4th-36th Vol. 35-Oral Questions

Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon twenty-six Grade 11 students from Teulon Collegiate under the direction of Mr. Al Reinsch. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon). Last September we asked the First Minister and members of the Conservative side to meet with flood victims in the Red River Valley. In November I wrote the government expressing my concern about the lack of policies and predictability for people in the Ste. Agathe area, their dike situation and the expropriation of their land. I have since received a copy of a psychosocial assessment of the residents that are directly impacted by government policy and the flood of 1997. Regrettably, this report concludes that after the traumatic impact of the '97 flood, victims are still entrenched with anger, resentment and hopelessness.

I would like to ask the Premier today: will he meet directly with the Ste. Agathe flood victims, and will he meet directly today with the people who are facing expropriation without any predictability?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, this is directly related to the question the Leader of the Opposition asked yesterday. As I indicated yesterday, the Minister of Government Services (Mr. Pitura) and I met with this particular group just last week and we were apprised of, in fact were given the report that the member just referred to. We assured the group that were represented at the table that we were proceeding as quickly as was humanly possible to bring some finality to their situation.

They are undoubtedly caught in a situation where they are not going to be likely located within the ring dike. The ring-dike agreement between the municipality and the province is very close to being signed. There have been public meetings that indicate where the ring dike will be located, and I certainly hope the Leader of the Opposition is not in some way implying that we do not have considerable empathy for these people who are caught in this particular situation. We have in fact sent the Land Value Appraisal Commission out to make sure that their property values are established clearly, and we will bring finality to this very shortly.

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, Doris and Ed Koczera have written a letter that I am sure the minister is aware of--of course this letter comes five months after I wrote the government and eight months after I directly invited the Premier (Mr. Filmon) to attend meetings--and stated: we have been passed around from one department to another. The emotional cost keeps rising as we get passed from one department to another. This is dated April 16. Our children do not know where they are going to school next year and are very concerned about it. We still live in uncertainty.

I would like to ask the Premier: when his government took the correct steps and the leadership to build the Brunkild dike in a very short period of time, he took the leadership to do that. It was the right decision. Why cannot we one year after the flood take the same kind of leadership and the same kind of integrity for these flood victims in the Ste. Agathe area and have this resolved?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): There is one thing that--the member opposite can accuse this government of all sorts of things, but I hope they do not attempt to accuse us of a lack of integrity in dealing with this issue. Frankly, we are on the verge of having an agreement between the municipality, the provincial government and the federal government. When that agreement is signed, finality will be brought to the location of the dike, but there have been public meetings that have clearly given the community the opportunity to have input. The community has to agree and decide among itself the size of the dike and the location as they receive advice from the various engineers and other people that we provide for support in making this decision.

Certainly no one argues that the folks who are sitting just on the edge of the dike are caught in a position of uncertainty, but remember that any flood-proofing program that has occurred previously in this government or in this province was generally about a five-year program. This government has brought the flood proofing and the reaction to the flood forward, so within one year of the flood we have an enormous amount of work, and that credit goes to the valley.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Yesterday, I asked the minister, without having a copy of this report, to put the position of the government in writing. Today, in reviewing the report prepared by Mr. MacKenzie, a copy of which the minister has already said he has, the report also goes on to conclude that if you could speak to anybody in authority to ask for any commitments, what would you ask for. They said: just give us a commitment in writing so that we can begin to rebuild our lives.

Now surely--and I had asked this question of the Premier--one year after the traumatic impact of this flood, the government should be able to provide predictability in writing so that the people directly impacted by expropriations can begin to rebuild their lives, as we would all want as fellow Manitobans, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, you know, we always have the great difficulty with the opposition, because on the one hand, if we make a decision without consulting or without including the federal government, the local municipal government and the community, they would criticize us for being dictatorial and for going ahead in a headstrong way to develop something without going through all the proper process.

As the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Cummings) said, in following the previous major flood in 1979 in the valley in which a lot of flood proofing was done, it took five years to get to this stage, and that was when New Democrats were in office for three of those five years.

This year we are attempting to do it in a much shorter time frame. We have had consultations with all of the people involved, including local individuals, the local community. There are many, many decisions and many sign-offs that have to take place before this kind of thing can go forward. The only way we could have done it otherwise would have been to make a decision without perhaps all the information and certainly without consultation, and in all likelihood it would have been a very highly criticized decision.

The Leader of the Opposition cannot have it both ways. He cannot just simply get up and carp and complain day after day after day in a mindless fashion the way he does, and that is exactly what he does every day in an irresponsible fashion in this House.

