ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

SmartHealth

Royal Bank Contract

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

Yesterday, after Question Period, we learned that the government had entered into an agreement with a subsidiary of the Royal Bank for a hundred-million dollar contract for an information system with the SmartHealth subsidiary of the Royal Bank. This contract lasts a number of years and requires considerable financial investment by the Province of Manitoba. The first payment is due in 18 months, Mr. Speaker.

We have a number of questions that were not answered by the government in its press release on the contract. I would like to ask the Premier, has the government signed the contract? Who was involved in vetting the contracts? Will they table the contract in the Chamber today?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I thank the honourable member for the question, which is a question about one of the most important health care initiatives to be undertaken by this or any other government in Canada, important not only for the effective delivery of health services in all of the health sectors, but also in terms of the convenience of the patient and the user of the health care system.

The announcement yesterday is the culmination of a number of things, Mr. Speaker. Thirty-three requests for information were sent out. Of those, 11 final bids were submitted. There was a vendor selection committee, and it examined all of the information packages that were sent out. There was a representative on that committee from the Manitoba Society of Seniors and from the Consumers' Association, as well as the Urban Health Advisory Council and others involved in the selection process.

The contract will flow from that information that was made available as a result of the request. We will endeavour to make every effort to make as much information as possible available to honourable members.

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Records Confidentiality

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, with the greatest of respect, I asked two questions: Has the contract been signed, and will the minister table the contract? Both of those questions the minister refused to answer. This is a $100-million investment of the people of Manitoba and surely members of this Chamber, particularly when the government does not have a mandate into the next 18 months--no one has--would have a copy of this contract so that we can know the legitimacy of the investment the government is making.

We have a number of questions dealing with confidentiality, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to ask the minister: Will the government be proposing legislation dealing with confidentiality of health records? How, for example, will an AIDS patient or a person who sees a psychiatrist be protected in terms of their own confidentiality with a system that seems to have access at unlimited numbers of terminals across the province of Manitoba?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, with due respect to the honourable Leader of the Opposition, I answered both of his questions. I told him that we are working towards the completion of a contract and that all information that we are able to make available to the honourable member, we will make available.

At this point, we are working with SmartHealth to arrive at the final contract.

With respect to the issue of confidentiality, it is an extremely important question, but in order to ask the question and maintain one's credibility one has to answer a question or two. For example, what information is it that the honourable member wants protection for that does not exist now, and from whom? The more and the better quality of information available to health providers, the better service that will be able to be delivered to the patient, so we need to know.

The honourable member referred to a couple of specific instances--psychiatric issues and issues related to AIDS--and the honourable member knows what protections are available to people now. We propose not only to maintain those protections through this system but to enhance them. So, as the nature of the public health information unfolds and becomes more known to honourable members, these questions will be answered.

In addition, we have taken the step, because I realize and so does everybody else that patient confidentiality is a fundamental issue and a very important one, that we will have an access and security committee just like we had when we were setting up the Drug Program Information Network which included organizations such as the Manitoba Association for Rights and Liberties, so we are very mindful of that as a concern. The honourable member opposite seems to have decided that these problems are there and they have not been solved, but he is dead wrong about that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, my question again to the minister was, does the government intend to bring in legislation to protect the confidentiality of people on an information system that has been set up with a subsidiary of the Royal Bank of Canada?

The minister did not answer the question whether they have any legislative protection in mind to deal with some of these very, very sensitive, confidential issues that the public of Manitoba will be asking all of us legitimately over the next period of time.

I would like to ask the minister, under the contract that has not been signed, who owns the information? Is it the subsidiary of the Royal Bank, the SmartHealth organization? Do they own the information? Do we own the information?

Can the minister table today the contractual language dealing with that information, and can the minister table today the legislative policies that must be put in place to protect the confidentiality of people in Manitoba?

Mr. McCrae: The honourable member seems to want to preserve a system where people's medical records were found in back alleys in the city of Winnipeg, under his administration. We want to improve that situation. Indeed, I do not blame the honourable member for asking these questions because they are perfectly legitimate concerns that he or members of the public would have.

The ownership of records, as it stands today, will remain under the new program. There will be no transfer of ownership of any kind of confidential information. I have no hesitation giving the honourable member whatever assurances are necessary to guarantee that the fundamental principle of privacy of information is respected under this system.

Indeed, it is our understanding of the contract that we will be entering into, that it will enhance people's rights in terms of the privacy of information about them.

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Health Sciences Centre

Budget

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, more promises that we have to take at face value from this government.

My question to the Minister of Health: We have learned that yesterday the board of directors of the Health Sciences Centre held an emergency executive meeting to discuss the government's proposed cuts to their budget, which are anticipated to be in the range of $15 million to $20 million for next year.

Can the minister confirm that and advise what the status of that is?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I think it is noteworthy that the honourable member for Kildonan should have been taken by such a surprise yesterday, that we would be announcing a public health information system.

I have tried at almost every public speaking engagement and in this House and everywhere else to give very broad hints that we were heading in that direction. It was in the throne speech, as well, so I find it hard to understand why the honourable member should be taken off guard in the way that he has been.

It might be helpful, Mr. Speaker, if the honourable member took me up on my offer of at least a dozen times now. Come and talk to me. Meet with me. We will discuss the directions we are taking in health. But he consistently refuses, and I suggest it is for less than savoury reasons.

The member asked about a meeting at Health Sciences Centre. I was not there. I was not invited, and I can only ask the honourable member to get in touch with the Health Sciences Centre.

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary to the minister, the question is quite simple. Perhaps the minister can try very hard to answer the question.

