Madam Speaker: To resume adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the honourable member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck) and on the proposed amendment thereto of the official Leader of the Opposition, standing in the name of the honourable member for Brandon East who has 26 minutes remaining.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I want to carry on from where I left off yesterday talking about the economy and the factors affecting the Manitoba economy and reflecting on the fact that we are not an economic island to ourselves, that we live in the Canadian economy, that we live in a North American economy. Indeed, we live in a global economy which does affect what happens in Manitoba most directly, more than we sometimes appreciate. When you look at the amount of exportation that goes on for Manitoba, whether it be agriculture or mining or whatever, you appreciate that world markets do have a direct impact on the level of production, the level of demand for our output. So I said a lot of nice things yesterday about the Minister of Industry (Mr. Downey) and his department and his efforts with Maple Leaf Foods and the fantastically large new plant that is going to be going into Brandon and the good news from that. Today I would like to put that aside.

Let us talk about some of the realities of the Manitoba economy and some realities of our debt situation and some of the realities about the real wage levels that are affecting our workers in this province. I would like to begin by observing an article, statements made by the Premier (Mr. Filmon) yesterday and quoted in today's Winnipeg Free Press, about elements of the Manitoba economy, because there are some misimpressions, I believe, that the Premier is giving to the people of Manitoba. One in particular I would like to refer to is the statement that the Premier made that we are starting to pay back our share to Ottawa, and he was referring to the fact that we pay back millions of dollars in employment insurance contributions to Ottawa. In fact, in the article I think he makes a reference to $300 million being transferred to Ottawa under the EI, the employment insurance fund. In other words, that is on a net basis after we take into consideration all the payments made to unemployed Manitoba workers from the fund and then compare it with all the payments made to the fund by Manitoba workers.

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The fact is, Madam Speaker, and this is very important, this has been the case ever since that fund was set up. So let us not pretend or tell the people or mislead the people by saying we are starting to pay back our share. I recall when I was minister of employment services noting that we were paying hundreds of millions of dollars to Ottawa for unemployment insurance or employment insurance that we were getting back. So this is not a new phenomenon. It has been with us for years.

As a matter of fact, ever since the labour force survey was established, Manitoba, along with the other two Prairie Provinces, has enjoyed among either the first, second or third place in low levels of unemployment. We have either had the lowest level, the second lowest or third lowest level of unemployment, and that is true perhaps without exception. There was perhaps one year where Ontario got to be third. But the fact that we have low unemployment rates translates into Manitoba workers paying more into the fund than we are getting out, and the Premier observes this as though this were something that has just started and as a result of his regime. Well, that is not the case. I repeat, it has been going on ever since that fund was established.

Also, I note, Madam Speaker, in his statement yesterday that we have some of the lowest personal income tax rates. He says we have not raised any major tax rates for 10 straight budgets. In fact, he refers then to the lowering of the personal income tax rate. Well, I recall as a member of the House back in '88 and 1990 when we had a minority government that this government did indeed reduce personal income tax rates, and we in the opposition voted for it. We supported that. We were not opposed to that. We supported that.

I believe one of the reasons that prompted a cut in taxes at that time was that the Premier and the government knew, because it was in a minority position, it had to go to the people within a year or two, which it did indeed in 1990, and what a way to go by saying, look, we have cut some income taxes, even though we were going to be facing some very, very serious deficits, which brings me to my next point, and that is that there is reference to us being fiscally responsible and living within our means, spending smarter and increasing efficiencies.

But, Madam Speaker, if you look at the budget document over the last decade or so, which covers a period of time of this government, you will find that the bottom line has not always been that great. To suggest, as it is suggested in the Premier's statement, that somehow or other the government has taken us out of a serious debt situation, magically and positively and consistently over the years, is simply not true, because the fact is--now I am going to say right at the beginning, our debt situation has improved in spite of the impression being given by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), that it is such a terrific problem that that has to be the No. 1 priority for any surplus, but over the years we have had some very, very serious deficits.

As a matter of fact, the biggest deficit in our history was realized in the fiscal year 1992-93. I am simply quoting out of the last budget document, the 1997 budget document. In that year the bottom line, budgetary deficit, was $566 million, but that was after the Minister of Finance took $200 million out of his Fiscal Stabilization Fund, but that Fiscal Stabilization Fund, that $200 million, he really got back in 1987-88 thereabouts, courtesy of a surplus that was left by the previous NDP government, plus some additional federal transfers.

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair

I recall, back in that time, when the then minister, Mr. Clayton Manness, took $200 million out of revenue to therefore show a small deficit rather than showing a surplus, which he could have shown as soon as he--in their very first budget they took the $200 million out, set up this Stabilization Fund.

