4th-36th Vol. 37-Oral Questions

Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon seventeen Grade 5 students from River West Park School under the direction of Mrs. Lynn Butler and Ms. Kelly Waite. This school is located in the constituency of Charleswood.

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, we have been raising the issues that have come to us from patients and staff at the personal care homes and from families of loved ones at personal care homes that talk about the deplorable conditions that their family members are sometimes in and the kind of serious crisis that is in our personal care homes in Manitoba for their loved ones.

In 1995, the government had an interdepartmental report that talked about lack of medical standards, talked about varied standards from one personal care home to another, and the government stated that they would take action on this report that they made public at the time. I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon): why has this government not implemented the recommendations dealing with medical standards in our personal care homes in Manitoba?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): To be blunt, I think the Leader of the Opposition exaggerates greatly as to the state of care in Manitoba personal care homes. I visited many, many personal care homes around this province. Other members of this Legislature and this government have, and they are very stressful places and from time to time some of them encounter difficulties that are addressed by their regional health authority, by their owners, operators and by the Ministry of Health, but generally speaking, the level of care in our personal care homes across this province is excellent. Our personal care homes provide a tremendous level of care, and for the Leader of the Opposition today to rise in this House to leave the impression that there is a crisis in our personal care homes, all he need do is visit many, many of them across this province. There are exceptions from time to time, but generally speaking the level of care is excellent, and the Leader of the Opposition, quite frankly, exaggerates.

Mr. Doer: To be perfectly blunt, the minister did not answer the question. The government provided an interdepartmental report in 1995 recommending medical standards so that we would not have varied standards across the province. I asked the Premier to tell us why they have not implemented that report. The minister did not answer the question. The government promised that they would implement that report in 1996. The nurses, in terms of the medical crisis, have indicated that the situation is more serious and more in crisis in terms of patient neglect in personal care homes than it is in our acute care hospitals, where of course there has been a lot of public attention to the situation on patient care in our health care facilities, our acute care health facilities.

I would like to know what has happened with the commitment this government made to the families of patients in personal care homes that they would implement the recommendations of the committee by March of 1996.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, during my tenure as Minister of Health we have certainly worked very hard to ensure that standards are maintained and kept and improved and unified across our personal care homes. In fact, we have done some revitalization in our own branch. Last year we reinstated the spot checks, the unannounced spot checks. One of the things we are in fact doing, as I have informed his critic in the Estimates debate, is bringing to this Legislature during this session a request for the legislative power to create the licensing scheme for personal care homes that has not existed in our legislation in past days.

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I can tell the member, as I told his critic in Estimates debate, that if you look at the number of calls and complaints we receive on our complaint line--one of the things that we have set up--they are a very, very small number compared to the literally thousands of people who are at our homes, so his comments about a crisis or lack of care, again, are exaggerated to the people of this province.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Eighty-seven percent of nurses working in personal care homes feel that three areas of patient neglect have developed in the care home since 1995, a lot of that time under the so-called tenure of this Minister of Health and certainly under the responsibility of this Premier (Mr. Filmon).

I would like to ask the minister: does he have the inquest report on Julius Molnar, the patient at the Holiday Haven Nursing Home? Has the government received that report, and when will they be making public that report?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): First of all, the member quotes the report put out by the Manitoba Nurses' Union. I can tell him, as I told his critic, we had staff in who operate our information line where families of Manitobans who are in personal care homes can call us anonymously to provide any concerns or have their complaints investigated. The number we receive on that particular service is very, very small. So, again, it suggests that, although there are problems from time to time, they are nowhere near what the member suggests.

As the Leader of the Opposition should know--I believe he is referring to a coroner's inquest with respect to that death--the coroner is the person or the judge doing the inquest, makes the report public to all, does not provide it to the government beforehand. So I, like him, await the report on the same basis when the judge decides to make it public.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, would the Minister of Health then say that Mrs. Vicki Carabelas, that Georgina Carabelas, that others who were with us this morning are all exaggerating when they tell stories of open bedsores that were brought to the attention of the staff of the homes by the families, older people who are halfway out of their beds because someone forgot to replace the pads on the sides of their beds that keep them from falling through?

