Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, first, I would like to introduce two delegations in the Speaker's Gallery this afternoon. There is a delegation from Ukraine led by Mykhaylo Stepanov, member of the Parliament of Ukraine. This delegation is in Manitoba this week under the auspices of the Canada-Ukraine Legislative Co-operation Project, studying pensions and social policy.

Also seated in the Speaker's Gallery this afternoon we have the Honourable Judy Bradley, Minister of Highways and Transportation from Saskatchewan.

Also, seated in the public gallery this afternoon, we have 16 visitors from Red River College Language Training Centre under the direction of Mr. Tom Eischen. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Child Development Clinic located at the Children's Hospital is responsible for assessment and diagnosis for preschool kids. It deals with autism, fetal alcohol syndrome, development delays and other absolutely valuable services for kids before they go to school.

There is a six- to eight-month delay at that centre, and the doctor situation is very serious. I would like to ask the Premier: what impact is the existing doctor situation at that centre going to have on an already existing delay for our preschool kids?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): To address that very issue, additional resources were provided starting last year. I think, as the member opposite knows, the Winnipeg Hospital Authority received some $385,000 to provide for five and a half additional speech therapists, additional audiologist and additional support. As well, there has been an additional $950,000 provided to our regional health authorities right across Manitoba, to all of the regional health authorities, again to address this very important issue of providing the services necessary to bring those waiting lists down.

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Mr. Doer: The minister did not answer the question. I asked specifically about the doctors at the centre. As we understand it from the information we have received from parents, there are two and a half doctors at that centre. One doctor is on sick leave; another doctor has given notice a number of months ago that they are leaving in June. The waiting lists are already six to eight months for those preschool kids, and there is a decision that has been made not to replace the doctor that is leaving in June. I would like to ask the minister: why has that decision been made? Why are there not funds to support that centre, and what will the impact be on families and children that need those services?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the funds are there to support that centre, and I have just outlined for the member opposite that the funds were enhanced last year, in 1998, with an additional $385,000 in the case of the Winnipeg Hospital Authority, throughout the rest of Manitoba an additional $950,000 for all of the regional health authorities to address those very important issues of reducing waiting lists for pediatric speech therapy services. So, again, additional resources have been provided to address that very important issue.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, Anne Gajerski-Cauley and her son Cedric visited us today with a petition signed by 180 parents–and I will table this for the minister– who are concerned that losing the doctors will lengthen the waiting list dramatically. They want to ensure that adequate funding is there so the full-time doctor can be replaced for the kids that need those services.

Madam Speaker, the WHA is one funding authority; the university is another funding authority. Whoever has made that decision has basically determined that the doctor will not be replaced. Will this minister take action and make sure that an already too long waiting list will not be lengthened any further with inadequate resources to hire doctors for these kids?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, again, I can only point out to the Leader of the Opposition that not only was the existing funding maintained, the funding was also enhanced by an additional $385,000 in the case of the Winnipeg region alone. I am certainly prepared to look into the specific issue that he is referring to in terms of the individual doctor and the whole issue of the retention or recruitment, but certainly the financial resources have not only been maintained, in fact they have been enhanced. I am sure that is one of the many reasons why they chose to support and endorse our 1999 budget.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, again another re-election regurgitation announcement of this government leading up to the provincial election. The government made an announcement today, and I think it was entirely appropriate that a doctor stood up at this announcement and said: Well, Mr. Minister, finally it is fine and dandy that you are trying to start to do something in health care, but what are you going to do about the fact that the Health Sciences Centre is considering closing 50 percent of the operating rooms over the summer because of a shortage of nurses and the fact that the doctors do not want to stay around if they cannot get operating time? I wonder if the minister might respond to that.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Well, I thank the member for the question and he rolled in many different elements, because he did join me this morning over at St. Boniface Research Centre for an announcement of some $29 million to increase access to diagnostic services and medical services for all Manitobans. A major part of that announcement was an additional $1.5 million to bring down waiting lists for MRI diagnostic tests. We have seen significant reductions in our diagnostic testing waiting times, Madam Speaker, whether it has been CT scans, ultrasounds or other areas. I am certainly pleased that he was able to join us for that very important announcement.