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Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Health likened himself to a bear in a trap as an excuse for not attending a public health care forum, and whether the minister was a bear or a chicken, we now see a new twist when in fact the minister yesterday accused the CBC and the Free Press of hand-picking the forum. I would like to table a copy of the ad that was in the Free Press, which only says it was a forum on To Our Health, and also read from a transcript of the promotion from the CBC which said: it is time to start the dialogue to our health.

I would like the minister to now perhaps admit that the real reason that he did not attend the forum was not because he had another engagement, was not because it was a hand-picked forum, but in fact they are afraid to face the people of Manitoba when it comes to their disastrous health care policies.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I think the Premier (Mr. Filmon) got it very right about New Democrats, how they never get anything right on their side of the House. My reference yesterday was not to being a bear in a trap but a bear who had escaped the trap and who watched the hunters now saying, well, why did that bear not come down this path. This is where we put the trap and, my goodness, we do not like it that there might actually be somebody who does not fall into the mode that we created.

I think the Premier referenced to me here that there was admission about picking a certain percentage of the audience. I know, even in talking with some of the reporters, it is hard for some of them to keep a straight face even when we discussed it.

Madam Speaker, I think the thing has spoken for itself.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, I would like to table an ad for another forum, this on the capital regions, of which the Urban Affairs minister (Mr. Reimer) apparently does not consider himself a bear in a trap. He is going to be at the forum.

I would like to ask again if the Minister of Health will admit the only reason he did not show up or the Premier (Mr. Filmon) did not show up was because it was about health care, and they cannot publicly defend their health care policies in this province.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, every day that this Legislature sits I am here to defend the policies of this government. Every day that we have Estimates debate, I am there defending and discussing the issues of health care I believe in a very meaningful way. Many of the member's colleagues have been in that committee discussing issues of importance to them, and we have had very meaningful discussion. As well, there are many, many public-speaking engagements and forums that I participate in. I have been in televised forums; I have been in forums with the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) a year or so ago. I will continue to do so. But what is very evident today from the question is the members opposite are not here to ask questions about health care but about this other issue, and it is just silly.

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Mr. Ashton: As a final supplementary, Madam Speaker, I am wondering if the minister who said he appeared in a public forum a year ago will understand that the people of Manitoba want this minister to be out there talking to real people about the real crisis in our health care system. I would like to ask again whether the minister will confirm that it was not anything to do with the forum and who organized it and how it was organized; the simple fact is this minister is afraid to go out and face real people about health care in this province.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I really am concerned about the hearing of the honourable member for Thompson, because he again takes things that are said and drops a word here or there to give a different meaning. I said that I attended a forum with the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) a year ago. I have been in many forums since. In fact, I recall being in a public meeting that was very controversial and heated in Deloraine with some 400 people. We dealt with the issues. Deloraine is very, very happy today with the work that has happened with this government. I have been in many, many public forums and meetings and debates over the last year, and I will continue to be in my political career.

It appears to me that this is the New Democrats again trying to make an issue when, quite frankly, none really exists.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, I rise on an issue that is very important to the people of my constituency and to people across the province, and that is what is happening to the elk industry in this province.

Yesterday in the House Mr. Enns said that they are "continuing investigation" and "that investigation is being pursued vigorously." He goes on to say that officials are investigating the situation with Pat Houde. However, Mr. Houde indicated yesterday that he is under the impression that the investigation is over, and no charges are being laid against him.

Will the minister tell us who is right? Is there an investigation or is there not an investigation?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, to the honourable member for Swan River, there is an investigation going on.

Ms. Wowchuk: I would like to ask the minister why this government is hesitating to lay charges when government staff say that elk have been leaving this province without permission from the director of the Animal branch. Why are you hesitating? He has been breaking the law. Why are you hesitating to lay charges?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, let us understand that this is a new program that is being introduced. I am satisfied that the full measures of the regulations are being carried out. There have been one or two instances that I am aware of--and were readily cleared up whereby an animal was transferred from the Assiniboine Park--because there is surplus to Assiniboine Park--to in fact the Cottonwood, the game farm where the government has the elk farm compound. The necessary paperwork was not completely in order but was quickly remedied. The animal was appropriately tagged according to the registration. So that issue, yes, technically an animal was moved that did not comply totally with the regulations but was within a day or two fully complied with. I am aware of one other such circumstance where animals moved, again, from Assiniboine Park to a registered elk farm here in Manitoba where, because of the newness of the regulations, the proponents had not fully carried out the letter and the intent of the law but were quickly and readily complied with.

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Ms. Wowchuk: Well, I guess we see why the name Uncle Harry applies.

