Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, Manitobans, as a community, are very happy that their work and their efforts and the efforts of their governments and their public employees resulted in such a positive impact in terms of the flood and the potential devastation, but not all Manitobans are happy and not all Manitobans were free from the flood of 1997. In the past, I have asked this Premier some questions about the measures that were taken by the government and their impact on communities that were flooded. Specifically, I have asked on three or four occasions about the decisions the government had to make and their impact on the Ste. Agathe community.

Can the Premier please indicate what measures were taken with the Avonlea Road, and what impacts did those measures have on the flooding of Ste. Agathe?

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I will endeavour to find the answer to the question that the member has asked, but in response to his preamble, I will repeat that, other than the operational regime of the floodway, which the gate operations resulted in, according to the advice of the Water Resources engineers--an upstream increase above the floodway gates of no more than 6 inches of level impact, and that is the best advice that I have available--other than that, I know of no actions that would have been taken by government engineers or government employees that would have created a negative impact on other people as a result of their efforts to minimize the damage and the negative impacts of the flood.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, on April 28, according to citizens adjacent to the Avonlea Road, the road was cut. In fact, I have been given a picture, which I will provide to the Premier, of the Avonlea Road being cut. On the morning of the 29th, considerable water came from what people believed to be different directions into the community of Ste. Agathe.

People are very concerned. We had been raising questions last week on compensation. The Premier has been stating repeatedly that people choose to live in a certain area. The people also believe the government has made choices, too, the right choices in terms of the big picture but devastating choices, potentially, in terms of their own community of Ste. Agathe.

Would the Premier agree to review the cut in the Avonlea Road at Ste. Agathe and the cut in Road 305 and whether it had any impact at all, as people believe, in the community of Ste. Agathe, on the flooding that took place in the middle of the night in a very unexpected way in that community?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, as I have indicated before, firstly, the government does stand ready and has stood ready to do everything reasonable to assist, firstly, in minimizing the damage and protecting properties, including private properties and, ultimately, in ensuring that we bring whatever resources possible to the cleanup, restoration and all of those things with respect to the flood.

In making the comment with respect to some responsibility on the part of a choice that people make to live outside of the protective works, I make the point that the protective works have cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and we do create havens of protection for people throughout the Red River Valley, some eight communities that have ring dikes. We do, also, have the protective works that protect the city of Winnipeg, whether it is the floodway, whether it is the Portage diversion, the Shellmouth Dam or the primary diking system. We also have, because of the program of the early '80s, created individual protective works for many individual homes throughout the valley that chose to raise their levels to certain levels.

What I said was that, with all of these things, there will also be the provision of compensation up to 80 percent for restoration of damage and loss. I said along with that, it cannot be, I do not believe, 100 percent the responsibility of the taxpayer at large, that there should be some recognition of the choice of location on the part of individuals. I have not said they are responsible 100 percent. I have not said that it is 100 percent their choice. I said some small part of it, and that is what is in recognition of the fact that they pay no premiums and there is a 20 percent deductible on the compensation claims.

That aside, Madam Speaker, in response to the allegation as to whether or not a specific action caused the overtopping in Ste. Agathe, I said to him that there will be plenty of reviews that will be able to take a look at specific allegations, but I make the point that the flooding in Ste. Agathe occurred well before the peak flows and the peak levels were experienced. As days went by beyond the 28th of April, or whatever date it was that he quoted, there were several days, and, indeed, in that area I do not believe they reached the peak until three, four or five days later. So the flows that were coming in through the Red River Valley obviously were the issue and were the problem, but I will take his allegation and attempt to bring back the best possible technical advice that I can for him on the matter.

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Mr. Doer: These are questions that people in Ste. Agathe and adjacent to Ste. Agathe and farmers in Ste. Agathe are asking us to ask you on their behalf. We consider them legitimate questions. We have looked at the roads. We obviously do not have availability to all the people that the Premier has. We also know that the government had to make decisions for the greater good in terms of the flooding impact, but people feel there were other decisions that were made that affected their lives, their livelihood, their ability to get back on their feet in terms of individual decisions.

