Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, in 1993 there were 300 members known to the Winnipeg police of gangs in Winnipeg, and in '94, regrettably, that number had climbed to 400, according to the Winnipeg city police in their statistics. In 1995 we made promises, the government made promises and the Premier quoted in his promise: Manitoba's neighbourhoods must be protected from those who threaten our neighbourhoods. Of course it was a sentiment that all of us would agree with.

I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon), from his promise in 1995, has the number of people known to be in gangs gone down, or has it increased under his watch?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, indeed, the issue of gangs and gangs in our streets is a very important one and one that this government takes very seriously. The recent indications from the Winnipeg Police Service indicate that there are as a result of their very extensive ability now to determine exact amounts of gang members in 1999, 1,531 members. However, what they indicate is that 601 of these are confirmed members and that others are associated with a gang in much lesser numbers.

The other point that needs to be made is that presently today in our provincial jails–this is exclusive of federal jails–385 of the most hard core of these gang members are there. So we are making a real difference in terms of ensuring that gang members are responsible for their actions.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the minister has just confirmed that there are 1,531 known gang members to the City of Winnipeg Police after the election promise of the Premier in 1995 where he talked and promised to do something about it when the number was only 400.

I would like to ask the Premier: why have his policies failed to curtail the growth in gangs, and why do we have more gang members today known to the City of Winnipeg Police under his watch?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, of course, the member opposite is being, I think, less than fair to the police forces of the city and the RCMP. These forces have put together the intelligence that allows them to track the activities and identify all of these people. It may well be that there were many more who were not identified back in 1993 or '94. Not only are they identified, but as the Attorney General has just indicated, some 385 of them are in our provincial institutions as a result of the efforts of the police forces. In many cases, the police will tell you that these are the leaders who they have been able to convict and incarcerate.

We have put together many, many resources that have resulted in this kind of impact, including dedicated gang prosecutors, including the fact that Crown attorneys oppose bail for violent and gang-related accused, the transference of youth involved in violent gang activity to adult court wherever possible, and this province with 4 percent of the population has over 40 percent of the cases that are raised to adult court in the whole country. There is, of course, the Winnipeg street gang prevention co-ordinator, a very, very effective individual.

So, when the member opposite criticizes what is happening, he is criticizing the work of a lot of dedicated, hardworking and effective people in the police service of this province, because we have put in place many of the tools that they have needed. That is why there are 385 of the worst offenders who are in jail as a result of our efforts.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, what we are afraid of is tough talk and empty rhetoric at election time and no follow-through after. The Premier talks about gang activity like cancer. Well, the best thing to do with cancer is prevention, early intervention, early assessment and workable programs, not just a couple of little press releases and announcements before the election.

I would like to ask the Premier: why is he misrepresenting the growth in gang activity? The police say a slight increase can be partially attributable to the improved data. The Premier is now saying the increase in the number of gang members is attributable to the change in data. Why does he not admit that his policies have not worked? It has only been a slight increase based on data. Regrettably, the majority of the increase is a lack of hope, a lack of consequences, a lack of Crown attorneys and a lack of bridges for opportunity rather than dredges of despair.

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Mr. Filmon: The member opposite ought not to misrepresent what I said. I said some of the increase–and he has just confirmed that by his statement–can be attributable to better information, better tracking, better identification by our police forces. But, Madam Speaker, the reality is that 385 of the most violent and hardened of the group are in our penal institutions right today as a result of the efforts of this government and our police forces throughout the city and the province of Manitoba. Dedicated gang prosecutors; Crown attorneys opposing bail for violent and gang-related accused; transfer of youth involved in violent crime activity to adult court; the street gang prevention co-ordinator in the city of Winnipeg; we have the toughest penalties in the country for home invasions. We funded 40 more police officers in Winnipeg annually since 1995. We expanded the network of our youth justice committees. We have vehicle seizure for johns, the crackdown on prostitution, which is the main source of income of many of these gangs. We have toughened Criminal Code provisions for antistalking.

That has been done as a result of the efforts of this government and the former Attorney General. We have supported community-based public safety initiatives such as Urban Sports Camps, the Choices program, a Citizens on Patrol service. All of these things have been early intervention and prevention of exactly the things that the member opposite talked about. So he ought not to fool himself by his misuse of statistics.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the Premier. The other night I saw the Premier on TV in a Conservative election ad about gangs, Madam Speaker, and I had not seen that for about four years. But, interestingly, he was not slamming the prison doors shut anymore at Headingley jail, because when they sent the gang members out there last time, they did not know what to do. They were so lax and negligent, they caused the worst prison riot in Manitoba history. Manitoba deserves better.

