ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Lottery Revenue Decline
Impact on Education/Health
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).
Today his Minister of Finance is quoted as saying that the provincial-owned source revenues are, quote, on stream.
Part of those revenues include a lottery revenue that went from $227 million in '94-95 to some $396 million in '95-96. It included $251 million for the regular income of lotteries and the $145 million that was removed as a one-time-only payment from the financial accounts, for a total of $396 million.
As the Dominion Bond Rating agency has said, that is a one-time-only payment for this next fiscal year.
I would like to ask the Premier, what is the impact of a decline of some $145 million in the one-time-only lottery revenue item on the health and education cuts that are being proposed by this provincial government?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I think that was very clearly outlined in the budget document, as the Leader of the Opposition suggests.
We show the annual lottery revenue. We show it as being transferred, the $145 million one-time transfer. We have also projected in our 1995 budget document our next three years revenue projections on an overall basis, and if the Leader of the Opposition looks at the budget document that we tabled back in March of this year, we showed that we were able to factor in the information that was announced last year by the federal government in terms of reductions in federal transfers, but because we had received the more recent federal reductions in the 1995 federal budget, we did show that there was an $87-million issue that has to be dealt with in 1996.
We suggested our first course of action was to point out to the federal government that we disagreed with their establishment of priorities, that the greatest priorities should be for health and post-secondary education and to support the families.
We made a request of them to provide that funding from the reserve that they had established, some $2 billion. They at this point in time have chosen not to do that.
We disagree with that, but as a result of that decision we today are faced with an $87-million shortfall in funding from the federal government that has to be addressed in our 1996 budget.
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Federal Equalization Payments
Status Report
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, that confirms that we also have a $145-million shortfall from Lotteries that you also have to deal with from the one-time-only payment, something that is never referenced by this government in their communication strategy.
I would like to ask the Premier, has his government received revised numbers for the equalization transfers for the '95-96 fiscal year and the '96-97 fiscal year, Madam Speaker, and are those numbers up $34 million in this fiscal year and are they up a total of $73 million for the '96-97 fiscal year over what the budget of '95-96 is in this year?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): First of all, the Leader of the Opposition is wrong.
I do not want him to leave the impression that we have the $87-million issue to deal with in terms of the shortfall from funding from Ottawa plus another $145 million over and above that. That is not the case.
If he looks at our 1995 budget, he will see that the shortfall that has to be addressed as a result of reduced federal funding is $87 million. I hope he is clear with that.
The issue of equalization, Madam Speaker, equalization, as the Leader knows, is open for 30 months after each year-end. So we are not only being dealt with on the basis of current estimates, we also get what are called prior period adjustments for prior year's adjustments. We are in the position that Manitoba, because we have had population growth that was reflected in our last equalization numbers, will be reflected in revised numbers.
We are expecting to release our next quarterly report sometime hopefully before the end of this month, which is tradition. Normally we get it out in the month of December, and at this point in time our equalization adjustment for the current year will be up somewhat.
In terms of the projection for next year, we will be receiving revised projections in February of 1996, but at this point in time they are basically in line with what we were projecting in our 1995 budget.
Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, this government has called press conferences at a similar time in past years when they felt that equalization grants were going to go down as a justification to cut programs.
I would like to table the latest projections from the federal government on equalization, indicating an increase this year, in this fiscal year, and an increase in next year's fiscal year for a sum total of $73 million.
Now we understand the negative cut that the federal government has implemented, and we also oppose the cuts that have been made on health and post-secondary education.
Why are the minister and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) hiding from the people of Manitoba some of the more positive transfers on equalization, some $73 million, so the public can have the facts on the negative cuts and the positive equalization numbers so that all Manitobans can participate with all the information?
Why is this government keeping this information secret in these decisions to cut health and post-secondary education?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, there is nothing of substance that can be hidden, because the people of Manitoba now know by virtue of an act that was passed in this Legislature on November 3 that we must achieve a balanced budget each and every year.