Madam Speaker, is he suggesting that these people who have expressed their concerns are simply exaggerating, that they are the only ones in Manitoba with problems?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, first of all, I am not suggesting that individuals with their particular issues--but we do know when individuals bring issues to members of the New Democratic Party, the very real facts that they may have experienced tend to get exaggerated for other purposes, and that has been the experience of all of us in this Legislature in hearing reports from members opposite.

As we indicated, there are problems from time to time. Sometimes there are problems with the management of a particular facility in the way they address standards of care. That was part of the issue at Holiday Haven. We have put into place--we are building within the Ministry of Health the kinds of safeguards or check system that allows those complaints to be followed up. It is progressing. It is not entirely where I would like it yet, and that is why we are coming to this Legislature for the authority for the first time really in the history of this province to put a more intensive licensing system into place.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, what has the minister done in reaction to the complaints of Vicki Macfadden and Georgia Kostakos in regard to their mother Photina who is a patient at Vista Park Lodge, who has lost more than half of her body weight since she was admitted to that facility, who has suffered serious bedsores which have had to be brought to the attention of staff by the family, whose windows are nailed shut because she is not allowed to have fresh air? They call it an air conditioning system; it is fans out in the hall. Has he done anything in reaction to this woman's concerns?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I know that each complaint that comes in to the ministry, whether it be in our intake system we have across the province or through letters from opposition members or to myself, they are investigated, but I must say when an individual tells me that someone has lost half their body weight, that there are obviously great medical issues here with the elderly that physicians should be addressing. So I will endeavour to get for the member what detailed information regarding this case I can and provide it to the member. I will give that undertaking today. I do not have that detailed information with me in the House.

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Mr. Sale: Will the minister acknowledge that he has had in his hands all of the details required to investigate this issue since November 27, 1997, that his staff responded: we have got your letter, on December 10, and they have heard nothing back from the minister in the four months that have followed? This minister has a complaint system that does not work. I will table that letter, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I was not sure if the member had actually asked a question. We literally get hundreds of pieces of correspondence--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Praznik: I am answering, Madam Speaker--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Crescentwood is out of order. The honourable Minister of Health, to complete his response.

Mr. Praznik: I do not have complete information on that file, as I have indicated that we receive literally hundreds of pieces of correspondence into my office every day. They are provided to the appropriate individuals within the department. I do understand that as a result of that concern that was raised, there has been at least one unannounced visit of that facility to discuss their staffing issues and issues related to this case. I will be pleased, Madam Speaker, when I have more detailed information, to share it with the member for Crescentwood.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, I have some questions for the Minister of Highways and Transportation.

Before I do that, I would like to extend the opposition's sincere sympathies to the people that died in the helicopter crash last week in Wasagamack: Flora Harper and Bernadette Harper and of course the pilot, Jacques Nollette, and also to their families and friends, our deepest sympathies, and of course we wish the survivors, Samuel Harper and Epstein Harper, a very speedy recovery.

My question for the minister is that the Wasagamack Airport Project has been discussed for quite some time now, Madam Speaker, and I do have a letter that was sent to me by the minister, which I would like to table, back in October of 1994. I would like to ask the minister precisely what is happening with the Wasagamack Airport Project, and I want to ask the minister particularly: how much money has been allocated for that airport this year?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, I would also like to, on behalf of this side of the House, extend our sympathies to the injured and to the families of the deceased of that tragic accident that happened a few days ago at Wasagamack.

Over the course of the last two or three years, we have negotiated a cost-sharing agreement with the federal government, some 70 percent federal, 30 percent us, for a project totalling about $16 million for the airport and 28 kilometres of connecting road. Since we have negotiated that, the province has set aside approximately $800,000 this year for survey and design and engineering activities associated with designing the airport for Wasagamack, and it will be a runway strip of 4,400 feet.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, there is some other documentation I would like to table, and that is a letter from Indian Affairs to the chief and council of Wasagamack essentially saying that the project has been deferred.