I would like to ask the minister: what steps are being taken to investigate the three shipments of elk that were shipped out to Saskatchewan, not from the Assiniboine Park, but shipped to Saskatchewan without the proper documentation from the Animal Industry Branch? What steps are being taken to investigate that particular incident, and are charges going to be laid on that?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, I do not expect and I suspect neither does anybody else, neither do any other members in this House expect the Minister of Justice (Mr. Toews), for instance, to broadcast to the world what kinds of investigations or at what stage they are taking place. These are investigations where, if we can detect and determine noncompliance with the regulations, they will be charged, and that is all I can tell the honourable member.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, yesterday the CIBC told us that it was withdrawing from the Student Loan Program in Manitoba. Under freedom of information, some time ago I received a copy of the contract between CIBC and the government of Manitoba, and that contract says that notice to terminate the three-year agreement must be given by October 2, 1997. I would like to ask the minister to tell the House whether she knew in October and concealed this from Manitobans or whether the contract has been broken.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the contract with CIBC was a three-year contract which was up some months ago, and during the period of time from then till now we had granted an extension to CIBC to continue negotiations to see if in fact there was a desire to renew that contract. There, in the end, turned out to be no such agreement available, and CIBC is now in the process of withdrawing since the contract was up many months ago, and we appreciated and they have appreciated the extension of time that was granted. They are now withdrawing--going into a transition period to move everything over to the Royal Bank, which came on stream, as the member knows, about a year ago. There was nothing covered up. I believe people were aware that there were negotiations underway, and the conclusion of those was never satisfactorily achieved on renewal of a contract.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, with a supplementary question.

Ms. Friesen: Would the minister who, when I raised the issue of the withdrawal of CIBC from Nova Scotia in the House in June '97, said that we were not experiencing the types of problems here in Manitoba that Nova Scotia has experienced--could she tell us what has changed in Manitoba that is leading the CIBC to withdraw from student loans here?

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, the member is quite correct in that at the time that she asked the question we were still under contract with CIBC, and there were no problems that had been identified to us of the nature that had led them to withdraw from Nova Scotia. Indeed, as the contract concluded, then there was a period of time where an extension was asked for to see if we could negotiate a new contract with CIBC. That contract, as I indicated, was not renewed, and the Royal Bank had in the meantime--well, actually prior to that--indicated its interest in submitting a proposal which was accepted by the government of Manitoba, leaving Saskatchewan, our neighbours next door, Manitoba and Nova Scotia having one sole supplier, that being the Royal Bank. CIBC, the member is quite correct, pulled out of Nova Scotia initially and then, subsequent to her questioning of me last year, did not renegotiate. The Bank of Nova Scotia is out of those types of agreements.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, could the minister confirm that what did in fact happen, and indeed was predictable, was that when Manitoba in 1993 eliminated bursaries, ended the loan remission program for all but a few students, debt levels did begin to rise and there are now some few students, few still--but with extremely high debts, $35,000 to $40,000? This is what concerns CIBC; it is what concerns Manitobans. Why does it not concern the minister?

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Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): No, Madam Speaker, I will not confirm that because, as the member knows, Manitoba, in the first place--the majority of students in Manitoba owe far less than the average across the nation. There will be some exceptions, to be sure, and she mentions the exceptions rather than the rule. That is fair if she wishes to do that, but it is important for the record to note that the majority of students in Manitoba do not carry the high debt loads that are average across the nation. As well, we have pumped more money now into making it possible for students not to have to borrow as much. We had hoped that CIBC would give time for our new measures for interest relief and debt remission and our new scholarships and bursaries and the Learning Tax Credit and all of those things we put in place to make it possible for students to have better debt management on their repayment of loans and to have more money up front so that they do not need to borrow as much. We had hoped they might wish to stay around to see how that would flesh out as the Royal Bank is quite willing to do. Unfortunately, that did not occur.

My question to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs is: in the province we have very healthy credit unions. Is the province looking at what we might be able to do to ensure that that health continues to prosper in the province of Manitoba, and is there something that the government of Manitoba can be doing to give more strength to our credit unions?

Hon. Mike Radcliffe (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my honourable colleague for that question. It gives me the opportunity to tell my colleagues in this Chamber and, through them, the people of Manitoba that in fact we do have a very healthy credit union system in Manitoba and a very healthy caisse populaire system as well. This had been enhanced and facilitated by virtue of the support that the government of Manitoba had given to the guarantee system of their central debt in years gone by, which now, because they have turned the corner--they are no longer needed--the guarantee has been removed.