So when all of the numbers are clearly defined and known, the people of Manitoba will know exactly where we stand. As he should be aware, there are continuous revisions being made going back as much as three years, as the minister has just said, based on new information that is provided to him.
The clear numbers with respect to this in-year, that is, 1995-96 fiscal year, ending March 31, 1996, will be known and will be put out as part of the Second Quarter Financial Statement.
With respect to next year, all we are dealing with is projections, and he knows full well that although projections sometimes go up, we were caught in a situation a couple of years ago in which the projection was altered midyear by $150 million in the negative sense.
So to start spending money as he did that year--as soon as that was made available, he stood up and said, we will spend it here, we will spend it there, we will spend it the other way. It was all money that we never ended up getting. He spent money that we never had, and he continued the New Democratic tradition of spending money that the people of Manitoba do not have. That is what has put us in the position that we have, over $7 billion of debt, most of which was created by New Democratic administrations.
Madam Speaker, that is why we are in the situation that we in are today, and that is why our balanced budget ensures that we will not get in that situation again in the future.
Children's Hospital
Relocation
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, when the government closed children's services at Victoria Hospital, Misericordia Hospital, St. Boniface Hospital, consolidated all of the children's services at the Health Sciences Centre, both ministers said they were going to improve the quality of service delivered to children. In fact, Children's Hospital saw the same budget cutbacks as a result of this government.
Now the minister's hand-picked executive committee is recommending that Children's Hospital be considered to be moved to the suburbs, to one suburb facility, which is contrary to what most people and experts and parents recommend.
Can I ask the Minister of Health what is this government's position with respect to the relocation of Children's Hospital out to the suburbs at one hospital?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member is taking a leaf from the page of the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) today in that he is spreading information that has no substance. There is no such recommendation made to me. This is exactly the same idea that was raised by the member for Brandon East when he talked about the closure of numerous rural hospitals. There was absolutely no foundation for that, and the honourable member for Kildonan, I think, believes or would know that there is no foundation for what he is raising today. There might very well be discussions along these lines but there is certainly no recommendation on my desk.
Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, the minister did not answer the question.
My supplementary to the minister: As we speak, the minister's hand-appointed executive committee is making a number of recommendations, and I will table this hand-picked executive committee, with no representation from the public, no family doctors on it. They are having discussions at the Holiday Inn South. The minister is trying to hide away from those recommendations.
I would like to simply ask him, is it the government's position that they will reject any recommendation--after having changed the entire scope of children's services in this province, will they reject the recommendation that is on the table to move Children's Hospital from the centre of Winnipeg out to one of the suburbs?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I would caution the honourable member that it would not be a good idea for him or for me to substitute our clinical and medical judgment for the judgment of those who may indeed be making recommendations at some point in the future.
The honourable member chooses to approach health care from a political standpoint; we on this side choose to approach health care from a health care outcomes standpoint.
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Health Care System
Public Consultations
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can the minister, who said the emergency wards would not be closed and then closed them, who said they would be reopened and then subsequently is not reopening some, can that minister promise this House that prior to closing possibly a thousand beds in Winnipeg, prior to closing possibly a thousand beds outside of Winnipeg, prior to raising Pharmacare rates on January 1, prior to the cutting and the converting of Seven Oaks Hospital and Misericordia Hospital, that he will come to the public of Manitoba and allow public input, not after the decision is made, not after he has had a chance to review recommendations, but prior to making these decisions?
Will he come to the public and allow them to have input?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I think it was yesterday, Madam Speaker, I responded to the honourable member by saying, I do not think ever before in the history of health care has there been so much public consultation and public input.
Even with respect to emergency services, over the last two or three months tens of thousands of Manitobans have made their views known.
This government is responsive, this government understands, this government is listening, and that has been the case since 1992, when reforms to our health system began to take shape.
They began to take shape because of consultation with literally thousands of Manitobans.
Other provinces, Madam Speaker, have not engaged in anywhere near the kind of consultation that has taken place here in the province of Manitoba.
What consultation did the New Democratic government of Saskatchewan engage in when 52 rural hospitals were closed? What kind of consultation was engaged in by Bob Rae when he unilaterally hacked away and removed 10,000 acute care beds from the hospital system in Ontario, something that the honourable Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) here in Manitoba said he is proud to defend?
