Health Care System
Emergency Services
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).
Madam Speaker, yesterday we tabled in the House the guidelines from the College of Physicians and Surgeons dealing with the requirement of having physicians at suburban hospitals with a certain volume, a volume that obviously meets the criteria of the community hospitals emergency ward closing of this government.
I would like to ask the Premier, why did he approve the closure of community-based hospital emergency wards in the evening, contrary to the guidelines of the College of Physicians and Surgeons?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member needs to be aware that physicians are available at community hospitals at night. In addition, the honourable member needs to be aware that there are nurses available at the hospitals at night.
We will be seeking from community hospitals information about life-threatening situations that present during closing hours so that we can ensure we can--
An Honourable Member: After the fact.
Mr. McCrae: It is not after the fact. The honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) talks about after the fact. Madam Speaker, during the duration of the strike which we had asked not happen for several months so that we could work together with the various facilities and parties involved to build an integrated emergency services system, we were not able to have that luxury. The physicians walked off the job and we had to build a contingency plan, and we did that. As we are in the process of the reopening of emergency services in the wake of the strike, we will look very carefully at every aspect of the performance of emergency services.
Madam Speaker, in our hospitals there are nurses there, nursing professionals who are prepared and there to greet people who come to emergency rooms at night who may not be aware of the closure. They arrive at the emergency room and nursing professionals are qualified to make suggestions and decisions about what actions might flow from that visit.
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Mr. Doer: That is 14 questions I have asked the Premier (Mr. Filmon) about his decision to close down our emergency wards in our community hospitals, and the Premier chooses not to answer the questions because he is so embarrassed about the decision his government has made to close down those community hospitals.
I would like to ask the Premier, I would like to ask the First Minister, the person in charge of that government allegedly over there, why the government has decided to close down the emergency wards at community hospitals, and did they consider the College of Physicians and Surgeons guidelines on patient transfers for code 4 or emergency transfers of patients from one hospital to the other, which contradicted the last answer of the Minister of Health?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, as the Leader of the Opposition has asked his questions to do specifically with the details of the operations of health in this province, I have assumed that he was intelligent enough to understand that those matters come under the jurisdiction and the guidance of the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae). Having overestimated his intelligence, I will just tell him that that is a matter that is directly under the control and jurisdiction of the Minister of Health and he ought to ask that question of the Minister of Health, that is if he really wants an answer to the question rather than just playing political games here in this Legislature.
Mr. Doer: I noticed the Premier is taking the high road in defending his decisions again today, and I guess we all underestimated his compassionate integrity in keeping his election promises not to cut back on any health care services after the election.
I would like to ask the Premier, when this decision was made by him as head of government, when it was made by him to close the emergency wards in community hospitals, did he consider the guidelines dealing with patient transportation from emergency wards in other health care facilities as part of the decision to close those hospital wards?
Obviously, if you have less doctors working in the evening, you cannot fulfill the guidelines in transportation of patients which require a physician to be in the ambulance in certain critical lifesaving situations. Did the Premier consider that or does he not care about the life and limbs of citizens of Manitoba, Madam Speaker?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member should be reminded again. We asked specifically the emergency physicians not to abandon the patients in the city of Winnipeg in community hospitals. However, it is a responsible thing to do to ensure that a contingency plan is available should that request be ignored, which it was.
There was a meeting with Manitoba Health and with the representatives of Winnipeg hospitals on July 26 of this year at which the Manitoba College of Physicians and Surgeons was represented. At that time, the contingency plan for the operation of Winnipeg emergency departments for a strike that was hoped would not happen, that meeting was held.
Madam Speaker, the honourable Leader of the Opposition should also be aware that the current integrated emergency services task force or steering committee that is at work in response to Mr. Chapman's mediation report recommendation, the College of Physicians and Surgeons will be part of that development of the integrated emergency services policy.
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Public Health
Laboratory Testing
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, public health and the testing for diseases, particularly matters like hamburger disease which can be fatal to adults and children, is an area of public health where Manitobans expect and deserve first-class, high-quality service.
Can the minister explain why we have lost the capacity, as a result of this government's cuts and decisions, to test for a number of diseases including E-coli bacteria and why we no longer have the capacity to test in advance for these kinds of diseases, and will the minister explain this government's decision?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, we have not lost the capacity the honourable member refers to. When testing moved to the Environmental Sciences Centre, testing food for verotoxin-producing E-coli strains, other than E-coli O157:H7, terminated. These types of E-coli in food causing health problems were studied as part of a research project and were not a routine part of public health practice.
