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ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

VLT Revenues

Information Release

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.

Last December, when the NDP introduced the private member's Lotteries Accountability Act, the former Minister of Lotteries indicated that it was not necessary, that they would be giving us a community-by-community breakdown of gambling soon. I quote "soon."

In March, the former minister said the same thing, and again in early April he said the same thing, that a community-by-community breakdown would be available to the public shortly.

The Premier, in the election campaign, Madam Speaker, at a debate that we all attended, said that he hoped and wanted the material on a community-by-community breakdown to be out before the election campaign.

Madam Speaker, we have heard this story time and time again and yet communities are having public hearings on gambling and do not have the information from this government.

I would like the Premier to release the information immediately so the public of Manitoba can be fully involved in both the benefits of gambling and the consequences of gambling in their own communities.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I know this is an issue that is important to many. Certainly, the reason why the Desjardins commission was appointed was we felt that those who had concerns ought to have an opportunity to raise them at public hearings, and so the committee, under the chairmanship of a former minister in the New Democratic administration, Mr. Desjardins, is going throughout the province, is listening to people, is accepting those presentations. We will certainly await the outcome with great interest.

The particular matter of the release of community-by-community breakdown is a matter of being able to catalogue the information on a community-by-community basis. As soon as we have that information, we will release it. I have said that before.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, this government can spend millions of dollars on image advertising at the Lotteries Corporation, yet it cannot provide community-by-community breakdown of information that is available, according to our sources, at the Lotteries commission. This corporation is computerized. It has the data bank. The government does not have the political will to release that information to the communities because they are afraid of the consequences in terms of the debate.

Would the Premier stop the secrecy at the Lotteries Corporation and give Manitoba communities the community-by-community breakdown that surely they are entitled to as these community hearings take place?

Mr. Filmon: I have said before there is no lack of will on our part as a government. As soon as the information is available, it will be able to be provided publicly.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, after the election debate where the Premier indicated that the material would be released--that is after his minister said the same thing for the last six months--the Ombudsman was informed by the Lotteries Corporation that the data is available at the Lotteries Corporation. We have also been told by employees of the Lotteries Corporation that all the material is available, machine by machine, hotel by hotel and community by community.

We are not asking the government to reveal any confidential private information. What we think is that the community should know and have the right to know about the information in their own communities.

Would the Premier stop the secrecy at his government's level and demand that information, which is available, be released today so the people of Manitoba can be adequately informed to participate properly in their debate about their Lotteries Corporation, not the Filmon Lotteries Corporation?

Madam Speaker: I would remind the honourable Leader of the official opposition that all members are referred to, ministers by their portfolio and other members by their constituencies.

Mr. Doer: The First Minister, the member for Tuxedo, would he please release that information?

Madam Speaker: I appreciate that. I thank the honourable Leader of the official opposition.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, that is the same question as I just answered, and the answer is the same.

Home Care

Private Services

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, yesterday, in the committee on Estimates, the minister indicated the government is going to introduce private for-profit home care in three areas: IV services, hospital discharges and backup to the regular government-run home care.

Can the minister explain how the introduction of private for-profit home care into our home care system is going to improve the home care that is presently provided by a not-for-profit operation?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I would hope that the honourable member would keep his focus the same as other people in Manitoba, that being the patient, when it comes to health services.

I recall when a Seven Oaks project involving a profit-making private company led to no additional costs for patients and much-improved services that his response, even though the patients were very, very comfortable with that and the patients gave a very, very positive evaluation of the service, was that it is no good if it is run by the private sector.

There is room for various players in the health system, the nonprofit sector, the public sector and the private sector.

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Mr. Chomiak: Will the minister table his studies which show that profit-making companies are going to benefit our health care system when we have years of experience in Canada that say one of the benefits of our health care system is our not-for-profit centrally administrated system? Will he table the studies that show otherwise?

Mr. McCrae: There have been very many good features developed over the years by the public and nonprofit sectors and a number of features of our health care system that drastically or desperately need change because they have not met with the expectations of the generation in existence in Manitoba today.

The honourable member has simply a philosophical problem. That is his problem. If he and his colleagues want to live 50 years ago and be hidebound for the next 50 years, that is going to be their problem.

