Home Care Program
Privatization
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.
We have had an opportunity to review all the reports that the government tabled late last week, and, eventually, some of them on Friday. After reading all the studies and reports, after listening to Dr. Shapiro and others, after listening to the clients on Monday, for the life of me I cannot understand why the government is proceeding with the privatization plan and why it will not solve this issue that is now in dispute.
The only report that I have been able to read whose recommendations find itself into the Treasury Board document that we again tabled yesterday in the House are the recommendations that came from We Care in 1993.
I would like to ask the Premier: Is he satisfied that that is merely a coincidence in terms of the recommendations? Is he satisfied that there is no bias on the part of his Health minister in arriving at the Treasury Board document and the privatization plan that is so much in dispute with the public and clients here in Manitoba?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the only bias is in favour of the clients of home care.
The simple aspect of this is to ensure that the client will not be held hostage by people who want to have their grievances worked out in terms of their own needs and their own circumstances, as opposed to in terms of the needs of the client.
Madam Speaker, we will not have the clients, in future, being held hostage, being used as pawns in collective agreement disputes and all sorts of disputes about whether or not services could or should be rendered on the basis of the client's needs and the client's needs only. They are the assurances that we will be able to provide with the competition that we are introducing through this process into the provision of services, that clients will be able to get the services as they require them, when they require them, how they require them, seven days a week, 24 hours a day.
They are the assurances that we seek. They are the assurances that we will get as a result of this proposal that we are embarking on.
Privatization--Minister's Bias
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Premier never answered the question. Of course, I challenged the Premier last week to have a plebiscite and let the clients decide. Of course, the Premier will not let the clients decide because he knows what they will say.
Last week, the Minister of Labour (Mr. Toews) confirmed that he is on leave of absence from Great-West Life. Today, we have had it confirmed that Great-West Life is now moving into the home care insurance business.
Clients, workers and the public want to deal with a government that has no bias or no perception of bias. I would like to ask the Premier: Does he feel that there can be a perception of bias in light of these circumstances, and what action will he take to deal with this perception of bias?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, there could not possibly be a bias because we are not cutting services that would require them to seek insurance for this.
The fact of the matter is that was the policy that was proposed under the NDP-commissioned study by Price Waterhouse, that we in fact stop paying and providing for these services and require the clients to contract out for those services or to acquire insurance coverage for those services. That was the NDP's policy; that is not our policy. The taxpayer will continue to provide for these services, and so they will not be the services that are the subject of anything that Great-West Life is interested in.
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Privatization--Public Hearings
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Obviously the Premier has a different view of this than the Manitoba seniors who said that this privatization initiative of his government is the thin edge of the wedge to move to an American privatized health care system in Manitoba. Obviously, the seniors that built this province understand the stakes of this issue and the stakes of the biases of this government a lot more than this Premier.
I did table the letter from the Manitoba seniors. Obviously, members opposite did not have the courtesy to read it.
Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier, in light of the fact that there are no studies that the government tabled to validate their position on the privatization proposal, the ideological proposal that they have proceeded with, in light of the fact that the public, the patients and the workers are of one in calling on the government to provide reasonable leadership and to provide a one-year moratorium and public hearings, will the Premier today not agree that a one-year moratorium, as recommended by many client groups, and public hearings, as also recommended by the users, is a reasonable way to solve this difficulty?
Let us get the home care workers back working with the patients and let us let the people speak out in those public hearings.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, there are three aspects to home care. There are the nursing services, there are the home care support services and there are the home care attendant services. We are taking one of the three services--
An Honourable Member: Two of the three.
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Filmon: The strike that is involved here, Madam Speaker, involves the proposal that takes one of the three services and seeks to put out to competition approximately 25 percent of the services.
This has occasioned an absolute ideological, philosophical response, driven by members opposite and their union bosses, Madam Speaker, and has caused a withdrawal of services--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would once again request that all honourable members show common courtesy. I recognized one member and it is not a time for debate or disruption.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, what the issue is, is the blind ideology that drives the members opposite and the New Democratic Party to stand together with their union boss friends in opposition to guaranteeing the services to the clients of home care. That is reprehensible and the members opposite deserve the criticism they are continuing to get from people for their blind ideology.
