Mr. Chairperson (Ben Sveinson): Good afternoon. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This afternoon, this section of the Committee of Supply meeting in Room 255 will resume consideration of the Estimates of the Department of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship.
When the committee last sat, the minister had commenced her opening remarks but had been interrupted by the committee rising for private members' hour. I will now recognize the minister to complete her opening remarks. She has approximately 40 minutes remaining, if necessary.
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Mr. Chair, on a point of order, did you say 40 minutes?
Mr. Chairperson: That is what I said. The honourable minister I believe has 60 minutes, and opening remarks for opposition critics is 30 minutes, I believe.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, I did not realize that the opening statement could go as long as 60 minutes. It was merely to check that I had heard you correctly.
Mr. Chairperson: What I had originally stipulated is correct. Rule No. 72(2) quite clearly stipulates that.
Educational displays are also being constructed to convey the new knowledge that we are gaining about Manitoba's rich aboriginal heritage, especially for northern schools. Improved public access to heritage information generated by historic resources has been proceeding by computerizing all of the branch's resource centre holdings, provincial and municipal site registers and interpretive plaque databases. In the coming months, we will upgrade the branch's 12,000 heritage site files by applying geographic information systems technology.
We have also recently published 22 info bulletins on various commonly asked questions about heritage. These single-sheet information bulletins are available on request and have been distributed to heritage organizations and libraries.
My department has taken the initiative to produce a series of brochures which promote heritage resources and their contribution to Manitoba tourism. We have partnered with Industry, Trade and Tourism in the production of a brochure on the Norman Region in '97-98 and plan to complete the series this year with a brochure on the Eastman Region.
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Culture, Heritage and Citizenship is also partnering with Industry, Trade and Tourism to assist in the funding for the City of Brandon to undertake a comprehensive study called the Brandon Regional Heritage Plan. This cost-shared study with the City of Brandon will assess the heritage resources of Brandon and area, review potentially complementary developments such as the Assiniboine River corridor plan, and identify sustainable economic and tourism development for heritage resources, thereby ensuring their continued preservation and integration into community life.
Throughout Manitoba there are many special but little known collections in local museums which showcase our historical development. I am very pleased to announce a special Theme Museums initiative which is directed at assisting selected museums that showcase special collections related to Manitoba's unique historical development. Three museums have been selected which have the potential to be significantly enhanced heritage attractions for their communities and for the many visitors to our province. These include the Dugald Costume Museum in Dugald, the Commonwealth Air Training Plan Museum in Brandon, and the Heritage Museum of Gimli. Staff are currently working with these museums in preparation of their business plans.
The Dugald Costume Museum is unique in North America, and its collection of more than 30,000 artifacts spans 400 years of our history. The Commonwealth Air Training Plan Museum in Brandon houses and interprets aircraft and artifacts used in what has been called Canada's greatest single contribution to the allied victory in World War II. The Heritage Museum of Gimli depicts the long and distinguished heritage of our province's Icelandic peoples as settlers and neighbours interacting with other cultures of the Interlake area.
As we head into the millennium, we have a most special opportunity to celebrate our cultural link with Iceland which will be celebrating the one thousandth year of Scandinavian exploration and contact with North America in the year 2000. It is very timely that the Gimli museum will be developed as a special theme museum celebrating, in part, the significant contribution of Icelandic-Canadians to Manitoba development. Such initiatives not only expand knowledge and pride in ourselves as Manitobans, but offer visitors a fresh perspective on Manitoba's enterprising spirit, both past and present.
My department is concerned about the health and well-being of Manitobans and recognizes that individual and community well-being make a significant contribution to our province. To encourage wellness, my department is working with other related departments and agencies in the recreation and physical activity delivery system to develop a provincial wellness promotion strategy. The strategy will be designed to create public awareness, develop intersectoral partnerships and agreements and to strengthen the existing delivery systems to provide opportunities to enhance personal and community well-being.
Manitobans engaged in a more healthy and active lifestyle will assist greatly in the development of healthy, vibrant communities making Manitoba a very positive environment in which to live, to work and to invest. Physical inactivity seriously affects the health and well-being of thousands of Manitobans. National research has shown that almost one-third of our population engages in so little activity they are classified as inactive, and another one-third is classified as only moderately active. As a direct result of their lack of physical activity, these Manitobans are vulnerable to a lower level of health, a diminished quality of life, and a shortened lifespan, while increasing demand and costs for health care.
The physical inactivity issue was discussed by my federal, provincial and territorial colleagues responsible for fitness, recreation and sport at a provincially hosted conference in Clear Lake, Manitoba, in August 1997. We endorsed the Physical Inactivity: A Framework for Action and agreed to set as a joint target a 10 percent reduction in the number of inactive Canadians over the five-year period from 1998 to 2003. We are consulting province-wide to identify meaningful solutions. These solutions will form the basis of Manitoba's physical activity strategy which I plan to release in the 1998-99 fiscal year.
