Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon 19 visitors from Treherne, Manitoba, under the direction of Mrs. Isabelle Adams. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan).

We also have seated in the public gallery forty Grade 11 students from the Neepawa Area Collegiate under the direction of Mr. Bob Ferguson. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Cummings).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.

At public meetings and calls we have received from flood victims, people are very concerned in certain areas of the province that the Province of Manitoba and other emergency forces cut roads that impacted on the flow of water in the province. I would like to ask the Premier: Can he inform us what roads were cut in the emergency of the last couple of weeks and what impact that had on communities in terms of their flooding?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): The member will know, from having been on, I know, one of the flights that toured rural southern Manitoba, that a tremendous amount of water flowed into areas that was not anticipated in some cases, that spread out beyond what had ever been experienced in other cases. Where there were instances, I know that judgment decisions had to be made by engineers about the potential harm that could happen when water was artificially dammed by roadways that had not existed perhaps before or that were keeping back water that would then eventually, given the water levels that were being anticipated, after building up a head of perhaps 5 feet in some cases--could break like a dam and create considerably more damage if that was allowed to happen. So, where it was evident that those waters were going to overtop some of these man-made barriers and potentially create more damage and a faster rush of water, judgments were made along the way, and certainly it was evident that they had to cut back roads in order to prevent further washouts and further damage, not only to public property but to individual properties. So I do not have the exact detail on it, but clearly the judgments that were made were to ensure that we did not create a worse problem by allowing an artificial backup that would then be over top and create potentially much more dangerous circumstances by allowing that to happen.

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Mr. Doer: I thank the Premier for his answer. The government, in making statements last week, talked about the choice people have to where they locate their homes. I think the Premier often talked about choosing to live in a flood plain. Some people believe that the government also had to make choices, and they may, for the greater good, have made all the correct choices; I am not disagreeing with that. But for the individual disaster for some flood victims, it may have impacted on their homes, on their businesses, on their situation, a situation that many will have to rebuild. So I would like to ask--many people in Ste. Agathe and many people in Grande Pointe, and I am sure the Premier has heard this as well, feel that some of the action taken, however correctly for the greater good, may have impacted very, very directly on their homes, on their businesses and the flooding in their community. Was there any action on those roads that on the one hand would be good for the greater good but on the other hand would be very, very negative for the people that we were talking about last week as flood victims?

Mr. Filmon: As has been indicated, there will be several reviews of all of the actions undertaken, and we hope to ensure that there is as much objective expertise available in that review process, but to the best of our knowledge, I would say to the Leader of the Opposition that we do not know of instances in which somebody took action that later caused extensive damage to other people as a consequence. We know that the operation of the floodway, in accordance with the regime that was set back in 1970, resulted in an upstream increase, upstream of the floodway of something under 6 inches according to the best expertise that we have available to us. Aside from that, I do not know of any other instances in which it could be said that the direct action of government created an indirect negative action for other people. If the member has specifics of that, that would form part of the review that will be undertaken subsequent to the flood waters subsiding and people turning their attentions to all of that post mortem.

Mr. Doer: I thank the Premier for that answer.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Will the Premier be looking at the impact of the Brunkild dike which, of course, was to protect a large number of people, but obviously that affected the water flows--the Brunkild dike, the cut in roads, the blockage of some major drains, which has been confirmed by the government. That water was obviously moving in a different direction with the moves that were made, albeit to affect a number of people. Will the government be reviewing all the impacts of those decisions on flooded communities and what impact it had on specific people?

Some people claim that they have not been flooded for literally hundreds of years, and they believe that the government action, the government choices, not their choices where to live, the government choices did indeed result in their becoming victims of these measures, as I say, taken for the greater good but having individual consequences which present tremendous challenges for those people in terms of getting back on their feet and rebuilding their lives.

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, we are certainly very, very aware of the tremendous consequences of the flood that was experienced by the tens of thousands of people who live in rural southern Manitoba in the Red River Valley. As I have said on many occasions, our hearts go out to them for the tremendous trauma and stress that they endured, as well as the physical damage that occurred to their properties.