Home Care Program
Privatization--Ministers' Bias
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, given the relationship that exists between the Minister of Labour (Mr. Toews) and Great-West Life, who are moving into the home care business, and given the relationship that exists between the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) and We Care Health Services that stand to make millions of dollars on the home care decision, does the Premier have confidence that either of these ministers should be either negotiating a potential settlement in this area and/or dealing with the issue of privatization, given the apparent bias that could exist in this matter?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I repeat, our only bias is in favour of those who require our services, who depend upon the services of government and who will be served by this government under any circumstances.
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Privatization--Insurance
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my question for the Premier is, has the Premier thought through the process and considered the implications that people now receiving home care could be forced in the future to purchase insurance for home care, and does that not suggest another reason why the government ought not to be privatizing home care?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, that could only happen if the New Democrats were in office and were going to implement the recommendations of the study that they commissioned by Price Waterhouse, because that is exactly what that study recommended. That is what we have rejected. Our proposal does not require people to have insurance. Those services are provided for and the costs of those services are provided for by the taxpayer, by the government, and we will maintain it in that form, unlike the New Democrats who, if they had followed the report that they were intending to by Price Waterhouse, would have forced people to have the insurance for it because government would no longer have provided it.
Crime Rate
Government Reduction Strategy
Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice.
In the election campaign that ended one year ago, the government made 36 promises on crime for implementation by the province.
My question is, given that we know of some announcement or action regarding three of these and since the minister is never shy about fanfare even when she has not done anything, whatever happened to the implementation of the other 33? I will table this.
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): This government's record in the area of dealing with keeping the citizens of Manitoba safe is, I believe, the strongest in this country. Our action has been and continues to be in the area of legislation, in the area of community development, community participation, in the area of services to victims, in the area of programs for youth and adults, and we continue to live up to our promises, Madam Speaker. I will be introducing in this House later this spring, in this session, legislation which deals with parental responsibility to put the victim back into the picture in the area of criminal activity.
Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister then explain why the government MLAs are admitting to their own constituents in a mailing this month, under the heading, Safer Streets, and then, Commitments Kept, that of the 36 election promises on crime, the government has only come through on one?
Mrs. Vodrey: I have to wonder, where have you been? Madam Speaker, the member has constantly missed the initiatives of this government. He has been nowhere to be found. He has been nowhere to be found on the Young Offenders Act, he has been nowhere to be found on the stalking initiatives, he has been nowhere to be found on community notification committees.
Madam Speaker, he even is quoted as having objected to the initiatives which this government has brought forward, in many cases the first in Canada, to keep the citizens of Manitoba safe. We will be living up to each and every one of our election promises. Some of them also require the assistance of the federal government. I will be meeting with the federal minister next week, and we will continue to make Manitoba a safe province. We will continue to put public safety and the interests of victims very high on our list.
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Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister, who I hope has implemented more of these promises, even without mentioning it to anyone, tell us--here we are with the highest violent crime rate--what is she waiting for?
Mrs. Vodrey: Again, I am just having the opportunity to look at what the member has finally tabled to me, and I see that he is speaking about some civil penalties. As he knows, this government has already embarked on a review of our whole civil justice system. That system will be looking at what happens in the family courts, what happens in the courts of general division.
Madam Speaker, we have an ever-increasingly good record, along with the community and the police, in terms of reducing property crime. We also are focusing very strongly on personal security, and will be introducing a number of initiatives that deal with personal security, actually within the next few weeks. So there are a great deal of very significant announcements to come.
But, Madam Speaker, what the member across has forgotten is that we do work with communities, we do work with police agencies, and that in dealing with the issue of crime in Manitoba and public safety, it requires an effort that requires all partners to take part--all have willingly.
Employment Creation
Government Strategy
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): I have a question for the Minister of Finance. Statistics Canada has recently released a document entitled Historical Labour Force Statistics, in which it is revealed, Madam Speaker, that whereas Manitoba gained 35,000 new jobs during the previous NDP government, we obtained only 14,000 jobs under the present Filmon administration.
Can the minister explain why the rate of job creation has fallen so drastically from 7.4 percent between '81 and '87 down to 2.8 percent during the term of this government?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, without accepting any of the preamble from the member for Brandon--
An Honourable Member: It is StatsCan.