I can tell my honourable colleague opposite that in fact there is still constant vigilance of the credit union system, and we are in frequent communication with them on the issues which concern them. We see a very real opportunity for the credit unions to infill in various aspects of Manitoba to support the people of Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Inkster, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, the question to the same minister is: would he acknowledge that other provinces recognize the importance of the credit union in providing competition and providing jobs and so forth, that there is a responsibility for this government to look at what it can be doing in terms of ensuring that there is a very prosperous future, given what is happening with our five major banks?

Mr. Radcliffe: Madam Speaker, one of my colleagues here has just mentioned a fact, which I think is probably the best support that our government can give to the credit union system in Manitoba, which is a viable economy, a balanced budget, and putting the people of Manitoba back to work so that there are savings and so that there are opportunities for business which can be facilitated and funnelled through the credit union system.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, I am wondering if the minister can indicate to the House if in fact he has been in contact at all with our credit unions, if they are looking at any alternatives whatsoever that might be there for the government to be assisting. In particular, does the government itself have a position on the bank mergers and have they explained that position to the federal government?

Hon. Mike Radcliffe (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Madam Speaker, I can advise my honourable colleagues in this Chamber that in fact I had the opportunity just about two weeks ago to be at the annual general meeting of the Credit Union Central, and I was able to bring greetings to this assembly. I was in communication with the members of that organization. I receive briefings from these individuals on a regular basis, and I have been in contact with a number of individual leaders of independent credit unions who are looking at and assessing opportunities across northern Manitoba, southern Manitoba and advising me of their decisions on this matter.

So I would advise my honourable colleague that in fact we are keeping abreast of these issues and concerns.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, to the Minister of Natural Resources. First Nations communities of Hollow Water, Sagkeeng, Little Black River and Brokenhead have formed the Turtle Island Protection Group to ensure that First Nations communities on the east side of Lake Winnipeg have a say before decisions are made concerning the granting of Pine Falls Paper Company's two-year forestry plan.

Will this minister put on hold any talks regarding Tembec's two-year forestry plan and meet with the Turtle Island Protection Group to ensure that concerns of these First Nations communities are addressed?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): I will be glad to meet with them, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Struthers: Madam Speaker, will the minister also meet with the chiefs and band councillors from Norway House, Berens River, Poplar River, Little Grand Rapids, Pauingassi, Bloodvein, Seymourville and Manigotagan to address their concerns with this two-year plan as well?

Mr. Cummings: Yes.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, will the minister meet before Friday with these groups--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Dauphin, with a final supplementary question.

Mr. Struthers: Will the minister meet before this deal is a fait accompli, and will he provide for the bands a written explanation outlining how treaty rights will be protected in this agreement with the company?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, we have always respected treaty rights, and we have a good working relationship generally in respect of the lands that have been set aside for future claims. That has always been a consideration. I will be glad to try and bring some comfort to those communities that feel that there needs to be some additional consideration.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Health. Last month, on the 26th of March, I asked the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and he took under notice some questions I had concerning the Churchill Health Authority. I trust that the Minister of Health can now respond to some of those questions that I had. I would like to ask the minister to tell the House what his position is in regard to the chair of the health centre at Churchill and whether he is now prepared to make any changes, given the local controversy there, the loss of services and some questionable contracts being given out at the centre at Churchill.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Just to put the member's question into context, I was approached by staff of the New Democratic Party about this particular issue, and I asked both the member for Rupertsland, in whose constituency this RHA is situated, along with my legislative assistant, Mr. Tweed, to go to Churchill--pardon me, the member for Turtle Mountain, Mr. Tweed--to investigate this issue and try to sort it out and we thought having a united front, those involved, because there are a host of issues, a great number of personalities involved in this. We think some of that may have been resolved. As the member knows, the position of--the current CEO, I understand, has left and they are recruiting another CEO, and there are still some issues to be resolved. I have not yet made a decision on that, but I look for advice from both him and the member for Turtle Mountain.

