Winnipeg Jets/Arena

Repayment of Funding

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Over the last number of months, we have learned of a number of payments that have been made by the provincial government to MEC and the Winnipeg Jets attempt. I would like to ask the Premier, on May 17, the provincial government forwarded a cheque for $612,000 to the Manitoba Entertainment Complex for a so-called capital works project under the Manitoba Infrastructure Program.

Did the Premier authorize that cheque, and is it a repayable cheque back to the people of Manitoba?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, as we have indicated in this House and publicly, to date there has been approximately $7 million spent on the whole initiative of saving the Jets, keeping them in Manitoba and potentially building a new entertainment complex.

There were contributions made by three levels of government, the federal government, the provincial government and the City of Winnipeg, along with contributions by the private sector. A portion of our contribution was an advance from the Infrastructure Program if the project were to proceed. The item that the Leader of the Opposition is referring to is one of those advances to meet some of the ongoing costs as part of our commitment and was and is subject to receipt of appropriate documentation.

As I have indicated publicly, Madam Speaker, as soon as MEC and Spirit of Manitoba have prepared their summary financial statements showing all of their disbursements--they are also having that audited independently by, I believe, Price Waterhouse accounting firm--we intend to have the Provincial Auditor go in and review all of the disbursements in conjunction with the City of Winnipeg auditor and even potentially the federal auditor in terms of showing the full and complete accounting of all of the funds.

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Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the minister did not answer the question directly about whether that money is going to be repaid back to the people of Manitoba under the cheque that he sent. On July 6, a further $520,000 cheque was sent from the Province of Manitoba to the MEC group for so-called, again, capital works claims under the Manitoba-Canada Infrastructure Program.

I would like to ask again, given the fact that we have the minister responsible for the Jets, for Lotteries, for Infrastructure answering the questions today, did the Premier (Mr. Filmon) approve these payments and cheques to be forwarded to the MEC group, and why do we not get press releases, as we do on many other Manitoba infrastructure programs? In fact, for almost every infrastructure program, we have news releases and signings and everything else so the public will know.

Did the Premier authorize this money? Will it be returned, and why did we not have the same kind of notice, in terms of press releases, as we see for other activity?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, there is nothing new here. It followed the regular process in terms of applying for funding under the Infrastructure Program.

We have indicated consistently that the total commitment from the province in terms of private-sector notes from the private-sector note fund and in terms of advances against the Infrastructure Program will be close to $3 million out of the $7 million, Madam Speaker. We have said that consistently.

We have said we will provide, as part of the overall report, all of the distribution, where all of the money went, whether it was for preconstruction activities, design, architectural, legal, whatever kinds of work were done, that that will all be accounted for and will be audited both by independent auditors and by the Provincial Auditor.

We expect that information fairly shortly. We have certainly indicated to Spirit that we believe it is in everybody's best interest to provide all of that information as soon as possible for a complete and comprehensive accounting, so everybody knows how all of the money that was advanced from all three levels of government was ultimately utilized, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Doer: The minister, in the first answer, or so-called answer, indicated that the money was sent subject to the fact that the project would proceed. Now he is indicating the money is lost. Up to $3 million is lost.

I would like to ask the minister, will the money be repaid, because obviously the project did not proceed. Will that money be repaid, or are the taxpayers of Manitoba subject to those losses on top of the losses that were signed away by the Premier (Mr. Filmon) in the operating-loss agreement in 1991, a loss agreement that the Minister of Finance and the Premier said in the election would be cancelled on May 1, 1995?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, advances were made by all three levels of government. We have indicated the level of advances or commitments from our provincial government toward the project on the basis that everybody was working toward the objective of hopefully proceeding to a positive conclusion.

That was not the case, Madam Speaker, and those monies will not be refunded, were never meant to be a part of being refunded. That has happened with at least one other infrastructure program, where some advances were done on the basis of a project proceeding. In fact, it was the Kenaston underpass.

An Honourable Member: Another real winner.