I would like to ask the Premier: How will the people of Ste. Agathe and adjacent communities be able to deal with these concerns of cut roads and their impact of flooding on their lives? How will we be able to deal with this? How will they be able to bring these concerns forward?

We heard yesterday about the drain blockages and the farmers in the Sanford area. We raised the issue today about the cut road at Avonlea and Road 305. How will we be able to deal with these legitimate questions that are being raised today in terms of the water that came from the west and flooded people in Ste. Agathe? How will we effectively deal with it, and what will be the policy of the government if indeed there was some cause and its impact on compensation policies of the government?

Mr. Filmon: You know, the point that the member makes is one that I think identifies all of the tremendous uncertainty that exists in this whole flooding. To say the water came from the west is not technically accurate. All that water came from the south, from the Red River Valley. In fact, 138,000 cubic feet a second crossed the border at the maximum point from the United States. The currents came from all directions. The currents that impacted negatively on Grande Pointe came from unexpected directions: east, west, north, south. In fact, the analogy that has been used by the engineers talks about the ice-cube-tray effect, that when you have all of this water and you have different factors, including all the roadways forming barriers, and all of a sudden a barrier is toppled and it flows from section to section.

We observed, one of the days that we were up looking at that particular area--and it might have been within a matter of days of some of these instances happening--that, within a space of 5 miles, we had the current in fact going in three different directions across roadways in that area just to the east of Ste. Agathe.

So all of these things are matters that can be looked at, but what is, I think, important to reinforce is that that was not water that was introduced from some other watershed because it came from the west. It was water that was coming down the Red River Valley. It was water that inevitably had to go through the valley, past all the communities, whether that be St. Jean Baptiste or whether that be Morris or Ste. Agathe or St. Adolphe. It had to go past those communities in order to get to its ultimate destination point just outside the floodway.

So those are matters that will be looked at. I can assure the member opposite that they will be looked at not only by our own staff, but externally we would expect that there will be a review with independents from the reconstituted Manitoba Water Commission. As well, the Emergency Management Organization will be conducting its review of all the actions that were taken, because, indeed, there were so many different departments and individuals involved. We want to attempt to, as best as possible, satisfy the opposition in their questions and criticisms and the individuals and communities who might have questions or criticisms of government action.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, a central bed registry was promised by Don Orchard in December 1990, by the Honourable Jim McCrae in June '93, May '94 and August '96, was committed to by the present minister in March '97, and now we hear a central bed registry, and we have heard it all before, is going to be set up for the city of Winnipeg.

Madam Speaker, aside from the administrative changes that have been recommended in at least six reports with respect to this matter, my question is: Does the minister not recognize that the fundamental issue here with respect to the waiting list is the lack of funding to specific programs? In fact, that was recognized when the government inserted $500,000 into the surgery programs and the MRIs and CAT scans prior to the last election when they recognized there was a problem. Does the minister not recognize that is, in fact, the problem today?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the member for Kildonan may have heard the same radio broadcast or news item this morning as I did about central registry. During the course of the last number of weeks, as we faced potential major shifts and moves of people throughout the system, as a practical matter, our facilities in Winnipeg came together to do just that, in fact, to accommodate with great success. We hope with the creation of the Winnipeg Hospital Authority--in fact, more than hope; that is part of their mandate under that new organizational structure--that they will be able to bring that kind of rational use of facilities and beds throughout our system. Then once that is done, I think it makes the case, from time to time if there are areas truly that require more resources in order to deliver the program, then we can determine that on a factual basis, on a city-wide basis. That, I think, is fundamental to achieving the kind of common goal that he and I share.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can the minister indicate to the citizens--and he alludes to it in his first answer--what services will be offered by the community hospitals, that is, Seven Oaks, Grace, Victoria and Concordia, insofar as there seems to be a move afoot to downgrade and cut services from those secondary centres away from the system? What assurances can the minister give to this House that those things and those services will not be cut and that will not happen?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I do not think anyone today, he nor I or any other member, could get up and say what services will be delivered where and from what facilities well out into the future.