He has asked this question before about HSC. I want to remind him that when it comes to adult and pediatric operating room data for inpatient surgery, this last year alone services for adults were up by about 2 percent, pediatrics were up by 7 percent. Projections from the WHA are that the volumes will continue to grow again in 1999.

As we have discussed, there is a need for some intensive care nurses. We have some 15 graduating this October through our program here in Manitoba. We certainly expect that the majority of them will remain in Manitoba. We are doing everything to be sure that is the case, that they will remain here to continue to fill the vacancies that are in our system. We have indicated on many occasions that we are dedicated to bringing more nurses into our health care system. We have a number of initiatives in place to do just that.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, can the minister explain something that was told to me by a senior physician, a world-renowned physician in Manitoba whom I talked to who said the reason the doctors are leaving is because of the uncertainty of conditions in this province? Can he answer for me what that doctor asked him today, at what was supposed to be a regurgitation of another good-news announcement, why doctors are leaving this province because they do not trust this government, because operating time is going down because they cannot–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Stefanson: The member is dead wrong, and he heard from a doctor this morning at the announcement that he was at who spoke–and he is obviously a professional in the whole area of diagnostic servicing–very clearly to the significant reduction in waiting times for Manitobans when it comes to a number of tests right across our province, whether it be CT scans, ultrasounds or whatever other tests. Again, with the additional resources that were announced today, those waiting lists for MRI testing will continue to go down, and that is a part of the additional resources that we continue to direct in those very important areas.

I have also indicated to him very clearly, when you look at the operations for adults and for children in terms of inpatient surgery in our health care system in the city of Winnipeg, those volumes are going up, Madam Speaker. We are doing more and more services for the citizens of Manitoba. They were up by some 2 percent for adults, up by some 7 percent for children, and the projections from the WHA are that those volumes will be up again. That is in large part because of the resources being dedicated to provide the technology, to provide the support services and so on.

We do acknowledge we need more nurses. We have said that provinces right across Canada–it is not unique to our province. We have a number of initiatives in place which this party across, I gather, is supporting because they endorsed our 1999 budget that includes a number of initiatives to bring more nurses into our health care system in Manitoba.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can this Minister of Health, whose government did not recognize waiting lists two years ago when we had a waiting-list line and only now is recognizing in an election, explain why we have lost the best pathologists in the country, why we are losing one of the best-trained plastic surgeons in the country, why one of the best pediatric neurologists is leaving this province because they do not have faith and trust in this government's ability to plan–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Absolutely, positively not true, Madam Speaker. They do have confidence and trust in this government for a number of reasons in terms of what we have done with the finances by living within our means, by paying down the debt, by having the resources to dedicate to health care where 35.5 percent of all of our spending goes to health care. This budget alone, which those members are supporting, increases health care by $194 million or some 10 percent, up to $2.1 million. Again, the resources are being dedicated to continue to recruit, maintain and retain our very important health care professionals, whether it be our nurses or whether it be doctors in a number of specialty areas.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Yesterday, and no doubt in other places in the halls of the Legislature, the Premier has been indicating that there are all sorts of conditions that he wants to see dealt with prior to this government calling the election. He cited, I understand, CUPE; he cited the nurses' vote. My question to the–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am having difficulty hearing the question being posed.

Mr. Lamoureux: My question to the Premier: can the Premier indicate for the record inside the Chamber as to what conditions he is expecting to see passed or put into place that would allow the Premier in fact to call the election come Tuesday?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I find it fascinating that the member opposite and his Leader are portraying this tremendous sense of confidence about their future possibilities for election when they have, I think, about 20 candidates nominated to date out of 57, and two of the ones that they previously announced are talking to our party about running for us, so I just suggest to him that, as in anything, there is a whole variety of issues that have to be looked at. I am consulting with many people, listening to many people, and having a variety of different discussions that will assist in making a decision.