Mr. Stefanson: Now the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) obviously is not supportive of the Infrastructure Program. I know the people in Thompson, through the Burntwood trailer court, are very supportive of the Infrastructure Program, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, there will be a full, complete, comprehensive accounting of money that came from the federal government, provincial government, City of Winnipeg and the private sector. There is nothing new with this question from the Leader of the Opposition, and we expect that information shortly.

Youth Court

Sentencing

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): My question is to the Minister of Justice.

It was one year ago today that 14-year-old David Frey was viciously attacked in this city by a 17-year-old gang member, who was after his skateboard. According to the police report, David was chased on foot, the gang member yelling that he would kill him with a handgun. When he caught up, the gang member put the gun to David's head and struck David on the top of his forehead and twice in the jaw with the butt of his gun until the gun broke. This left David unconscious with two teeth knocked out, a fractured jaw, a fractured left eye socket, lasting eyesight damage, cuts needing internal and external stitches, plastic surgery, as well as bruising and a disability in his hand.

My question to the minister: Would the minister explain to Manitobans, particularly to David and David's mother who is here today, why it is this government's policy that violent youth gang members like this one often do not face consequences for a year? One year later, he has still to be sentenced and will not be until at least November, all the while on bail, Madam Speaker.

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Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, the member has brought forward a very specific case which he clearly says to this Legislature is not at the moment disposed of, so I must be very careful in any comments that I make, that they cannot in any way be linked to a case which is quite obviously, and by the member's own admission, still before the courts.

Madam Speaker, we have taken a very active role in dealing with young offenders. We have started with requests for changes to the legislation. We have moved in terms of consequences provided within our own province. We are working with the chief judge in terms of the court dates. This government has taken the leading position across this country in dealing with young offenders.

Mr. Mackintosh: Will this minister then explain why it is this government's policy that sentencing for all five gang members involved in the planning and carrying out of this attack on David should be allowed to take an average of 11 months for these young offenders? All had their charges reduced, and all enjoyed bail, even though three were on probation at the time and two offended again while on bail.

Mrs. Vodrey: Madam Speaker, again, the member has the opportunity to speak very openly about cases which are before the courts, in great detail, which he brings to this Legislature.

Madam Speaker, as Attorney General of this province, I am not able to speak about cases which are before the courts. As the member knows, it is up to the judiciary to determine whether or not bail will be granted to people who are brought before it.

Madam Speaker, if the member wishes to add further, then he will.

Plea Bargaining

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): She has an obligation, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for St. Johns, with a final supplementary question.

Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister now admit that despite the horrendous backlogs and the plea bargaining, there is only one permanent prosecutor in her youth court? Will she finally give the needed resources and direction to that court, so that we can have swift and meaningful consequences and safety for Manitobans?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, the member knows very well that in our youth courts, it is not an 11-month wait that is there as a result of issues before the court. The member knows very well, and, again, I want to be careful to be clear that I am not speaking about any case which has been raised today or any cases which are currently before the courts, but there are reasons, particularly on the part of the defence, which require cases to be put over or time delayed before they are brought forward.

The member knows very well that there are times and dates available within youth court much, much earlier than 11 months and much more likely in the range of three months. So the member is bringing forward a specific case where he knows that I cannot comment, and he is bringing forward--[interjection] As usual, he does not want to ever hear the answer, Madam Speaker. This has been typical behaviour from the other side--ask a question and then interfere with the process of the answer.

Madam Speaker, I would say on behalf of this government that it is very clear, our position on youth crime and violence. Our position is a leading one across this country.

Our position, Madam Speaker, is also a holistic one. We recognize that we have to deal with the community, we have to deal with the legislation, we have to deal with the court process and we have to deal with consequences. That is just what we have done.

Winnipeg Child and Family Services

Child Apprehension Policy

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, when children are apprehended in Manitoba, we hope that it is done only as a last resort and only after as many resources as are available can be put into the situation to assist the parents and to act in the best interests of the child.

I know that a situation has been brought to the attention of the Minister of Family Services of two children who were apprehended last Friday by Winnipeg Child and Family Services.