Education System
Health Curriculum
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Education.
The Filmon blueprint for education is failing. It is taking schools backwards. It is eliminating health education and physical education when kids in Manitoba are less healthy and need more activity, and is eliminating skills for job finding and career planning when students are faced with a poor economy and more challenges in their lives.
It is throwing so many changes at once into the schools, there is chaos, Madam Speaker.
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Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please pose her question now.
Ms. Cerilli: I want to ask the Minister of Education, given that this government reversed the decision in the blueprint, or the recommendation, to eliminate phys ed in high schools only after public outcry and that their own study shows that children are less healthy, why are they eliminating health education at K to 9 in our schools in Manitoba?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, just as the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen) was wrong yesterday in saying there was no professional development or supporting documents for the division that chose not to participate in the pilot, just as she was wrong in her preamble yesterday, the member for Radisson is also wrong in her preamble today.
We have put--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Ms. Cerilli: I want to have the minister read the document that does eliminate health education as a core course, K to 9, in her own document. It is in the blueprint.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Radisson does not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.
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Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Education, to complete her response.
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I would be most pleased if the member would like to come to my office for a full briefing so she can better understand the issue, and my door is open to her for that.
Madam Speaker, we will be putting increased emphasis on health and fitness and physical education, but not as separate components from each other.
That is part of the problem we have had. People do not see fitness and physical activity and healthy lifestyles as being linked together.
Our new curriculum will be stronger in terms of emphasizing the emphasis on healthy lifestyle. It is mandatory till the end of Senior 2 or Grade 10, thanks to the work of people in the health field who have been putting together content that will be applicable to a society in which we have raised a whole series of inactive people for watching television instead of being active when they could be. We intend to change those attitudes. That is in the curriculum, Madam Speaker.
Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the invitation by the minister, and I would be happy to compare notes on health and fitness any time.
Career Development
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): I want to ask the minister, given that at the youth forum yesterday that was at St. Luke's parish, where we heard youth saying that they need more help in making career plans because guidance staff are run off their feet dealing with crises and an increased teaching load, what recommendations can she give for how schools can deal with the problem of ensuring that each student that leaves high school in the province of Manitoba is going to have a plan for their career and their life after high school? How is this government going to--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I am quite happy to answer the question, but I believe, according to our rules, that questions as supplementary are to be supplementary questions based upon information provided in the first question. So I believe the member, in addition to having--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, there are many references in Beauchesne with regard to Question Period and with regard to answers relating to questions and matters raised, but I do not believe there is any reference anywhere in Beauchesne or our rules or the traditions of this House for a minister playing Speaker when she is supposed to be answering questions. Will you please ask her to come to order, Madam Speaker?
Madam Speaker: On the point of order by the honourable member for Thompson, I would remind the honourable minister that a response should deal directly with the question being posed and should be as direct and as brief as possible.
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Point of Order
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I rose on a point of order when I said, well, I would be happy to answer the question. The member was out of order, and I believe the member for Thompson was responding to that. Or did you--[interjection]
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
The honourable Minister of Education has indicated she is asking for a point of clarification. I directed that indeed the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) did have a point of order and requested the co-operation of the minister to provide a direct answer.
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Madam Speaker: I am now prepared to recognize the honourable member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli) with a final supplementary question.
Ms. Cerilli: To the same minister, I would like for the minister to show me in the blueprint any action plans or recommendations so that the government is going to give direction to school divisions who are faced with many curriculum changes, less teachers, while students come to school with greater needs for preventative health and for career planning when there is less time in the day for scheduling.
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, even though the member has changed topics, I will refer back to her first original topic, which I believe was the main question from which all supplementaries should flow, and I will indicate to her that with regard to physical education--and I will also answer the new question that she asked--the physical education component will be one that will be a rigorous curriculum which will contain the aspects of health and healthy lifestyles that students need to rouse them out of the lifestyles they have become accustomed to over this current generation, which spent a lot of time in front of a television rather than being physically active.