My department will also play a significant role in promoting and distributing Canada's physical activity guide by facilitating training opportunities for people in recreation, physical activity and wellness promotion delivery systems in the use of the guide. In the last few years, the harassment and abuse of sport and recreation participants has gained major media attention. While attention has focused on incidents involving high-profile figures, we know that abuse and harassment may exist in many levels of Canadian society today. Recently, my federal, provincial and territorial colleagues and I agreed to regard harassment and abuse in recreation and sport as totally unacceptable and to renew our efforts to eliminate it. We further agreed to share resources and examples of successful practices as we work toward effective co-ordinated strategies to eliminate harassment and abuse.
Our officials were also directed to work with partners in the delivery system to identify risk factors and to develop strategies to address those risks. Manitoba has been actively involved in this issue for a number of years. In 1996, my department published and distributed a booklet entitled You Can Help Stop Child Abuse and Neglect: Guidelines for Recreation and Sport Leaders.
In addition, the Recreation and Wellness Promotion Branch has consulted with the Women's Directorate on initiatives such as distribution of On the Move handbook to encourage safe recreation and physical activity environments for women and girls in our recreation delivery system.
Through our membership on the Interprovincial Sport and Recreation Council, we have monitored the work of a national collective addressing the harassment and abuse issue, and staff have been actively participating in a provincial collective headed by Sport Manitoba.
In 1998-99, my department will conduct our work in the identification of risk factors and strategies to eliminate this serious problem. My department's Manitoba Framework on Youth-at-Risk: Strategies for Collaboration has been developed to provide guidelines and strategies related to recreation and physical activity in respect to youth at risk. In 1998-99, we are looking forward to working with our partners in the recreation and physical activity delivery system on initiatives designed to minimize or remove risk factors on the part of our young people.
The Regional Services branch of the department supports rural, remote and northern communities in stimulating positive change and encouraging sustainable growth and improved quality of life. Staff deliver programs for many provincial agencies or departments and are a central part of government's efforts to establish on-line regional access points for rural, remote and northern clients. Culture, Heritage and Citizenship is pleased to have implemented the government's active offer concept, which enables province-wide Francophone access to my department. The Francophone regional consultants have also successfully implemented virtual office locations through the use of modern technologies. Equipped with laptop computers, consultants are able to meet with Francophone clients and access resources via the Internet, thereby providing immediate information and results. This virtual office initiative will soon be extended to all regions in my department.
The Information Resources Division provides centralized communication and advertising services for government departments. Through the use of central resources and specialized teams of communicators, the division has reduced the cost of providing government communication services by approximately $2 million annually.
Last spring the division played a key role in Manitoba's emergency response to the flood. The division was responsible for managing the government's entire public and media information response on the local, national and international levels. For the first time in a Canadian emergency, a government Internet website was created to provide detailed information, such as water levels, highway condition reports, flood prevention information and media releases. The website has more than 750,000 hits from 55 countries in just one two-month period. The use of this technology provided public access to very current information while saving government hundreds of hours of valuable staff time during the public emergency.
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The division, in partnership with the Industrial Technology Centre, continues to co-ordinate the content of the overall Manitoba government Internet website; 24 provincial departments or agencies are now on the website, and additional departments are expected to go on-line in the coming months.
I am pleased to announce, as well, that The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act was proclaimed for government departments and agencies during this session. It will be extended in a year or so to educational, health care and other local public bodies. This act will assure Manitobans of balanced and up-to-date information access and privacy rights. My department is engaged in awareness training activities throughout the government to help departments and agencies meet the requirements of the legislation. We have also begun assisting local public bodies to prepare for the extension of the act to provide consistent standards throughout the province in information access and privacy rights.
Construction of the new $2.5-million Hudson's Bay Company Archives vaults began in October 1997 and is expected to be completed in 1998. The construction funds are fully recoverable from the Hudson's Bay History fund as a result of the 1994 donation of the Hudson's Bay Company Archives to Manitoba. Apart from providing the long-term preservation of this national treasure, the project will result in nearly $5 million in gross benefits to the province's economy. According to an economic impact assessment from the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics, about 42 person years of jobs will result.
As part of the national initiative to build partnerships for improved delivery of French language services, Translation Services surveyed other government translation offices to identify common services and opportunities for best practices. This information was shared at a national meeting of officials responsible for translation and French language services held in Winnipeg, February 1998.
I would just like to speak about Citizenship and Multiculturalism now. The purpose of Citizenship and Multiculturalism's Division of promotion and recruitment campaign is to increase Manitoba's pool of skilled immigrants to meet current and future labour and economic development needs. The promotional campaigns highlight opportunities in Manitoba and are focused on the global market of individuals who are in the process of or contemplating a decision to immigrate to Canada.
The promotion strategy includes targeted print, advertising, Internet advertising, Internet communication and conducting informal seminars with posts abroad. This year, the division conducted another successful United Kingdom promotion and recruitment campaign as a follow-up to a 1996 initiative. It has resulted in regular contact with over 500 prospective clients from the United Kingdom and 37 exploratory visits to Manitoba in the past year from Great Britain clients.
The division continues to explore partnerships with other departments, including Agriculture, Education and Training, Industry, Trade and Tourism and Rural Development. A joint Netherlands campaign with the Department of Agriculture promoting the immigration of European hog farmers to Manitoba resulted in exploratory visits by several Dutch farmers.