I would like to ask the minister if the parents in this particular situation, and I know she cannot discuss details, but in this situation, is it like other situations where the parents should have been--in this case, were they advised that apprehension was considered, and were they told this in advance so that they could ask for additional resources?

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Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for the question and also for inclusion in his preamble about my ability not to speak about individual cases.

As I think all members of this House would know if they had heard any of the media reports today, Keith Cooper, who is the executive director of Winnipeg Child and Family Services, has undertaken to do a complete and thorough investigation to ensure that, first and foremost, of course, the needs of the child and the protection of the child are met but also that there was a sensitive handling of the family situation.

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, will the minister, in addition to requesting the CEO of Winnipeg Child and Family Services, take a personal interest in this case and assure herself that all of the options other than apprehension were investigated and shared with the parents before the apprehension took place?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, indeed, I take a very personal interest in all of the issues dealing with my portfolio, and I would not want to see a family circumstance or something happen within a family that should not happen.

A lot of the focus over the last few years in the Department of Family Services has been on family support, family preservation and family responsibility. I think that the dollars and the resources that have been flowing to the agencies throughout the province have shown that we have placed a focus in that area, and that is indeed what we are trying to do. We are trying to ensure that, wherever possible, the child remain with the family or extended family, because I do not believe always that alternative placement is the right answer.

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the minister for taking a personal interest in this situation and ask her if she would meet with the parents involved and explain to them how the process is supposed to work and assure them that all of the proper procedures were, in fact, followed in this particular situation and work towards an agreeable solution.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, indeed, I will be awaiting the response from Keith Cooper this afternoon. I believe he was going to investigate expeditiously and ensure that the proper procedures were followed and that there was sensitivity used in dealing with the family and with the children.

I anticipate that report and will then determine what steps need to follow.

Emergency Physicians' Strike

Government Action

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, last week, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) took as notice a number of questions about a letter written by the head of emergency services at Health Sciences Centre, Dr. Ludwig, who indicated at the time that there was an impending crisis in the emergency rooms at Health Sciences Centre.

My question to the Minister of Health is, given that the minister has allowed the strike to occur in the community hospitals and has appeared to have lost control of the process, what steps are they putting in place to ensure that we do not find ourselves in another crisis situation faced in the other hospitals like St. Boniface and Health Sciences Centre as a result of government inaction and in light of the letter written by Dr. Ludwig saying that the Health Sciences Centre is in a position of crisis?

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Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member for Kildonan raises issues related to emergency services in Winnipeg, and they are always relevant but certainly very relevant at a time when there is a work disruption in progress.

The work done by the people at Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface General Hospital during the past disruption is something that ought not to go unnoticed by the people of this province and the people of this city. The nursing and medical staff at those places have been magnificent in the sense of the challenge placed before them, and it is always appropriate for us to call attention to the very, very good work they have been doing to ensure that Winnipeggers who need their services have those services at a time like this.

The honourable member uses an opportunity like this to raise issues and talk about crises and all that sort of thing, which really is not very helpful at a time when Winnipeggers are genuinely concerned about the level of services available at a time like this.

I hope that he will keep that in mind, but I tell him that the contingency plan that we have had in effect has been working in a way that people who need services are able to get them, albeit in some cases after some considerable wait which we regret.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I join with the minister congratulating all those people who are undertaking their work in those hospitals under very trying conditions and add to the minister that we should not be in this situation but for the government of Manitoba imposing cutbacks on the hospitals which attempted to negotiate contracts.

My supplementary for the minister is, can the minister indicate to the House today whether or not the government is at the bargaining table, who is negotiating on behalf of the government and whether or not there is any flexibility on the part of MHO regarding negotiations, since it is this government that imposed the cutbacks on hospitals that have resulted in the strike?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member likes to attribute everything that ever happens to something that is entirely within the control of the government. He forgets not only the record of the government that he supported in the years that they were in office, but he also forgets that there are minor little details such as hundreds of millions of dollars being taken from Health budgets across this country, including Manitoba, by the federal government in Ottawa. He very carefully forgets to mention all of that.

So I do not think it has anything to do with reductions in funding for hospitals that a group of physicians should be coming to the negotiating table asking for a 15 percent increase at a time when other health care professionals in Manitoba are accepting a minus two.