What the member is talking about, Madam Speaker, is the end of a research project. If the honourable member was on top of things around here, he would have known that. However, the capacity to test food for the most common source of verotoxin E-coli type O157:H7 has remained.
Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I will accept the word of a scientist before the minister anytime.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Kildonan was recognized for a supplementary question, not postamble.
Mr. Chomiak: Can the minister explain to the public of Manitoba what effect this government's policy to charge municipalities and other end users for the use of testing and facilities and the cost, what effect that will have and what studies he has? Will he table the studies he has that will show what effect that will have on public health in Manitoba and whether or not it will affect the number of tests and the amount of testing?
Point of Order
Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, I as the House leader and members of my caucus have been relatively patient over the past few weeks when accepting the questions from the members opposite.
The fact of the matter is, though, Madam Speaker, you can only put one question at a time. Constantly, they put one, two, three and four questions at a time. I would ask for your ruling.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order, the government House leader, indeed, does have a point of order.
Beauchesne's 409 states--the honourable member for Kildonan, on the same point of order.
Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I believe in the context of asking a question, it is appropriate in the context of one question to frame it in such a way that it deals with all contingencies as they relate to the particular policy.
This is a policy decision and I asked what the effects of this policy decision would have on a number of areas of public health.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Kildonan does not have a point of order. The honourable member for Kildonan was clearly disputing the point of order raised by the government House leader.
On the government House leader's point of order, indeed, he has a point of order. A question is to be a single question, not a multiple question.
The honourable opposition Leader, on the same point of order or on a new point of order?
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): On the same point of order, Madam Speaker. If the member--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I have already ruled on the point of order.
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Mr. Doer: A new point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, I would invite you to read Hansard and read the question that dealt with, what is the impact of a certain government policy on x, y and z? That is one question on the impact with multiple effects on the public of Manitoba. It is our job to ask about those impacts, and we have the right to do that in this Legislature.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I had ruled on the point of order by the government House leader, and I maintain the ruling that questions are to contain a single question, not multiple questions. I thank all honourable members for their advice.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Yes, with due respect, Madam Speaker, I challenge your ruling.
Voice Vote
Madam Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been challenged. All those in favour of sustaining the ruling of the Chair, please say yea.
Some Honourable Members: Yea.
Madam Speaker: All those opposed, please say nay.
Some Honourable Members: Nay.
Madam Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it.
Formal Vote
Mr. Ashton: Yes, Yeas and Nays, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: A formal vote has been requested. Call in the members.
The question before the House is shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained.
Division
A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows:
Yeas
Cummings, Derkach, Downey, Driedger, Dyck, Enns, Ernst, Filmon, Findlay, Gaudry, Gilleshammer, Helwer, Lamoureux, Laurendeau, McAlpine, McCrae, McIntosh, Mitchelson, Newman, Pallister, Penner, Pitura, Praznik, Radcliffe, Reimer, Render, Stefanson, Sveinson, Toews, Tweed, Vodrey.
Nays
Ashton, Barrett, Cerilli, Chomiak, Dewar, Doer, Evans (Brandon East), Evans (Interlake), Friesen, Hickes, Jennissen, Lathlin, Mackintosh, Maloway, McGifford, Mihychuk, Reid, Robinson, Sale, Santos, Struthers, Wowchuk.
Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): Yeas 31, Nays 22.
Madam Speaker: The ruling of the Chair is accordingly sustained.
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Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, can the minister explain what effect the government policy with respect to charging the municipalities and other end users for the costs of testing and other services will have on the public of Manitoba, those end users, municipalities and all those affected by the public health system?
Mr. McCrae: Well, it is nice, Madam Speaker, to be given the opportunity to answer a question that was asked some time ago.
The honourable member would be interested to know if he does not already that this testing we are talking about is a mandated thing. It is a legislated thing. It has to be done to protect the health of Manitobans. So a question of how it gets paid for really does not have that much to do, if anything at all, with the outcome, the outcome being safe water supplies, safe food supplies and so on. That being the requirement in legislation, that is what will be done.
Mr. Chomiak: My final supplementary to the minister: Can the minister assure this House that no Manitobans, no end users, no members of the public will be put at risk or harm as a result of this government's policy to charge end users for these kinds of tests and, in addition, as a result of its policy not to do preventative testing in this area?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, inasmuch as these tests are not optional--they are mandatory, they are necessary--they will be done.