Ongoing community partnerships include an initiative with the Winnipeg Jewish Community Council and the Jewish Immigrant Aid Services, a promotion and recruitment campaign to Argentina and Brazil followed up on an earlier visit in 1995. To date, over 10 Argentinian families have immigrated to Manitoba and another 23 families are involved in the preapplied and applied stages of immigration.
During the 1997 immigration levels consultations, Manitoba advised Citizenship and Immigration Canada that it recommended continued increases in annual immigration intake. Manitoba's goal is to receive approximately 3.8 percent of Canada's overall immigration, which is consistent with its proportional share of Canada's population.
In 1997, federal funding for settlement and integration programs was increased to reflect the increase in immigration arrivals. Manitoba received an additional $730,000 which it distributed in exceptional one-time grants and increased provincial programs and services. The province was pleased to acknowledge its ongoing support and partnerships with the International Centre by directing the majority of this funding to them. The centre received a provincial grant of $430,000 for a variety of projects, including private refugee sponsorship promotion initiative, including a fund to encourage private refugee sponsorship, a refugees claimant paralegal service, facility and computer equipment upgrading and the purchase of two new vehicles.
The Credentials Recognition Program continues to make a significant contribution to the Manitoba economy by assisting new immigrants and obtaining recognition for their international education credentials and Canadian work experience. In 1997-98 fiscal year, 27 new full-time positions were created by Manitoba employers with funding assistance through the program, and 39 clients accessed training assistance towards recognition of their foreign credentials. Program-monitoring initiatives indicate 99 percent of participating employers are extremely impressed with the clients and this initiative.
The branch's credential assessment service assisted 173 clients with completing documentation on their international credentials in preparation for an assessment with the appropriate credentialing body. Through funding, co-ordination, teacher support, a full-service adult ESL system in Manitoba has been maintained. Continuous intake for generic English, ranging from ESL literacy to intermediate levels, is available during the day, evening, weekends and summer on a full- or part-time basis for up to 1,400 students at Winnipeg School Division No. 1.
Part-time adult ESL classes are offered in other school divisions across rural Manitoba as a need is identified. Red River Community College has delivered the bridge program for college entry and English for academic purposes to 37 students, and employment projects for women have delivered adult ESL to 30 students in conjunction with job search support for groups with occupational-specific language training requirements.
Community ESL programs for women were offered through nine organizations for 13 classes and 207 women who are isolated through family responsibilities. The programming for women was separated from the community ESL program for seniors, responding to the unique characteristics of each age group. The Age and Opportunity Centre was assisted in forming partnerships with various ethnic cultural organizations.
Almost 294 seniors now attend 19 classes at eight sites and are becoming involved in other community activities. Four more communities have expressed interest in participating during the new year. Expansion of ESL for seniors plans include three additional sites, and more activities to encourage interaction and integration among ESL seniors and Canadian-born English speakers. We anticipate that the benefits of this integration initiative for seniors will be evidenced by 1999, the United Nations International Year of Seniors.
Workplace language training was offered to 460 adult ESL learners to prepare newcomers to meet the language requirements in the labour market and in specific work locations. Instruction was provided to whole classes and as tutorials based upon the students' needs.
Emphasizing the goal of healthy families and safe communities, staff provided organizational training and administrative support and guidance on a number of new initiatives. These included the establishment of the Manitoba Cross-Cultural Coalition for the Prevention of Violence and Domestic Abuse and the establishment of the Coalition of Filipino-Canadians on Violence Prevention, as well as organizing their first conference.
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Healthy Relationships, middle years curriculum, was introduced into two new community schools this year at Grades 7 and 8 levels. Evaluation research by the University of Manitoba Research Centre on Family Violence and Violence against Women includes information from both Grade 7 and Grade 8 students.
Through the Multiculturalism Secretariat, the government of Manitoba continues to foster pride in our diversity and strives to achieve equality of opportunity for all Manitobans and to encourage partnerships at all levels to achieve shared goals. With Manitoba's increased focus on immigration promotion and recruitment plans and citizenship development, the close ties between the Multiculturalism Secretariat and our ethnocultural community now plays a greater role in Manitoba's economic growth than before. Through numerous activities such as preparing community profiles, assisting citizens from ethnocultural communities to accessing government services and participating in anti-racism, human rights, and multicultural initiatives, the secretariat is providing valuable support to our community and its growing immigrant population.
In closing, Mr. Chair, Manitoba Culture, Heritage and Citizenship is proud of the role it plays in the growth, development, and the enrichment of the quality of life enjoyed by Manitobans.
I have provided only a brief overview of the programs and services of my department, and I believe that the true measure or demonstration of my department's success is to be found in the daily life of Manitobans. All we have to do is look across our great province. Our arts and cultural communities are among the most accomplished and economically sound in North America. Heritage resources across the province are drawing tourists and film producers in ever larger numbers. The continuous development of recreation opportunities is adding significant and energetic dimension to our communities.
Each year our numerous festivals showcase the talents, ethnic diversity, and the exuberance of Manitobans for visitors from around the world. We are integrating the latest technologies into the mainstream of community life through our library automation and Internet access programs. We are working in partnership with many other departments to strategically position Manitoba as a significant competitor in the global marketplace of the 21st Century.