I will say, of course, that now that we have a consensus government here in the province and that we have a vote of confidence from the official opposition, obviously certain things are not nearly as crucial or as urgent. Obviously, the public will know with great confidence that there is a great commitment to working together in this House.

But I suggest, Madam Speaker, that is a matter not for the discussion of this House. Obviously, these are things that are left ultimately to the government to decide, and we take that responsibility very seriously. I am sure that in the course of the next while, he will get more and more information about this.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I guess I look to the Premier and ask him the question in terms of does he not agree the comments that have been attributed to the Premier are in fact of significant importance to all Manitobans when he says that he wants to see the nurses' issue resolved, he wants to see the other health care unions resolved. Is he just saying that in the hallway, or is he quite sincere that if in fact they are not resolved, and that is the question, then there is not going to be an election call?

Mr. Filmon: I would be happy to repeat those statements here, Madam Speaker. I do not want to contemplate a situation in which the patients of this province are put at some risk as a result of a decision that I or my government takes. So, certainly, those are areas that are weighing on my mind as I weigh the decision.

Mr. Lamoureux: Then I wonder if the Premier can indicate, in making his decision, does he believe, if there is no election call this Tuesday, that in fact then we are looking at a fall election, that we are not going to be going any further than that.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, if I can help the member for Inkster with his vacation planning, I would like to tell him that–

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, the Premier is definitely imputing motives. In Beauchesne's and in our rules, the Premier should not be imputing motives. I wish I could only have half the number of holidays the Premier has, quite frankly. But having said that, I think Manitobans want to know: are we going to have a spring election with Filmon, or are we going to have a fall election with Mr. Manness? What is the scoop? I think Manitobans are interested in knowing that.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Inkster definitely did not have a point of order.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I have I think indicated that election dates have rarely, if ever, been set for July and August, and with the very busy summer schedule here that I suggested to the media, I guess, yesterday that if it were not called in the next week or so, September would be the earliest time that an election could be called. That was just a matter of being as open as I possibly could with the people of Manitoba.

So, if the member wants to have further input to the discussion, I would be happy to sit down with him at some point and find out what his views are on the matter.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, this morning federal Minister Collenette was in Winnipeg to announce that Arthur Kruger would be the facilitator to further the process of rail grain transport reform based on the Estey report. We were, however, disappointed that the federal minister did not agree to a freight grain rate cap review as has been called for by all organized farm organizations. If we are going to have a fair review in process, we must have base rate-line information.

I would like to ask the Minister of Highways and Transportation if he will show leadership today, and given that the federal minister will not call for this review, will he set up a process for a review of the rail line rate costs to ensure that Manitoba producers have the information that they need for this process to take place.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, the member for Swan River and I believe the member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) joined us this morning along with my colleague from Saskatchewan, the Honourable Judy Bradley, who was here for the same meeting and announcement.

One of the points that was made very strongly by the federal minister today–which I take some hope in because I think we do share the same principle at least–is that if you are going to do a review of grain transportation and ensure that the No. 1 objective here, which is to have efficiencies that go back into the pockets of farmers across western Canada, you have to know your base and you have to have some method of ensuring that that happens. Whether that be for the method called for by several farm organizations or the member opposite or another vehicle remains yet, I think, to be decided.

But I can tell the member that part of the discussions we will have and the input that I welcome today in the process for putting some meat on the bones around the Estey report, Manitoba of course will be looking to ensure that there is a proper accounting system included in that.

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Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, given that the efficiencies have not been passed on to producers and it has been proven that the railways have gained up to $200 million annually, will the minister indicate more clearly whether he will facilitate the process so that we can have clear base-line numbers to start this process so that the returns can actually go back to the producers and not to the railways or to other groups but to the farmers in this province?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I welcome very much the comments of the member for Swan River where I think she has clearly acknowledged that the status quo in grain transportation has not been productive to the farmers. As was referred to this morning by many producer groups, the system, the current status quo system has failed, shut down in 1997 and was not adequate, so that there is an acknowledgement.