I do not think that has anything to do with reductions in budgets, Madam Speaker. It has to do with a negotiating strategy on one side or the other, and the honourable member again draws his own very narrow and partisan conclusions from those.

The government has been asked to have someone at the bargaining table. The government has complied with that request on the understanding that the Manitoba Health representative is there on the basis of a resource to the process and not as a participant in the negotiations.

Mr. Chomiak: My question for the minister is, does the minister not recognize that it was the head of the Health Sciences Centre who wrote the letter saying that the emergency room was in crisis, and will the minister not explain to this House how it is that the $19-million cut to Health Sciences Centre, the $20-million cut to St. Boniface Hospital and the $2-million cut to Seven Oaks Hospital is not a factor in paying these doctors and is not a factor in the strike, because it has been government cutbacks that have imposed the restraint on hospitals?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, is it not interesting the honourable member should refer to these alleged reductions at Health Sciences Centre when it is Health Sciences Centre upon which we all rely right now, and St. Boniface Hospital emergency rooms, to look after a system that is facing increasing pressure because of a work stoppage.

Those two hospitals, Madam Speaker, are managing to provide the services that Winnipeggers need, so I do not know precisely where the honourable member is coming from when he talks the way he does at a time when both those hospitals are taking far more patients than they usually do and are managing to cope.

Emergency Physicians' Strike

Government Action

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question, too, is for the Minister of Health.

Two days ago, a man experienced a great deal of pain after hurting his hand, went to Grace Hospital, and the preliminary diagnosis was that it was probably fractured, and he was told that he would have approximately six hours to wait, then went to the Health Sciences Centre and virtually gave up because of what appeared to be unbelievable waiting lists and ended up travelling out to Winkler, Manitoba, in order to get his hand looked at and X-rayed.

My question to the Minister of Health is, will he, today, agree and acknowledge that there is a need to put this strike to an end and bring in back-to-work legislation?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I certainly can acknowledge that there is a desire on the part of this government to bring this dispute to a satisfactory resolution.

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Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, when is this government going to be putting the patient first and prevent individuals from now having to look to rural Manitoba in order to get some hospital treatment through emergency services? Is emergency services a part of the core essential health care services from this government or is it not?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, it does the patient no service and, indeed, a disservice to take action which would be seen by all of the health providers, I suggest, in Manitoba as an action which would lead to further disruptions. But for the dispute we have with the Manitoba Medical Association over the emergency situation, we have enjoyed and want to continue to enjoy a positive working relationship.

Madam Speaker, the honourable member is suggesting by taking precipitous action, that we should do that, and my suggestion is that if you did not need to do that and did it anyway, as the honourable member is suggesting, you create a climate that you do not need to have at a time of change in the health sector.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, my question to the Minister of Health is, under what conditions is this Minister of Health prepared to look at the possibility of bringing in back-to-work legislation? How long is he prepared to let this strike go?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I can tell the honourable member that on a daily basis we monitor the situation in emergency services in the city of Winnipeg, that we want to ensure that the contingency plan that was put in place in response to an action which we do not support, that being doctors withdrawing their services--that contingency plan has been in place and, as I say, thanks to those people who are making it work.

If the honourable member wants to co-operate to the extent of sharing with me further information about the specific case that he brings forward, I would be happy to look into that further and to bring it to the attention of those who are running our contingency plan to ensure that those who need emergent or urgent services are provided those services within a reasonable period of time, and those who require other services are directed to appropriate places.

Winnipeg Jets/Arena

MEC Proposal--Investigation

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the lawyer for MEC, Mr. Kormylo, stated in his submission of April 11 which we tabled last week, and I quote: The financing proposal described herein reflects the terms and conditions of matters that have been agreed upon and with respect to matters not yet finalized, reflects the anticipated terms of agreement which are expected to be finalized in the very near future.

He goes on to say, we would be pleased to provide you with further details on any of the matters set out in Schedule A and copies of the agreements and other documents referred to therein at your request.

My question is for the minister responsible for the Manitoba Securities Commission.