Mr. Chomiak: Will he assure this House today--since he will not table any studies--that no patient in Manitoba will be charged additional fees as a result of these profit-run operations that are going to be introduced in three major areas of home care?

Mr. McCrae: The honourable member was present the day we made the study of the Seven Oaks project. It was a very, very positive one, and even on that day the honourable member had a little bit of a problem being critical, although when he comes to the comfort of this Chamber, he is quite critical.

Manitoba Housing Authority

Amalgamation

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, poverty is a problem for thousands of Manitobans. A big part of that problem is safe, decent and affordable housing. Many people who live on low incomes pay as much as 50 percent of their income for housing.

Given that the purpose of the Manitoba Housing Authority is to manage some 20,000 properties of public housing in Manitoba and that the purpose of the Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation is to finance the development of affordable housing for Manitobans, I want to ask the minister if he can tell the House what plans there are to bring together these two agencies in Manitoba.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Madam Speaker, the preamble was so long, I forgot which two departments she was talking about.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Radisson, to quickly repeat the question.

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, the question is if the minister can tell the House plans within his department to bring together the Manitoba Housing Authority and the Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation.

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, with everything within the department, there is a consultation process being put in place regarding the approaches that are being handled with Manitoba Housing, the tenant relations and the attitude of their safety and their control in regard to what the member for Radisson is referring to, the pest control. These are all closely monitored in a sense of reactionary. If there is a problem, they are reacted to.

The consultation between the two departments will continue, and the problems, as they are presented, are handled.

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, I do not think the minister answered the question. I will ask the question again.

Are there plans in the department to amalgamate the Manitoba Housing Authority and the Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation or to eliminate the function of the Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation, which is to oversee the development of affordable housing for low-income Manitobans?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, with anything regarding a departmental overview or a restructuring, there is always the possibility of looking at where directions are being placed, where the emphasis is.

The fact that we are dealing with a clientele and people who are requiring affordable housing is of the most primary function, and any type of direction that is taken is naturally done on a consultation basis as to which is the best vehicle to provide this type of direction.

There is always an ongoing discussion and a dialogue between all departments within the government.

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Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, is this government going to abandon one of the biggest things it can do for low-income Manitobans who live in poverty, which is to ensure they have decent, safe, affordable housing? Is this government going to eliminate that function from the provincial government in Manitoba?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, the short answer is no.

Public Housing

Herbicide Spraying Notification

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): If I might have time to reply to a question that I took as notice from the member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli) last week. It was in regard to herbicide spraying.

If I recall, the question that was asked by the member for Radisson is what is the procedure regarding the spraying of herbicides in public housing.

The practice is to give notice of 24 hours to each tenant when they are spraying with herbicide. They are also asked to keep the children off the grass for one hour after, until it dries. [interjection] And pets, too, yes.

Conservation Fund

Grant--Member for Lakeside

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

I would like to ask the minister whether he would investigate and release details of a $12,888 grant presented by the honourable member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) in 1991 out of a fund that was designed to protect rare birds? I would like to know what that grant was used for. What happened to the money?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, let me, first of all, state that the program was established prior to my taking over the department.

The special conservation fund that is there has funded many, many very worthwhile projects, and the people who have participated in them over the years have done a tremendous job with that. I think that is a very good program that is out there. There is a process in place in terms of applications that come in and how they are being dealt with.

I will investigate what the member is alluding to, but I want to also raise some sensitivity in terms of people that make accusations. They better make sure they have their facts straight, because we cannot run around investigating all these kinds of accusations that possibly come forward through the media.

I would have hoped somebody would have come forward and raised that issue with the department or with the government itself instead of going through the media on that issue.

Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, clearly, we will not get any answers from this minister.

My supplementary, Madam Speaker, is to the Minister responsible for Manitoba Community Places.

Point of Order

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): On a point of order, Madam Speaker, the member for Elmwood just indicated that they would receive no answers from this minister. He just gave an answer and has responded to every question that has been put.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I believe you will find that is not a point of order.

Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable Leader of the official opposition for his opinion and information. Now I will rule on the point of order.

The honourable government House leader indeed did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

Manitoba Community Places

Grant--Member for Lakeside

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my supplementary then is to a different minister, the Minister for the Manitoba Community Places.