I welcome the New Democrats joining with us and the work of my predecessor in ensuring change. I can tell her that the point she makes about ensuring that this process results in savings to farmers is critically important to Manitoba, and that position will be advanced.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, then I would like to ask the government if they make the same commitment to ensure that in this process the powers of the Canadian Wheat Board are not undermined, as is being recommended in the Estey report. Will this government make a commitment that they will take the position that the Wheat Board must remain a strong tool for Manitoba farmers as farmers have asked for?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, the member and I sat through the same presentation this morning and a host of organizations, producer organizations, were present and made comments, and generally speaking there was an acceptance of the principles around Estey. Part of the whole issue that has to be developed, of course–and it is regrettable, it is really regrettable that the New Democrats have jumped to conclusions about this process. What has been announced and what the governments of Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta had called for was exactly what is happening this morning, is a process to flesh out the details, put some meat on the bone so that we can see exactly how this process would work before we judge it.

I would hope the member for Swan River might do something unique for New Democrats and that is keep an open mind on this process.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Speaker, I have some questions for the Minister of Health.

For some time now, I have been raising concerns here in the House for the need of the government to reconcile the state of aboriginal health, which is still largely in a treatment mode on the state of health for nonaboriginals which has pretty well evolved to the prevention and awareness mode, in order that a more appropriate health care can be devised, one that would accommodate aboriginal people no matter where they live in this province.

I would like to ask the minister if he has a plan that would accommodate and achieve what I have just described.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Well, Madam Speaker, we have certainly been continuing to work on an aboriginal health strategy. I have had an opportunity to review many elements of that. It obviously is something that requires the co-operation of a number of individuals and organizations, certainly the aboriginal community itself, obviously the federal government because of their responsibilities in the case of First Nations people on reserves and so on. But again, there are various elements of that strategy that I certainly will be prepared to share with my colleague opposite and others very shortly.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): My other question to the same minister, Madam Speaker, is that I would like the minister to advise this House as to what he has done so far to resolve the critical nursing shortage in northern Manitoba's northern nursing stations which serve largely aboriginal people.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Again, Madam Speaker–and it really is unfortunate, in many respects, that we do end up with jurisdictional issues between the two levels of government. I certainly hope we can get to the point where that is no longer the case when it comes to meeting the health care needs of Manitobans, all Manitobans, and certainly First Nations people on reserves.

In terms of the issue that he raises, that issue has been raised by some reserves as a critical issue, as an important issue, and we are certainly working with the federal government to resolve that issue.

Mr. Lathlin: My last question, Madam Speaker, is to the same minister.

Perhaps then he would like to tell this House if he will use some of that $7-million nursing recruitment and retention fund that he originally announced to address this very serious nursing shortage in northern nursing stations that service First Nations.

Mr. Stefanson: Well, I thank the member for the question, and I am certainly prepared to look very seriously at that, Madam Speaker. The whole objective of that fund is to bring more nurses into our system, to keep more nurses in our system, whether it is on reserve or anywhere else in Manitoba. I am certainly prepared to look at utilizing that fund to also assist in that area in terms of providing the required nursing services on reserves throughout Manitoba.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madame la présidente, je voudrais poser une question au ministre de l'Éducation statistiques de–j'attends le ministre, Madame.

Madame la présidente, je peux la poser en anglais aussi, s'il le préfère.

Madame la présidente, les statistiques du Bureau de l'éducation française nous indiquent qu'il y a un déclin des inscriptions d'élèves aux cours de français de base de presque 20 pour cent. Je voudrais demander au ministre de l'Éducation s'il pense que c'est une vraie politique éducative pour la prochaine génération de Manitobains.

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Education. The statistics of–I am waiting for the minister, Madam.

Madam Speaker, I can also ask it in English if he prefers.