That is in the curricula, and we thank all of those who gave us input, both experts and members of the public, to develop what the experts say we need and the public says they want.
In terms of preparing students for careers, perhaps the member did not happen to catch the announcement I made last Friday.
The member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) does not want me to speak anymore.
I am constantly amused and puzzled by the way they want questions answered and then when you try to give an answer they want you to sit down.
Point of Order
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): On a point of order, Madam Speaker, on three occasions now you have stood up and when you stand, the minister is supposed to sit down and the Speaker--[interjection] She has recognized me on a point of order.
I would really ask you to call the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) to order when you stand up to cut off her answer. It is very important to the workings of this House. A minister of the Crown should know that, and she should not continue to abuse our rules.
Madam Speaker: On the official Leader of the Opposition's point of order, indeed he does have a point of order.
I would remind all honourable members that it is their obligation, and I would ask their co-operation, to indeed be seated when the Speaker of this House stands to either curtail debate or recognize another individual on a point of order.
Now, I recognize today is Friday. There is still time on the clock and I would appreciate it if everyone could co-operate so we could finalize Question Period in a more orderly fashion.
Education System
English Language Exam--Teacher Markers
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.
Will the minister confirm that she switched from the stick to the carrot, that this week she has offered the Grade 12 English language exam markers $100 a day in addition to their regular pay as teachers for five of the nine marking days?
Could she tell us whose budget has been cut to provide these additional incentives for the exams?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, again, I am incredibly amused. Here we have the opposition members who have been saying, why do you not pay the markers more and have them mark on the weekends, and we are now planning to do that and they now are upset that we are doing it.
I find the inconsistencies coming from the other side to be a little wearing and a little overdone. Their flagrant disregard for the rules of the House--the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh), who knows very well what a point of order is because he was a deputy clerk, constantly breaking that rule. I am telling you, Madam Speaker--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
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Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, will the minister confirm that she is asking markers to consider marking papers from 8:30 in the morning to 9:30 in the evening? And will she tell us what assurance of quality control she can offer at the end of that 13-hour day?
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I do not know the hours that have been negotiated between markers and the department. I do know that the department is following through on suggestions that we received from the field, that we do hire teachers to mark on the evenings and weekends rather than during the school day, and we have followed that suggestion.
It seems a reasonable and good suggestion, this first time through the marking of such an extensive, comprehensive exam, and indeed it is showing that the markers are starting to respond with great enthusiasm with the ability to work on the weekends and be paid a higher sum. We are now getting the markers that were requested.
Desjardins Report
Tabling Request
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Lotteries.
The biggest tax grab, of course, of the past seven years has been that in gambling revenues as this government has smiled from one ear to the other ear, taking in tax revenue. Madam Speaker, that has been at a great cost, a social cost where we have seen families break up and numerous other social problems as a direct result.
Yesterday this minister was provided a draft copy of the Desjardins committee report, an independent committee report.
My question to the minister is, is this minister prepared to table that draft document so that all members will be able to have input to the committee regarding this very important, crucial document?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the member is partly correct in his preamble. Yes, I did receive a copy of an unfinished report from the Lottery Review Commission provided to me yesterday by the chairman, Mr. Larry Desjardins, and the committee felt very strongly that they had made a commitment to get a copy of the report to government by December 15, so they undertook to do that.
They still have some elements to finalize in terms of the report. It is mostly done, but their thinking was to get it to our government to give us an opportunity to review it, obviously formulate positions on the recommendations. We are now going to be faced with a situation where it will have to be printed for a period of time.
I expect it will be ready very early in 1996 and our full intention is to make the report available as soon as possible for members of this Legislature, for members of the public to have discussion and debate on the recommendations, so I thank the committee for making the effort to get us a copy as quickly as they could, and we will be reviewing it over the course of the next couple of weeks.
Gambling
Social Costs
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, will the minister responsible acknowledge the problems that VLTs are causing in our rural and urban communities by being in every bar and lounge throughout the province of Manitoba--as the gambling committee recommended in Alberta, where they in fact recommend that there should be primary locations for gambling in Alberta, not bars and lounges?