Would the minister investigate and release publicly all details of a grant that took place January 9, 1992, a grant of $44,490 presented by the member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns)?--and I would like to know what it was used for.

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Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Madam Speaker, I can confirm that there was an application in the spring of 1991. It was approved later in 1991. The work was subsequently done. The project was inspected by the regional staff and the facility consultant on August 22, 1991. All costs were paid and supported by receipts and cancelled cheques. The Community Places Program grant was paid in one instalment on December 12, 1991.

This is a facility that is used by many in that area for the local baseball league or as a recreation centre and the Interlake Metis Association.

Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, my final supplementary to the same minister is this: Could he investigate and release publicly what a 1990 grant presented by the same honourable member for Lakeside for property in St. Laurent was used for?

Mr. Gilleshammer: The member asked about a Community Places grant. I have provided him with that information. If it is another Community Places grant that he is asking about, perhaps he could give me further information on that.

Port of Churchill

Grain Exports

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transportation.

Currently, there are 30 people working at the Port of Churchill preparing for the 1995 season and hoping that it will not be a repeat of last year. I would like to ask the minister what amount of grain, to his knowledge, has been committed this year, and when will grain begin to be shipped through the port?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, I am sure the member is aware that the Port of Churchill is operated by Ports Canada, a federal undertaking, and that the shipment of grain through there will be done by the Canadian Wheat Board which at this point has not announced any volume of grain that is to go through the Port of Churchill.

I will stand with him and say, we hope that the Canadian Wheat Board can move more volumes of grain through the port this year than they have in the past two years.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister, as well, whether he has consulted with CN to ensure that enough grain cars are available to ship grain through the port, unlike last year when two ships were forced away two weeks--each for grain to be shipped through the port.

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, certainly the relationship between CN and the Wheat Board for moving grain through there is a contractual obligation. I actually had discussions with a CN official last night, and my understanding is that the necessary arrangements when the Wheat Board has contracts will occur with CN.

Again, we hope that the process of arrival is more timely with the ships this year than last year.

Gateway North Project

Status Report

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, my final question to the same minister is, how much has this province committed to the Gateway North project? What is the status of the Gateway North interim committee report?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, clearly, the Gateway North proposal that the member has seen that is a result of a task force involving Manitoba, Saskatchewan, the federal government, CN and a number of other interested groups, was a very good report in terms of identifying commercially how that port and the bayline can continue to operate viably for the good of Manitoba and anybody who moves product through that particular port.

We have contributed through the process, particularly with staff. The Gateway North committee has written a particular recommendation to the federal government. To my knowledge, they have not responded yet. But it is a very significant issue which we hope that the federal government will act on in very short term as the Gateway North committee continues to pursue aggressively, as we will through our department to be sure that the federal government recognize their obligation to keep that port viable and increase the economic opportunities through there in the years ahead.

Garment Industry

Employment Opportunities

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, there have been hundreds of jobs in the garment industry that have gone unfilled over the last seven years. Yesterday, when I asked the Premier the question, he responded by saying the fact of the matter is it is in the area in which traditionally we need to have open borders and opportunities to hire immigrants with skills. When I asked a similar question to the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey), his response was: Am I taking it that the member for Inkster is saying he wants to import people to take the jobs of people who are here, to take jobs away from them, is that what he is suggesting?

Madam Speaker, my question to the Premier, because there is apparently some contradiction in possible government policy, is: Is this Premier prepared to take the action that is necessary and look in terms of what was done in the late '60s, early '70s in order to fill those hundreds of jobs in the garment industry, so that we will see something finally done to see those jobs being filled.

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, far be it for me to try and figure out the policy of what is left of the Liberal Party in this House, to determine what, in fact, they would do.

First of all, we are extremely pleased that the economic climate in this province has generated the kinds of opportunities in the garment industry. That, I think we should all be happy for. In fact, that was one industry that was not to survive with the Free Trade Agreement. We were told that industry would in fact disappear. Well, very much the opposite has taken place.

Yes, we believe we have to make sure there are people available for the garment industry. We would hope, if there are people unemployed and capable in Manitoba, that they would be able to be trained to take on those opportunities. Secondly, if they are not, we should encourage immigration to this country to fulfill those jobs. That is what the Premier (Mr. Filmon) referred to yesterday. That is what built this country.