I ask this question of the Premier: since we have not heard from the Premier on the issue of street gangs for four years, I am just wondering where the Premier got this newfound interest in gangs just before an election.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, interest of any kind is better than just the rhetoric that we get from the member opposite on the issue as he postures every day in this House with his weak-kneed approach to dealing with these issues. As I indicated to his Leader, I will repeat for him, we have instituted dedicated gang prosecutors; we have Crown attorneys who oppose bail for violent and gang-related accused; we transfer youth involved in violent gang activity to adult court wherever possible. We are responsible for over 40 percent of the transfers in Canada with just 4 percent of the population. We have the toughest penalties in the country for home invasions. We have a Winnipeg street gang prevention co-ordinator. We have 40 more police officers in Winnipeg since 1995. We are doing things, not just the empty rhetoric of the member opposite.

Mr. Mackintosh: My question to the king of rhetoric. I want to ask the Premier why, in this pre-election ad that I saw on TV this week, with the Premier for the first time in four years talking about gangs, why did he report that his government was passing new, tough antigang laws. Would he list those bills for Manitobans right now?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): This is something, of course, that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has taken a very active interest in.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) pokes fun at the Premier for the riding that he represents. He poked fun at me from the country that I was born in, and I wish he would stop doing that kind of thing because there are many of my constituents who do not appreciate the kinds of things he says about the country that I was born in.

In any event, the kinds of laws that we have in fact passed are within our area of jurisdiction, and they have been very effective. Number one, the laws under our Corrections Act, the regulations that regulate gang activity in our prisons, have been very, very effective. Those laws in fact have been very effective in controlling gangs in our prison. Secondly, the johns laws with respect to the seizure of motor vehicles deals directly with the lifeblood of street gangs who prey on street prostitution. Those laws, according to the police–and perhaps the member knows better, but I trust the word of the police–are making a very important difference on our streets today in Winnipeg. We want to give the police not just laws but policies and tangible support, which we are doing.

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Mr. Mackintosh: Would the Premier (Mr. Filmon), despite the Philadelphia lawyer attempts by the minister to try and wiggle out of the fact that there are no antigang laws introduced by this government, explain to Manitobans, since he said right in their face on the television, that this province had passed tough new antigang laws, what laws, what bills were brought in to specifically deal with the threat of street gangs that this minister, this Premier, has overseen in Manitoba? Where are they?

Mr. Toews: As I have indicated, we have brought in a brand new Corrections Act that those people when they were in power would not. We brought in a brand new Corrections Act that in fact empowers us to deal with gangs in our institutions. That is a new law. The johns' law is a very important tool in the hands of the police to ensure that conditions leading to crime are in fact stymied. We as a government and my colleague the member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Vodrey) were instrumental in encouraging the federal government to pass the organized crime legislation, legislation that our government implemented in terms of prosecutions in a very high profile case. We have worked with the federal government in ensuring that there are appropriate laws in place in Manitoba, and we are very proud of the role that we played in that respect.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the same minister, the minister I pleaded with to write gang protocol into that same Corrections Act and which he refused, Madam Speaker, he said: don't worry, be happy. I am looking at a press release from the government dated today that says that the province intends to fund policing in excess of $15 million for 62 officers. Now would the minister please just really give us the straight goods here? Would he please tell Manitobans that there is no $15 million in any new money. There certainly are not any new 62 police officers. Would he tell Manitobans exactly how many police officers will be on the street next month as opposed to last month? Perhaps let us get the real story here.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, as a result of the direct financial contribution of this government in respect of policing in the city of Winnipeg, there are 40 additional police officers that we have funded. Today we announced an extension of that agreement to the year 2004. We are also very, very pleased to announce, in response to the request from police forces in this jurisdiction, the RCMP, Winnipeg city, Brandon city, and other municipal police forces, a joint forces intelligence unit.