The Auditor at the time criticized the government and said this was not good bookkeeping; this was misleading the people of Manitoba and misleading everyone when you have done that, but they have this Fiscal Stabilization Fund and they put money in and out, and it becomes a shell game. You take it out when it suits your purpose; you put some money into it when it suits your purpose. In 1992-93, it suited the government's purpose to take $200 million out of the fund and put it into the statement, and therefore instead of showing $576 million deficit, which would have been the true deficit, they brought it down to $566.

That figure, and the press appreciated this and reported on it, this was the biggest deficit that the people of Manitoba have ever experienced. The biggest, the largest deficit in our history. Far larger than anything that was experienced under the previous NDP government. We have had many other years of serious deficits, '93-94. I will not quote all these figures here. There is a large amount. There are hundreds of millions of dollars worth of deficits.

So much so that indeed the per capita debt in Manitoba has grown, has gone up from 1988-89--and again I am just quoting out of the last budget document--of $4,752 per person. That was the debt per person. Today, under this government, it has grown by about a thousand dollars. It is now $5,735. That is the net general purpose debt. That is the one that is often referred to, because this is excluding in effect the utilities, which are self-sustaining or not as important in considering our debt situation.

At any rate, so there has been an increase in the debt. There has been an increase in the debt burden. On the other hand, if you want to look at it in terms of what our economy is doing and what our total spending situation is, indeed the burden has been reduced, and I refer to some figures here. If we relate it to the GDP, it has now fallen somewhat from 24.8 percent of the GDP, which was in 1988-89, down to 23.6 percent in 1997-98. That is based on the budget document and some updated estimates based on the preliminary financial report for the year ended March 31, 1997. So when you relate it to the total economy, the debt burden is somewhat lower.

The total net debt fell from about 50.0 percent to 45.4 percent. At any rate, when you compare it, however, with the total spending on public debt to total spending, public debt costs, that is the interest on the debt, declined slightly since 1988-89. They were 10.4 percent according to the budget document. The most recent estimates show it down slightly, but this document shows it exactly the same, 10.4 percent. In other words, there has been no change from the beginning of this government's period in office until today. At least according to this document, there has been no change. The burden has remained the same, roughly 10 percent. Slightly more than 10 percent of the total spending goes to interest on the debt.

An Honourable Member: But they want us to believe it is a lot higher.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Yes. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), however, is going around the province holding his consultations with the public of Manitoba and getting across the message that we have got such a serious debt problem that indeed this has to be the No. 1 priority. With any additional surplus he may have, we must and should pay down the debt. Well, before I go further, I want to point out of course that the reason he has been able to show some black ink in his statements recently is because of the massive cuts that have occurred in real dollars, the cuts that have occurred to major areas of responsibility.

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In the case of health care, again, just--I was able to have a document comparing '92 to '97. In real dollars, that is when you squeeze the inflation out, there has been a decline in health care spending in this province of 9 percent; 1992 compared to 1997, the most current estimate we have, there has been a real decline in spending on health care, 9 percent. If you look at social services, there has been a decline to even a greater extent. It has been a decline of 12 percent, spending 12 percent less on social services today than we did in 1992. If you look at education, there too there has been a serious decline of 9.4 percent in total spending on our education budget. In other words, what we have seen is a Minister of Finance who is going around the province bragging how great his books look, how he has moved to these surpluses, but he does not discuss the fact that this has been done on the backs of school teachers, students, on the backs of the ill, the sick, the people who depend on our health care system and on the backs of the poorest of the poor, people who depend on welfare and whose welfare rates have been cut, taking money from those who least can afford to have any of their income reduced from the very meagre level that it already is.

So that is the reality. We have got this on the backs of the people of Manitoba. You can look at other examples. What about Pharmacare? We have got black figures because we have transferred this burden of paying drugs in a very massive way, in a serious way, to the people of Manitoba to the extent that there are, I am convinced, thousands of people in Manitoba today who are more reluctant to take the medication that they should be taking, as prescribed by their doctors, because of the cost involved. There is a group in there, low middle income people in particular who have to pay more for Pharmacare, for their drugs now, who have to make some serious decisions, and this is a backward step. If anything, drugs should be as free as possible because the utilization--and I am talking about prescription drugs, Mr. Deputy Speaker--the use of medication is a preventative measure.

I recall being at a major announcement in Brandon with Ayerst, and we were talking-- this gentleman from a pharmaceutical company from Montreal--about the whole question of using medication and so on--of course, he is with the industry, but I agreed with him. Medication used properly as prescribed by the doctor does reduce health care costs. It keeps people out of hospitals. It keeps people out of nursing homes. It extends lives. It enables people to live a better quality of life assuming it is the proper drugs, of course, and assuming the doctors diagnose properly and that they are using these prescriptions properly. So it is sad. So there again we have transferred that cost.