Mr. Stefanson: As I was saying, without accepting any of the preamble--and I would point out to the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), it would not be the first time that, even from a document, misinformation is brought forward by some of his colleagues.
I want to point out to the member for Brandon East, in 1995 there were 10,000 new jobs created here in Manitoba, virtually all of those jobs created in the private sector; the last two months of 1996, 9,000 new jobs created in the province of Manitoba.
In fact, in 1995, Manitoba had amongst the best job growth in all of Canada, particularly in the private sector. I would remind him of organizations like the Conference Board of Canada that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) likes to refer to quite often. If you read their assessment of provinces today, you will find that they point to Manitoba's economy as steamrolling ahead and give us the highest marks in all of Canada.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Can the minister explain why, according to Statistics Canada's latest historical data, the rate of job creation in Manitoba has dropped from about four-fifths of the Canadian average during 1981-87 whereas we have now dropped to only one-third of the Canadian job creation rate average under this government? That is, why have we declined relative to the rest of this country in job creation according to this document by Stats Canada?
Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I would remind the member for Brandon East that Manitoba today has the second lowest unemployment rate in all of Canada. We had the second highest growth in gross domestic product in 1995 here in Manitoba. We are projected to have the second highest growth again in 1996 here in Manitoba.
He is well aware of the list of private sector announcements that have been made over the last six or seven months. In fact, some of them are in the part of the province where he happens to represent, companies like Simplot, McCain, Canadian Agra, Repap and so on, showing confidence here in our province. In fact, in the last six or seven months there have been a billion dollars of announcements.
Madam Speaker, the economy here in our province is performing amongst the best in all of Canada, and that is because of the positive economic climate that exists here in our province. I would encourage the member for Brandon East to get out and talk to individual Manitobans, talk to individual entrepreneurs, talk to businesses, talk to business organizations, and he will find out first-hand, if he takes the time to do that, that they see Manitoba as an excellent place to do business.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Madam Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity, in asking my supplementary, to table a document based on these figures, for the edification of all members of the House in charts that everyone can understand--35,000 under the previous government, 14,000 at best under this government.
My last question: Will the minister acknowledge that the claim of 32,000 new jobs being created under the Filmon government, as contained in this recent Conservative pamphlet called Manitoba Strong, is simply not true and cannot be substantiated by employment data published by Statistics Canada, and will he see to it that a correction is sent out to the people of Manitoba?
Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, no, I will not acknowledge that whatsoever, and I reiterate that, based on the quality of some of the financial information and economic data that I have received from members opposite, it has been sorely lacking. I had an example of that last week for the question from the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) that I was approached on subsequently again, and the information was wrong, as is usually and consistently the pattern.
Manitobans are proud of the economy. We are seeing it in jobs, we are seeing it in job creation, second lowest unemployment rate in Canada, lowest youth unemployment rate in all of Canada, 10,000 new jobs here in Manitoba last year, all in the private sector. All Manitobans are proud of this province, can compete in this province. The only people that are out of step with what is happening in our province sit right there, and I think they should start talking to Manitobans and find out just what is happening here in our province.
Education System
Staffing Reduction
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): Madam Speaker, my question is for the First Minister. One of the responses to this government's 2 percent cut to public education is to lay off the 27 first-year school teachers in Winnipeg School Division No. 1. Those 27 teachers, along with the approximately 600 students from Manitoba's faculty of education who will be graduating this spring, will all be looking for jobs as teachers in this province, where the minister's public education system is downsizing.
Does the First Minister have any advice to offer those young adults who have chosen teaching as a career as to what opportunities they will have in this government's education system?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, this government transfers money to school divisions and expects school divisions to take responsibility for their actions. They get together with their staff and they work out the best alternatives for the use of the money that they have within their system. I know that there are many answers. There is not only just one answer to every challenge that is faced, and the members of the various collective bargaining units of the city of Winnipeg School Division No.1 could well have gotten together and found a solution that might have not required the layoff or the reduction of 27 positions. That is a choice they made with their leadership and with their decisions, and certainly those are choices that they will have to take the responsibility for.
Teaching Opportunities
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): Can the First Minister do anything to send a message to those Manitoba high school students who are considering teaching as a career that there is a future for them in Manitoba's public school system?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, my experience is that there continue to be opportunities for those who enter the teaching profession, that those opportunities will attract quality people who care about children and who want to go and do education, and those opportunities will continue to be available. There is a turnover each and every year of a substantial number of people as retirements take place, as people move throughout their professions, and those opportunities will continue to be there for those who choose the profession of teaching.