The people of Manitoba are proud of our cultural achievements, our diverse heritages, our growing communities, our expanding opportunities, our contributions to society and our ability to work together to build a positive and progressive future. The role of Manitoba Culture, Heritage and Citizenship, in working with our partners across the province to realize our fullest potential, continues to evolve as the province itself evolves. We have created a strong and dynamic foundation on which we can and will maintain and expand Manitoba's reputation as a great place to live, work, invest, and to raise a family.
With the assistance of the fiscal strategies presented in this budget, I am confident that my department and the people of Manitoba will continue to do what we do best, and that is to work together for the benefit of our communities, our families, and our future. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the honourable Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship for those comments. Does the official opposition critic, the honourable member for Osborne, have an opening statement?
Ms. McGifford: Well, I have a few words that I would like to say, Mr. Chair. I would like to take the opportunity, first of all, to congratulate on the record the winners of the Prix Manitoba awards. The ceremony was held on Manitoba Day, May 12, which, of course, was a very appropriate time. I thought the note struck that night was the perfect tone and combination of recognizing tradition and the individual talents of the award winners, although two of them were group winners.
Those receiving awards were Marcia Rowat for Distinguished Service, Volunteer-Individual; the Manitoba Historical Society, Distinguished Service, Volunteer-Organizational, and it was received by Dr. John Lehr. I would also like to take this opportunity on the record to congratulate Ms. Céline Kear for her work as the president of the Historical Society. I know that she has been very dedicated and continues to be very dedicated and has done much to further the interests of the Historical Society in Manitoba; also Dr. Lawrence Klippenstein, a Distinguished Service Award winner, Vocational; and Virginia Petch, Educational and Communication. I am sure the minister joins me in congratulating these individuals and, once again, thanking them for their dedicated work to Manitoba.
Perhaps the minister would find it helpful if I outlined the various areas in which I will be asking questions so that she might make the arrangements that are necessary with her staff. I would like to begin with a few general questions, and then I would like to ask questions on Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy legislation; the Manitoba Film Classification Board; I want to ask questions in Culture, Heritage and Recreation, including and specifically some questions on the Manitoba Arts Council; the Arts Branch, questions on libraries and historical resources. Then if the minister agrees, I would like to move on and ask some questions about capital appropriations, after which my colleague from Point Douglas would like to join the minister and ask questions about Citizenship and Multiculturalism.
I note that the estimated expenditures in Culture, Heritage and Citizenship are once again lower than they were in 1997-98. I indicate that there is a definite pattern here. Each year it seems that the actual expenditures are lower than the estimated ones. Then it seems the actual expenditure becomes the estimated expenditure for the next year. So gradually the department budget is whittled away.
In 1990-91, the actual expenditure was $59,614,200, and in 1996-97 the actual expenditure was $51,762,000. That is $8 million or a 13 percent decrease in budget. When inflation, rated at approximately 2 percent, is thrown into the mix, then it becomes apparent that decreases in budget are closer to 23 percent. To rephrase it, 30 percent less was spent in real terms in 1996-97 than it was in 1990-91. I would like to know--perhaps the minister can tell me later--if there is a table or if one can be prepared which traces the figures, the expenditures and salaries and other expenses in grant assistance for the entire department for the years cited. I am really interested in seeing where the decrease exists. Is it in salaries? Is it in other expenditures from the department? Then, I could see exactly, as I said, what the cost to program has been.
I note here that both the Royal Winnipeg Ballet and the Manitoba Theatre Centre have recently announced plans to lay off staff. I wonder if the minister has any plans to help either of these long-established, proven companies which do contribute so much to the economic aspects of our province and, even more, to the cultural life and development of our city.
As I said last year and I say it again, this is especially true with small arts groups. When I speak to artists and arts groups, many of them speak very glowingly of the halcyon years when Eugene Kostyra and, then, Judy Wasylycia-Leis were alternately the ministers of Culture. This is said with no disrespect to this minister, because I realize and I think most Manitobans realize that financial decisions are made in the Premier's Office by the Premier (Mr. Filmon), the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) and by the rather ubiquitous Jules Benson.
Again, as we said last year, corporate sponsorship is not always possible. Larger performing groups are in vastly superior positions to obtain corporate support than our writers and visual artists. Some solutions just are not solutions. I note, too, at this time with federal legislation--and federal legislation specifically in connection with the tobacco industry--the Winnipeg Symphony has been hard hit especially when it comes to its New Music Festival. While I am not a proponent of the tobacco industry and do not smoke, and do not--well, never mind. My personal habits probably are not important. I think the minister and I both realize that arts groups have been hurt.
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I notice that in the department's Role and Mission Statement, the department has identified five long-term goals. While I and my colleagues would argue that the five goals are too limited and that the phrasing is bureaucratic, generally we agree with the department's goals. However, I do indicate that if this government is sincerely dedicated to sustainable economic development, culture and creativity, wellness, quality of life, information, communication, and legacy, then it would do well to stop whittling away at the department's budget.