So we are not at any odds. We believe strongly in satisfying the demand in the garment industry. It is how best we can accomplish that. If it is immigration, that is an opportunity. If it is further training of people in Manitoba, that is an opportunity. The point is, there are jobs and we want people to fill them.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, can the Premier indicate to this House a commitment to adopting a policy that would be similar to the late '60s, early '70s that would see these jobs being filled? The Deputy Premier can say what he will, but the truth of the matter is, this government has failed in filling these jobs for the last seven years.

Will this government take action today and ensure that the federal government is contacted so we can achieve an agreement that will fill these jobs?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, as was indicated by the minister, first and foremost, there is a healthy economy in Manitoba which is in fact seeing expansion and greater opportunities for the garment industry. That is an important point to be repeated.

The second point, of course, is that because there are jobs that go unfilled, we need to consider every avenue for filling those. Training of Manitobans who are looking for employment is one of those opportunities and that is being pursued. The second, of course, is having more liberal--and I use that in a small "l" sense--immigration policies, is absolutely key to the process.

All the way back to the time of my father's generation when he came over to fill an opportunity and take a job in the garment industry back in the early '20s, this has been a source of opportunity for specific skills and expansion of our economy. That opportunity has been damaged by the policies of the federal Liberal government. I said that yesterday.

We are trying to achieve an agreement for a federal-provincial immigration policy so we can have a greater role so that we can target people to the skill shortage needs in our society. That is not being done, thanks to the efforts of the federal Liberal government.

I would say rather than get up and attempt to criticize this administration, he should pick up the phone and phone his federal Liberal counterparts and say, sign an agreement with Manitoba, get on with the job of opening up the borders to greater opportunities for immigrants.

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Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, can the Minister of Finance indicate to this House how much loss of taxation revenue we have suffered because this government has been unable to fill not one but several thousand jobs, because this government has not been able to rise to the challenge of the economy in terms of providing a trained, skilled workforce?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, what the member should be most embarrassed about is the fact that his party has voted against each budget that this administration has brought down that has created the kind of climate that is creating jobs right here in Manitoba--14,000 more jobs today than a year ago.

We are the only province in all of Canada today to have five consecutive months of job growth. No other province in Canada can match that record, Madam Speaker, so he should be ashamed of his performance in terms of not supporting budgets that have created a whole series of advantages to locate and expand activities right here in Manitoba.

I could give him a long list, and I will gladly share that with him at any point in time, but we have created the kind of climate here. Jobs are being created, opportunities are being created, and we have significant job growth in this province, Madam Speaker.

Association of Community Living

Salary Levels

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I believe it is well known that the Association for Community Living branches' employees are dedicated, hard-working people who serve the people they serve to the best of their ability. Regrettably, the per diems from the Department of Family Services works out to $5.01 an hour.

I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services how ACL branches and community option programs and shelter workshops will pay their employees once the minimum wage is increased.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I thank my honourable friend for that question. It does give me the opportunity to talk about our commitment to Community Living and the resources that have been put in place, Madam Speaker.

I think I indicated in Estimates yesterday that we are supportive in trying to find opportunity within our community for those who need our support and our assistance. It is the one area within my department, Madam Speaker, that I have indicated if there are any additional resources whatsoever available, it is an area that I want to see given a very high priority.

That is why, Madam Speaker, we, over the last two budgets in the Department of Family Services, have committed I think it was $4.5 million last year and another $2 million this year to provide additional support, so that we can keep people in the community and have them live productive lives.

So, Madam Speaker, it is an area of high priority, and as the resources become available in our department and there are additional resources, it is an area that I want to receive that additional support.

Mr. Martindale: If it is true, as the minister said in Estimates, that there is more money for Community Living Programs, can the minister tell us why then, when ACL Beausejour requested more money to pay their staff decent wages, they were turned down?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Again, I thank my honourable friend for that question because it allows me the opportunity to inform all members of the Legislature that what we want to do is put the person who needs the service first, and if, in fact, there is an ability for us to serve more individuals with increased resources, that is where our priority will go, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Martindale: Can the Minister of Family Services tell us what she plans to do to stop the high turnover rate of employees in this occupation, who have no incentive to stay on when the wage right now is very low and the minister will not give the Association for Community Living branches more money to even meet the minimum wage? What is she doing to settle the strike in Beausejour? Will she offer them wages that are higher than social assistance?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, it is rather difficult for me to determine which of the six questions just posed I should answer, but, indeed, I will reiterate our position as a government.