I think it is important for us to ensure that we at all times recognize that this was a flood that was approximately equivalent to that which was experienced in 1852; that it was 40 percent larger than the other largest floods of this century, that is, both 1950 and 1979; that with those unprecedented flows and unprecedented levels, people certainly would not have experienced anything like it in the past, nor would their properties.

I saw, for instance, contours of the city of Winnipeg that would have superimposed this level of flood, and there would have been only a couple of small areas of Winnipeg that would have been untouched under those normal circumstances. The Brunkild dike was, in effect, an extension of what was known as and is known as the west floodway dike. If you look on the satellite photograph maps of this flood, you see the unmistakable man-made lines of the diking system that was put in place with the construction of the floodway to prevent water from going over the height of land into the La Salle River and creating devastation in the city of Winnipeg. It would have overtopped the primary dikes had that been allowed to take place, and so it was part of the design.

All this did was extend it, given that we were now facing unprecedented higher levels and the diking system, that west floodway dike, was only built to a certain level. It had to be augmented by several feet and then extended so that the contour ensured that it kept the flood waters within the Red River basin. It did not add to the flow. It was still the flow that was coming down the Red River basin, but it prevented them from spilling over artificially into the La Salle basin.

All of those things, I believe, ought to be reviewed extensively by the different committees, the Manitoba Water Commission and the EMO in their analysis of how this all worked to ensure that we still have the best possible system available to protect as much of southern Manitoba as possible.

The point that I made to the member opposite on a couple of occasions last week is that we have put extensive investments into protecting certain areas of southern Manitoba. We have eight ring-diked communities that have been given extensive protection. We have many individual homes that had protection built after the 1979 flood, and we have the works that protect the city of Winnipeg. Some people chose to build outside all of those protective works even since 1979, and that is where individual choice and responsibility also comes to play.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, as flood waters recede and people start to get their lives back together, there are people in Manitoba who will feel the consequences of the flood all summer. Ranchers along Lake Manitoba are concerned with the amount of water that has been put through the Assiniboine diversion and the impact that this flooding will have on pastures and hay losses.

Given that these people had similar losses last year and did not receive any compensation, can the minister responsible for disaster assistance give an indication today whether those people who are suffering from the unnatural high levels of water on Lake Manitoba will qualify for compensation for hay losses this year under disaster assistance?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, with the unusually high waters that we had this year with the flooding, certainly there are going to be a lot of areas that are affected by high waters throughout the province. At this point in time, I am informed that there is an insurance program available through the crop insurance program for those producers who have native hay, and I would feel comfortable that those producers who have signed up to that program will have the necessary coverage for their hay losses.

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Ms. Wowchuk: So the minister of disaster assistance is saying that the people along Lake Manitoba are going to have to have purchased crop insurance for their hay, but those people in the Red River Valley who did not purchase crop insurance and have lost their crop will be covered under the special program of disaster assistance. If that is the case, Madam Speaker, that is not fair. Can the minister explain if that is the case? Is there compensation for those people who did not take unseeded acreage coverage? Is there coverage for them, but no coverage for the people who have lost hay?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I think my First Minister (Mr. Filmon) and this government have made it abundantly clear that any program of additional assistance provided to the residents of the Red River Valley would not be part and parcel of the Manitoba crop insurance program. The honourable member referred to my colleague the Minister of Government Services who indicated quite clearly--and I am very pleased--that the Manitoba Crop Insurance Corporation is able to, as a result of a decision made by this government, provide a native hay insurance program to all those who find themselves unable to harvest their hay because of high water conditions in and around Lake Manitoba and upwards along Lake Winnipegosis as well.