What about nursing homes? The nursing home rates have gone to the moon, and there has been a very serious transfer of cost to people who can ill afford to pay this additional amount for nursing homes. Couples where the one partner may be in the home, the other is still living in their own house, and they are having an extremely difficult time making ends meet because they have to pay out all this additional money for nursing home rates.

An Honourable Member: Twenty thousand dollars and something.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Twenty thousand dollars. Thousands of dollars. As a matter of fact, I have said this in this House before, people on basic Old Age Pensions have been forced to pay so much that they can qualify for welfare. I have written in the past to people in my riding, have told them to look into it, have their family members look into it, and would you not know that there were actually some people who qualified for welfare because the government took so much money from them for nursing homes. Some of them are Conservatives too, I might add. One of them anyway was. At any rate, I am saying that is where we get our black figures from because we have reduced in real dollars health care spending, social services spending, education spending. We have transferred costs.

Unfortunately, and this is really sad, and I know the Minister of Industry (Mr. Downey), I am sure, would agree with me, it was really a sad day when Don Orchard, the Minister of Health at that time, got up and said we are eliminating the child's dental program. It was rural; it was a great program. It was delivered cost efficiently through schools, dentists and dental nurses working together, and it was great. It was low cost, and it has a payoff in the future, because what it does, I mean, it reduces dental costs, dental repairs that would have to occur when the young people became adults. So those are some reasons.

I also want to make the observation that when the minister goes around, as he has, consulting with people I would suggest that he gets a biased crowd there, generally speaking. Yes, it is open to the public, but I know there are some people that tend to come that are a little more willing to agree with the minister and his message that any surplus available should go as a top priority to paying down the debt. I could not help but observe that the same day that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) was in Brandon with a group of approximately 75 people, I guess it was at the Victoria Inn, at any rate this paper, the Brandon Sun, had the story that we have heard before that debt is a major problem according to Stefanson, and most of the people there sort of agree that this should be the No. 1 priority: we should use our money to pay down the debt as opposed to cutting taxes or as opposed to beefing up spending on health care or education or whatever.

The very same night, and this was purely coincidental, the Brandon School Division had arranged for a public seminar, a public forum, to discuss what should happen to the Brandon School Board budget. What should they do in the year ahead? Because as these officials, the school board people, will tell you in Brandon they have had a very difficult time. They have been squeezed. They have had to cut. They have had to lay off teachers. They have had to increase sizes of classes. They have not had the equipment that they have needed, et cetera. What are they to do? They do not want to raise municipal taxes if they can help it, and yet in reality they have had less monies from the province.

If you look at it in terms of actual purchasing power, again in 1988 from all the documents that we have, you can see that per student or per pupil there has been a loss of roughly $350 per student in real terms available to the students, to the pupils in Manitoba in the public education system. When you go to the school divisions, you go to the schools, you talk to the people, the trustees, the officials, the teachers, you really see what is happening, and it is serious. It is undermining our public education system.

But the forum, the point I was making, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is that that forum and headlines in the paper, the people there wanted the government to spend more money on education, not to take any surplus money and pay down the debt, which was the message that came out of the ministers' forum. So here you have--and, incidentally, they had 75 people to approximately the same number of people, and I said it was just purely coincidental that these meetings were held on the same evening. You get these two stories, I mean, so who are we to believe? Are we really to believe the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) who says, well, really the people of Manitoba want him to use this money to pay down the debt, or do we believe the public forum held by the school board where people came, including people from the Chamber of Commerce, incidentally, the mayor and so on. They were there. They were quoted in the paper, but the general thrust was that we need more money for the education system. We have to support our education system.

Having said all these things, I want to make another observation, and that is, the concern about the debt is not a monopoly of the other side. Somehow we are sort of painted as though we are the people that like to get into debt and want the debt to get bigger and bigger. That is not the case. That is not the case, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As a matter of fact, you know, for people who think that you equate social democracy with higher debts, this is just nonsense. The essence of social democratic philosophy or democratic socialism, whatever you want to call it, is to work towards a more equitable distribution of the wealth among the people in the community, among the people in our society, a more equitable distribution of income and not to be living in a lot of debt. As a matter of fact, the CCF-NDP governments in Saskatchewan had a record of being very, very frugal, and it was the Devine Conservative government that got the Saskatchewan debt, Saskatchewan budget into the shape it became.

The difference here--and when you say the reverse happened here I want to tell you in the Schreyer government, and I have to go back and look at the figures, I believe we had a lower debt burden at the end of our Schreyer years in government than we had at the beginning, a few percent. But in the Pawley years, where the debt arose, not in Manitoba alone but across the country in '82-83--[interjection] No, '82-83 we had a recession, and when you have a recession--if you had a serious recession next year, you will quickly find yourself in a deficit whether you like it or not. What happened also, the interest rates were up to the moon, 18 to 19 percent interest rates, I mean, all that combined. Also, what the Pawley government tried to do in '82 and '83 was try to stimulate the economy to create more jobs. In fact, we--[interjection] Well, we were the first out of the recession at that time. Towards the end of the period we tried to correct that, which we did, to increase revenues to pay off that, and we were doing that. You were the recipient, you were the beneficiary of that in 1988-89. That is a fact, and that is why Clayton Manness could come here and take $200 million. He could have had a surplus, but he took $10 million and put it in the fund.[interjection] I do not know. What was that again?