When is this government going to take action to deal with this problem?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, this is very interesting. First the member asked for a copy of the report to see what the recommendations are. Now he is making his own recommendations or anticipation, I guess, what might be in the report, coming from a member who wanted--how many casinos did you want to locate throughout Manitoba, three more, five more, six more?
I do not think the question carries a great deal of credibility, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, will then the minister deny that there is any reallocation that is being suggested in the Desjardins report, or does the Desjardins report recognize this as a problem and want to see this government take some action to resolve the problem?
Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I am not sure if the member has seen a copy of the report or not. I would suggest that he be patient. We have just received a copy. I have indicated what the process will be. The report has to be printed, ultimately released by the commission.
It certainly is our intention to release that report as soon as we can to have debate on this very important topic, and I would encourage the member for Inkster to be patient. I do not anticipate it taking very much longer.
Faneuil ISG Inc.
Operating History
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Premier.
Could the Deputy Premier indicate approximately how long the Faneuil group of companies of Boston has been operating in the United States? Is it an old company, Madam Speaker, or a fairly new company? How long has it been operating?
Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): I will take the specifics of that question as notice, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, I am surprised the minister does not know the answer.
Corporate Evaluation
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Was a corporate valuation, Madam Speaker, to establish the worth of the assets of the Faneuil group which are being purchased, done on that group of companies prior to undertaking the various deals between Faneuil, MTS, et cetera, and was that corporate valuation provided to the Provincial Auditor?
Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): I will take that question as notice, Madam Speaker.
Operating History
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Will the Deputy Premier finally come clean and confirm that prior to 1994, the Faneuil group of companies did not--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, the member for Crescentwood just by another phrase suggested that the Minister of Industry and Trade lied to this House. I think he should, first of all, apologize. Secondly, he should withdraw.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Madam Speaker, I am sure if the member for Crescentwood wanted to accuse the minister of lying he would have used that word.
Madam Speaker, a number of terms have been used in the House in regard to--for example, "not telling the truth" has been listed as being parliamentary, and it is very clear that asking a minister to come clean, I mean, you know, I think that is a bare minimum we expect from this government, and we are not accusing him of lying when we ask him to come clean. So it is most definitely--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the government House leader's point of order, I have some difficulty with his explanation of the point of order.
However, in the Speaker's opinion, I am trying to instill that this be a kinder, gentler House, and I would ask all honourable members to exercise caution with the choice of their words.
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Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, to quickly pose his question.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the Deputy Premier confirm that prior to 1994 the Faneuil group of Boston did not even exist in spite of its press releases claiming to be in business since 1989?
It came into existence late in 1994 after Faneuil ISG was created.
Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Madam Speaker, I attempt to come clean every day. The shower that I have usually is supposed to work.
I would, Madam Speaker, as I had indicated--I will not accept any of his preamble, and I would take that as notice as well as part of the other questions which he has presented.
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Taking Charge! Program
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, it was said that Nero fiddled while Rome burned. In Manitoba, while the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson) serves lunch, many Manitobans go hungry.
The Children's Advocate recommendations of last year have not been implemented, child care spaces are empty, the funding for children's special needs has been expended for the current financial year.
After two and a half years The Vulnerable Persons Act has not been proclaimed. Taking Charge! clients are required to work shift work, but there is no child care. The food allowance for children on city welfare will be reduced. There has been no increase in social assistance rates in two and a half years.
Finally, people who have expertise in welfare reform have not been consulted in spite of the fact the reforms are going to be announced soon.
I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services why she is offering Taking Charge! clients, according to a story in the media, single parents, a top-up of $200 a month to work in the garment industry, why she would offer this kind of--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I am not sure where to start in answering this question except to say that we feel it is very important to focus our energies and our efforts into the future on trying to find work opportunity for as many Manitobans as possible. That includes single parents. We believe as a government, in fact, that a job and a job opportunity for single parents is much better than a career on welfare.