Madam Speaker, in light of the great gulf between the very specific statements which I just quoted and the words of the Premier (Mr. Filmon) last week, will the minister responsible for the Securities Commission cause an investigation to be made under Section 22 of that act to determine whether the submission, to quote Section 136, makes a statement in any material, evidence or information that either states or omits to state a fact which makes the statement misleading? Will the minister cause an investigation to be made?

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Madam Speaker, the Manitoba Securities Commission is a quasi-judicial independent board. It operates under its own legislation. They receive hundreds of applications annually to be dealt with, and I do not see any of them.

They are an independent board and deal with the matter under their own legislation.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister responsible for the Manitoba Securities Commission meet with the commission and direct the commission specifically to detail and make public the dates of and attendance at the, quote, numerous meetings held between MEC and the government in the period December to April 11, 1995?

Mr. Ernst: Madam Speaker, if I were to meet with the Manitoba Securities Commission and direct them to do anything, members opposite would be the first to jump up and down and claim political interference.

They are a quasi-judicial independent board. The members of the board are there to operate under the legislation and within the parameters that they have to operate, Madam Speaker, not with political interference but on their own to do their job.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, the minister is responsible for this commission. Will he direct the commission to ascertain and make public the, quote, in-principle commitments of support made by the province and referred to twice in the document, and in particular the commitment to provide $43 million in grants which are referred to in Article 21 of this document?

Mr. Ernst: Madam Speaker, I do not think the member for Crescentwood heard my response to his earlier question.

This is an independent board. The government does not direct independent boards, quasi-judicial boards, to do anything, Madam Speaker. They will choose to do or not do what they will under the terms of their legislation and under the operating guidelines that they operate.

Manitoba Student Aid

Computer System

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, on August 10, I wrote to the Minister of Education expressing my concerns about the failure of the new computer system at Manitoba student aid. The minister replied that it was the university's fault and that student aid had been, and I quote, obliged to move its student aid computer service from the University of Manitoba system.

My question to the minister today is, would she now correct that statement, acknowledge that it was her government which through the Universities Grants Commission withdrew two years ago the support for that student aid computer system at the university, and will she take responsibility for introducing an inadequate system at a time most likely to cause disruption for students?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the member, having asked the first part of her question, obviously must know the second part that she chose not to ask, for obvious reasons when the answer is given, and that is that the new computer system, even though there was the delay for which no one particular person can be blamed--there was a computer breakdown.

The computer breakdown was repaired. The students ended up, at the time that they would have normally been meeting deadlines, ahead of the time line they would have been at had the computer system not been there.

That is due, in part, to a number of things, not the least of which is the dedication of the staff who worked overtime, who worked weekends, to ensure that once the system was up and running, that the material was fed into it quickly.

So there was no ultimate delay. In fact, at the appropriate moment, they were ahead of where they would have been the previous year.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, could the minister give us today a deadline, a commitment once and for all, when those over a thousand Manitoba students who still have no notification of their assessment, when will they know whether they can pay for their books and register for their classes?

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I would indicate to the member that the time line has been caught up and surpassed, so that as the decisions are made in due course, they will come down similar to the time lines they had in previous years and hopefully a little bit ahead.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, can the minister confirm that the cost of this new computer system is close to a million dollars, and will she tell us whether the contract enables her, enables the government, to recover losses incurred by universities, by students and by the Department of Education as a result of a failure in the system?

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I will take as notice the exact amount of money that the system cost.

I will also, however, at the same time reiterate to the member that despite the delay that occurred in mid-summer, the schedule was picked up and surpassed, in terms of speed, over other years.

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Disaster Assistance

Crop Damage--Flooding

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, the flooding last spring below the Shellmouth Dam which was the result of mismanagement by this government has resulted in a loss of income for many farmers. In fact, close to $28 million has been lost by farmers.

I want to ask the minister of disaster assistance why there is a delay in settling disaster assistance claims and what other compensation we can expect for these farmers, since it was a result of government mismanagement that they have lost their crops.