The honourable member raises this somehow as having some impact on the health of the population. That is not the case. The health of the population inasmuch as it is protected by this testing will continue to be protected by this testing.
Eating Disorders
Out-of-Province Treatment
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).
On September 20 in this House I asked the Premier if he would give his personal commitment to work for the life of Jamie Woodhouse and send her to Montreaux Clinic in Victoria.
Today I want to table a letter from the Binscarth and District Lions Club to the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach) in which the Lions, who have raised $75,000 for Jamie, lament that she is back in the Brandon Mental Health Centre, lament the fact that the Minister of Rural Development appears not to have honoured his commitment to take their concerns to his government colleagues and which indicates that every day may mean the difference between life and death to Jamie.
My first question for the Premier: Can the Premier outline exactly what steps have been taken to save Jamie other than a step backwards which took her once again to the Brandon Mental Health Centre?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach), the Minister of Rural Development, and I and the Woodhouse family and the doctor and the community and the Health Sciences Centre and many Manitobans have been working very hard on almost a daily basis making contacts with each other to ensure that Jamie's condition and Jamie's future is what comes first for all of us.
We have worked very closely with the Health Sciences Centre to ensure that the family was aware of what services were available at the Health Sciences Centre. Indeed, the family has been in to visit the facility there, and we continue to work closely with that family.
I might add, Madam Speaker, the work of the honourable member for Roblin-Russell in this situation has been the most profound kind of sensitivity that I have seen to a local constituency matter that has arisen. I want to pay tribute to my colleague for that and also to the doctor and everyone who is involved in assisting in bringing this matter to a successful resolution.
It is a very, very difficult issue, Madam Speaker, and all we want to do is to ensure that we all have a look at a made-in-Manitoba solution that can work for Jamie, and without ruling out any assistance that might be available, the fact is, what is the best thing we can put together here in Manitoba. We have found that the main aspects of the treatment that are being talked about are available here in Manitoba.
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Ms. McGifford: Since the made-in-Manitoba system is not working to save the life of Jamie, would the Premier (Mr. Filmon) now prove himself to be a man of his word and commence working with the Binscarth Lions Club to provide cost-sharing, lifesaving treatment for Jamie Woodhouse?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I hope the honourable member would understand the nature of this situation facing the Woodhouse family and Jamie in particular. It is not all one way or another way; it is not a simple matter. Any player in this piece can tell you that these issues--[interjection]
Anybody can tell you that the issues involved with this particular disease are extremely complicated and frustrating for everybody involved, right from people on this side of the House on, including honourable members opposite.
I would ask the honourable member to look further into the whole problem with respect to anorexia nervosa. She will understand if she does that, that the issues are not simple and they are not simply resolved either.
University of Manitoba
Labour Negotiations
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) refused to show any leadership in resolving the University of Manitoba negotiations dispute.
This same minister's government directly intervened in the 1994 sugar beet negotiations and imposed Bill 22 on public sector negotiations including teachers. Final offer selection could have been used as a tool had this government not killed this legislation.
My question is for the Minister of Labour.
Can the Minister of Labour advise, considering that the strike deadline is midnight tonight, what progress his chief conciliator Mr. Davage has made in resolving this dispute after 10 months of negotiations?--since this minister himself has not even been involved and should have been from the beginning.
Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Labour): Madam Speaker, I do not think it is an appropriate time for the government to interfere in free collective bargaining, and that is the position that this government is taking at this time.
Mr. Reid: Will then the Minister of Labour ask both of the parties involved in the U of M dispute to accept voluntary binding arbitration to allow the students to continue their education and to allow the negotiations to proceed utilizing the arbitration process? Will the minister contact the parties?
Mr. Toews: We will consider any requests that come from the parties, but we would encourage the parties to continue bargaining because we believe that free collective bargaining under the structure of The Labour Relations Act is the most appropriate way in achieving a lasting and meaningful labour peace.
Mr. Reid: Since the Minister of Labour refuses to be involved, will the Minister of Education then take a leadership role now--hopefully this time--and detail what plans or provisions her department has in place to refund the course tuition fees to the students in the event that a strike should occur at midnight tonight? What steps is she prepared to take?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I think the members opposite have already been told and understand that while negotiations are still ongoing, as they currently are, it is not only inappropriate but also counterproductive for ministers of the Crown to be saying or doing anything that could be seen to jeopardize those very sensitive last-minute talks which are currently taking place as we speak.
The member knows, or should know because yesterday there was a press conference held by the university, that the university administration has indicated they are considering those very factors that he has mentioned in terms of refunds if necessary, in terms of placement for students and ongoing work at the university.