Ms. Wowchuk: Since the Assiniboine diversion continues to cause unusually high water in Lake Manitoba and cause problems for farmers in that area, and we see that there is not going to be compensation under this additional program, will the government today make a commitment that they will look to a long-term solution to this problem on Lake Manitoba, which is an unnatural problem resulting from water coming in from the Assiniboine diversion, and ensure that people in that area do not face ongoing problems of not being able to harvest their hay and as a result have to reduce their cattle herds?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I think that the issue needs to be put into some context in relation to what is occurring on the shores of Lake Manitoba this year and last year. There were a number of factors that contributed to the high water along the shores of Lake Manitoba--not only the floodway but also other waters from Winnipegosis and natural runoff from the area to the west and all of the surrounding areas, as a matter of fact, of that lake.

I want to assure the member that, because at least half of these landowners are probably constituents of mine, this is an issue that we are examining closely to see what we can do to mitigate against the water levels on the edges of Lake Manitoba. I do want to put on the record that the estimate of the total amount of water that the floodway would have added to Lake Manitoba last year would have been a total of 6 inches, and the amount being diverted this year is somewhat less. We do expect that the lake levels will be somewhat lower this year than last, but every attempt does need to be made for a long-term plan to mitigate against high levels.

One thing I would like to add, Madam Speaker, is that the fluctuation on the lake is in fact much less than it was prior to the lake being regulated.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, in last Friday's joint news release on the $14-million infrastructure funding for rural Manitoba roads, the Manitoba Finance minister mentioned the crisis faced by many rural communities this spring, and the federal minister responsible for the implementation of western Canada infrastructure programs mentioned that the flood severely damaged the transportation network.

My question to the Minister of Highways is: How many of the 40-plus roads damaged by the Red River flood are actually part of the 169 roads and streets that will receive funding--just prior to the election, I might add--under the Canada-Manitoba Infrastructure Agreement announced last Friday?

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Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, the infrastructure committee received applications from the municipalities, towns, villages, whoever wanted to make an application for roads that they want to have constructed. The member is asking which ones are also flooded. That set of details will be worked out. There is certainly disaster assistance to help with the flooded roads, but these roads are in a separate program, the infrastructure program that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) announced jointly with the federal government which was initiated by requests from those towns, villages and municipalities.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): In light of the fact that over the last few years this government has made a number of attempts to offload roads onto local municipalities, would the minister table a list of municipalities that have agreed to take over maintenance of these roads and a schedule of implementation?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, 30 municipalities have entered agreements for three-year periods with the government of Manitoba for maintaining gravel roads summer and winter, and the specific details I can discuss with the member when we get into Estimates. We will have the whole list and the dollar value of the contract of each different municipality.

Mr. Jennissen: Has the minister put further negotiations on offloading roads on hold, given the major losses facing rural municipalities in the Red River Valley due to the current flood?

Mr. Findlay: I certainly reject the member's use of the word "offloading" because no offloading was done. We opened the opportunity for municipalities to apply, to request an opportunity of signing a contract. Those that wanted to sign a contract did sign a contract. It was completely voluntary on the part of the participants in that contracting process.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, the Department of Health has privatized more health care services than probably any other jurisdiction in the country, and without much success. Witness the supposed $10-million savings in home care, the $200 million in savings yet to be received from the Royal Bank deal with SmartHealth, the Rimer Alco deal and the mess in private personal care homes.

Can the Minister of Health indicate, with respect to the MDS privatization initiative that was announced on Friday, who will be negotiating on behalf of the Province of Manitoba with respect to the contract? Secondly, who will be administering on behalf of Manitobans this contract? Will it be the new superboard, the new laboratory board that was recommended in lab report, or will it be MDS itself that will be administering our health care lab facilities?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, first of all, every time this government or any other, I would imagine, would make any attempts to improve service and make our system more efficient, we are met with the debate about privatization. Let us remember when we are talking about laboratories, we are not talking about direct patient care, we are not talking about primary care, we are not talking about bedside care. We are talking about the services that support our system, and if one were to take the position of members opposite, then we would be in the business of building X-ray equipment, band-aids and other things, because those are now bought from the private sector.