Hon. Brian Pallister (Minister of Government Services): As far as the flooding situation and the disaster compensation issue is concerned, the claims are currently being investigated.

In terms of the overall number of claims, we had over 700 private claims, and all of these have been inspected to date. About 400 have been fully evaluated, so there are about 300 remaining to be evaluated, which should be done in about the next two or three weeks.

Ms. Wowchuk: I want to ask the minister of disaster assistance, since the crop losses are not covered by disaster assistance funding, what steps is this government prepared to take to cover the losses of farmers, close to $28 million, which was the result of mismanagement by this government when it came to regulating the water flows out of the Shellmouth Dam?

Mr. Pallister: I think all of us, certainly on this side of the House, understand the difficulties faced by those who have been flooded and understand, as many of these people are farmers, the problems that are faced by farmers every year and the risks they assume when they put a crop in.

Oh, that it were so simple as the member outlines, you know, that it was the government's fault that there was a record amount of rainfall, snowfall and water in that basin. Oh, that it was the government's fault, so that the government could stop it from ever happening again, but such is certainly not the case.

The member talks about additional compensation for farmers who were not able to put their crop in. This is something that has never been covered by disaster assistance in any province in this country. There are certain types of insurance available for situations where land is uncroppable through the Crop Insurance organization. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) could elaborate on that in more detail.

Shellmouth Dam

Irrigation Projects

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, I would like to table an article from the Russell Banner in which there is a statement that the farmers in the Russell area feel that they are being sacrificed in order to build a water supply for irrigation projects further downstream.

I want to ask this government if it is a fact that the water was held back at the Shellmouth Dam in order to create more water for irrigation projects downstream.

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, totally irresponsible statements. I am surprised that the member would put those on the record in this building here.

The operations of the Shellmouth Dam have been done by professionals for many years. Nothing has changed in that regard, and there is a system in place as to how it is being regulated. I would ask the member that she apprise herself of some facts before she makes these kinds of statements here.

McCain Foods Expansion

Impact on Water Resources

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): The announcement of an expansion of production at McCain in Portage last week will result in increases in pressure on the availability and usage of that area's water supply.

We must consider the sustainability of this project in terms of our water resources to ensure long-term, value-added jobs and the diversification of Manitoba agriculture.

With this in mind, can the Minister of Natural Resources assure this House that the amount of water drawn from the Carberry aquifer will not exceed the amount of water replenishing this aquifer?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, it was approximately two years ago when a group from the Pembina area made an application to draw water from the Assiniboine River. At that time, environmental hearings were held, and a process was brought forward in terms of letting the public speak out. During the course of those hearings, there was a delay put on the project.

At that time in my department, we established what we called the Assiniboine River Advisory Committee made up of all the shareholders or stakeholders along the Assiniboine River. They have been working on this project now for over a year, and they will be advising my department, myself and this government as to how much water can be drawn out of the Assiniboine River Valley for irrigation or for other reasons.

Madam Speaker, they have had a hearing process. Everybody is entitled to go and participate in that, and I would suggest that some members of the opposition would have availed themselves of that opportunity and participated and found out what is going on.

Mr. Struthers: Can the minister then table in this House a study or a report of any independent body that can show there will be no ill effects on the current users of the Carberry aquifer or the current users of the Assiniboine River water? Table it.

Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, before any permits are going to be issued, there is going to be consideration given as to the requirements of everybody along the river, and we have people, the Assiniboine River Advisory Committee, who are formulating the statements basically that are coming forward and that will be followed up on.

Mr. Struthers: Can the minister assure the House that all additional water for this project will be drawn from water retention projects and that no additional water will be drawn from the aquifer or the Assiniboine River?

Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, I would hope that the members of this Legislature here would view this as a very positive development for Manitoba because we, through this project that was announced, will be the second-largest potato-producing province in Canada. The economic impact for Manitobans and the jobs it will create for the people around Portage are dramatic.

I want to assure all members here that we promote this, and we will work together with the people in conjunction, making sure that there is adequate water because this, as far as I am concerned, is only the tip of the iceberg. We will be having more of this kind of development, and in conjunction with that announcement, there are also going to be undertaken water retention programs.