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I said a lot of nice things yesterday about the Minister of Industry (Mr. Downey). He was not here to see it, but he can read it. I just want to get that point across that our concern about paying down the debt is not necessarily, is not a monopoly, is not of the right. In fact, Tommy Douglas made many a speech about the need to not--[interjection] Two minutes? Is that all? Oh, God.

At any rate, my time is gone and I did not realize where the time has gone. I just wanted to state that in a relative sense our debt situation is not bad, and it was not bad when these people took office. When this government took office we were among the low in terms of--among the lowest, certainly not above average in terms of interest of our total spending paid towards the debt. I note now in '96-97 we are second lowest in the country, tied with Alberta. That is the amount of interest as a percentage of total spending paid on the debt. So in a relative sense we are fine. So I really think that the Minister of Finance is going around the country more or less misleading people and saying this is the priority, this is the way we have got to go, rather than facing the reality and facing the facts that our debt situation is not that bad and that we have got some very serious social problems, very serious problems of undermining our education system, very serious problems in the quality of health care.

I wish I had more time because I could go into this in more detail, but I see my light is blinking and the Deputy Speaker is smiling at me, so I think I shall conclude with those few remarks and perhaps have an opportunity to discuss these matters again on some other occasion.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am indeed honoured to have the opportunity to rise in the House today to speak on behalf of the constituents of Sturgeon Creek, and I have had this opportunity in the past and I am honoured once again to be able to speak about our government's past accomplishments, our current initiatives and our vision for the future of Manitoba. Before I came back to this Chamber, I was looking forward to the opportunity of participating in this throne speech, and let me just preface my remarks by saying that with the manoeuvring and the things that have been going on in this Chamber since we came back, since the throne speech was delivered by His Honour, we have seen everything but the debate on the throne speech with regard to the opposition members who have come in here with obviously another agenda.

You know, prior to the throne speech being delivered, I had the opportunity to travel a little bit throughout the area and attend different functions and business conferences, and it was really exciting to see what was happening here in Manitoba. But the opposition members across the way have come in here with an agenda because they seem to have difficulty dealing with the issues, the real issues of creating a great economy in the province of Manitoba.

When we hear the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) attempting to take credit for all the good will and the economic things that are happening here in the province of Manitoba, that is the biggest farce that I can see and the biggest disservice that he is offering to his constituents in Brandon East. The honourable member for Brandon East should be ashamed of himself to be able to stand in his place and just deliver these remarks. The honourable member should know better after being here for the number of years that he has been here.

But let me not diverge on this aspect of it, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because I think what is important here is what is happening here in Manitoba, and they obviously have not come into this throne speech--at limited time. I have had to make changes with another colleague in order to be able to make this address because I feel it is important for me as the member for Sturgeon Creek. I have very limited time as an upper bencher to be able to give my remarks and the opposition members over there standing on points of privileges and all those things over the last week, and the honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), I mean he is part of that. I mean he stands in the back of the Chamber here with a big grin on his face, and he has had to apologize for the things that he has brought to this Chamber.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the opposition is a poor excuse for an opposition. The people here in Manitoba are realizing that. They talk about--and they stand on the matter of privilege in this Chamber with regard to putting out the lights.

I do not think any one of them have their lights turned on over there. They have not had their lights turned on, so how can we be looking at turning out the lights, putting out the lights on the honourable members across the way? I am ashamed as a member, I am truly ashamed as a member in this Chamber, to be in the same class and putting ourselves in the same class as what these members have done in terms of what has been going on in addressing the ills and the confrontations that they have been imposing on the Speaker.

This is something that they have brought in and they came in with an agenda, and it is obvious that they did not come in with the agenda on debating the throne speech. I have come here this morning to take the high road on this, but when I hear the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) stand in his place and put remarks on, and maybe he feels that if he thinks this long enough it will come true.

But I think the people in Manitoba are smarter than the honourable member for Brandon East. If he thinks that he is going to be able to convince the people of Manitoba that he is partly responsible for the good wealth and the prosperity in this province under the leadership of Howard Pawley and Premier Schreyer, that is a real joke.