Madam Speaker, obviously changes in technology, demographics, a host of things are going to have a system where services shift and change to meet need appropriately throughout the system. I do not think the member particularly disagrees with that. What I hear from the member is concern about a trend that is there and some of the discussions where we would see services that many would argue have a role in our community hospitals being consolidated into tertiary hospitals and teaching hospitals.

I know the previous minister and myself both share that same concern. Part of the mandate of that Winnipeg Hospital Authority in sorting these things out is to make sure that services are delivered appropriately. I do not think anyone would argue, for example, that all births in the city of Winnipeg have to take place in a teaching hospital. That does not make sense. So getting the right mix, the right numbers and the right location is part of that challenge for the Winnipeg Hospital Authority. I would hope over the next year that many of these issues that have been outstanding for some time will be resolved.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, is the minister saying, therefore, that all of the reports and all of the studies, the Bell-Wades, the Manning reports, literally hundreds of reports, hundreds of committees, the three ministers, the thousands of civil servants, the hours of Estimates we have done in this Chamber, all of that is now going to be put over to the unelected, not even legislatively sanctioned, Winnipeg hospital superboard that has been set up, that has been appointed by the government? Is the minister saying that he is delegating all of those roles and responsibilities and functions to those boards, and that the people of this Legislature and the people who are on the boards of the local hospitals will have no decision and no say in the process as it exists? Because that is what it certainly sounds like.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the member for Kildonan asks his question not in a void. Today the boards of the nine facilities in the city of Winnipeg are not elected boards; they make decisions as to what services they wish to offer in their facilities. They are not elected by the people, the taxpayers who ultimately pay the bill. The Ministry of Health serves as a co-ordinator, because we are the funders of each of those individual institutions, in trying to co-ordinate how those services are provided.

Madam Speaker, I think what the major change is with regionalization is the fact that one authority, in essence, will be working with those facilities in delivering programs. The Ministry of Health, which represents the taxpayer, is the trustee. We of this Legislature are the trustees of the taxpayer. Working through the ministry with that facility, we will be able, I think, with greater ease to make those kinds of decisions, rationalizing programs or directing programs or developing new programs in various sites that make sense.

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, even though we have a province that is plagued with poverty, this government has cut half a million dollars from the shelter allowance programs for low-income families and seniors. Now they have eliminated the 21 staff for these shelter allowance programs from the Department of Housing, transferring them to the Manitoba Housing Authority.

I want to ask the Minister of Housing: How could he make this change at this time, and why has he done this, given that they have had recommendations from their own Children and Youth Secretariat to promote these programs more, and, indeed, these programs are very essential to Manitoba?

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Madam Speaker, I have endeavoured to explain the shelter allowance program to the member a few times, not only here in the House but also in Estimates, where I have outlined the program and the policy and the fact that the program is developed and engineered by applications. As applications come in, if applications are eligible, they are approved. There is no cutback in the sense of the funding. The program is set up on a budgetary process where there is an estimate as to how many applications will come in. A budget is set on those projections. If the applications do not meet the amount that is projected, naturally the money is not spent.

The program has not changed. If it is over, we even add, because it is there for the eligibility of the program. Applications are made. If they are eligible, they are approved.

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, the minister did not answer the question. I want to ask him: Can he explain why they have transferred the 21 staff for the shelter allowance programs out of the Department of Housing and into the Manitoba Housing Authority? What is the long-term plan for this program?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, if there is not that much usage for the program in the amount of applications that are being processed and the usage for the program and if there are employees that can be utilized in other areas and the transfer of them to a different department, it would only be natural because of the fact that there is not that much work for them anymore because the applications, the processing--the evaluation has gone down because it is driven by applications. The applications go down; there is not as much money being allocated; there is not that much work involved with the program so people are being moved. That is all.

Ms. Cerilli: Will the Minister of Housing confirm that the real plan in his department is to transfer all of these programs into the Manitoba Housing Authority, turn it into a special operating agency, and essentially privatize and contract out the management for all these programs?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, it seems that any time there is any type of readjustment within any type of department in this government, the opposition looks at that big, bad boogeyman of privatization rearing its head.