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Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, I do look forward to ongoing dialogue with the member for Turtle Mountain. One of the things that the member for Turtle Mountain and I did agree to back in December when we were given this task of trying to find some resolution was the release of financial reports so that Churchill residents can see for themselves what is going on exactly with respect to their money at the Churchill Health Centre. I would like to give an example: over $98,000 was spent on new letterhead for the centre, and I would like to ask the minister what he is prepared to do about that.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, part of the discussions that did result from the work of both he and the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), I understand that the audits are now being completed on where that board has made its choices. I know on this particular issue, when that issue did arise the board indicated that they would have revenue offsets to that. Whether or not they are able to achieve that will be part of the kinds of conclusions that I will have to draw as minister in considering reappointments of members.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): As I pointed out, Madam Speaker, last month when I asked the Premier (Mr. Filmon) some of these things, I raised some issues regarding the loss of key personnel and positions at the health centre. I would like to ask the minister now if he is willing to act to ensure that the centre does not lose the ability to maintain its 25-year history in being a regional health centre.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Just to put that question in context, because we have debated Churchill in this House before. Madam Speaker, the only reason that the Churchill Regional Health Authority was created, given the relatively small size of that authority, was as an economic development tool for the community of Churchill, because that particular facility supplies health care services into the Northwest Territories and across the North, so Churchill petitioned the former minister to create that authority to work on the economic development side.

Now the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) had significant criticisms of that initiative and the efforts of that board to try to gain other support and broaden their base within their board. There are some very legitimate criticisms of that board that have come from the member for Rupertsland and my colleague from Turtle Mountain in their investigation. I can assure the House that it is a matter I will review, and one of the options of course is, if relatively small communities cannot work together to achieve their goals, perhaps they should be just moved into the Burntwood regional health district, and that is certainly a possibility.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Yesterday the Minister of Health advised the House that, and I quote him, "many of those remote nursing stations that the member references are not within provincial jurisdiction."

Madam Speaker, MARN advised us today that any nurse who practises in Manitoba, whether it is on a remote nursing station or at St. Boniface Hospital, must be licensed by MARN. My question to the Minister of Health is: if 92 percent of those nurses are identifying three areas of neglect, where does that put the government and MARN and the College of Physicians and Surgeons, for that matter? Who monitors what?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, again for the member for The Pas, professional organizations have the responsibility to govern and regulate the professional ability of their members, so any particular nurse who is not living up to their professional responsibilities, they have the power to discipline, including the power to dismiss.

Now the general operation of a facility and its ability to meet standards of care in providing for their patients or those who access that facility are the responsibility of its owners or the jurisdiction that governs that facility. In the case of nursing stations operated by Health and Welfare Canada, they are outside of our jurisdiction. So some of those facilities, although the staff, their professional licensing is with provincial bodies, the responsibility for the standards in their operation rests with their owners and the jurisdiction they are in, which in many of those cases is federal.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): I would like to ask the Minister of Health, in view of the report that came out two days ago saying that 92 percent of northern nurses found three areas of neglect, why he proceeded to make those massive cuts against the advice of many northerners, services--[interjection]

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for The Pas, to pose his question, please.

Mr. Lathlin: Why were those services cut in The Pas, Flin Flon and Thompson, where the majority of the aboriginal people in the area are referred, too, by the nurses working in the nursing stations?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, if what the member is referencing is the staffing guidelines for facilities which was conducted some years ago when the member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae) was Minister of Health, if what I remember of that process is correct, physicians, nurses, administrators were involved in establishing those guidelines to have uniform guidelines across the province. I know of one facility in particular and some others whose guidelines went up because in the old ad hoc method of staffing we did not have equality between facilities, so the guidelines were developed with professionals to ensure that there was uniform application across the province. Some facilities had more before and were brought down to the guidelines; others moved up. It was to ensure fairness across the province.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, I believe that it is fairly clear from the report of the 5,000 nurses and what the member for The Pas is referring to that no one on that side of the House is monitoring the situation that has been as a result of their cutbacks for the past few years, and that is why the nurses are talking about such a difficult situation.

My question to the minister is: since the minister yesterday said he ordered the USSC to do something and he orders the health board to do various things, will the minister just do one thing for the people of Manitoba, for the nurses and the patients of Manitoba? Will he order the WHA and his regional health authorities to guarantee--will he order them to hire more nurses to occupy our acute care hospitals and our personal care homes so that we do not have the kinds of reports like we had delivered on Monday?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I would remind the other honourable member that reports such as those have gone back well into 15 years ago when his party was in power, and I only say that every time the health care system is asked, it is always in crisis and it is always in difficulty no matter who is in power.

In discussing this issue in Estimates and in my answer yesterday, we indicated that there are areas where staffing certainly has to be looked at and addressed. That may not always mean nurses because, for example--[interjection] Well, the member proposes we just authorize hiring more nurses without knowing where we are putting them, where they are needed, how do they fit into the system. The nursing profession is changing to the four-year program from the two. We have a process going on now with the purchasers of that service, the regional health authorities and the professional bodies and the MNU, looking exactly on what kind of relationship, staffing requirements, those issues we will need.

I have put all those parties together, and we want to do this in an appropriate fashion, not in an ad hoc method as the member proposes.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.

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