Certainly the signs of fractures in our creative and heritage communities are apparent. Despite the article published, I think it was January or February of 1996, in The Globe and Mail, an article praising our cultural groups and cultural life, it was an old favourite of the former Minister of Culture, one to which he often alluded, despite this article, the ballet and MTC are laying off workers as I said earlier. Small magazines are working overtime. Primus Theatre has just closed in the core of the largest city in our province; that is, Winnipeg. The largest city in a province which would usually be the site of cultural life and vibrancy is more or less like a war zone. So I am worried. Like many Manitobans, I am worried and look to the minister and government for leadership.
I just wanted to mention to the minister that this morning I had an interesting experience stumbling quite accidentally, led by the dog I walk every morning, into the filming of the Jane Seymour movie. So I had quite an interesting conversation with the film crew. They were right at the corner of Oakwood and Hay, so I welcomed them to the Osborne constituency, and they are filming in one of our larger, beautiful and well-established homes. So people seem to be enjoying themselves.
With those very few remarks, I will turn it back to the minister.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic from the official opposition for those remarks.
Under Manitoba practice, debate of the minister's salary is traditionally the last item considered for the Estimates of a department. Accordingly, we shall defer consideration of this item and now proceed with consideration of the next line.
Before we do that, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table. We invite the minister to introduce her staff.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I would just like to take a moment then to introduce the staff. I think most are known to the members around the table: the deputy minister, Roxy Freedman; the executive director of Administration and Finance, Dave Paton; the assistant deputy minister of Programs Division, Lou-Anne Buhr; and the Agency Relations Manager, Ann Ryan.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister. We will now proceed to line 14.1.(b) Executive Support (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $452,800, on page 30 of the main Estimates book.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder if I could just clear up a couple of housekeeping matters before we proceed.
Mr. Chairperson: Proceed.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder if the minister agrees to the plan I outlined with regard to the member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes).
Mr. Chairperson: We are talking basically general questioning, and then at the end of that time, to pass the Estimates. The honourable member for Osborne, go ahead.
Ms. McGifford: No, Mr. Chair, I just wanted, first of all, to ask the minister if she agreed to the plan I outlined with regard to the member for Point Douglas, and then I have a couple of questions which I am not sure where to ask them. So I wanted to ask the minister for advice as to where they could best be asked. I could ask them now or elsewhere.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, that is how we have operated in the past. I think it has worked fairly well, so I am happy to answer the member's questions and then when she is finished, to have the member for Point Douglas come in to deal with the citizenship issues. If the member would like to ask some questions now, and if I have the information, I will provide it. If not, I will fit it in when we get to that line.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, I recently read the Provincial Auditor's Report, Volume 1, for 1995-96, and in that book there was a section entitled Nature of Accountability Information to be Reported. In that book, the Provincial Auditor says--the book describes what is expected in accountability and then what was found, and what was expected, if I might quote from that: "we expected that planning information would include a description of what the department or service appropriation is all about and what it plans to achieve."
Now, I believe the department does that in the Estimates book. We also expected that performance information would include a description of what the department or service appropriation had achieved in relationship to its plans. It would seem to me that work is done at least to some degree in the annual report, or annual reports.
Further on, the Auditor says: We note that the Department of Finance instructions were developed several years ago--the instructions from the Department of Finance--and at that time reflected the levels of accountability reporting that was considered the most appropriate. Demands on limited public resources have resulted in an increased interest in accountability reporting and for more transparency. We believe that contemporary public expectations of accountability are more comprehensive than current practices. As a result, in our view the stated purpose of the Estimates Supplement and annual report documents do not adequately address the information needs of today's governing bodies including the Legislative Assembly to ensure the effective governance of public resources.
Now, I know that this government values accountability and measurability. I know there has been an increased emphasis put in other institutions and in private corporations on the use of measurable objectives and performance indicators, wherever this is possible. With that in mind there is a section, and this may be very difficult to follow, I am aware, there is a section entitled Accountability Information Not Currently Required by the Department of Finance Instructions.
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I would like to ask the minister, although these are not currently required, if her department has developed any policies or has any plans to do so. The first one is: Government policies to be complied with. Presumably then, the auditors are suggesting that a department outline which government policies it has to comply with. I wonder if the minister could inform me as to what they might be.
Mr. Chairperson: If I might, just while we are waiting here, if I might just add, to confirm, if you will, in fact we have agreed to the line of questioning in the order that the member for Osborne wished; also, that the member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes) will be asking questions on Citizenship and Multiculturalism. Agreed? [agreed]
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I understand that this has been an important issue across government. I can speak for my department in terms of where we are in the process. That is, again, with the full knowledge of the Auditor. We have had an emphasis at this point on planning, so that is what the member has seen in terms of both my speech that I have recently given and also what was in the Estimates book. Then we will be continuing to work with the Auditor and other government departments.
I would say, though, however, that we were one of three departments who actually were the pilots in terms of beginning this process, and that is the point we are at now and we will be making every effort to continue working towards what is required.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, the second line from the table from which I recently quoted is the department's long-term objectives, and I see those represented in the Estimates book. I wonder if there are performance indicators for each long-term objective and, if they are not in the book, are they available?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, as part of the pilot we are in the process of developing those.
Ms. McGifford: So they may, for example, be available before the next time the minister and I meet and, if that is the case, would the minister provide me with a copy?