I would like to ask the minister whether or not he has received an explanation from the federal government as to why they deferred funding for the Wasagamack project days before the helicopter crashed last week.

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Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, staff met with staff from Indian Affairs of Canada on April 16, when this project was discussed, a lot of detail of the project was discussed, and we were very shocked to find that the next day a letter was signed by somebody in INAC saying that the project was deferred. Any deferral of that project was not discussed at the meeting the day before, and at this point in time, we are trying to clarify whether the letter that we saw a copy of last week that arrived to us is in fact what they mean.

I will let the member know as soon as we get clarification from Mary Blais as to whether they really do plan to defer the project. We were shocked that they would send the letter the day after we met to carry on proceedings towards getting on with this year's investments.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, another issue that is stalling the completion of the airstrip, which is much needed not only in the community that I mentioned but indeed throughout northern Manitoba and other communities, is the resolution of the land transfer that the government claims is the reason why this project has been stalled.

I would like to ask the minister as to how he is going to tell the chief and council of Wasagamack and how they are going to resolve this matter and give assurance to the people of Wasagamack in northern Manitoba that indeed their concerns are being addressed by this government.

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, to my knowledge, the dispute over land transfer issues is between the band and the federal government. Again, we will be asking the federal government how they are going to clarify it forthwith so we can get on with the project we all want to see happen.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, I would also like to ask some questions of the Minister of Highways and Transportation.

Since, according to the minister and his officials, the engineering design has not even started for the Wasagamack airport, could the minister explain why year after year he has been using this project as an excuse for doing nothing for the rest of the northern airports?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Well, Madam Speaker, I am disappointed the member would take that position, because we maintain some 22 airports in northern Manitoba. We spend $4.5 million on airports in northern Manitoba in operating them 100 percent year after year. We respond as best we can to the emergencies that unfold.

But clearly, in improving these airports we must have a federal partner. It is critically important that we do, and in the case of Wasagamack, we have negotiated a 70-30 agreement with them and we want to see follow-up and action on that agreement. Our money is on the table.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, if the Wasagamack project is not going to occur for at least a year or two, how long will it take the minister to commit to construction at Little Grand Rapids?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, the member is posing a hypothetical situation. We have indicated at Wasagamack our money is on the table. We are trying to clarify what the federal position is, which seems to be a complete reversal between April 16 and April 17.

We have a task force involving several members of the government of Manitoba, federal government, aircraft operators and First Nations individuals dealing with trying to determine what the increased safety activities are that are needed for the northern airports so we can have a list to get on with them. There have been two meetings held to date. A third one is scheduled with the idea of coming forward with the recommendations that we want to see action on.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my final supplementary: has the minister agreed to hold an emergency meeting of the northern airports task force, and if so, will he make a public commitment to release how much additional funding of northern airports his government will fund in the current fiscal year?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, there is no need for an emergency meeting because two were held, one in February, one in March, and the next one is scheduled. Various pieces of information are being generated for discussion at the third meeting which will be held in due course. I expect all members of that task force to be present at the next meeting to review the information being generated so decisions can happen.