Rural Stress Line
Government Commitment
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, the rural stress line, which is unanimously supported by all farm organizations in support as well as financial support, is an excellent preventative health care service that brings services to rural Manitoba. Unfortunately, the stress line is going to be cut because this government will not put its money where its mouth is.
I want to ask the Minister of Health why on June 28 he said, this new line is an important expansion to community mental health services in rural Manitoba and will complement mental health reform initiatives being put in place.
Why did he say that and now cannot put the money in place to see that the line survives?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the Department of Health partnered with the Canadian Mental Health Association and the pools and all of the people involved in the rural stress line. That was done on a very clear understanding that our contribution was of a start-up nature, a once-only, and it was very clearly understood as well.
Madam Speaker, as the Canadian Mental Health Association works toward keeping that stress line going, we have asked that they engage in discussions with the provincial Mental Health Council and with the Association of Women's Shelters that have expressed some concerns. I would hope the honourable member would be aware of those concerns, too, before we go jumping too quickly to the conclusions that she seems to have arrived at.
We have asked that the Canadian Mental Health Association work with the women's shelter association and also work with the Department of Family Services in doing an inventory of all the various stress lines that are available. We certainly agree with the honourable member about the need for services but getting it right is important, too.
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Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, since the members of the advisory committee for the rural stress line have worked very hard to bring the services to rural Manitoba but are not getting any answers from the minister, will the minister agree to meet with this committee and share the results of the survey that he took on all stress line services so they will understand where he is coming from?
Mr. McCrae: Well, we want to know the outcome of discussions between the Canadian Mental Health Association and the Manitoba Mental Health Council in resolving some of the issues between those organizations.
I also invite the honourable member to have a discussion with Waltraud Grieger, for example, of the women's shelter association to discuss some of the concerns that they have. If the honourable member for Swan River just wants to dismiss those concerns as not counting in all of this, well, let her say so. The fact is those were legitimate concerns raised and we are going to see if we cannot resolve those.
Ms. Wowchuk: Since the Minister of Health will not recognize the need for services in rural Manitoba with the stress line, I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture and other rural members of this caucus if they will recognize the need for the rural stress line and lobby the Minister of Health to ensure that that service is there so we have equality in rural Manitoba.
Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I wish to advise the honourable member for Swan River that my office has not received a single call from any farmer, from any person in rural Manitoba requesting the ongoing service of this line.
Misericordia General Hospital
Bed Closures
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.
Today at the Misericordia Hospital there are some 278 health care beds. I have been led to believe that that number is going to be reduced to approximately 224 health care beds. That is an estimate of approximately a 20 percent decrease in beds, Madam Speaker.
My question to the Minister of Health is, does the Minister of Health have plans that he can share with members of this Chamber and the public dealing with the number of beds that are being closed throughout the province of Manitoba in our health care system?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): As services have become more available in the community, the hospitals have also responded to the challenges imposed on us by the honourable member's colleagues in Ottawa when it comes to the removal of $220 million from Manitoba's social network.
I would like very much for the honourable member to inform himself of all of the various developments that are taking place, not only in response to what is being forced upon us by his colleagues in Ottawa, Madam Speaker, but by the need to make changes to deliver health services better than we have in the past and more effectively, more efficiently. The taxpayer for whom the member and I both work demands nothing less.
Health Care System Reform
Government Strategy
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, part of this reform includes two registered nurses serving 50 patients.
My question to the minister is, at this particular hospital what can we expect to see when you reduce the number of registered nurses for patients to 50? Are we going to see additional LPNs, nurses aides to complement or to assist the registered nurses? Does this government have a plan in this area?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member's predecessor as Health critic, Dr. Gulzar Cheema, made a very important statement one time in this House when he said that one of the most important things we have done was to set up the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation.
Madam Speaker, every activity in health reform has been under some kind of a scrutiny with respect to evidence-based decisions being required, so that as we proceed, we do it on the basis of evidence that it is safe and appropriate to do so and will result in a better health outcome.
Madam Speaker, reports to date have been either neutral or satisfactory or above that level, and, also, unlike the response in some other provinces which appears fairly revolutionary in response to the challenges imposed on us by Ottawa, in Manitoba we are taking a much more evolutionary approach. It is being done over a period of time so that there is time to monitor and evaluate decisions that are made.
Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, will the minister prepare for this House a complete report on the proposed changes to health care services, including guidelines for staffing ratios and the total number of bed closures in Winnipeg's five community hospitals?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, that kind of information has been available for a long time, and all the honourable member had to do was ask for it during the Estimates process or whatever.