Mrs. Vodrey: No, they will not be ready that soon, as I assume we will meet within a day or so, but if the member means maybe before next year, it is hard to assess. It is, I would think, very possible that that would be the case and that we are reviewing and trying to work them out. So if the member is speaking about next year and should she expect to see the next step next year, I am hopeful that you will be able to.
Ms. McGifford: Just to continue, it would seem to me that some of these lines do not apply to this department. But I wonder if there are outcome measures for program services and administrative functions and if they are available.
Mrs. Vodrey: As in the last question, this is an area that we are working on. There is not a document or anything that I am able to provide for the member today, but I think in the overall sense of her questioning she wants to know, is there in fact an effort to work towards what has been articulated? I can say, yes, there is.
Ms. McGifford: I also have some questions on Freedom of Information, and I wonder if the minister would like me to ask those now or to do that later.
Mrs. Vodrey: We could answer those now. It would require my bringing another staff member to the table, and the staff member is available. If that is agreeable to the member then we will do that.
Ms. McGifford: If that is agreeable to the minister, it certainly is to me.
Mrs. Vodrey: Just for this line of questioning I would like to introduce Sue Bishop, who is the executive director of provincial services, to the member.
Ms. McGifford: In the minister's opening remarks, she spoke about The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, at least parts of it having been recently proclaimed, and she also talked about awareness training. I wonder if she could provide some details of this awareness training, such as who is doing it, what it includes, who is being trained, that sort of thing.
Mrs. Vodrey: I can just tell the member that at the moment more than 1,500 provincial and local government officials at executive and staff levels have participated in briefing and workshop sessions concerning the provisions of both FIFA and the companion statute. That training has been done by our own staff.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, is the point of the training to familiarize these people with the act or to help them deal with the public or both? What exactly are the goals of the training?
Mrs. Vodrey: The goals actually are both. They are to have a direct familiarity with the act and also then in working with the act to deal with the public.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder what the cost of the training is.
Mrs. Vodrey: There has been one staffperson who has been dedicated to this process, and the costs have been absorbed within my department.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder if the minister could tell me what portion of that staff member's time has been devoted to the training and from that proportion perhaps put a figure to the cost of the training.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am informed that for that staffperson it is virtually 100 percent of her time, so it would be the full salary of that staffperson.
Ms. McGifford: Could the minister tell me the amount of that full salary?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am struggling a bit in wanting to answer the member's question, but in having identified a single staffperson and then naming that person's specific salary, I am trying to figure out where the line in terms of personnel issues is, but I can tell the member that for a person in and around that person's category, it would be in the low 40s.
Ms. McGifford: I wanted to make reference to the annual report for 1996-1997, and particularly the letter from the deputy minister. In the last paragraph, the deputy minister writes: During 1996-97, the department developed plans to introduce The Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act to replace The Freedom of Information Act. The new legislation will balance the right to information, the right to privacy for all Manitobans. Public consultations supported the extension of the new act to local government and other public bodies, so that Manitobans benefit from consistent handling of their access and privacy rights.
I wonder if the minister could provide me some details of these public consultations, because I am certainly not aware that there were public consultations.
Mrs. Vodrey: I think the member is understanding this refers to a discussion that we had last year in Estimates around the consultation in the development of the act and that the consultations that occur were that there were a wide number of letters sent out which, in fact, encouraged people to respond and to provide points of view.
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In fact, people could either respond in writing or they could come and meet with the staff and to also discuss in person those issues, so this is sort of the same issue which we did discuss last year. There was a wide distribution of discussion papers. All libraries held this discussion paper. I understand it was also on the Internet and then people were asked to respond to this discussion paper.
Ms. McGifford: Well, Mr. Chair, I think I would like to put on the record that I think the words "public consultations" in this context is a little misleading. I think there is quite a difference between a letter sent out inviting discussion or a discussion paper inviting a written response and a public consultation which gives the impression at least of public meetings where individuals from any and every walk of life can present themselves and provide their points of view on freedom of information and privacy protection. I may be nitpicking, but I think there is an important distinction here and I want to make it.
Mrs. Vodrey: I know the member and I have had this discussion before on the process of consultation, and it certainly was open to anyone to give a response who had an interest in doing so. There was an attempt to stimulate response by virtue of the letter, by virtue of the circulation of the paper, by having the paper widely available in places that people could easily access it, that being libraries, that being on the Internet. I am informed that all requests for meetings were also met, so where an individual had a point of view that they wanted to make in the development of the act, that point of view was recognized. The person could either write it down and send it in so there was a formal record or the person could ask for a meeting. I understand all of those meetings were met.
Ms. McGifford: Well, the minister is right. We have had this discussion before and perhaps we will not have it again, but just for today I do want to make the point that I see something like the national unity task force, which travelled around the province, which advertised very widely its coming as a public consultation or providing the opportunity for a public consultation. When a discussion paper is sent out to a limited number of people, even if it is widely circulated the number of people who receive it, who actually know something is happening is limited and yet, the freedom of information and privacy protection affects the lives and rights of all Manitobans, and I think the process was narrow. I am sure the minister and I are not going to agree on this and perhaps we should leave it at that.