The member across the way was criticizing me when I signed that memorandum of understanding with the RCMP indicating our support in principle for such a unit. Madam Speaker, we have indicated to the police that we will support that in terms of the police needed to staff that joint forces intelligence unit which will have a direct bearing on the activities of gang members, not simply street gangs but more sophisticated organized street gangs.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To help the minister just expound on what is the truth here, would the minister then at least start with this: would he tell Manitobans how many officers are actually going to be dedicated to the joint forces intelligence unit, a unit for some reason that we are about the last to get of all the provinces? Imagine, of all the provinces in Canada, one of the last to get one of these units.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, is that not strange that the member of course neglects to point out the fact that in NDP British Columbia, because of the corruption in a particular case involving the joint forces, their joint forces fell apart. We wanted to avoid that particular situation, and we wanted to do it right by consulting with all the police forces to ensure that we have an effective joint forces intelligence unit. So we are, in fact, together with federal authorities, dedicating various officers. We are dedicating officers to the RCMP, we are dedicating officers to the Winnipeg city police, and one to Brandon city police. The federal RCMP, on the federal policing side, will dedicate four RCMP officers, and customs will be dedicating one officer for a total of 16 officers.

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Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Given the information now from the minister, would he confirm that all the announcement is about today is six new officers, and would the minister confirm that these six new officers will not be on the streets for quite some time?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, this announcement not only involves the extension of the 40 officers for an additional two years, to the year 2004, it puts 22 more officers that we are responsible for funding into various crime-fighting activities. For example, the Winnipeg Police Service will receive funding for 10 regular officer positions. That is our commitment. The RCMP will receive funding for nine regular officer positions plus three additional support staff, and the Brandon city police will receive funding for three regular police officers.

Madam Speaker, yes, there is an amount of negotiation that will have to take place as to exactly where these officers will go, but it is our intention as a government to ensure that the last of these officers is in place before the end of this fiscal year.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Since 1989 and on this Premier's (Mr. Filmon) watch, Manitoba has lost nearly 6,000 railway jobs. Today we have learned that CN Rail will be announcing that it will terminate production of rail equipment wheel sets at the Transcona Shops. This shop supplies all of CN's operations across Canada and has been profitable for some time. Now 110 jobs at the Transcona CN wheel shop are on the line.

Since Manitoba has already lost 6,000 rail jobs and now another 110 jobs on this Premier's watch, will the Premier pick up the phone and call CN president, Mr. Tellier, and remind him of the benefits CN received when the fuel taxes were cut for the railways as a tradeoff to keep jobs in Manitoba, or was this not the intent of the tax cuts that the Premier made for the railways in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, it just so happens that yesterday afternoon I had an opportunity to meet with the head of the prairie region for Canadian National Railway, who was in my office to discuss that and a number of particular issues. We also had received a call earlier in the day from one of the shop stewards involved regarding this issue. Canadian National tells us that they are still in the process of making decisions, that there are changes they want to make, moving some work in, some work out. We expressed to them the concern that we of course want to see as many jobs as possible, but let us just put into context for a moment that what is really important to Manitoba ultimately is that we maximize our transportation industry. I would hope that the member is not suggesting that jobs be subsidized in any way in the province but that the railway operates in an efficient manner.

Mr. Reid: Well, then, Madam Speaker, perhaps the Premier (Mr. Filmon) would answer and tell the nearly 200 employees who work at Griffin Canada foundries in Transcona what the long-term future is for their jobs, since nearly 50 percent of Griffin's production is targeted for that CN Transcona Shops operations. What will happen to those 200 jobs at Griffin foundaries?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, in fact, one of the policies of this government has been–in our years in office–to make Manitoba a very competitive place. We have worked very hard to ensure that we are competitive for industry so that they are located in our province because this is the right place to be. The railroad, of course, we would like to ensure that they maximize their job opportunities in our province, but if the member is suggesting that we should somehow be subsidizing those jobs in some way that artificially keeps them in our province, that I would hope is what he is not suggesting. That would be a return to the days of over a decade ago when his party was in power and the Manitoba economy was in the dumpster and on its way down to being very uncompetitive.

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Mr. Reid: I want to ask the Premier, Madam Speaker–perhaps he will answer this question. Now that CN will be building two new wheel shops, one in Toronto and the other in Edmonton, will the Premier explain how Ontario and Alberta are once again winners and Manitoba once again loses rail jobs to another province, or is this Premier a political lightweight amongst his counterparts in Canada?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I am not sure that the member for Transcona ought to be talking lightweight. It might bring some undue attention to him.