I do have to apologize for my somewhat aggressive approach to this, making this throne speech, but I just could not deal with this after the remarks from the honourable member for Brandon East.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, getting back to where I thought I was going to begin. I would like to welcome everybody back to this Chamber, to be able to sincerely debate the throne speech because as I said at the beginning, I was really looking forward to what was happening in this province, because I work considerably long hours and put in a lot of time in talking to the people, in the business community especially, and the seniors in Sturgeon Creek to have an understanding of what was happening in the province of Manitoba.

There is a lot of good will out there. There is a lot of good understanding and comfort in spite of what the honourable members across the way say, but when I began this morning, what I wanted to do was not only to welcome all honourable members back to this Chamber but to welcome our new member, the newest member, the honourable member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou) to this Chamber. I do wish him well. I hope that he will have an opportunity to participate and learn as many of us have here since we have been here, and certainly since I have been here since 1990.

I also wanted welcome the pages, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I think that this is a real learning experience for them. I think that there is an opportunity that is offered to very few people in this province, students in this province of Manitoba, just like it is very rare for us as members. There are very few people. We are among the privileged to be able to represent so many people in this growing and prosperous province that we live in.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I trust that the members of this House have been able to return to their constituencies and to be able to talk to the people that they represent because that is the real important issue here. I am real proud of the association that I have in Sturgeon Creek with a fine association, the Sturgeon Creek Constituency Association, a group of directors and executive members who work.

They are the eyes and ears of the constituency, and they enable me to represent with their help the people of Sturgeon Creek the way they should be represented. I hope that the people of Sturgeon Creek recognize their efforts and also appreciate what we are doing, because it is not only what I am doing as the MLA. I believe that we as members of this Chamber, because of the amount of time that we have to spend on those areas, do not have the same opportunities to be able to go out and talk to the people as often as we should and want to.

The throne speech of this government outlines a vision for the future, and Manitoba's future looks very bright. It is one that is growing in economic prosperity that will provide and protect Manitobans' essential services of health, education, and support the families of the most vulnerable. Fiscal management is the underlying theme of our economic strategy because responsible taxation and public spending are essential for economic growth and job creation. I think that is something that we as a province have been very fortunate to be able to achieve, the level of success that we have been able to achieve. I hope that my small part that I play in Sturgeon Creek in working with the businesses that I too will be able to make my contribution along with many of my colleagues on this side of the House who are working in the same direction.

The opportunities that we have been able to support and to be there for the business community and to work along with them hand in hand and be aware of what direction they are, I think it is most important that we do not go out there and take the responsibility of doing the things that they are capable of doing for themselves, but help them to create the environment to enable them to succeed. I support those businesses that are taking the risks that they are taking and the economic benefits that they are contributing to the framework that our government has established and has been a catalyst for our provincial economy.

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As the legislative assistant to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism, it has always been a pleasure for me to discuss the economic growth and the bright future of our great province and the rewards of our economic stewardship are numerous. Manitoba's merchandise exports to the United States rose by 15 percent this year making the sixth consecutive year of double-digit growth in exports to the United States, and this year also marked the sixth consecutive year of growth in private investment. Private investment in any area of the economy is what makes the wheels turn. These are the people who are taking the risks, these are the people who are creating the opportunities for jobs. All we have to do is to go out there as members of this Chamber to encourage them and to support them in the efforts that they are putting forward.

These strong economic indicators have had a positive effect on Manitoba's job creation, and Manitoba leads the nation in job growth with more than 13,000 new jobs created this year alone. Astoundingly almost all this job growth has been in the private sector and most of these jobs are full-time jobs. This has driven Manitoba's unemployment rate to its lowest point in 16 years, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Quite an accomplishment for a province that just a few short years ago went through one of the worst recessions that this province has experienced. This has driven Manitoba--the full-time jobs that have been created have driven Manitoba's unemployment rate to its lowest point, and it is because of this that November marked the eighth consecutive month that Manitoba's unemployment rate has been below 7 percent. The Conference Board of Canada has referred to Manitoba's strong job creation and has predicted that our economy will create approximately 23,000 jobs over a two-year period between 1997 and 1998. The throne speech has already said that there are more Manitobans working today than in any previous year in Manitoba's history, thanks to an economy managed by our prudent fiscal management. This is a record of which I and our government are not only proud, but we should be very proud, and we should be telling other people. The opposition members tend to take us on another agenda. Our policy is strong fiscal management, and targeted tax cuts have been successful in creating jobs.

Madam Speaker in the Chair

At an open house and a ribbon-cutting ceremony yesterday, Madam Speaker, National Healthcare Manufacturing Corporation opened its new state-of-the-art robotic assembly line, and National Healthcare has provided tremendous economic and employment benefits to the constituency of Sturgeon Creek and to the province, and I am confident that that growth will continue. I am confident that it will continue because of the commitment to the people, the management and staff at National Healthcare and the support that I get from my colleagues, and I want to thank the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey) and the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik), the honourable member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck) and the honourable member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan) for being there and participating in this ribbon-cutting ceremony. It meant a lot to the members of the staff and management at National Healthcare, and I think that those are things that we must continue to do.