We are supportive of Community Living. What we want to do as a government is ensure the people that need our services get those services. It is difficult in these economic times to look at where the priorities should lie. We try to provide the resources to the best of our ability. We have increased resources in the area of Community Living, and as a result of that, more people are being able to be served. We will continue to ensure that as more resources become available, the dollars will be there to serve the people in need.

Northern Affairs Communities

Unconditional Grants

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

I would like to table a list of grants to Northern Affairs and First Nations communities from 1988 to 1994.

As the minister is aware, the province is responsible to share a portion of personal and corporate income tax to First Nations and Northern Affairs communities. This is known as the unconditional grants.

I would like to ask the minister to explain why these amounts have declined from $1,792,574 to $906,125 since 1988, despite an increase in population and revenues from these communities.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, without accepting any of the preamble of the member, I will certainly look into that issue and get back to him.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, I would like to also ask the minister whether or not he will consult with the Ministers of Rural Development and Northern Affairs, and table in this House within the next week a detailed explanation as to why these grants have decreased and whether or not the communities were consulted with regard to the decreases.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I have already indicated I will look into the matter, and I will pursue whatever avenues are required to do just that.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, I would like, as my final question, to ask the minister also, in responding to my questions in the next few days, whether he will commit his government to ensuring that these communities I am talking about will get the exact amount of their share of these revenues.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, as indicated, I will look into all aspects of the issue and respond to the member and to this House.

Forest Fires

Status Report

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

At the beginning of this month, the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) asked the minister a question regarding the forest fire situation in northern Manitoba. Since that time the situation has worsened with many more fires burning and many more out of control. Hot, dry conditions continue to threaten communities such as Lynn Lake, Wabowden, Split Lake, Nelson House, Cranberry Portage and others.

At the beginning of June, the minister assured the House that there were adequate resources to handle the forest fire situation. Could the minister, first of all, give us an update on how many fires are burning and how many of these are out of control?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, as of 12:30 yesterday, we had a total of 63 fires burning. Forty-six were under control, 11 were out of control, no action on six of them, and approximately 17 new fires started the day before, and I do not have the final figures as to how many started yesterday.

The situation is very volatile and critical. The temperature is rising up to 35. Tomorrow, it is predicted to be 36. The dry conditions and high-wind conditions could not bode well for the province in terms of the fire conditions. We are on the verge of the situation of '89 at the present time in terms of the seriousness of the conditions.

Firefighting Resources

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): I thank the minister for that report.

Can the minister tell the House whether there are enough fire crews within Manitoba to handle the situation or whether help is being sought from outside of the province?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, we have well over a thousand trained people in the northern communities that have been trained for forest firefighting. We basically use the people that are available as required. When you have that many fires going, just human manpower is not enough. You have to have the equipment with that.

I have been extremely pleased and proud of the efforts made by our firefighting teams in terms of getting on these fires fast. The fact that most of the fires, you know, we catch them early on with the kind of equipment and identification system that we have in place. We can get most of the fires before they break out. Every once in a while, we lose one, and then, of course, the costs go up.

I have to say that a lot of money is being expended at the present time in firefighting, but compared to Saskatchewan and Alberta, we do a better job, I believe, with less funds because of the kind of people and equipment that we have in the field.

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Mr. Struthers: Madam Speaker, can the minister explain then, given the situation that we have with the forest fires in northern Manitoba, why communities such as Duck Bay and Camperville, who have trained and experienced firefighting crews, have, according to their town councils, not been contacted to provide assistance?

Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, I will not even start to second-guess how our firefighting operations go on, because I have had the opportunity to look at exactly how they do it, because very qualified people have been doing this for many, many years, senior people who know what is required in terms of movement of staff and equipment, and possibly, as pockets of fires start throughout the province, depending on the thunderstorms, men and equipment are moved there.