The fact of the matter is that this province continues to attract investment in jobs dispro-portionately to virtually every other province in Canada. Over the last five-year period, according to the Conference Board, we have had the second best growth of any province in Canada. In fact, the headline, I guess, in today's newspaper says: Manitoba to lead the west in economic growth.

That is reflective of what we have done in government to make this an attractive place, as opposed to what New Democrats did, which was to drive investment, business and jobs out of our province for all of the time that they were in power under the Pawley-Doer administration. Six and a half black years in this province.

Overall, in transportation and distribution, this province has more people working in this sector than ever before in its history. Over 30,000 people work in transportation and distribution because of the policies of this government. So, for the member opposite to talk about job creation, I remind him that when they were last in office, Manitoba's youth unemployment rate was 3 percent above Canada's, and today it is 5 percent below Canada's. We have the lowest unemployment rate in the country, and the most people employed in our history. That is what it is all about because of the policies of this government.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Premier (Mr. Filmon), and it is in regard to yesterday's questioning with respect to the principal of the Maples Collegiate and the integrity of our standards exams. I start off by quoting the Premier who said yesterday: "unlike the chairman of the NDP campaign who is the person who is proud of exam cheating and promotes it by breaking the rules of the provincial exams and sharing the copy of the exam before it is written with the math teacher." It is apparent that this government knows more than what it has told us in opposition.

My question to the Premier: is the Premier prepared to share with us what information this government has on this whole incident?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the information we have respecting this matter amounts to some very serious concerns. I share with the honourable member concern about any perception that the wrongdoer, the admitted wrong-doer in this case, should be somehow rewarded by being promoted to assistant superintendent of the school division; meanwhile, the person who reports the wrongdoing is being punished. That is what the perception is as raised by the honourable member.

An Honourable Member: Careful.

Mr. McCrae: The member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) asks me to be careful. He might ask the chairperson of the NDP campaign to be careful when it comes to cheating on security matters, when it comes to the testing program that we have in this province. Of course we need to be careful, but we ought not to be hearing it from the honourable member for Kildonan, who seems to support cheating on exams, too.

In response to the–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please complete his response quickly.

Mr. McCrae: In response to the concerns raised yesterday and in response to our own concern, we have contacted the Seven Oaks School Division once again about this matter to see if we could not firm up the date by which we might get a report from them about this matter. We are advised that we will have a report on or before June 18, and at that point we will review that and see if there ought to be any action taken at that point.

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Mr. Lamoureux: My question again is to the Premier. Given his comments yesterday, will he not acknowledge the importance of the role model of our principals and ask, in terms of the Premier, would he back up his beliefs with action, and what sort of actions are you prepared to take in order to rectify this very serious violation of breach of standards exams?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, this is a very serious matter, and I wish honourable–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am experiencing great difficulty hearing the honourable Minister of Education.

Mr. McCrae: This is a very serious matter, and I wish members of the New Democratic Party would treat the matter seriously. The Public Schools Act allows for very, very significant sanctions in the case of wrongdoing, even of the type we are talking about here, Madam Speaker, all the way from a further review of the matter, to reviewing a teacher's certification when a wrongdoing of this admitted nature happens, all the way to the power of the province to remove the whole board of trustees of a school division. I wish honourable members of the New Democratic Party would view this matter as seriously as the Leader of the party said he would, that if his campaign chair did something wrong, he would resign. This is something that the member for Concordia (Mr. Doer) has said, and I think honourable members ought to take this matter just a little more seriously.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask for the government to recognize the political nature of this whole incident and the breach itself and would ask the government to see the merit for presenting a truly independent investigation in this particular incident. I believe the teacher who has been demoted–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the rights of individuals in our province ought to be extremely important to all of us, because if the rights of one are trampled upon, perhaps the rights of all of us are endangered.

The teacher involved in this matter, the one who allegedly, quite rightly, reported on a breach which was later admitted to by Mr. O'Leary, the principal of the school, is now being assisted with legal costs by the Manitoba Teachers' Society. We are attempting to ascertain the present status of that without, by doing so, in any way interfering in the process of grievance.

That being said, I am very concerned also, not only about individuals' rights but about the integrity of our school system, about the integrity of the standards testing system that we have which requires professionals working in the field to behave in a professional manner and not to break the rules, and we want to know what the follow-up to all of that is.