I do want to ask some questions on the Manitoba Genealogical Society or from their perspective, so I do not know if the minister wants to respond to what I just said before I move on.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, my response is that the member has put forward her position and would have preferred another process. The process that we followed we believed was one which did provide a wide opportunity for response. It is one of these points where we will have to agree to disagree. However, I understand it is strongly felt by the member. That is why it is raised again. I appreciate her comments.
Ms. McGifford: I wanted to ask the minister some questions put to me by the Manitoba Genealogical Society. I do not know if the Manitoba Genealogical Society has contacted the minister or her staff, but my understanding is that they are disturbed because the new freedom of information privacy protection legislation has made or will make their research quite challenging and, in some cases, almost impossible. First of all, they wondered, and perhaps I can ask the minister if this kind of complexity was foreseen when the legislation was introduced, that is, was the intention to prevent the kind of research they do?
I understand that one of their largest problems is in accessing the voters list and Vital Statistics. I know they are having problems with census information, but I am assuming that would be part of the federal jurisdiction. So perhaps I could leave it. I know that with the voters list, I know that we recently in this Legislature, I think it was three years ago, took steps to protect voters.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am informed that to my knowledge and the knowledge of the people at this table, who likely would have received a communication, to our knowledge no communication has been received. So obviously where there is a communication, we try and assist groups to clarify if there is any misunderstanding.
I would also say, in terms of The Elections Act, that The Elections Act Manitoba takes precedence over The Freedom of Information Act. As the member rightly remembers, following the last election there was a concern about the public availability of that list with names and addresses. Therefore, changes were made in that act.
Ms. McGifford: Yes, and this side of the House was very pleased to support the changes to The Elections Act.
The individuals from the Manitoba Genealogical Society do assure me that they agree with protection and that they believe too in reasonable accommodation, which they cite as being around 25 to 50 years, but they said they believed that this legislation would not allow--that the reasonable accommodation was, I think, a hundred years.
Now, I do not know whether all this information is correct or not; I really have just quickly perused the regulations. I wonder if the best line of action for the group might be to make an appointment with the minister or with staff, and maybe the minister could give me some advice which I could pass along to them.
Mrs. Vodrey: It would be best, I think, and most productive for the association to meet with staff who have a very good knowledge of the working and could deal with the technicalities that may be raised. The person that I would suggest that the member recommend to the Genealogical Society is Sue Bishop, who is with me at the table today.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder, Mr. Chair, if this group was invited to respond to the initial paper that was circulated by the former minister, and I sent out, I believe, in spring 1996.
Mrs. Vodrey: We would have to check.
Ms. McGifford: I would appreciate that. I would appreciate if the minister would check.
The other thing I wanted to mention about Freedom of Information was that I noticed in the annual Freedom of Information report for 1996, which was before the new legislation, of course, that the number of applications received and processed has increased. I wonder if the minister or her staff have considered why this might be the case. I wonder if they have any information as to whether this is a pattern in other jurisdictions.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am informed that the request rate or application rate simply varies from year to year, that there is not an analysis of why there could have been a rise in applications one year and perhaps a lowering of applications in another year. It seems to simply be a rhythm of issues. However, I can tell the member that I am informed that our response rate, even though the numbers were up, was very good, and in fact 90 percent were cleared within 30 days.
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Ms. McGifford: I thank the minister for her answer. I am concerned about the impact of the new legislation and what it will be on fees collected. Indeed, I have been hearing more and more from individuals and groups who are really staggered at the cost of freedom of information. I just note in the legislation, note from the regulation, the fees. For example, the fee payable for search and preparation is $15 for each half hour in excess of the two hours. Then copying fees, I do not need to read them. I am sure that everybody is very familiar with the fees.
I wonder if the minister might tell me how the fees in Manitoba compare to other jurisdictions.
Mrs. Vodrey: In the setting of the fees, we looked at other jurisdictions, and we believe that our fees put us in an approximately middle-of-the-road position and that our fees before this had not had any change or variation in some time. So there has been some variation, but again that variation puts us in a middle-of-the-road position in relation to other jurisdictions in the country.
Ms. McGifford: It does concern me that Freedom of Information--well, it certainly is not free when we are talking about it from a cash point of view. I notice that regulation 9(1) Waiver of Fees reads: At the applicant's request, the head of a public body may waive all or part of the fees payable under this regulation if the head is satisfied that (a) payment would impose an unreasonable financial hardship on the applicant.
I wonder how that decision would be made.
Mrs. Vodrey: The decision would be made on a case-by-case basis.
Ms. McGifford: So there is no policy or guideline. It is simply at the discretion of the head of the public body.
Mrs. Vodrey: Well, this is new legislation, and so at this moment it is probably best to describe that discretion or that ability to waive as being on a case-by-case basis. As we have more experience with the legislation, as we then look at where case by case there have been waivers, there will be an opportunity then to look with reference and some further development in terms of reference points.
Ms. McGifford: Then I would like to voice my concern at this point. That is, there are, of course, many heads of public bodies; and, presumably, people being very different, heads of public bodies will make different decisions about unreasonable financial hardships on applicants. So my concern is that there will not be consistency, and in a case where there is no policy or guideline I would be very concerned. It concerns me.