In any event, I will take note of the question today and will get something off to the honourable member in response.
Tourism
Provincial Comparisons
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the government and the minister responsible for Tourism have continued to try and convince Manitobans that their efforts on tourism are paying off, but the 15,000 Manitobans and more who work directly in the tourism industry know differently.
Will the minister agree that Manitoba is now ninth out of 10 in nonresident trips this year over last year and 10th out of 10 in their years in government in tourism growth, the worst in Canada?
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): No, Madam Speaker.
Government Initiatives
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, I would like to table the information pursuant to the question that I asked previously, for the minister's information and edification.
Madam Speaker, will the minister acknowledge that in the month of July, immediately following several badly handled pepper spray incidents, Manitoba's tourism from the United States fell in that one month by over 11 percent? Will the government, then, finally take some action to restore Manitoba's image as a friendly province?
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, last year Manitoba saw over a 10 percent increase in tourist traffic from the United States, which was very positive for the people of Manitoba supporting the tourism industry and the job creation.
This year, there were several incidents, of which there were pepper spray seizures and people trying to bring pepper spray into the province. We have written, we have asked the federal government to clarify as to whether or not the policy is consistent across Canada as it relates to the importation or the movement of such a product coming into this country.
I would wonder, Madam Speaker, if it is the opposition's position that we should lessen as it relates to illegal product coming into the province of Manitoba, as it relates to drugs.
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Education System
Language Arts Examination
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Education.
For the last month trustees and parents across the province have raised concerns with the minister about the impact on students of the province's Senior 4 English language arts exams, which require the removal of 250 senior teachers from their schools for 12 instructional days.
During the election and since, the government has resisted many requests to reveal the costs of this plan. I want to ask the minister today to tell us how much this is going to cost and how those costs are to be apportioned between the province and the school divisions.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I would first like to correct the preamble.
Unless the member is reading mail that I have not received that comes to my office, I have not been inundated with letters and queries or whatever from parents and educators on that topic as she states categorically that I have been. I would invite her to show me copies of those letters. I have had one query from the teachers. Some school boards have indicated, in response to the request to release teachers for this purpose, that they cannot release the number that we have indicated from their division, but not in the manner that the member implies.
We will be having all our tests marked. We will be using accredited markers to mark those tests. I do not have the exact amount. I will take that aspect of the question as notice. We will be proceeding with testing, and those measurable standards will be accurately marked by qualified people.
Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, can the minister explain to the House and to parents what the educational impact will be of the loss of the classroom teachers for 12 instructional days during the school year? We are not just talking here about Grade 12. We are talking Grades 9, 10 and 11.
Mrs. McIntosh: Again, Madam Speaker, the member makes an assumption in her question that students will be losing instructional time. I would submit that that is an assumption she makes that I will not verify or confirm for her because students will not be losing instructional time as a result of their examinations being marked.
Education Facilities
Energy Conservation
Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education.
Given that many of Manitoba's public schools still have single-pane wood windows requiring installation seasonally, both in the fall and in the spring, adding significant costs to those school divisions and to the public and raising concerns about workplace safety during installation and removal, and given that Manitoba is a leader in the development and the manufacturing of high-efficiency windows, windows that can cut energy costs by up to two-thirds, will the Minister of Education re-establish funding for the replacement of seriously deteriorated nonefficient windows under the capital support program, a made-for-Manitoba windows '95 program for the schools across the province as requested by MAST time and time again?
An Honourable Member: An open-window government.
An Honourable Member: Fresh air.
An Honourable Member: What a pane.
An Honourable Member: I shutter to think.
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, there are a lot of very good puns going around that I do not think are hitting Hansard.
Madam Speaker, again, none of those letters have come to me directly as minister. If those expressions of concern are being made at the departmental level through officials, I will be pleased to look for them. I know we certainly encourage energy conservation. Many divisions have embarked upon energy conser--Pardon me. [interjection] Pardon me.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Education, to quickly complete her response.
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen), who interjects across the floor, absolutely knows that in every department you have officials and particularly in departments with budgets of $1 billion, not every detail of every aspect will be coming to the minister's desk. That is why we have the staff that we do, competent staff to make decisions.
I will certainly take this question as notice from the member, because we do encourage and support energy conservation. Many divisions embarked upon some excellent energy conservation measures, and I thoroughly applaud them for the initiatives in that regard.