National Healthcare's facility manufactures prepackaged medical and surgical trays for use in hospitals, long-term care facilities and dental offices in North America, and this venture serves as an excellent example of how governments can work with local entrepreneurs to create jobs and use technology to expand businesses, making them more competitive in the global economy. I sincerely congratulate the staff of National Healthcare for their continued efforts that help make Manitoba strong.

Many people are not aware of the number of large businesses that operate in the Sturgeon Creek constituency. Besides National Healthcare, many other companies play an important role in the provincial economy. Companies such as Boeing and MacDon Industries, among others, play an important role in our provincial economy, Madam Speaker. The employment opportunities they create are usually high-technology, high-paying jobs that offer skilled and talented workers a chance to work and raise their families in Manitoba. Sturgeon Creek is also the home to the Canadian Forces base in Winnipeg, a major national defence air force base, and I was proud to take part a few short years ago to ensure that the long-term viability of this base would stay in Winnipeg. This government supported me in that task that I had to take responsibility for because of the federal government's decisions to make some changes with bases across the country, and I want to thank again because the people at the Forces base in Winnipeg have come to me many times, and I convey that without the support of my colleagues in government, that success would not have been achieved, so I thank all my honourable members and colleagues in the government for that--to be reminded of the efforts that they put forward in supporting me in that mission.

Employers such as National Healthcare, MacDon Industries, Boeing, the Department of National Defence are needed to create a solid employment base for Manitoba. Just in the Sturgeon Creek, the Murray Park and around the base--when we consider the number of employers, the job opportunities that these few companies offer, it is astronomical. It is encouraging to witness the growth that these industries in Sturgeon Creek are doing and the fiscal impact that they have on the province. Just this fall the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey) and myself, along with our Premier (Mr. Filmon), participated in the expansion of another company.

Winpak Limited is located in Sturgeon Creek whose expansion is creating economic benefits for Manitobans and investing in this expansion $33.8 million to create 81 more new jobs, boosting the company's workforce to almost 400 employees. This expansion will ensure that the Winnipeg plant continues to be Winpak's main manufacturing operation in North America, and as I said to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism, there still are additional opportunities at Winpak as far as further expansions in the years, and we have to position ourselves and work with this company, along with the federal government, to ensure that this further expansion can take place here in Manitoba rather than somewhere else in the world.

Madam Speaker, our government will continue to seek out new economic initiatives for our province, and as such we will continue to support Winpak in their initiatives.

The other initiative that is really gaining lots of momentum in something that I think we all relish to achieve is the concept of Winnport, which is the result of a recognition by both the private and public sectors that an opportunity exists to develop Winnipeg into a major transportation and multimodal distribution centre. Winnport would be a major economic boost for the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba, and Winnipeg being well-placed strategically to capitalize on the need to transport goods quickly and efficiently between North America and markets in Asia and Europe. Winnport would be a transportation and distribution centre for the future where providers of air, road and rail transportation, warehousing and related services would be located, along with manufacturing and distribution centres in a foreign trade zone. Winnport has the potential to provide significant economic opportunities for Manitoba in Manitoba, and it is estimated that if Winnport were to become a reality, 500 jobs would be created immediately in the province and 6,000 more jobs would be created in the long term. Winnport is also expected to generate $595 million in revenues and $105 million in civic, provincial and federal taxes. Our government supports the Winnport initiative for these economic benefits that would be provided to Manitoba. While I continue recounting the success stories of large businesses in the province of Manitoba, I would like to say a few words about the small businesses that are present and operating in Sturgeon Creek.

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Small businesses employing fewer than 50 people are a powerful economic engine in this province. An article in the Winnipeg Sun this year indicated that small businesses provide 34 percent of the total employment in our province creating nearly 50,000 new jobs over the last decade. In salary alone, small businesses contribute $272 million to the provincial economy.

Madam Speaker, I recently attended the Manitoba Mining and Minerals Convention, and I was sincerely impressed with the level of enthusiasm the mining industry has about the future of mining in the province of Manitoba. Our government is committed to supporting this thriving industry, so that it continues to grow in the future and the long-term future of this province. By streamlining the legislation regulations and procedures, our government has built a stable and attractive investment environment for mining in this province.

The mining industry has not always been as prosperous as it is today. I think if we look back in history, it has taken more than a decade to erase the effects of the NDP's mismanagement in the mining sector. I bring you back to 1975, when the NDP government under Howard Pawley, which the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) is so proud of, and wants to bring back these times as being good times.