I think what we are looking at is the best utilization of our manpower within our departments. We will look at adjusting. We will look at the best utilization of the talents we have in our department, and if there is usage for other people to move within our departments, we are certainly going to encourage that. We look at our department as an asset and a valuable asset in the management of the Housing portfolio. If there is an adjustment, and they want to move to different areas or we can utilize them in different areas, I think that is a tremendous advantage for the talent that we have within our department.

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Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources, whose government is absolutely determined to make our parks inaccessible to Manitobans. In the last little while, the government has made drastic increases to park entrance fees. They have increased camping fees; they have increased user fees for such things as firewood; they have increased fishing fees, and they have eliminated seniors' passes for Manitobans. Can the government explain why this government has doubled the fee charged to campers when they reserve a camping spot in any of our Manitoba provincial parks?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, the department has attempted to position itself so that it is able to invest dollars in the services that we provide and provide dollars to upgrade the facilities within our campsites in all of our parks. In so doing, we are attempting to have much more of a cost-recovery basis within the campsite areas.

Mr. Struthers: Madam Speaker, can the minister tell me then: How much of this fee increase for reserving camp spots will go to a company called Destinet Reservation Services, which is a Mississauga, Ontario, company that has been contracted to provide information in our parks, including taking camping reservations?

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, the member may not be aware, but this company will be locating in the province of Manitoba shortly in order to provide the employment here. In order to enhance the opportunity for people to reserve campsites, there is a call-centre approach being taken so that people can now have access to reserve in advance at 20 of our campsites, as opposed to the reduced number that we had before.

Mr. Struthers: So, Madam Speaker, what the minister is telling me is that, if I want to book a site in the Duck Mountains today, I would have to phone Mississauga, Ontario, to do that.

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, the member does not want to acknowledge that 1-800 numbers are in fact free, and our old service had a toll cost attached to it. The service that the public is demanding of campsites--they want to know that they can phone ahead, have a guaranteed reservation on their site and know that, when they arrive there with their family on the weekend, that site in fact will be available to them.

The service is free in the phone numbers that they make, and there is a reservation fee attached. If that is what the member is unwilling to acknowledge, then he believes that there is no opportunity for cost-recovery.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

Over the last couple of days Manitobans have been receiving their property tax bills, and a very significant and a growing portion of that tax bill is school tax. This government has continuously over the years allowed the financing of education to rely heavier on the funding of getting it through property tax.

My question to the Minister of Finance is: Does this government have any intentions, either now or in the future, to resolve the problem of relying on financing education more and more on property tax? When is this government going to be prepared to deal with this issue?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, in terms of our support for municipalities and for school divisions, when you look at how we have fared across Canada, we have fared very well in this province, particularly when you take into consideration the significant reductions in funding from the federal government, the federal Liberal government, by the way, that over these last two budget years alone has reduced funding to the Province of Manitoba by some $220 million. Through all of these times of adjustments in terms of less funding from Ottawa, we have absorbed the vast majority of that at the provincial government level without offloading it to other jurisdictions, to other levels of government, because we know at the end of the day there is only one taxpayer, whether that taxpayer is paying federal taxes, provincial taxes, school taxes or municipal taxes. So we will continue to focus on an overall basis on being sure that taxpayers get the greatest efficiency for their dollars and that taxes do not go up in Manitoba.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, about 90 percent of what the Minister of Finance has just said is absolute garbage. The question that we are asking the Minister of Finance--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Inkster was recognized for a supplementary question which requires no preamble.

Mr. Lamoureux: My question to the Minister of Finance is: When is this government going to stop the further reliance of financing education through the property tax, take responsibility and start financing it through general revenues, not the cutbacks and the freezes that this government has instituted over the years?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the member must be awfully sensitive whenever we talk about the federal Liberal government, and he should be because of the lack of support that they provided to Canadians and Manitobans in the important areas of health and education. When you look at our direct support for education from our budget, it is the second-largest expenditure in the provincial budget in Manitoba. Over 19 percent of our expenditures go to education, unlike during the NDP days when it was down in the 17 percent range. So make no mistake, between health care at 34 percent and education at over 19 percent, those two departments are over 50 percent of all of the spending in Manitoba, clearly showing the priorities that this government attaches to health and education.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, as the minister plays with numbers and stats, the question still remains: Does the Minister of Finance have any intention of dealing with the issue at hand and start to reverse the trend and start to pay more for education through general revenues as opposed to property tax? That is the issue. Will the minister respond to the question?