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Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Finance. The candidates in the provincial by-election in Charleswood were asked to respond to a questionnaire as to where the parties stand on certain issues. Could the minister indicate to this House if this government's position is to allow communities to decide if they want to ban VLTs?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, we have been asked a similar question by other members of this House recently, and as we have indicated, the independent Gaming Control Commission is looking at the entire matter of referendums. They are obviously having various reviews of information available in terms of other jurisdictions, discussions with other affected groups, and we are expecting a recommendation from the independent Gaming Commission in the near future.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice. In reference to the same questionnaire, can the minister indicate to this House if the idea of new urban sports camps is a policy of this government?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, the question relates to the urban sports camp. Of course this government has been very supportive of the urban sports camp. Indeed, I understand representatives of the B.C. NDP government were here looking at that particular success. We are committed to that project, and we are committed to additional urban sports camps.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): When can we expect to see them in place?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, very, very shortly. I expect--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Toews: You know, Madam Speaker, if I say today that I signed a letter in fact authorizing that urban sports camp, then they will accuse us of interfering in this by-election. I have in fact signed that letter, and so I expect the announcement to be imminent. So there it is.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Earlier this year the federal Health minister with his provincial counterparts reached a deal excluding tainted blood hepatitis C victims infected before January 1, 1986, from compensation. Tomorrow in the House of Commons a vote to extend coverage to all tainted blood hepatitis C victims will take place. To the shame of Liberals everywhere, Madam Speaker, the Whip is on and the PM is making this a confidence vote rather than a conscience vote.

I would like to ask our Minister of Health if he will put compassion before cold-hearted legal wrangling and deal making and offer a made-in-Manitoba compensation package across the board for all hepatitis C victims infected through the blood system.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, what I find very interesting about the vote taking place in Ottawa yesterday is it confirms--

An Honourable Member: Tomorrow.

Mr. Praznik: Or tomorrow, pardon me, the vote taking place tomorrow in the House of Commons--is that it confirms exactly what I have been saying, that the national government who bears the lion's share of responsibility in this particular matter, who has avoided providing any share of the health costs to the provinces, is very firm in only providing a compensation plan for that particular group of people based on the potential negligence or responsibility of the system.

The fact that the Prime Minister of the country put the Whips on in this vote confirms again that the federal government was only prepared to put that amount of financial resources to make that plan happen. I know there was a lot of speculation about the role of Manitoba, but this latest action confirms federal intention from the beginning. I look forward to the next supplementary to discuss this further.

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I want to ask the minister once again if he will show some leadership, lead the way back to the table and if he will offer a made-in-Manitoba compensation package for all victims of hepatitis C regardless of the date at which they acquired the virus.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, the member for Osborne and I, along with the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) and several other members of this House, had an opportunity several weeks ago to discuss this whole area in great detail in Estimates. It was one of probably the better discussions I have been a part of because there are a lot of principles involved here. One, of course, is: does our medical system provide compensation for those who suffer some harm from the normal risk taking involved in that system where there is no negligence. If we are to get beyond the principle of compensating only where there is a negligence on the part of the system, we would take it into areas that could in fact be unaffordable for the Canadian health care system. I was part, on behalf of this administration, with the original arrangement, and unless the federal government is prepared to come with a significant amount of money to take us beyond that principle, we certainly are with the original arrangement. We discussed that in the debate in Estimates a few weeks ago.

Ms. McGifford: I want to ask the minister to listen to Manitobans like Susan Wish, whose husband is dying and who has written to all of us, and I quote from her: I beg each MLA to put pressure on our Health minister. I pray that together we can finally do the right thing. I would like to table her letter for the minister.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the letter and the comments. It is certainly a difficult issue, as we discussed some weeks ago, but again, if we are to build into our Canadian health care system the principle that any ill or harm that comes in the normal taking of risk in the use of that system, if we are to provide compensation above what we already do--because let us not for a moment believe there is nothing there. We provide free health care. We have other methods of income replacement like the Canada Pension disability pension. I am not saying those are adequate, but this is really the top-up to that, and if we are going to provide that top-up, then we have to be prepared to provide it to everyone else who may suffer some intended outcome in the course of taking risk in treatment.

Ministers of Health right across the country could not recommend to their respective cabinets that we go down that path. If the federal government would like to and want to fund it with new dollars to the system and not take it out of existing transfers, that might be their decision and their course, but we do not have the resources to get into that level of insurance.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, to the Minister of Justice. One can go from being an MLA today to a security guard on the front lines of public safety tomorrow, yet with no training whatsoever. But now this government, after fumbling around for a couple of years, has decided not to bring in even basic minimum standards, not even CPR or self-defence, for example, for these peace officers, contrary to the demand of the industry and common sense.