Under Howard Pawley, put in place a program that allowed the NDP government to enter into a mandatory partnership with mining companies. The honourable members across the way-- I mean, it is really funny to see what humours these members over there. They are short visioned with their lights out and nobody home. [interjection] The honourable member says we keep punching their lights out. Like I said earlier, I do not think they have had their lights turned on, so how could we put their lights out?

Madam Speaker, the effect of this program was to discourage future mining exploration in Manitoba. However, a P.C. government under Premier Sterling Lyon rescinded that program in 1981, if we remember, and the slow process of rebuilding the mining industry in the province of Manitoba started to begin. Our government has worked with the industry to resurrect the mining sector to its present state. We have worked to encourage entrepreneurship and have strengthened the protection and security of property rights, particularly as it relates to mining exploration and operations and we will continue on this path.

Our government is aware that mining is the second largest primary industry in Manitoba, next to agriculture. Mining is growing by leaps and bounds. Mining contributes more than $1 billion to the province of Manitoba economy annually and provides approximately 4,300 direct jobs, plus another 12,000 to 15,000 indirect jobs. It is an integral part of the economic and social life for many communities, especially in northern Manitoba. Our government wants to support an industry that is so important to so many Manitobans and their families. By working with members of the industry, Manitoba has gone from the highest combined income and mining rates to one of the lowest in Canada for the new mine developments, thanks to initiatives such as the 7 percent investment tax credit, an improved processing of allowance deductions. We also phased out the PST on electricity used in mining manufacturing and exploration.

The mining sector has responded enthusiastically to the opportunities available in Manitoba. In 1996, exploration expenditures were up $40 million, an increase of nearly 25 percent over the previous year. New frontiers await development in Manitoba, and there are companies ready to enter this growing industry in this province, Madam Speaker, companies such as Gossan Resources which is exploring Manitoba's Interlake region; ProAm Explorations which is examining opportunities in the area between Selkirk and Winnipeg; and Falconbridge, a company based in the Sturgeon Creek constituency, that is exploring for additional nickel deposits in the North along with Inco and other exploration companies.

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Most Canadian provinces talk about supporting their mining industry, but our government does more than talk. It makes miners and explorers feel wanted in this province, Madam Speaker. I think in order to experience that, one would only have had to attend the recent mining convention that was held a few short weeks ago which I had the opportunity to attend along with the Minister of Mines (Mr. Newman) for the Province of Manitoba.

In addition to the mining economy in this province, the agriculture sector is another part of the economy that has performed well over the year, over the last few years as a matter of fact. The Winnipeg Free Press, as an example, reported that Manitoba farmers posted the second highest net income ever in 1996 and are poised for another banner year in 1997. I really wish our farmers well. They are certainly deserving of any wealth that comes their way, and I am sure that, Madam Speaker, the commitment that this government has in working with the farming community will assist them in achieving their goals. Our government will continue to work with the farmers to encourage them to diversify their operations while we search for additional value-added initiatives that will allow Manitoba farmers to achieve consistently high results year after year. However, we will ensure through regulation that management of livestock waste does not harm our environment.

Madam Speaker, Tuesday's announcement by Maple Leaf meats that it will invest $112 million to build a world-class pork processing plant in Brandon is another indication of how well the agricultural sector is performing in our province. When construction of this plant is completed in 1999, almost 1,200 people will be employed at this facility, and there is a strong possibility that an additional 1,000 people, a total of 2,200 employees will be employed by Maple Leaf meats in Brandon. Why did Maple Leaf meats decide to develop a processing facility in Brandon, you may ask? Part of the answer can be found in the fact that the area has the cheapest food cost for livestock in the region. Another reason relates to an increase in hog production by Manitoba farmers, and some credit has to go to the City of Brandon which does not have a business tax, making it a desirable location for any employer. Other factors include our government's persistence in developing a north-south trade corridor from Churchill to Mexico City and our commitment to developing the Winnport initiative, which I have already spoken of. This initiative makes Manitoba an attractive place to invest, but most of all, what really made the difference was the Minister of Agriculture's (Mr. Enns) position on establishing dual marketing in the province of Manitoba for hogs.

The honourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) says hogwash. I do not understand how this honourable member can represent a constituency that has an economy supported by many, many farmers, and I dare say many hog producers. The honourable member I think should go back and talk to his constituents because obviously he has lost touch with his constituents.

You know, Michael McCain, I think, said that best in talking about--and it is not this government that is saying that, it is Michael McCain, the CEO and president of Maple Leaf-- establishing dual marketing, we would not have had those 1,200 and 2,200 jobs in Brandon. So the people of Manitoba cannot think what the opposition were advocating but what this government, the role that this government played in establishing this dual marketing.

Manitoba's access to foreign markets and our government's continued efforts to develop trading relationships makes this province an attractive location for business that provides jobs for Manitobans. Manitobans' growing exports have made a strong contribution to the provincial economy with international exports doubling over the last five years. This is why our government will continue to capitalize on our economic growth by participating in a Team Canada trade mission to Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Chile in January 1998. The throne speech stated that our provincial debt is beginning to be repaid, and Manitobans are starting to receive the rewards of our government's balanced budgets.