Mr. Stefanson: The member for Inkster asks us to spend more money in one area, and I would ask him where does he expect us to find that money. Does he want us to increase taxes in Manitoba? Does he expect us to cut back health care, education? Certainly the Liberals are experts when it comes to reducing support for health and education, because we have seen that at the federal level. Our support for health and education is second to none. Over 53 percent of all of the money we spend is in those two very important areas, and that certainly shows a clear sign of where our priorities are, unlike Liberal priorities which are to reduce funding for health and to reduce funding for education.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, yesterday in Estimates I asked the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism if there are any major trade treaties or agreements under discussion between Canada and any other nations to which Manitoba was an observer, a party or was being consulted. The minister said there were none.

What can the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism tell the House about the multilateral agreement on investment currently under negotiation with Canada and a number of other countries?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): To tell the truth, our department, Manitoba Trade, took the question under the context that we are dealing directly with direct trade issues as it relates to the specific. I will take that question as notice.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, could the minister simply answer the question. Is Manitoba involved in the discussions of the draft multilateral agreement on investment which has a great deal to do with trade? In fact, probably 90 percent of it has to do with trade and investment. Are we involved? Are we not? Does the minister know what is going on in his department or does he not?

Mr. Downey: I do not know why the member did not ask that specific question yesterday when we were in our Estimates, whether he waited till today to get the television on him or not, Madam Speaker. The individual who would be in charge of that was there during the Estimates, and he did not ask the question. That is why today, to make sure I am absolutely accurate, I will take the question as notice.

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Mr. Sale: If the minister is able to find out something about this agreement, which has been on the table for some year and a half now, will he undertake, as he did yesterday in regard to two other similar agreements--much less important, by the way--to table the draft text of the agreement, which was circulated to all provinces in January of 1997, with this House so that Manitobans can understand the implications of this very important agreement, particularly in light of the fact that if it were adopted in its current form, it would prohibit many of the clauses of which the government was so proud when they sold the Manitoba Telephone System when they said that ownership would remain with Manitobans, that the head office would remain in Winnipeg and so forth--not possible under the MAI. Will he table the agreement?

Mr. Downey: I am still proud that we sold the Manitoba Telephone System and pleased that Manitobans were able to participate in that company which truly is theirs.

Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): My question is to the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) and concerns the ManGlobe project. Would the minister table copies of correspondence and dates of all meetings of this minister with the member of Parliament for Winnipeg South and Winnipeg South Centre or staff over ManGlobe negotiations?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): If there are such minutes or if there were such meetings, I would accommodate the member.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I would like to ask the minister whether he would check with his department and find out who proposed Reg Alcock as federal contact for ManGlobe and why he was the only politician listed as a contact.

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Yes I will, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): My final supplementary to the same minister is this: When the minister was writing four cheques of $125,000 each to ManGlobe, was he aware that Revenue Canada was suing the ManGlobe president in two separate claims for $46,753 in unpaid income tax and a further $18,615 in GST arrears. What due diligence went into selecting the successful applicant for these grants?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, I did not write the cheques personally for ManGlobe, and there were not four cheques for $125,000. Yes, I guess there were--$125,000 each; that is correct.

The question dealing with the reasoning for the funding of the money was that there were certain conditions that had to be met by the company. Those conditions were met, one of them being that they had to have partners or participants like the Royal Bank, Canada Post, the Manitoba Telephone System. Those were part of the conditions on which the monies were advanced. There had to be conditions met and they were met, Madam Speaker.

As far as the funds owed to the federal government, to my knowledge, I was not aware of it. I am not sure the department was or not. I will check.

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Environment regarding the recent fuel oil spill at Gods Lake Narrows.