Energy Audit Program
Reinstatement
Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Energy and Mines.
Will the minister of energy management reinstate the energy audit program of public buildings, a program this Conservative government promised would be expanded, a program that would establish long-term savings to Manitoban taxpayers when using high-efficiency windows and sensible planning is used on their behalf? Will you reinstate the program?
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Energy and Mines): Madam Speaker, I can assure the member that we in this government are always very concerned about opportunities to save money when one does the calculation on capital investment. I am sure my colleague the Minister of Government Services (Mr. Pallister) and his staff who administer public buildings in this province are always cognizant of these issues and work them into their regular planning.
I can say to the honourable member that to have a particular program or not to have a program really evades the issue. The issue is how does one fit that into the regular work that is done on maintaining public buildings. The same applies to school divisions.
Fishing Industry
Boundary Restrictions
Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, last week the desperate plight of north basin fishermen was evident here at the Legislature. Their frustration with this minister and his department has resulted in wasted fish, unfair treatment and economic hardship.
Since these fishermen are hamstrung by this government to fish in only small areas, will the minister temporarily remove boundary restrictions on north basin fishermen so that they can fish pickerel and sauger grounds in the north basin this fall?
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, some time ago, I met with representatives from Lake Winnipeg who had various requests of me, one of them being changing the boundaries. I replied to them and said that I would not change the boundaries at this time until a total review was done.
I think it would be irresponsible to make ad hoc decisions in terms of boundary changes. I will be moving forward with the third-party consultation process, and when that is done, they will be making recommendations to myself, and we will deal with the matter at that time.
Regulations Review
Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, instead of using the review as an excuse for inaction, will this minister table the names of these persons involved with this third-party review?
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, we are in the final stages of getting the approval, and the moment that is done I will table the information.
Solid Waste Management
Government Initiatives
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Environment.
The CEC was very clear in one of the recommendations stating that this particular government has not taken the lead role on addressing solid waste, and my question to the minister is, is this government prepared to take that lead role in waste management and to try to resolve the issue between the City of Winnipeg and BFI, in particular?
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, I would indicate that for some time we have been conscious of the fact that the City of Winnipeg and the surrounding municipalities have an opportunity to work together and restructure their solid waste management systems.
I think that there has been some significant progress in that area, and I do not see the present application in front of the Clean Environment Commission as being necessarily incompatible with a future plan being developed.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.
Speaker's Rulings
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I have two rulings for the House.
A point of order was raised by the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) on October 2 during Question Period about the use of the word "misleading." I took the matter under advisement. I had initially ruled that the phrase "that is misleading" was unparliamentary and asked the honourable member for St. Johns to withdraw it. Upon examining Hansard and upon reflection, I must apologize to the member and to the House.
In the context in which the word was used, it was not unparliamentary, and I should not have directed the member to withdraw the word.
To clarify, only when it is claimed that the misleading is deliberate should it be considered to be unparliamentary. However, I do have a concern about the way in which the honourable member for St. Johns pursued the matter when I had ruled the word to be unparliamentary. Beauchesne's Citation 1681 indicates that the action of the Speaker cannot be criticized incidentally in debate or in any form of proceeding except by use of a substantive motion. The only way to show disagreement with a Speaker's ruling other than by a substantive motion is to challenge the ruling.
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Madam Speaker: I have a second ruling for the House.
On Friday, October 6, 1995, the honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) raised a matter of privilege which I took under advisement. He moved that this House do censure the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) for a breach of the privileges of its members by misleading its members in the matter of information made available to the media and withheld to the members of the Legislative Assembly.
In raising the matter of privilege, the member for Kildonan stated that on October 4, he and his colleagues had several times asked the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and the Minister of Health about permanent closure of emergency wards and no answer was given. The member for Kildonan then stated that while this was happening, the Deputy Minister of Health was telephoning hospitals telling them that the wards would be closed permanently and that right after that Question Period, the Minister of Health, in the press scrum in the hallway outside the Chamber, stated to the media and to the public that those wards would be closed permanently.
While the member for Kildonan may have a grievance, he does not have a matter of privilege. Beauchesne's Citations 31 and 416 are quite clear. The failure of a minister to answer a question may not be raised as a question of privilege and statements made outside the House by a member may not be used as the basis for a question of privilege. A member may put a question but has no right to insist upon an answer.
Therefore, the honourable member's motion is not in order.
Committee Changes
Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: Broadway (Mr. Santos) for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans); Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk), for Thursday October 19, 1995, for 10 a.m.
Motion agreed to.