I want to say, Madam Speaker, that I had the opportunity to attend some of those forums that the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) took around this province, which the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) criticized. Obviously he has not been talking to his people in Brandon East to get an understanding of that.

Madam Speaker, I see my time is running short. I did want to address another initiative that has caused the people of Sturgeon Creek and that is in the health care aspect with regard to the Grace Hospital.

Madam Speaker, one of the things in the last session we talked about and the honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), the Health critic, criticized and the member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) criticized was our position in terms of the obstetrics decision that was made at the Grace Hospital. Although the member for St. James is in a position within her catchment area and is affected, and the people there are affected by the decisions that are made at the Grace Hospital, they made no contribution in terms of what the long-term economic viability of the operation of the Grace Hospital.

I can tell you, the staff, the nurses, the obstetricians, the administration at the Grace Hospital have to be commended for the decision and what they were standing for, because although this decision was probably one of the hardest decisions that I have had to deal with over the seven-plus years that I have been in government, I do want to take this opportunity to thank the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik) for working with me and the administration and the staff at the Grace Hospital in coming to a very favourable resolve. Because it is the hip replacements and the knee replacement operations that are going to benefit the constituents of Sturgeon Creek far more because I have to remind you that Sturgeon Creek has the highest population of seniors in the entire province. It is those people who are going to benefit by those 184 additional operations that the Department of Health and the Grace Hospital are going to be able to participate in. That is going to ensure the Grace Hospital the opportunity to deal with the deficits and not be taken down the road that the honourable members across the way are advocating.

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I do want to thank you for this opportunity to put these words on the record and I will have an opportunity at another time to complete my remarks. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure for me to stand and rise once again to speak to yet another throne speech. I do approach this one somewhat different than I have in the past as many have observed from within the Chamber that our party seems to be in a state of unknown currently. Over the weekend we are hoping to see a little bit more clarity brought to it.

But having said that, for my constituents who are in fact my first priority are the people in which I will articulate no matter what happens, in terms of what is in their best interests. I would offer that assurance to each and every one of my constituents.

I wanted to welcome the members back to the Chamber, in particular extend a welcome to the new member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou); to our pages, in particular Melody, who is actually a constituent of mine, lives in the area of Meadows West which is a wonderful area of Inkster; but to extend also a welcome to our new assistant clerk and a hearty welcome to all those who have come back.

Madam Speaker, I wanted to pay tribute to those Manitobans who put in so much effort in terms of the crisis of the year, that being the flood of the century, and the high sense of co-operation that was seen from all political parties, from all Manitobans. It makes me feel good about being a Manitoban when I see people working together as much as we did during that particular crisis. As I indicated earlier when I first stood, what I was hoping to be able to do by standing today actually is just to put a few words on the record with the idea on Monday of being able to articulate on exactly what I will be doing with respect to the throne speech.

There are a number of concerns that I have with respect to the government. There are a number of concerns that I have with respect to the official opposition and the role which they play inside the Chamber.

There is also a great deal of concern that I have with respect to my own party, the party that I have dedicated so many years of my life to. Over the weekend, as I have indicated to my wife, that there will be a great deal of reflection, self-reflection, as to what it is that we feel is in the best interests of my constituents.

Madam Speaker, I have indicated in the past that I will be, as much as possible, dedicated to the Liberal Party because I do believe in Liberal philosophy. But equally I believe that there has to be a provincial Liberal Party that has the ability to be able to provide all Manitobans the opportunity to vote for in a legitimate way. I anxiously await to see how 207 selected people from within the province of Manitoba will vote tomorrow. In fact, I understand over 140 of those individuals have voted.

There are some concerns that I have in terms of the way in which it has been conducted. I resent the fact that people have not been able to have a list of those delegates that are able to vote. I resent the fact that provincial Liberals, past candidates, individuals that have sacrificed so much over the years, not being afforded the opportunity to review the leadership of our party. I am hoping that those 207 people that are eligible will recognize the importance of having a strong provincial party. On Monday it is my intention to indicate and to take action what is in the best interest of my constituents and all Manitobans.

Madam Speaker, on Monday as I reflect over the weekend with my constituents, with my wife, with my colleague from The Maples (Mr. Kowalski), with my colleague from St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) who have been both playing very supportive roles for me, I will then make some sort of a judgment in terms of how I can best represent my constituents between now and the next provincial election.

I see, Madam Speaker, it is now 12:30, and I will continue my debate on this important debate on Monday. Thank you.

Madam Speaker: When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member for Inkster will have 35 minutes remaining.

The hour being 12:30 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. Monday next.