I just have to indicate to the House that we have a travel ban on, what we call phase 1. There are three phases of bans. If we have to, under these conditions, we might be looking at moving to a phase 2, which would basically control virtually all movement in the forested areas of Manitoba.

Winnipeg Arena

Construction Conditions

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Finance refused to make as a condition of the raising of the $111 million by the private sector, a condition for the construction of the new arena. During the frantic fall blitz of 1994, to sell club and luxury boxes, MEC apparently raised only about $5 million in pledged sales and sold less than 50 percent of the club seats and about 80 percent of the luxury boxes. Yet they are counting on raising or having contributed $20 million before the end of July from this source. In the heat of the summer, they are not going to likely close this sale.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am sure the honourable member for Crescentwood has a question.

Mr. Sale: Will the government require these funds, in fact, to be in place as a condition before beginning construction?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Well, it is good to see, Madam Speaker, that the member for Crescentwood follows the consistent path of being negative continually in trying to find solutions to keep the Winnipeg Jets here in Manitoba. We know very well the position of the NDP. They want to see the Winnipeg Jets wearing uniforms down in the United States.

In terms of the issue, it is the same question we had yesterday. The private sector, the Spirit of Manitoba, have three conditions to close this transaction by August 15. One is to raise an additional $20 million which will take the contributions from Manitobans up to $80 million, that is from individuals and that is from an extensive grassroots campaign that had thousands and thousands of Manitobans contribute. Another source of it is going to be some of the advance payments towards club seats and so on. The Spirit of Manitoba will be starting that activity again very shortly, picking up on where they left off in terms of marketing season tickets, marketing club seats and so on.

Winnipeg Jets/Arena

Private-Sector Funding

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Is the minister then, Madam Speaker, confirming that the private-sector fundraising target has now shrunk to $80 million from $111 million? Is that what the new target is?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): No, I am not confirming that at all, Madam Speaker. What the private sector will require as an original capital pool will be $111 million. That will come from individual contributions. It will also come initially from some contributions towards payments on club seats and so on. There will be a continuing process of the private sector to continue to get more public contribution to this operation.

I am sure, Madam Speaker, that if a successful solution is found here that will be an ongoing requirement for many years from the Spirit of Manitoba to continue to have the support of Manitobans, whether it is through purchasing season tickets or club seats or whether it is through making ongoing contributions to the Spirit of Manitoba here in our province.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, could the minister explain how the sale of season tickets, which are clearly operating revenues received in advance of an operation, can be considered as $10 million of capital in MEC's operating plan?

Mr. Stefanson: Well, again, I think unfortunately the member for Crescentwood is confusing capital and confusing cash. There are, Madam Speaker, cash requirements. There is the requirement to create a cash pool of $111 million to deal with the purchase of the hockey team, to deal with covering losses over the next two years while the team is in its existing facility and to create an endowment fund to sustain the team here for the next many years.

In the initial stages, some of that cash will come from the kinds of contributions towards club seats, contributions being made by Manitobans and so on. Over the next period of time, the private sector will continue to raise additional capital and continue to get contributions to the Spirit of Manitoba, to the endowment fund and so on.

I wish for once the members of the NDP in the opposition would start to try to be constructive on this issue, Madam Speaker, and work with Manitobans who want to find a solution to keep the team here in Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. There is time for one very short question.

The honourable member for Crescentwood, with a new question.

Winnipeg Jets/Arena

Endowment Fund

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Can the Minister of Finance tell the House whether the endowment fund and the charitable donation request is still part of the deal or not?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, in many respects, the member should be asking that of the private sector and of the Spirit of Manitoba.

My understanding is there is still potentially a requirement for an endowment fund, as we have told the members on many occasions. The issue of whether or not that qualifies as a deduction is an issue to be determined by Revenue Canada. The Spirit of Manitoba have indicated at their own news conference that they are dealing with Revenue Canada. They have indicated they have three conditions to close this transaction. One of them is a favourable ruling from Revenue Canada, Madam Speaker, and the Spirit of Manitoba will continue to deal with the federal government on that issue.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

Harry Bergman

Louis Riel Medallion

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): May I have leave for a nonpolitical statement, please?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for St. Boniface have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Gaudry: Madame la présidente, j'ai l'honneur de m'adresser à cette Chambre aujourd'hui pour saluer l'initiative de M. Harry Bergman, un fier Manitobain et Canadien. M. Bergman a réalisé le dessin et la frappe d'une médaille qui honore Louis Riel, fondateur du Manitoba, et qui commémore aussi l'entrée de notre province dans la Confédération. Cette oeuvre de M. Bergman fait revivre de manière toute spéciale un moment important de l'histoire du Canada et du Manitoba.