My question to the minister is: with these private police often facing the same threats as our public officers, how can the minister explain this irresponsible and dangerous decision in this the most violent province in Canada?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I take issue with the comments of the member for St. Johns. Certainly his classification of Manitoba is incorrect. If he wants us to stop prosecuting domestic violence, which puts our rates way up, I disagree with him. We will continue to prosecute domestic violence and ensure that spouses and those types of situations receive the benefit of the law, as opposed to when his government was in power when they put abused spouses in jail when they refused to testify. If that is the kind of justice system he wants, I will have no part of that.

Mr. Mackintosh: I wonder if the minister would get serious with this serious question, recognize of course that we have the most violent province in Canada in every year since 1993. Why is he abandoning our safety for this government's blind ideology of hands off the private sector? It is ideology of an unregulated therefore untrained private sector insofar as security guards.

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Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, I understand that he is advocating on behalf of private industry to provide the training to the private sector, and I support private industry supplying that service to the private investigators and security guard companies. In fact, many companies have done that, if not all, provide their workers with an appropriate level of training.

Now I might indicate, if there are issues in specific situations, because the security guard industry is so varied that one cannot impose standards of the type that he envisages, if there are particular situations where there are concerns, we do have a very effective remedy and that is Workplace Safety and Health. I am sure that the Workplace Safety and Health Division would look at any specific complaints where the safety of these guards is in any way compromised and ensure that an appropriate remedy is put into place. I know we have done that in the area of retail stores, small convenience stores. The same kind of an issue was raised, and Workplace Safety and Health responded very well.

Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister please listen to people, whether it is Mr. Justice Oppal from B.C., whether it is the security industry in Manitoba, the security guards, the unions, the security companies in Manitoba, the training institutions, would he listen to them and listen to their plea for at least minimum standards to protect the safety of Manitobans and the guards and stop putting his ideology and the ideology of this government ahead of public safety?

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, perhaps the member is not familiar with The Private Investigators and Security Guards Act, which does in fact regulate the conduct of security guards to ensure that their conduct is appropriate.

In respect of the issue of workplace safety and health, as I have indicated, there is a very clear remedy for any specific workplace where these issues might be a concern. I know that senior staff in my department have reviewed these recommendations very, very carefully, and they have concluded for a variety of reasons that a uniform regulation right across the board simply is not workable and is not appropriate. So I would say rather than creating another regulatory scheme, let us use the regulations that are already available to address exactly the need that the member for St. Johns is trying to address.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, last week I asked the Minister of Education to consider the relationship between the minimum wage and student fees and the serious deterioration that has happened in this province over the 10 years of her government.

Today I would like to ask the minister to explain to the House why she finds it acceptable that a student in Manitoba must find 19 weeks of work at the minimum wage to finance their program, whereas a student in British Columbia, for the same program, the same student, needs to find 11 weeks of work at the minimum wage.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I want to indicate a couple of things. First of all, I had indicated I would check through the department, which I do not yet have back, the correctness of her figures before I came back with a response, but I can tell you, Madam Speaker, that students in Manitoba are much more readily able to find a job. We have a tremendously good youth employment record here in Manitoba. We have amongst the best in terms of the number of students able to find employment to help them through school, and in testimony to that, I can indicate that students in Manitoba have an unusually low number of students having to borrow. We have fewer students needing to take out student loans, for example, because they are able to find work and work their way through college, instead of having to borrow. Those are very good records, and the record of youth employment and job creation that is here is directly attributed, in many respects, to the work of this government in ensuring that kind of economy.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, could the Minister of Education confirm that far from having the development of a fee policy as a priority, that in fact her post-secondary education council in the past year has spent precisely 10 minutes on the issue of developing a fee policy, according to the information received under freedom of information?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, no, I will not confirm that because that is not correct.