This is going to be a very exciting time for all Manitobans as we evolve this whole program.

Highway Construction/Upgrading

Wabowden

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, with one very short question.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): My question is for the Minister responsible for Highways.

How long did it take the government to recognize the problem with the failed paving project north of Wabowden, and why did the government not immediately notify the public?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, as I told the member the other day, the night of the incident, staff were out there with gravel and sand trying to cover it up to prevent the incident from getting worse than it already was. There is a process of assessing where the blame is, so that it does not happen again in the province of Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.

Speaker's Ruling

Madam Speaker: I have a ruling for the House.

On June 29, I took under advisement a point of order raised by the honourable government House leader respecting words uttered during Question Period by the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh). In his point of order, the government House leader stated that the honourable member for St. Johns had made allegations and accusations and raised inferences which were unfounded. In his point of order, however, the government House leader did not identify which of the words spoken by the honourable member for St. Johns had prompted him to rise on a point of order. I have reviewed Hansard carefully, as I said I would.

The honourable member for St. Johns and the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik) were apparently both present at a media scrum on June 28. The exchanges between the honourable member and the honourable minister on June 29 apparently were based on each individual's perception or recollection of what was said during the media scrum on the 28th.

Beauchesne's Citation 494 points out that "It has been formally ruled by Speakers that statements by Members respecting themselves and particularly within their own knowledge must be accepted." and also makes the point that "On rare occasions this may result in the House having to accept two contradictory accounts of the same incident."

In this case, we have two differing perceptions of the same event, those of the honourable member for St. Johns and of the honourable Minister of Northern Affairs.

I am therefore ruling that honourable government House leader did not have a point of order.

Committee Changes

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: Thompson (Mr. Ashton) for Wellington (Ms. Barrett); Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) for Transcona (Mr. Reid); Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans), for Tuesday, September 26, 1995, for 10 a.m. [agreed]

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

Rosh Hashana

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Might I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Kildonan have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I believe that all members of the Chamber would join me in wishing a very happy and prosperous new year celebrating Rosh Hashana for all Manitobans of Jewish background and faith. This is one of the holiest times of the year, and I would, on behalf of all members of the Chamber, like to wish best wishes for a new year of happiness and peace, of health and prosperity for all.

I also would like to add, Madam Speaker, I think it is very fitting that during the time of Rosh Hashana some further steps towards peace in the Middle East are being taken, as we speak, in negotiations that are undertaken in Israel today, and since the theme of Rosh Hashana is peace, we wish that whole process will be continued and will be furthered.

* (1420)

University of Manitoba Agriculture Students' Annual Bed Run

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): May I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Swan River have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, I would just like to take a moment to congratulate the Agriculture students from the University of Manitoba who did their annual bed run from Brandon to Winnipeg this weekend, on their efforts to make people aware of the activities in rural Manitoba. In particular, I would like to congratulate them on contributing the funds that they raised to the rural stress line.

Many times people who leave rural Manitoba, particularly young people, are told that they forget about their rural roots and are very quick to migrate to the city. In this case these young people have continued to remember their people in rural Manitoba, and they recognize the need for services. I want to congratulate them on their efforts for contributing funds to the rural stress line.

Snow Lake Mine Opening

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, I seek leave to make a nonpolitical statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Flin Flon have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Jennissen: I rise today to congratulate the people of Snow Lake for their perseverance in sticking together after the mine closure a couple of years back and working together for the good of the community.

Tomorrow is the official opening of the new Photo Lake Mine at Snow Lake, a major step forward for the community. Something that all members will support, I am sure.

I am very honoured to be the representative of such a dynamic community, and I am looking forward to the opening and the mine operating for many years to come.

For those who have never visited Snow Lake I highly recommend that you do so. There are a variety of recreational opportunities at Snow Lake from superb fishing to golfing, along with some of the friendliest people in Manitoba.

I am also pleased to note that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) will be joining us at this opening, along with the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik). I welcome them to the North and look forward to showing them some of the highlights of this vibrant community. Thank you, Madam Speaker.