Will the minister provide to the House today details of his department's investigation of the spill and whether this spill has affected the drinking water supply in that community?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): The word I received yesterday, Madam Speaker, was that the work was being done to prevent this spilled aircraft fuel from finding its way into the drinking water supply. That was the primary job that was undertaken yesterday. Once that was under control, the object was then to review the situation at that point as to what to do with the fuel that was on the ground. There was not a significant concern about the fuel on the ground leaching or seeping, because the level of moisture in the ground was high enough that that was not the main concern. The main concern was indeed whether it would get into the drinking water supply. Later this afternoon, I expect to hear a further report which I can share with the honourable member.

Mr. Dewar: Madam Speaker, what steps is the minister's department taking to remediate the contaminated soil in that area?

Mr. McCrae: Well, as I said, Madam Speaker, the incident just occurred. The immediate priority was to ensure using these absorbent booms and other efforts to keep the fuel from finding its way to the lake water supply, and a further report was coming to me as to how to deal with it once that had been contained. Once I have that information, I would be very happy to share it with the honourable member.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Urban Affairs.

The loss of banking services in the inner city continues to be a serious concern to my constituents, to community groups and to businesses in the west Broadway and Wolseley area. Such losses, the banks will tell us, are as a result of technological changes, but they are also the result of provincial government policies.

I want to ask the minister if he could tell us whether, when such government decisions to abandon the inner city--whether it be in the reduction of services at the Misericordia or the removal of civil servants to other areas--there is a systematic consideration of the impact of those provincial government policies on the inner-city neighbourhoods by the Urban Affairs Committee of Cabinet.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): Madam Speaker, any type of movement out of the city of Winnipeg and the core area naturally is of a concern to the provincial government. This is one of the reasons why I believe the member is referring to--I believe a bank is closing its doors. The TD Bank is moving. Other banks have, in fact, made a point of making contact with my department to tell me that they are in the process of moving and the fact of what services they are offering or pertaining to leave in the community to service the clients, particularly if there are seniors involved with it.

In the other area in which the member talks about the commitment to the inner city, this government has always had a very strong commitment to the city of Winnipeg and the inner core area. When you look at the amount of money and the effort that has gone into the core area development, the North Portage Development, The Forks development, these are hundreds of millions of dollars that we have spent in the inner-city area for the advancement of the city. Our commitment has always been very, very strong, and, in fact, if you look at the Winnipeg Development Agreement, there are a lot of areas and initiatives that I can explain in my next answer here.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, is the minister prepared to undertake a study on behalf of my constituents on the impact of his own government's decisions to reduce the Misericordia services and to look at the impact on the banking services of the area? Because what we now have is an area from Arlington Street down to the heart of the inner city on Kennedy Street, approximately about 9,000 people who are now left without a bank.

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, from time to time there was always contact between, as I mentioned, the various banking institutes with my department. I will certainly bring to their attention the fact that there is the apparent lack of banking facilities in the area. I will certainly take that message forth with my meetings with bankers and banking officials at every opportunity that I meet with them.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Urban Affairs to report back on that meeting to the House and, also, whether he would undertake to direct his staff to prepare a report on the overall effects of the loss of banking services in the inner city on seniors, on those without access to transport, and those who have little access to credit in order to use the machines which the banks believe are substitutes.

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, as Minister responsible for Seniors, I have a particular interest in any type of services or lack of services to seniors. In working with the co-ordination through the Seniors Directorate, we certainly will try to bring forth any type of recommendations, and I can share them with the member once we get into any type of discussions along those lines.

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Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, the other day I took a question as notice from the honourable member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen) with regard to school divisions that supplied transportation for students who wished to volunteer sandbagging. Just briefly, in the response to the honourable member's question, in most cases it was the decision of the school division that they would participate in volunteer sandbagging. The students responded, I think, in the true spirit of volunteerism by giving their time and effort. It was probably part of their overall education in terms of working as a team, helping people in need and learning to become community-minded citizens.

It is our belief that the school divisions offered the transportation in a true and genuine spirit of giving to the community, and we are sure that the divisions will be more than willing to pick up the cost of the transportation as a result of this effort. I am also informed by my staff that, under the federal-provincial disaster financial assistance agreement, this type of a cost is not eligible under that agreement.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.