I make no apologies for the work that has gone in to date to the Taking Charge! initiative, the opportunity for single parents to train, to get on-the-job experience and a supplement so in fact they can become independent, self-sufficient, feel better about themselves and contribute in a positive way to our community and society.
Teenage Pregnancy
Pilot Project
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services why, since she knows according to Taking Charge! literature that Manitoba has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in Canada, has she asked the Children and Youth Secretariat to pilot a project in River East. Is it because they have the highest rate of teen pregnancy in Manitoba, or is it just coincidence that this is the minister's constituency?
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I make no apologies at all for broad consultation throughout the community, as I have in the north end of the city of Winnipeg with the Andrews Street Centre and many in the community that are doing extremely good work, and the new initiatives that we have supported at the Andrews Street Centre in the north end of Winnipeg, the Moms Helping Moms program where single parents are mentoring other single parents, where we have a drop-in centre with a community kitchen, where single parents are learning, indeed, to prepare nutritious meals to take home to their families.
I make no apologies for any consultation in any part of the province or the city of Winnipeg that deals with the issue of teen pregnancy and parenting and trying to ensure that young girls have the opportunity to learn that first and foremost their first responsibility is to parent their children, to nurture and to love their children.
No matter where that is in the city of Winnipeg, I am supportive of new initiatives to try to turn things around.
Manitoba Hydro
Brandon Control Centre Closure
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Energy, the minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro.
As the minister knows, Manitoba Hydro is seriously considering closing the Brandon control centre, which regulates and directs all the high voltage switching on power lines serving 95,000 customers in western Manitoba. Such a closure will mean the transfer of eight highly paid technical jobs to Winnipeg and, of course, have a negative impact on the Brandon economy.
I would ask the minister, in view of the government's stated policy of decentralization of government services, will the minister undertake to look into this and ensure that the Brandon control centre remains open?
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Madam Speaker, I will undertake to have a look at the matter that the member brings to Question Period today, but I must remind him that when you are operating an electrical utility with sales in the order of about a billion dollars a year in a world where technology is increasing in ever greater amounts in making available much better ways of running that particular system, I am sure that the member would not be suggesting that Hydro not proceed with updating and modernizing its equipment just in order to maintain old, outdated equipment that does not deliver the services necessary, but I will undertake to look into the matter for the member.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I appreciate the minister's effort because he should look into it. I do not believe there are any technical problems that would prevent the continuation of the control centre.
So the question really is, will the minister confirm that with modern communication technology, there should be no insurmountable technical problems preventing continued operation of this control centre in Brandon?
Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I certainly appreciate the concern of the member for Brandon East, which I know would be shared by the member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae), to ensure that the city of Brandon maintains as many positions as possible. I certainly appreciate that, particularly being a rural member.
But I must just tell the member, I will undertake to look at this particular issue, but the corporation does have a responsibility to ensure that it is using the most modern and efficient equipment with which to run a very large system. As we have seen over the years, new technology has meant often the consolidation of control systems for its operation.
I will give that undertaking, but we must remember that one of the driving forces behind a lot of change within the utility is modernization and efficiency and being up to date in technology.
Faneuil ISG Inc.
Financing
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): With this government on the verge of privatizing MTS, we are seeing some very interesting dealings, book deals, tuition fees and fancy financial footwork, and many unanswered questions.
I would like to ask a question today related to some of the financing of the Faneuil deal, in particular if the Deputy Premier can explain the Order-in-Council 649 which was issued in 1994, which authorized $28.5 million worth of transfer of MTS debentures to the Manitoba Trading Corporation as part of the Faneuil deal.
Can the Deputy Premier explain the full $28.5 million, since we have only had an explanation of $19 million of that thus far?
Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Madam Speaker, the member opposite is always ready to try and bring negative news to this House.
I think, given the opportunity to fully look at the complexity of the deal and, on the other side, look at the benefits that the people of Manitoba will receive from the agreements that have been entered into with Faneuil, with a thousand-plus jobs, with the revenues generated to the Manitoba Telephone System, and all the positives that the Faneuil deal brings to Manitoba--[interjection] Yes, $18 million in tax returned to the people.