Madam Speaker, the statistics of the Bureau de l'éducation française indicate to us that student enrollment in basic French courses has declined by almost 20 percent. I would like to ask the Minister of Education if he believes that this is a true educational policy for the next generation of Manitobans.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): As I hear through the translation, Madam Speaker, I think that the honourable member's question does call for an opinion from me, and sometimes I wonder if the honourable member wants my opinions, because they are not always ones that she shares, in any event. But I am pleased to preside over a department that has made significant strides in recent years in partnership with the Franco-Manitoban community to increase emphasis and programming in the areas of French language education at all levels.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, then would the minister confirm that enrollment in the basic French courses rose steadily during the 1980s and that it began its decline in 1989 and registered its steepest decline after the introduction of the New Directions curriculum document with its much more rigid timetabling? That is the cause of it.

Would the minister confirm that?

Mr. McCrae: I certainly do not accept that. Children of whichever language group in Manitoba have to make their way in the Canada of the future and the Manitoba of the future, and parents of Francophone children as well as Anglophone children are extremely interested in knowing that their children are attending schools where there are standards, something that may be somewhat foreign to the honourable members opposite and something for which their support is questionable.

But, Madam Speaker, I am telling you that the future depends on an education system today that has within it standards and something that shows us that we are meeting those standards. Whether you are getting an education in French or in English, you still have a real world to work in, in the future, and to live in and to share with our fellow citizens. I think that is something that the support of honourable members opposite for having standards in our system is very questionable indeed.

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Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, would the minister tell the House what plans he has to deal with the situation where we have 20 percent fewer students across Manitoba taking basic French courses, important in a new global economy? This was drawn to the attention of his department over a year ago. Will he tell us what plans he has?

Mr. McCrae: One way to ensure declining interest in French language education is to ensure that there are no standards, which seems to be something that is supported by honourable members opposite, Madam Speaker. We stand for having standards, and we stand for achieving those standards, whether it be in the French language or the English language of instruction in Manitoba. Honourable members opposite's questions demonstrate clearly they do not support standards in education. We clearly disagree on that point.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, today we heard about doctors who say that they have no reason to stay in Manitoba. This is not news to us. We already know this. As well, studies tell us that female physicians have particular problems in establishing their practices, and there is a particular problem in the recruitment and training of female physicians. At the same time, Manitoba is suffering from a serious scarcity of female doctors, and of course most women want female doctors. So my question for the Minister of Health is–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please pose her question now.

Ms. McGifford: Yes, Madam Speaker. To the Minister of Health: is it not about time that someone actually sat down and read the physician resource plan developed by Manitoba Health and by Manitoba physicians and actually addressed the issues of recruitment and retention and followed the advice offered in this document on recruiting and training, particularly of female physicians?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): First of all, Madam Speaker, the number of physicians in Manitoba has remained quite stable over the last 10 years at just over 2,000, so to try and portray that we are losing physicians and that we have a major physician retention and recruitment problem is absolutely wrong.

I have certainly had the chance to meet with a number of the organizations, the organization for family physicians, the organizations representing various doctors and so on, and again we continue to look at all kinds of initiatives to retain as many of our graduates as possible, certainly from our Faculty of Medicine, to continue to retain as many as we can. I have been provided information that the majority of this year's graduating class has one example of anesthetists choosing to stay in Manitoba. So again, we continue to focus on doing just that, being sure that we keep a good number of the people graduating from our Faculty of Medicine to provide the services here in the province of Manitoba.

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I asked the minister to address the question of the training and retention of female physicians for Manitoba women who want female physicians. He has not answered the question, not even begun to answer the question.

Mr. Stefanson: I believe there are more female physicians than ever before in the province of Manitoba. Certainly keeping physicians in total, male or female, is something that is very important. Those people who come through our educational facilities, who come through our Faculty of Medicine, I believe it is incumbent and important for all of us to keep as many of those graduates here in our province of Manitoba. I believe fundamentally the majority of them want to stay in the province of Manitoba.

I have also had a chance to meet with organizations representing family physicians. We have had an opportunity as a government to address a number of the issues that are very important to women and to women who are family practitioners. We will continue to do just that to make sure that the Faculty of Medicine continues to be a very positive career opportunity for both men and women in the province of Manitoba.