This is not a new announcement; this process began some time ago, and we put out last December a solicitation of interest. We had a number of proposals come forward by the deadline. They were sorted. We are beginning negotiations with one of the three finalists who had, after going through a review, what was viewed as the best proposal, and we hope we are able to conclude an arrangement with them. Specifically, we are putting together a team currently to conduct those negotiations and ultimately this contract. When it is sorted out, Manitoba Health and the Winnipeg Hospital Authority, who will be the purchaser of those services, would be the party who would administer the contract.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, does the minister not recognize the fact that the government initiatives in privatization have been an absolute failure, and in fact the solicitation of interest that went out on December 16 was withdrawn, completely withdrawn and replaced by a new solicitation five days later which completely changed it? So, for the public, the question of the government's handling of health care is no surprise. My question to the Minister of Health is: Can the Minister of Health indicate whether or not this process will include rural laboratories and the Cadham Provincial Lab?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, first of all, I think the member referred to an addendum that was put out some days later with additional parts to it. We are not going to get into that debate, but I think that point is worth making. The member talks about privatization. In terms of the total numbers of labs in the province, I believe, when one includes physician-owned labs, hospital labs, private labs and public, there are some 526 labs. The public and hospital labs in the city of Winnipeg, for example, account for some 10, and rurally, I think, there are three public labs. The vast majority of laboratory facilities in this province of all sizes are in private hands today, so let us not try to make this out to be something more than it is.

This whole effort, again, is being made to deliver much more efficient laboratory services and better patient care to the people of the province.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, the minister makes his own point insofar as the minister has taken the only public labs in the city of Winnipeg out of hospitals and privatized them, not the private, for-profit labs that have been identified as a problem.

Madam Speaker, my final supplementary to the minister on this issue is: Can the minister indicate how long the moratorium on paying a user fee for individuals who require testing of waters, particularly flood victims, will be carried on before the user fee is applied to these individuals to do their water testing?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, what surprises me most in the comments from the member for Kildonan about the labs is I am sure he is well aware that the partner of MDS in their proposal is the union who represents the employees, and I have had each of the major bidders at one time or another speak to us about their proposals. I think he should visit with Mr. Ron Wally who is involved in that process, because he recognized in the conversation that the way the world is moving in labs and technologies and information systems, his union, his employees recognized this was the wave of the future and wanted to be part of it. The only dinosaurs left are the members of the New Democratic Party.

With respect to the specific question from the member for Kildonan, it is my understanding in the arrangements that have been made, those people who have wells that have been affected by the flood, we will cover the costs of those tests as we work through the whole process of re-entry. So with respect to a particular date, I think that will evolve as the flood waters recede and people move back into their homes, but that was the intention and the spirit in which that change was made.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Premier.

As more and more Manitobans are allowed to return to their homes, one of the sad realities is that they are going to have to try to do what they can in terms of trying to define the financial costs of the flood of the century. There is some concern in terms of--no doubt there will be points where there will be disagreements, and when there are disagreements, there has to be an appeal mechanism.

My question to the Premier (Mr. Filmon) is: Does the government have any intentions on charging flood victims in order to go through an appeal process?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, with regard to the disaster assistance and the policy that is in place, it is that, when people are returning to their residences and taking a look at what kind of damages there are, they will be assigned a claims officer immediately upon receipt of their application by the rural municipality, at which time the claims officer will go through in detail with each homeowner the kinds of damages that were done within their dwelling. When that is done, that will then be evaluated by another individual costing out the dollar value of the repairs, at which time the residence owner will be made aware of that amount awarded to them for damages. If at that time the resident owner feels that the award is insufficient or not correct, they can then take this and place this before the appeals board. The appeals board charges each claimant a $25 fee for an appeal, which I do not think is unusual.

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Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, the minister acknowledged right at the ending of his comments that in fact there is going to be a fee for those who want to be able to appeal the decision.

Does the government believe that, given the circumstances, the fee is in fact necessary at this point in time?