Mr. Kowalski: Will the First Minister advise Manitoba's three universities then to limit the enrollment of prospective teachers until this government renews its commitment to public education in Manitoba?
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, no, I would not give that advice.
Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism
Departmental Review
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, last week I asked the Minister of I, T and T about a study done by Price Waterhouse of his department. I want to ask the same minister if there have been any other studies done by external agencies or groups of the effectiveness or functioning of I, T and T during the period 1992 to 1995, the dates and costs of those studies.
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Not that I am aware of, but I will take as notice and check for the member.
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Employee Morale
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Will the minister admit today that morale in his department is at an all-time low, that communication patterns are very poor, and that the overall effectiveness of his department is extremely questionable?
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): No, I will not, but I will elaborate a little bit as to what is in fact taking place within the economic activities with the province of Manitoba.
We have seen a record investment by the private sector, particularly in the province of Manitoba. Collectively, we have seen over a $4-billion investment. We have seen over $l billion in the last few months, particularly as it relates to food and fibre processing in Manitoba. There are many signs of very productive activities. In fact, in the Brandon East riding alone, where Simplot is constructing an additional $230-some-million addition to their plant, there will be some 800 jobs this summer.
Madam Speaker, the morale in our department flows with the economy. The morale may have been down at some time in the past, but it is very much improved and will continue to do so.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister today take responsibility for the fact that his own staff is saying that the allocation of resources, that promotions, that recognition, is perceived by the staff of his department to be uninformed, arbitrary and highly political? Will he take responsibility for that?
Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, I am extremely disappointed that the member would accuse me, of all people, of doing anything politically within my department.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): So how many hacks have you employed in your department?
Mr. Downey: The member for Thompson asks about hacks in my department. The last time I checked, the last two that were really high profile I think were Terry Sargeant and Phil Eyler, and they certainly were not associated with this government.
Independent Loggers
Allocation of Permits
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): When the Louisiana-Pacific agreement was announced, the independent loggers raised concerns about getting enough wood to run their sawmills. [interjection]
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Ms. Wowchuk: When the Louisiana-Pacific deal was announced, the independent loggers raised concerns about their wood allocation. The minister announced that 50,000 cubic metres of hardwood would be set aside for the independent loggers. However, to date, even though two proposals have been put forward by regional staff, the government has still not made a decision on the allocation.
Can the Minister of Natural Resources tell this House why he continues to delay making this decision which is so important to the loggers in the Swan River area?
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): The short answer would be because I am not quite ready to make that decision. The reason I am not quite ready to make that decision, keeping in mind the requirements of the small operators in that area, is that until we see how things settle out with Louisiana-Pacific and their contracts, I do not want to make any moves that would jeopardize that.
I have the interests of the small loggers very much in mind, and I have to assure members here in the House that the small operators have all got the required amount of wood that they want to cut. We will continue to do that until we finally are able to make that decision in terms of the allocation of the wood requirements of the smaller operators.
Ms. Wowchuk: Can the minister tell this House then, even though this allocation of permits is causing a lot of difficulty for all of the people that are working in the bush, including Louisiana-Pacific, Repap and others, is the minister saying that this system is going to continue in the new logging year after May 1 and permits will continue to be issued?
Mr. Driedger: May 1 is just shortly around the corner, and I have not made the decision in terms of how we will do the allocation. So, yes, there will be permits available again after May 1 until we finally get this thing sorted out and make the right decision.
Ms. Wowchuk: Since this is a very important issue to the independent loggers and all the users of the resource, will the Premier (Mr. Filmon) ensure that this issue is resolved before any decision is made on issuing the Louisiana-Pacific forest management licence?
Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, I anticipate that somewhere along the line the decision is going to be completed and a licence possibly will be issued to Louisiana-Pacific. It is for that reason, until that happens, and then we see exactly how the activities are going to sort out with the wood requirements of Louisiana-Pacific, there is no urgency at this point in time other than some concern that the loggers have. We have assured them, and I will again assure them that they will be able to get their permits to cut the wood that they require.