Ms. McGifford: I guess the minister simply does not have a plan.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Osborne was recognized for a final supplementary question.

Ms. McGifford: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Health: given recent statements in the journal Health Policy, and specifically in the article Can Women Change the Health Care Agenda?, I would like to ask the minister if he can make a commitment to this House today to train not only more specialists but also more female specialists to ensure that there are female specialists and specialists in this province. We know we have no–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, again, I repeat for the member, we certainly are focused very much on retaining the majority of our graduates through our Faculty of Medicine. We have more female medical practitioners in our province than we have ever had in history. It certainly is an excellent career opportunity for both men and women. I have met with family physicians; I have met with female physicians. We continue to address a number of the issues that are of concern to them, whether it be issues dealing with women's health care issues or whether it is with the whole issue of how we compensate our doctors through our tariffs and through our fees.

Again, we have been listening to family practitioners, we have been listening to female family practitioners as to what are the things that we can continue to do to make practising medicine here in the province of Manitoba a very positive and rewarding experience for them.

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, I visited the other day a tenants association from the seniors public housing at 101 Marion Street. They raised concerns with me about everything from the lack of supports for seniors living there to the fact that they are paying twice for hydro, they have had rent increases, there is a lack of maintenance including basic things like wheelchair accessibility for the main floor washrooms.

I want to ask the Minister of Housing why this tenant association and its president, who have been organizing more than 25 events for seniors, once the tenants organization started asking questions about the management of public housing, they have been told to close shop and have been audited, shutting down all of the services that they provide for seniors.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Madam Speaker, one of the great pluses in regard to the Housing portfolio is the fact of working with tenants associations, and I encourage tenants associations to be formed in all of my tenants buildings. The idea behind the tenants association is to have this type of dialogue. It is to bring forth concerns and expressions of concern and change that they feel are necessary in their complex or in their building that they are living in.

As to 101 Marion, if there are specific problems that the member is aware of, I am certainly willing to look at them and try to address them in the best interests of the tenants of that complex, Madam Speaker.

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Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, the tenants association that has been operating there has raised these concerns with the government. I want to ask the government why is it when they start asking questions about their management, that the president is apparently evicted or the percentage of seniors for eviction [inaudible] have your deputy minister hand delivering a letter to the president of the tenants association. Is this what your deputy minister does?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, not taking into consideration the various accusations that the member has brought forth, I would have to look into the specifics, whether this individual is leaving on his own or he or she has been terminated for cause. I am not totally familiar with the case in regard to the one individual as regards his or her termination at this building.

I certainly will look into it for the member for Radisson and report back to her.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the Vision Capital Fund and Manitoba Capital Fund blew through over $10 million in losses due to bankruptcies in companies they were funding in the last 12 or 14 months.

I wonder if the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism can tell the House today who his nominees are on the boards of those two capital corporations to represent the interests of the public sector in the province and the funds that have been given those corporations.

Hon. Mervin Tweed (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, I would just like to inform the member opposite that in '94 the task force identified the need in Manitoba for risk capital, and the companies and corporations such as Vision and Venture were brought in.

I would be more than happy to provide the answers for the member in Estimates, which we will be going to soon.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister who apparently does not even know who is safeguarding the province's interest in these funds, the people who are presiding over which have lost about $10 million in the last 14 months, will he tell the House what instructions have been given to the representatives of the province on this board to stop the losses that have been taking place of Manitobans' money in the unprofitable bankrupt companies that have gone belly-up in the last 14 months?

Mr. Tweed: Madam Speaker, collectively the four provincial government-sponsored risk capital pools, Vision, Crocus, Manitoba Capital and ENSIS, have invested more than $100 million in Manitoba-based, small- and medium-sized businesses. Just a point on that is that the reason and the benefits of this is that in jobs the return is over 23 percent, sales increased by 31 percent, so we see it as a good investment for all Manitobans.

Again, I would be happy to elaborate further in Estimates in the near future.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.