When you assess all the benefits, Madam Speaker, I think the people of Manitoba, maybe not the opposition members who like to bring a lot of negatives to this House, will in fact see how many benefits the people of Manitoba have, and it is in the interests of Manitoba in job creation.
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Manitoba Telephone System
Right Associates Role
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): If the minister cannot answer that question, can the minister explain why MTS has hired a company known as Right Associates, appropriately named, a Philadelphia-based company which is based in the same office building as Faneuil, to provide counselling on relocation?
Can the minister explain why they were hired and how much money is being paid to this Philadelphia-based company to deal with the trauma being faced by the 46 MTS employees they have just laid off?
Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Telephone Act): As the Minister of I, T and T has mentioned, we get a thousand jobs here created for Manitobans.
The process of many months of due diligence was done on the agreement to be sure that all the angles were covered. EDB, I, T and T, MTS, Bell Canada have done all the scrutiny into the due diligence process. Six different firms were hired to be sure that the process of the agreement of some 140 agreements that were signed had the proper protections for Manitobans and creating the jobs.
Madam Speaker, it is an ongoing process to be sure that we do the best we can to bring jobs in that sector here in a highly competitive area.
Labatt Brewery
Employee Purchase Plan
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, after 42 years Labatt is abandoning its modern, profitable Winnipeg brewing operations, throwing 121 employees out of work.
My question is for the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism. Can the minister indicate what plans his department has to facilitate an employee purchase of the Labatt plant and equipment, and what action his department is prepared to take to prevent Labatt from having a scorched-earth policy with respect to this Winnipeg operation?
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): One has to be concerned about those who have been employed in the Labatt operation, and it is unfortunate that that kind of decision was in fact made.
Madam Speaker, we do not have the ability nor can we force anyone to sell to their employees or anyone else. It is my understanding that Labatt have made a decision, that it will be capacity that will be taken out of the system, and we can do nothing to force that. What we can do, and have done, is to make sure through the Department of Labour that there is an adjustment package which is in fact put in place to make sure those employees are dealt with fairly, and that is what our responsibility is. But as far as forcing an employee buy out, it is not able to be done.
An Honourable Member: Facilitating.
Mr. Downey: Well, Madam Speaker, if I am allowed to continue, they say facilitate. We would do what we can to facilitate it if that was a possibility, but I understand that is not a possibility.
Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.
Introduction of Guests
Madam Speaker: Prior to recognizing the members, I would like to draw the members' attention to the public gallery where we have with us an additional forty-five Grade 11 students from Teulon Collegiate under the direction of Mr. Reinsch and Mr. Loochuk. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer).
On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this morning.
NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS
Hanukkah
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, might I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Kildonan have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, on Monday begins the week-long celebration of Hanukkah. The lighting of the Menorah in observance of Hanukkah is a reaffirmation of the times of renewal, faith, friendships and family. It is a symbol of the faith and heritage of the Jewish people. The brightness of each flame reminds us of the triumph of good over evil, a theme shared and celebrated by many cultures.
So, on behalf of all members of the Chamber, I would like to wish a happy Hanukkah to all members of the Jewish community and to all members in Manitoba, and we will see you all at the Legislature, Madam Speaker, for the community-wide Hanukkah celebration which will be here on Saturday, December 23.
Willow Park East Housing Co-op
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): May I seek leave to make a nonpolitical statement?
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Burrows have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, I rise to congratulate Willow Park East Housing Co-op who celebrated their 25th anniversary with a dinner and dance on November 25, 1995. They do a wonderful job of providing decent, affordable housing and a sense of community. It is a great place to live and to raise children. Having lived there myself, I can vouch for that. It continues to be a good place to live and to raise children.
There are eight families who have been living there for the entire 25 years and continue to live there, and at the anniversary we had people attending from Calgary and Riverton, Manitoba.
I would also like to congratulate the manager, Pat Deans, for being an excellent manager and having been in that position for 16 years, and I would like to wish best wishes to Willow Park East Co-op for another 25 years.