So the honourable member is asking for something more, and I think that, having learned that the report of the division will be available on the 18th, we will review that and then make a decision in regard to the honourable member's question at that point.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, fraudulent claim staking in Manitoba is a very serious issue, given there is approximately $40 million spent annually on exploration. This government's policy of self-regulation of claim staking has proven to be a mistake.

I would like to ask the minister: how many cases of alleged fraudulently staked claims have been raised to the Department of Energy and Mines in the past year?

Hon. David Newman (Minister of Energy and Mines): Madam Speaker, I do not have the specific answer to that question. The only one that has come to my attention is the one instance that was dealt with by the recent decision of the Mining Board.

With respect to this whole issue of inspectors, however, a very confusing approach was put forward by the honourable member for St. James, yesterday dealing with claims inspectors, quarry inspectors and petroleum inspectors. The claims inspectors are simply legal inspection people, and that is why self-responsibility can replace, but quarry inspectors and petroleum inspectors perform a safety, environmental and health responsibility as the honourable member for St. James well knows.

I would like to table a document about fraudulent claims which is both in response to her inquiry today and in response to the honourable member for Flin Flon's (Mr. Jennissen) inquiry yesterday, and I have the date that Harvey Winiasz's complaint came forward and a chronological listing of all relevant events since then.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, is the minister going to inform all those who may be affected by the government's self-regulating policy of the present situation of staking fraud and also inform them that they must be very wary of fraudulent stakers and ensure that any claims that they now hold or may contract out are properly registered and marked since the government of Manitoba will not take on this responsibility?

Mr. Newman: The responsibility, as the honourable member for St. James well knows, having been a civil servant in that department as a geologist before seeking public office, claims inspectors have the responsibility of staking claims properly, and they are licensed to do it properly. They swear a statutory declaration. They declare a statutory declaration confirming they have done things properly.

We have two inspector positions that are responsible for minerals inspection of this kind of legal nature. The responsibility for environmental and safety and health is in another department of government in that connection, and there are ample inspectors to perform the role up to a proper standard. This is not an exclusive self-regulation, but to the greatest degree possible it should be a self-responsibility of claims inspectors and people in the industry to do it properly. For us to get involved ourselves would be going back to the New Democratic government under Schreyer and Pawley and that assorted bunch years ago.

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Ms. Mihychuk: Will the minister now confirm that his policy of self-regulation, self-responsibility for the metallic mineral industry actually is a form of backdoor paper staking?

Mr. Newman: I now see what is behind. I see the web which she is trying to get through. What she is referring to is a concept which is a concept in the province of Quebec called map staking. Of course, if there were map staking, there would be no opportunities for people out in the field to engage in fraudulent exercises because it would all be done in ways that would not involve human beings being out in the field doing those kinds of things.

No question, if she is advocating that as a solution and an absolutely perfect solution and wants to adopt that approach, I would be very interested in hearing more about it during Estimates. But the position of this government and my department is, on a pilot basis, that may be worth taking a look at because it works well in other areas, but beyond that, we believe that the industry is perfectly capable of having a very effective honour system way of dealing with mine claims staking.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): The situation in southwestern Manitoba continues to deteriorate, and it is anticipated that the unseeded farmland in western Manitoba could result in a loss of up to $600 million from the economy of Manitoba, a serious situation not only for farmers but for all of the economy in that part of the province.

In 1997, assistance was provided through a memorandum of understanding as part of the disaster assistance program. This year, as of June 7, the government had not made any application for disaster assistance or for any side agreements for disaster assistance.

I would like to ask the minister responsible whether or not an application has finally been made to Emergency Measures, and any contact that has been had with Art Eggleton's office to ensure that we have proper assistance for the people in southwestern Manitoba, as we did have through this department when the Red River Valley flooded.

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): We have had communication with Emergency Preparedness Canada right from the beginning of this whole situation occurring in the southwestern and western side of the province. As a result of that, we have moved ahead in the various areas under the Disaster Financial Assistance agreement that we have in place with the federal government. We have also had further discussions with Mr. Duhamel with Western Diversification, as that was part of the memorandum of understanding in 1997. As well, my colleague has had discussions with the honourable federal Minister of Agriculture Vanclief with regard to the possibility of some arrangements at that level through the agricultural area. As well, the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Administration has been contacted and they have had discussions. So all of that has taken place and, for the honourable member, our MEMO people have been in the southwest and the western side of the province for quite a while now, and we have been responding to the various claims and the questions that people have out there for us.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.