Mr. Pitura: Well, Madam Speaker, in a lot of areas of government, whether it be local government or provincial government or federal government, if there is an appeals mechanism set up, in most cases the appellant is asked to pay a minor fee toward the cost of running the appeal, and I think that is just a standard practice that has been adopted throughout a number of years and across many jurisdictions.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask the minister responsible does he not feel that--you are charging the deductible, you are charging a significant size of deductible of 20 percent, people are getting depreciated value, and if you now disagree, you are going to have to pay an additional fee in order to get your case appealed. Is that fair to Manitobans?

Mr. Pitura: Madam Speaker, the disaster assistance policy and the program has been in place for some 26 years. Over that period of time, Manitoba has seen a number of disasters, and the disaster assistance program has come into play on each and every one of those disasters. To this point in time, whether it be the flood of 1996, the flood of 1995, the flood of 1993, the forest fires of 1989, any of these disasters, the Disaster Assistance Board has approached the disaster, it has worked well for all Manitobans concerned and there has been, basically, a high level of satisfaction with the program.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) and concerns the ManGlobe projects.

When Karen Alcock left her job in Lloyd Axworthy's office, she became director of the project, the ManGlobe project, with a salary of $7,500 plus GST. She received $53,000 severance pay after waiting only 52 days. She received immediate employment as a consultant to and an executive assistant to MTS Advanced President Bruce MacCormack while he was still on the ManGlobe board and while MTS still holds 30 percent of the shares.

Can the minister confirm that, as part of her employment package, Karen Alcock received shares in ManGlobe, and would he table a copy of the universal shareholders' agreement?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, the member is asking me questions, quite frankly, that would be better asked of the manager of ManGlobe and/or the federal people who were involved that he has mentioned. That information is outside, really, the agreement which we participated in as it relates to the ManGlobe organization.

Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, the management team had to be acceptable to this government as one of the conditions that this government placed on the appointment of the management team.

I would like to ask the minister: Will the minister now confirm that, as part of the universal shareholders' agreement, Karen Alcock is listed as a shareholder, and will the minister tell us the current value of the shares? Given that Michael Elder of Elderhouse paid $1.2 million for 30 percent of the shares, will the minister tell this House whether the same evaluation will be used to determine the value of Mrs. Alcock's share holdings?

Mr. Downey: Again, with respect to the member, I do not believe the questions that he is asking, that we have the ability to get that information as it is directly involved in ManGlobe. What we asked for was the appropriate partnership and representatives on the board of directors of ManGlobe, not dealing directly with the management. So I would ask the member to ask those questions of the management of ManGlobe and/or the federal government who in fact he is making reference to.

Mr. Maloway: As I said before, Madam Speaker, the government required a management team acceptable to the government. This government approved the management team; it approves the board.

Could the minister provide details of the contract that Mrs. Alcock negotiated with the federal industry department to provide services to Industry Canada and tell us how many other federal contracts Mrs. Alcock was involved in negotiating on behalf of ManGlobe when she was the project manager and a shareholder, and how did those contracts affect the value of her shares?

Mr. Downey: Unless I incorrectly heard the member, the questions that he is asking would be far better asked of the federal minister of industry, trade and technology or someone at the federal government level. We are responsible for supporting an R & D project between the Province of Manitoba and ManGlobe where there are certain terms and conditions that had to be lived up to. It is my understanding--I am informed by the department--that those activities that were supposed to be lived up to, have been.

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Madam Speaker, there has been a great deal of concern expressed regarding the potential closure of the downtown Eaton's with the impact on commercial space that that would have, but we also have a real problem in northwest Winnipeg with the announced closure early next year of the Garden City Eaton's which would put approximately 200,000 square feet of commercial space on the market. I am wondering if the government can give us an update on the closure of Garden City Eaton's. Is it going ahead? What is the status?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): I believe I dealt with that last week. I have no further information as it relates to the one which the member refers to other than I do know that the downtown Eaton's store that I referred to last week has been backed up, I believe, till February of next year.