Mrs. Vodrey: Well, I would just say to the member that having the waiver is, in fact, new. It is an improvement in this act, whereas in the past there was not the opportunity or the option to have that waiver. So, with this new provision--and we believe a new and improved provision in this act--we do have to deal with it case by case.
When the member asks to have it done perhaps in a centralized way then, I could just say that by centralizing it would probably provide a significant delay if it was not done by the individuals within each department.
Ms. McGifford: Actually, Mr. Chair, I am not questioning the wisdom of having a waiver-of-fee clause at all. I agree with the minister that it is probably an excellent idea. Nor am I suggesting a centralized way of doing this work either. What I am suggesting is perhaps it would be important to have some guideline or policy so that individuals are treated equally in different offices.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, well, again, this is, as I said, a new part of the act that we do want to see. We have tried not to be limited. We have placed the issue of a waiver in. We believe it is an improvement. We were not restrictive on how that waiver should apply. We have provided a couple of principles that would guide the person making the decision; and now with the act, which, we believe, is overall an improvement, not only this particular clause, we will just have to watch it unfold on a case-by-case basis.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder if the minister could tell me where the access and privacy directories are housed; that is, how available are they?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, they are housed in every public library. All libraries have them.
Ms. McGifford: Formerly, I believe that all members of the Legislature had one.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, we were just having a short discussion and saying, I believe, caucuses would have had them. If by chance the member's caucus does not have one, we can certainly make that available.
Ms. McGifford: Well, actually my caucus has one, but I would like to have one too.
Mrs. Vodrey: The answer is yes.
Ms. McGifford: Thank you. Just to move on with general questions.
I am slightly unclear about something, and that is that I understand, and perhaps my understanding is misplaced, that the minister is required to table several reports annually in accordance with legislated acts. Perhaps I could ask the minister, because I appear not to have had all these reports. For example, I do not have the annual report of the Manitoba Film Classification Board.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am informed that is contained within our annual report.
Ms. McGifford: Is that true, then, of the Manitoba Heritage Foundation, the report of the Legislative Library, and the report as designated in The Public Printing Act?
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Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am informed that the first act the member spoke about, the Heritage--I beg your pardon? Diane, sorry, I could not hear you.
Ms. McGifford: It is called the Report of the Manitoba Heritage Foundation.
Mrs. Vodrey: I understand that the Report of the Manitoba Heritage Foundation is not tabled simply because it is an act which I am informed allows us to acquire property. We simply do not use it; therefore, there is no activity.
The other two reports, The Public Printing Act and The Legislative Library Act are both contained within the annual report of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder if I could ask the minister about Systemhouse desktop project. I would like to ask the minister if Culture, Heritage and Citizenship is part of the Systemhouse desktop project?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, we are.
Ms. McGifford: Could the minister tell me whether Culture, Heritage and Citizenship will be losing any jobs as a result of contracting out?
Mrs. Vodrey: The answer is no.
Ms. McGifford: Could the minister tell me, please, the cost of this Systemhouse desktop project?
Mrs. Vodrey: The cost for us this year is approximately $92.2 thousand, which we have been able to accommodate within our budget.
Ms. McGifford: Will the department be requiring new computers as a result of this Systemhouse desktop project, and, if so, how many?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, we will require new computers and the total number within my department are 313.
Ms. McGifford: The minister in her introductory remarks talked about, I believe, chairing the Millennium Celebrations Committee, and I wonder if the minister could provide any details about her work as chair of that committee, such as what is planned.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, I am the minister who has responsibility for the millennium planning, but I am still in the process of actually finalizing what I will be announcing. I guess that is sort of an awkward way to put it, but I will be making an announcement very shortly about how our government will be approaching the millennium. I am not quite ready to make that announcement yet.
Ms. McGifford: I will look forward to that announcement with great pleasure. I understand, then, Mr. Chair, that we are on line 14 (1)(b). I wonder if it would be here that I might ask the minister about her travels on behalf of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, this is fine.
Ms. McGifford: I understand that in October the minister and the deputy minister travelled to England, or to Britain I should perhaps more correctly say, on October 12 and returned from Britain on October 20. Is that correct?
Mrs. Vodrey: No, Mr. Chair. Those are not the correct dates.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder then if the minister could provide me with the correct dates. These are the dates that I obtained under Freedom of Information.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am sorry, I am embarrassed to tell the member I do not have the exact dates in front of me. I have lots of information and not those exact dates, so I would rather get a calendar to give her the exact dates. But from what I understand, the dates that she had us leaving, I can tell her we left on the Sunday of the Thanksgiving weekend, and I would have to check if that was October 12.
I am also trying to be clear, but I would have to check. October 20 was very likely the day that we left London and went to Edinburgh, and then there were working days in Edinburgh following four or five more working days in Edinburgh. So I would have to clarify the end date for you, but, for myself, I returned home on the Saturday which made it approximately 14 full days.
Ms. McGifford: I would appreciate the dates both of the time in London and the time in Edinburgh. The dates of October 12 through October 20 were the dates sent to me through Freedom of Information.
Mr. Chairperson: The members are being summoned to the Chamber for a vote. We shall now recess and proceed to the Chamber.