As the member knows, we set in place a tuition fee policy to be developed. An initial policy was put together by the interim transition committee composed of several people who are now on the council, along with students. That policy was referred to the council when it was formed a little under a year ago, and the council is now embarking upon a massive consultation, as they are obliged by law to do with the field. The member will recall that she herself was one who insisted that they must consult with students on anything affecting them. We put that in the law, and that will take time. That will take place over the summer, and a recommendation should be coming to me sometime in the fall after the compulsory consultation has taken place.

I can assure the member that much more discussion than 10 minutes has taken place on this topic.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, could the minister tell us then where in this massive consultation that she is prepared to allow the citizens of Manitoba to have some input and some comment on a policy which is now already three years late?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, as the member well knows because she was part of the committee at second and third readings where we were evolving the Council on Post-Secondary Education, the matter of consultation will be decided by the council. The member remembers those consultations. The member remembers those because that was something that she wanted very much, that the council have the ability, that indeed they have the mandate and the obligation to consult with the public, including certain key people, and they were specified. They must consult with students on matters affecting students, and they can consult with others as well. They have done a very good job, I believe, in consulting with boards of governors, with other stakeholders, and that is all according to the rules.

The member speaks about a tuition fee policy that is three years late. Madam Speaker, three years ago we embarked upon the principle of a student fee policy which should have been in place many, many years ago, including during the period of time when her government was in power and student fees per capita were harder on students then than they are now. They did nothing. We are doing something.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, in 1995 the Desjardins report recommended community votes on VLTs. Since then, town councils have written to the government. There have been numerous petitions submitted to the government. There has been a recent poll of rural Manitobans who have indicated the majority of them would like the right to vote, and now the Conservative candidate in the upcoming by-election is calling on the government.

I ask the Minister responsible for the Gaming Control Commission if he supports the rights of Manitobans and that, to have a right to vote on VLTs.

Hon. Mike Radcliffe (Minister responsible for The Gaming Control Act): I would like to thank my honourable colleague for the question today. I can advise my honourable colleague and this Chamber and the people of Manitoba that in fact the independent Gaming Commission that had been recommended and set up by this government as a result of the Desjardins report--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister, to complete his response.

Mr. Radcliffe: Thank you, Madam Speaker. This government does not look so facetiously on the issue of gaming and the impact as members opposite who tend to discount it with the ribaldry that is bouncing off the benches in this Chamber right now. This matter is being considered by the Gaming Commission at this point in time. It is a complex issue. There are many facets to it, and it is not something that we would embark upon quickly or unadvisedly. When this matter has been completely thought through, a thoughtful and thorough document will be presented for consideration by the people of Manitoba.

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Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Madam Speaker, on March 27 of this year, the Minister of Health and, by copy, all MLAs in the Legislature received a letter from the Compassionate Friends, an international nonprofit voluntary self-help organization offering understanding, friendship, grief education and hope to families experiencing their worst nightmare, the death of a child. This letter refers to a letter from Don Orchard, Minister of Health, who wrote in 1992 that the Mental Health division was in the process of developing criteria for funding for all self-help groups. I would like to ask the Minister of Health what the status is of that six-year-old criteria development.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I would be delighted to discuss this area in greater detail with the member in Estimates debate that we will be in this afternoon. We will be able at that time to give the member a full account of the status of that situation as well as the resources that we may or may not have available for various self-help organizations. So I would invite her to our portion of the committee for that discussion.

Ms. Barrett: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health why it has taken six years, since 1992, for the Mental Health division of the Department of Health to come up with, if in fact they have come up with, funding criteria for self-help groups. Why has it been six years?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I do know that in the course of the last six years, under my two predecessors, a great deal of effort and resources were put into the whole area in Mental Health in bringing services to the community. Why, just on Friday in the good city of Brandon we opened a new facility worth $3.8 million as part of that. We have under construction similar facilities today across the province. The specifics on this particular request I would be delighted to discuss with the member in Estimates.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.