I guess the question that she asked is always of the negative kind--what is happening to Eaton's. There is never a question about the jobs and the unemployment rate in Manitoba or the opening of Home Depot or a lot of the other activities that are going on in the province. Granted we are concerned about the jobs in Eaton's. We are working in conjunction with city officials, officials from the department, from Eaton's and the general public to try and save as many jobs as possible, but there is a responsibility for the investor, as well, to carry out what is their responsibility.

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Unconscionable trivialization of a really important issue.

I would like to ask if the minister is concerned or any member of the government is concerned that a private developer wants to take away more green space in the city of Winnipeg, i.e., Chochinov park, while at the same time there is a glut on the commercial market of commercial space in northwest Winnipeg which could be exacerbated by the 200,000 square feet of commercial space that the closure of Garden City Eaton's would put on to the real estate.

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, I want to make it perfectly clear that I did not in any way trivialize the issue which the member has raised, but I actually, quite honestly, did not detect a question in her last supplementary.

Ms. Barrett: I would like to ask the Minister of Urban Affairs--perhaps the Minister of Urban Affairs can answer the question--if he would convene a meeting of the city with the Urban Affairs Committee of Cabinet to look at the impact of the potential sale of Chochinov park to a private company in light of the Capital Region strategy which has as one of its guiding principles the retention and strengthening of urban green spaces, not the sale of our communities' natural resources to the highest bidder.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): Madam Speaker, we are always naturally concerned about any type of development in the city of Winnipeg as to its economic benefits and the ramifications for jobs in the city. The comment that the member mentioned regarding the development of a park would always come under the jurisdiction of the City of Winnipeg under their zoning classifications and their zoning applications, and whether it is going to be sale or it is going to be the development, would go through the natural format of public hearings which is carried on by the City of Winnipeg.

There is room for the people to make presentations, make written--or make submissions on any type of application of that nature. I would encourage the member to be there, present when the city is going through this type of process, to make that application and to make the public presentation for or against that development.

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Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): My question is for the Minister of Education. To a greater degree than in other provinces, Manitoba students depend upon their own labour to pay university and college fees. That is, more of our students work and they work longer hours than students in other provinces, and so the relationship between the minimum wage and student fees is significant.

Could the Minister of Education confirm for the House that since 1988, since her government began, the hours required to work to pay basic arts and science fees have in fact increased from 275 to 455 hours?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I cannot confirm how many students work during the academic year versus those who gather their money for tuition during the summer or through other sources. What I can confirm is that we have amongst the most favourable tuition rates in the nation. I can confirm that we have a learning tax credit that will return to students 10 percent of their tuition fee. I can confirm that we have allocated an extra $1 million this year for additional scholarships and bursaries. I can confirm, as well, that for arts today, going into the University of Manitoba, for example, the increase for a degree in arts is 3 percent with a learning tax credit of 5 percent. Students should not have as much difficulty this year as they did last in that particular basic faculty.

Ms. Friesen: Could the minister tell us whether she has investigated the impact of this extended requirement for paid labour because it is approximately, if we work on the basis of 20 hours of student work per week, we are going from 13 weeks to 23 weeks? Could she tell us what the impact has been, not only on students' academic work but on the efficiency of institutions, particularly the graduation rate?

Mrs. McIntosh: I can only repeat to the member that how students gather their money for tuition will vary from area to area, province to province, community to community. What I can tell the member, which is the important point, is that we have kept fees, "we" being the institutions in Manitoba, with support from government, not from the federal government. The support from the federal government has gone essentially, because the drastic cuts in transfer payments cannot be ignored in a major challenge that provincial governments and the universities have had to face. Despite the tragedy of what the federal government has done to us, we have amongst the most favourable tuition fees in the nation. We have tremendous access; we have programs available for access; we have programs available for scholarships and bursaries. We have a number of things in place that make the availability to attend post-secondary education in Manitoba very good compared to other provinces.

Madam Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired.