewal and change resulting from an aging Civil Service workforce and an anticipated increase in the levels of retirement that will occur over the coming years.

As has been referenced in previous years Estimates discussions, the remainder of these 32 positions are comprised of a complement of 18 positions now devoted to the management internship program. This a program through which six masters level graduates are recruited each year and are centrally managed through rotational work assignments, orientation, structured training, and mentoring over a three-year period to provide accelerated learning and maximum exposure to government operations.

Another eight positions are allocated within the aboriginal management development project, targeted at existing aboriginal employees within government, providing them with accelerated training and learning assignments that will equip them with the skills and competencies to compete effectively for the management positions within government.

Taking into account the 32 positions allocated to the staff at various initiatives, the actual core complement of positions within the Civil Service Commission is 60 positions, that is, 92 minus 32 equals 60.

Turning to other areas of activity within the Civil Service Commission, Mr. Chair, as mentioned earlier, '99-2000 is the final year of the three-year collective agreement negotiated with the Manitoba Government Employees Union, which expires at the end of March 2000. Based on past experience it is anticipated that negotiations for the revision to the collective agreement will commence either at some point in the late fall of this year or the early winter of the year 2000.

Throughout the past year the Civil Service Commission has had several staff seconded to and participating in the Better Methods project, which involves a complete updating and redevelopment of the government's corporate financial and human resource management information systems. These systems will have a significant impact on the way the Civil Service Commission manages information and conducts its business in the future. More importantly, successful conversion to the new software applications contained within the Better Methods project holds the solution for the Civil Service Commission with respect to the year 2000 issue.

Current management information systems are not year 2000 compliant, so it has been extremely important that the commission direct its resources towards resolving these issues. The first stage of conversion to the new information system was successfully achieved in April of this year. The second stage of conversion will take place over the coming months, targeted for completion at the end of October 1999.

As the Civil Service Commission will become the owner of the human resource management portion of this new enterprise-wide system, the dedication of time, effort and resources to the system will continue to be a priority.

With these very brief opening remarks, Mr. Chair, I would now welcome questions from the members opposite on Estimates now before us.

Mr. Chairperson: We thank the honourable minister for those comments. Does the official opposition critic, the honourable member for Wellington, have an opening statement?

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): No.

Mr. Chairperson: We will now proceed with item 17.l. Civil Service Commission (a) Executive Office (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $175,700.

The minister in his comments as Minister of Labour said things like, there is no specific targeted plan at this time to implement this policy, it will be guided by personal situations and there is a need to be flexible and reactive, and that the government is starting down the road to thinking about it.

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So I thought I would ask the Minister responsible for the Civil Service Commission some questions about perhaps is there an overall government plan or process in place to begin planning for this goal of achieving a 10 percent reduction through attrition? I think in the current situation, I cannot recall exactly the reduction in the number of the civil service over the past 10 years, but it is a quite substantial number so it is not like we are looking at a terribly bloated civil service. I just think that it is incumbent upon the government, each department, and I would suggest probably the Civil Service Commission in its role as overseer of the entire civil service, to have some specifics in mind. I would have thought there would have been some specifics underlying this paragraph in the throne speech. So I would like the minister's comment on it in general, and that will undoubtedly lead me to further questions.

Mr. Chairperson: Before I ask the minister to respond, I would like to welcome the minister's staff to the committee, and I would ask that the minister please introduce the staff present today before he responds to the question raised by the critic of the official opposition.

Mr. Radcliffe: Thank you very much for that opportunity, Mr. Chair. I was, in fact, going to commence my answer with an introduction of my staff, and I appreciate the opportunity at this juncture.

I am joined at this point by Mr. Paul Hart, the Civil Service Commissioner; Gerry Irving, who is the Assistant Deputy Minister of Labour Relations; and Bob Pollock, Director of Human Resource Programs Branch, and I would thank staff for appearing today and providing us with their skill and expertise.

Mr. Radcliffe: I thank my honourable colleague for the opportunity to amplify my remarks that she has so graciously cited here today in committee. In fact, the management of vacancy, which will be really the thrust of this issue, the complement of staff years is a function of the Estimates process which is overseen by Treasury Board from year to year. So, when the budgets are prepared each year by departments–and they will be probably starting to review this consideration in September, and then through December and January the actual significant scrutiny goes on–the complement, the size, the definition, the outside parameters of every department in government are scrutinized. The levels of those departments, the size of those departments is determined. The major issue here to consider is that this reduction will not impact on any active employees; i.e., that means that this statement is not a basis for commencing layoffs in government.

My honourable colleague has pointed out that my remarks were of a general nature before, and they will have to be confined to be a general nature, because some of this reduction will be predicated on the personal decisions of individuals as they mature in the civil service. Somebody has the opportunity, say, at 55 years of age to retire, but they may choose not to retire until the age of 65, and that is something over which, of course, government has no control. The experience of government to date has been that over the last 10 years we have reduced the size of the civil service from 18,500 down to 14,000 people, and over the course of that period of time the layoffs have been less than 200 people from government. So we would look forward again to a similar sort of experience as the demographics of our population change. My honourable colleague is, of course, very aware of the demographic bulge of the baby boomers, as am I. These people are now moving into their mature years, and this will have an impact, because the baby boomers form a significant part of the working population right across our country. So every industry, every service, every aspect of employment is going to be impacted by this group of people, as has the economy, as these people were teenagers, as they were young marrieds, as they were caregivers, and now as they age.

I cannot be anything more specific than that at this point in time. The plans on a department-by-department level will, of course, be shared by deputy ministers and directors, and I would only hope that employees as they reach this level of seniority in chronology would share with their supervisors and directors and deputy ministers their plans for employment in the future. That would give us then the opportunity to create and plan the vacancy management which will, we know, occur.

What this statement is is a statement of a prospect of reality which we know we are going to encounter, and, as government goes through this stage, our government will be looking to manage the vacancy through the Treasury Board process, through the Estimates process. The other component, of course, will be with the advancing training and increasing skill level of the remaining employees and the new employees who are brought onside with the advance in information technology.

With the superior skills of the new staff that are being employed by government, the face of government will change.

The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Penner): The hour being six o'clock, committee rise.