Public Housing
Federal Funding Reductions
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): We have raised before the unfairness of this government working with the federal Liberals to raise the rents in public housing. I am concerned that this budget again has a reduction in funding to the Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation.
I want to ask the Minister of Housing if the rent increase to 27 percent of rent geared to income is covering the costs for the reductions from the federal government for public housing.
Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): I want to thank the member for Radisson for that question because, as mentioned by her, the federal government has initiated conversation and talks regarding the offloading of their housing responsibilities onto the province. We in the province have not taken a position on that. We are very, very concerned with the impact, not only on the housing stock and the availability of housing here in Manitoba, and it is something that is under consideration right now, but no decision has been made as to what type of direction will be made with the federal proposal.
Ms. Cerilli: A supplementary question for the minister: Has this government realized that rent increases for public housing are really balancing the budgets on the backs of those least able to pay, or will they again be raising the rents for public housing this year?
Mr. Reimer: The member is referring to the fact that the federal government has initiated and is recommending that the RGI, or the rent geared to income level be raised to 30 percent as they are doing in their jurisdiction. We are in the process of evaluating all types of rent geared to income in not only what the federal government is recommending but also looking at what is happening right across Canada with the housing.
Ms. Cerilli: I want to ask the minister to clarify, will the government be raising the rents for public housing in Manitoba this year, given that a letter that I have from the federal minister indicates that the rent geared to income set by the federal government is at 25 percent, not 27 percent, as it is in Manitoba?
Mr. Reimer: The 25 percent that the member is referring to is the level that we also have in place right now for bachelor units. Bachelor units are rented for 25 percent of RGI. The present formula is also 27 percent for units of one bedroom or larger, so that we are of the same mind that she has just mentioned with the 25 percent regarding the bachelor units here in Manitoba.
Winnipeg Art Gallery
Board Appointments
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, after assuring the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship that I have indeed read The Globe and Mail article of which he is so proud and which is mostly on performing arts, I want to return to the Winnipeg Art Gallery and questions left unanswered earlier this week.
Will the minister confirm that despite staff layoffs, public quarrels with the Manitoba Arts Council and the arts community, the revenue-draining reality of a closed restaurant, and despite the fact that the Winnipeg Art Gallery receives millions of dollars in public money funnelled into both its operational and capital budgets, the minister has appointed only one out of three government members, thus compromising public accountability?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): I am encouraged that the member has read the article. I would suggest she try and understand it. Perhaps if she attended some of the events and met with some of the groups within the arts community she would have a better understanding of the vibrant community that we have. Certainly we have given tremendous financial support to the Winnipeg Art Gallery. From time to time they go through issues with staffing, and other issues. There are in excess of 25 members on that board, and I am sure that as they work their way through some of their difficulties, they will make the appropriate decisions.
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Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I think my reputation with the arts community is at least as strong as that of the minister, and I could take it beyond the arts community, but--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Osborne was recognized for a supplementary question.
Ms. McGifford: Will the minister today tell the House when he plans to make these appointments and so personally keep abreast of the expenditures of public money and the cultural climate in Manitoba?
Mr. Gilleshammer: I would point out to the honourable member again that this board is composed of members elected at the annual meetings. There are also appointments made by other levels of government. From time to time we do have resignations and those appointments will be made at the appropriate time.
Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, for one very short question.
Provincial Parks
Seasonal Camping Fees
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, the government has raised seasonal camping fees by as much as 100 percent. In the case of Paint Lake in northern Manitoba--and I do not know why we got hit with 100 percent increase--the number of seasonal camping applications this year is 38 compared to 87 last year. That means that the government has fewer than half the applications and is actually going to even lose money and have the camp sit there half empty.
I would like to ask the Minister of Natural Resources, will he reconsider the 100 percent increase and come up with some sort of fee increase that is more reasonable and allow our campers to use the facility this year?
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, first of all, we want Manitobans to enjoy our parks and campgrounds. I have asked my staff to basically get me an update as to the applications made in all the provincial parks in the seasonal sites based on the increase that took place.
But I have to tell you that in the Paint Lake area, where we increased fees substantively, in that particular case we had people, where we supplied the wood, that hauled half-tons full of wood out of the park to use in their homes. We are trying to adjust some of these things so that we can put fairness in there so that all Manitobans are going to be treated fairly and equitably.
Madam Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired.