Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, just to share with honourable members my thinking for the moment, this is in conversations with various members. I expect that today we will move to a review of the Estimates.
Tomorrow, there will be a number of bills to introduce for second reading, and we could proceed after that, should it be the desire of honourable members, to further discussion of bills or Estimates, and we will see how that goes tomorrow.
I expect on Thursday morning to have a small number of bills to see brought forward for second reading, and it should not take very long on Thursday morning, and then we could proceed to Estimates after that. That is the way I see it happening at the moment.
Mr. McCrae: I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Education and Training (Mrs. McIntosh), that Madam Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty.
Motion agreed to.
(Concurrent Sections)
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Tweed): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This afternoon, this section of the Committee of Supply meeting in Room 254 will resume consideration of the Estimates of the Department of Family Services. When the committee last sat it had been considering item 9.4. Child and Family Services (c) Child Day Care on page 57 of the Estimates book.
9.4. Child and Family Services (c) Child Day Care (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $2,097,400--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $474,900--pass; (3) Financial Assistance and Grants $45,689. Is that right? $45,689,000.
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Chairperson, perhaps this process is educational for all MLAs so that now all the people present here know that the budget for Child Day Care is $45 million.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Tweed): $45,689,000. The item is accordingly passed.
Mr. Chairperson in the Chair
Mr. Chairperson (Gerry McAlpine): Resolution 9.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $187,020,400 for Child and Family Services for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1999.
Mr. Chairperson: I have a ruling for Committee of Supply, Room 254.
On May 11, 1998, the Acting Chairperson took under advisement a point of order raised by the honourable member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale).
It concerned the response of the honourable Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson) to a question asked by the member for Burrows. The member for Burrows had asked the minister a question regarding the timing of fire inspections at the Three Bears Day Care in Pine Falls, Manitoba. The honourable Minister of Family Services advised that she would not discuss the matter as criminal charges may be pending. When speaking to the point of order, the member for Burrows asked that, since the sub judice convention is not a rule, the Chairperson ask the minister to answer the question posed.
Beauchesne does contain several references to the sub judice convention and there have been several Speaker's rulings in Manitoba that have considered its application. Beauchesne Citation 505 states "members are expected to refrain from discussing matters that are before the courts or tribunals which are courts of record. The purpose of this sub judice convention is to protect the parties in a case awaiting or undergoing trial and persons who stand to be affected by the outcome of a judicial inquiry. It is a voluntary restraint imposed by the House upon itself in the interest of justice and fair play." Beauchesne Citation 506.(1) states that "the sub judice convention has been applied consistently in criminal cases."
* (1530)
I would draw to the attention of the committee that Speaker Rocan ruled in 1992 that while the sub judice convention is a voluntary restraint and is not a rule, it does apply if a matter involves a criminal issue. I would also draw to the attention of the committee that Speaker Walding ruled in 1983 that "Members will note that Citation 339, that is from Beauchesne, 4th Edition, makes it clear that the responsibility of whether questions are proper and are to be asked and answered lies principally with the members involved, the overriding principle in this case clearly being that the members should not make statements which may prejudice the case. The responsibility therefore is clearly with the honourable minister wishing to answer the question and with the minister to whom it is addressed."
Speaker Walding's ruling was cited in a subsequent ruling in 1993. Accordingly, I would rule that the honourable member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) does not have a point of order and that the minister may refuse to answer a question if she feels a response would prejudice this matter.
The last item on the committee for Family Services to be considered is the Estimates for the Department of Family Services item 9.1. Administration and Finance (a) Minister's Salary. At this point we request that the minister's staff leave the table for the consideration of this item.
Item 9.1. Administration and Finance (a) Minister's Salary $26,300.
Mr. Martindale: I would like to correct a figure in my opening statement in Family Services Estimates regarding the number of individuals receiving food from Winnipeg Harvest. The correct figure should have been shown as 34,600 individuals.
Mr. Chairperson: 9.1.(a) Minister's Salary $26,300--pass.
Resolution 9.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding--[interjection] Does the minister wish to make a final statement?
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Yes, Mr. Chairperson. I just want to thank my honourable friend for passing my salary and showing some confidence in my ability to deal with the very significant issues that we have to deal with in the Department of Family Services, but I also do want to thank those Chairs that have supported this committee, the pages, and the staff of both Hansard and the Clerk's office for the good job they have done. Also I would like to thank staff in the Department of Family Services who have certainly helped implement the policies of our government in a very professional and meaningful way to ensure that we have lived up to our commitments that we have made.
We have worked in a very expeditious way to try to deal with many of the most needy citizens in our community and our Manitoba society. So with those comments I would just like to thank my honourable critic too for allowing this process to come to a positive conclusion. Thanks, Mr. Chairperson.
Mr. Chairperson: We thank the honourable minister for those comments.
Resolution 9.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $7,526,600 for Family Services, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1999.
This completes the Estimates of the Department of Family Services. The next set of Estimates will be the consideration of this section of the Committee of Supply of the Estimates for the Department of Justice. Shall we briefly recess to allow the minister and the critics the opportunity to prepare for the commencement of the next set of Estimates? [Agreed]