[Translation]

Madam Speaker, it is my privilege to address this Chamber today to acknowledge the initiative of Mr. Harry Bergman, a proud Manitoban and Canadian. Mr. Bergman executed the design and the striking of a medallion which honours Louis Riel, the founder of Manitoba, and which also commemorates the entry of our province into Confederation. Mr. Bergman's work is a very special reminder of an important moment in the history of Canada and Manitoba.

[English]

And I would say that Mr. Bergman is present in the gallery here this afternoon.

I know that through the grace of God I am the founder of Manitoba. After more than a century those memorable words that Louis Riel spoke at his trial in Regina on July 31, 1885, are finally being recognized and appreciated for their true worth. Louis Riel was, indeed, the founder of Manitoba and it is with pride that Manitobans and Canadians acknowledge this fact in this year commemorating the 125th anniversary of the entry of our province in the Canadian Confederation.

C'est grace au leadership de Louis Riel qu'aujourd'hui nous avons une province bilingue. Ce jeune homme de vingt-cinq ans, ce visionnaire, caressait le désir de créer une vision d'une province qui serait la pierre angulaire d'un pays qui s'étendrait d'un océan à l'autre. Certes, les 125 dernières années n'ont pas toujours été faciles. Mais, malgré tous les obstacles, ce fier peuple a persévéré et a obtenu la reconnaissance de ses droits.

[Translation]

It is thanks to Louis Riel's leadership that today we have a bilingual province. This young, twenty-five-year-old man, this visionary, held close to his heart the desire to create a vision of a province that would be the keystone of a country extending from ocean to ocean. Certainly, these past 125 years have not always been easy. Yet, despite all the obstacles, this proud people has persevered and gained recognition of its rights.

* (1100)

[English]

I am proud to acknowledge that my roots are deep in this soil of the Red River in this land that we now call Manitoba. My ancestors were the proud Metis nation who fought to have their rights and those of all peoples recognized by the governments. Theirs was the brave fight, theirs was the right cause. If today we have democratic institutions, representative of the population

and answerable to it, it is because of the leadership shown by the brave people of the Red River who 125 years ago stood up for their rights.

Merci beaucoup, Madame la présidente.

[Translation]

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I wonder if I may have leave to make a nonpolitical statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable Minister of Agriculture have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Enns: Well, Madam Speaker, I simply wish to rise and express similar sentiments that have just been so eloquently expressed by the honourable member for St. Boniface and certainly want to associate the government that I am proud to be part of with those comments.

It is a source of great personal satisfaction to me that I have been in this Chamber at a time that recognition officially came to somebody who I have always believed to have been a founding father of this province. I am pleased to see that recognition was extended in the federal Parliaments in the past few years. I am delighted, Madam Speaker, that we have at this particular time in our evolution of our province in the Lieutenant-Governor's house, a representative of the Metis people, that the honourable member for St. Boniface speaks so eloquently of, serving us as Lieutenant-Governor. Thank you very much.

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, may I have leave for a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Selkirk have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Dewar: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the official opposition, I would like to begin by thanking the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) for his letter today and his presentation to all members on this side of the House of the medallion designed by Mr. Bergman. I would like to pay tribute to Mr. Bergman today for the medallion.

We, of course, on this side of the House have recognized the efforts of Mr. Riel, both in this Chamber and at his graveside in St. Boniface. It was a pleasure a number of years ago for us to rise here to take part in the debate, the all-party resolution recognizing Mr. Riel as the founder of the province of Manitoba. As a Metis person myself, it is with great pride that I stand up today to support and congratulate the individual who designed the medallion and, once again, it gives us the opportunity to recognize the significant role that the Metis people played in the history of our province, especially this being the 125th anniversary of our province, Madam Speaker.

So with those few words, I thank you for the time.