Can he confirm that they have advised the Health Sciences Centre to expect cuts in the range of $15 million to $20 million next year, which are far in excess of the guidelines released by their chief accountant Jules Benson? Can he confirm that those cuts are going to take place next year and that they have informed the Health Sciences Centre as of yesterday?

Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, as I understand the rules of this House, the honourable member should bring information and not seek confirmation from this side of the House. If he has some information that he wants to put on the record, let him do that.

A couple of weeks ago the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) met with hospital facilities administrators in this province and gave them a preview as to what might be expected for the upcoming fiscal year, and it would not be any surprise to me at all that hospital boards around Manitoba would be meeting and talking about how they are going to handle their budgets for the upcoming fiscal year.

We have worked very closely with the hospitals to assure that our bottom-line concern about patient care is being taken care of by the hospitals. We are given assurances by them in the ordinary course of doing business in the Department of Health and in their administrations that that is something that we do not discuss, any negative impact to patients. We will not allow discussion of items that would have a negative impact on patient care. That has been and remains our bottom line.

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Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I do not think that anyone in the province of Manitoba believes this government when it comes to health care.

My final supplementary to the minister: Can the minister outline what the impact of the proposed cuts to the Health Sciences Centre will be on patient care, because proposals that the Health Sciences Centre is considering include continuing Filmon Fridays and implementing the Connie Curran recommendations even greater than after the election which is when the government planned, et cetera?

Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, knowing the way the honourable member conducts himself in this House and throughout Manitoba, frankly it does not come as any surprise to me when he says he does not believe me. But when I tell him and I tell the people of Manitoba that we are spending $500 million more this year on health care in Manitoba than we were spending in 1988, those numbers speak for themselves. When I can show people in Manitoba and the honourable member the amount of money being spent in the community through massive increases to the personal care program, massive increases to the home care program and large increases in the number of procedures being done in this province, those numbers speak for themselves.

If the honourable member does not want to believe the facts and if he does not want to accept my invitation to come and talk about health care, then I cannot help him any further.

Health Sciences Centre

Budget

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health.

The minister indicated today, the emergency meeting that was held at Health Sciences Centre, that there will not be cuts of some $15 million to $20 million. There have been rumours and innuendo at the Health Sciences Centre for a number of weeks about what the nature of the potential cuts are going to be in the coming number of months.

The minister does have a responsibility to set the record straight and, in fact, indicate to Manitobans what has the hospital been directed in terms of the amount of money that they have been asked to save, and what was the nature of the emergency meeting.

Can the minister indicate to the House? Set it straight.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, the honourable member seems to attribute to me some confirmation of information. All I confirmed is that the hospitals have met with the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) to discuss in a general way the budgetary direction.

I think that is also set out to some extent in the Speech from the Throne, which points very, very clearly to a shift to the community, Mr. Speaker, of health care spending and priorities.

Those are areas that the honourable member repeatedly talks about in this House, urges the government to build a bigger and better community infrastructure, and that is exactly what we are doing. The past number of budgets in Manitoba demonstrate that very clearly, as do the services that are being provided for people in Manitoba show, as the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation confirms and bears out, that the moves that are being made are showing a great deal of foresight and respect for the care of our fellow Manitobans.

Ms. Gray: With a supplementary question to the Minister of Finance: Will the Minister of Finance then indicate to this House what the nature of the discussions have been with the hospitals in regard to their upcoming budgets?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): When we met with the boards and the CEOs of the hospitals and the personal care homes, Mr. Speaker, we provided a total allocation for 1995-96 of $1.2 billion, the same amount of money as is being provided in 1994-95 for hospitals, personal care homes and community health centres here in Manitoba.

Individual facilities are now receiving the detailed information in terms of what their allocation is, but I can only remind members of the Liberal Party and members of this House that we here in Manitoba spend the highest percentage of our budget on health care of any government in all of Canada at 34 percent. We have the third highest per capita allocation for health care, Mr. Speaker, and the budget consultation processes that we have been going through over the last weeks, Manitobans are telling us there is lots of money in the system. The focus has to be how that money is being spent and to address the shifts in the community, as our Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) has outlined, shifts to home care, shifts to personal care homes and so on.

That is exactly what is being done with the allocation of resources, Mr. Speaker, in terms of meeting the needs of Manitobans.

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Health Care System

Nursing Services

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): With a final supplementary to the Minister of Health, the minister must be aware that in order to ensure appropriate community-based services, you cannot starve the hospital system.

Nurses at the reception yesterday at MARN, at which a number of members were there, have indicated that they cannot afford to have nursing services in the hospitals cut any further.

Can the minister at least indicate to the House today, with the changes to funding that will be affecting the hospitals, can the minister assure us and nurses and Manitobans that, in fact, nursing services will not be jeopardized in our hospital system?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, we have taken a very, very careful approach to staffing realities and needs at our acute-care centres in Manitoba. We have spent a good deal of time studying that, along with the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses, the Manitoba Association of Licensed Practical Nurses, the College of Physicians and Surgeons. I was at the MARN reception last evening as well. I had a very nice time with the nurses there. We talked about important issues such as nurse-managed care, which is one component of the kind of shift that the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) was talking about.

Because we are making that shift, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance and my colleagues are able to make available funds so that we can establish nurse-managed care centres in Manitoba. That is something we are proud to work on with the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses so that we can develop that and develop community development programs and preventive and health promotion programs in various communities in Manitoba.

Aboriginal Justice Inquiry

Recommendations

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice.

In a new decision under The Law Enforcement Review Act a judge has again chastised this government for failing to act on the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report, in particular the key recommendation that the minister establish an investigation body which is independent from police forces, to look into serious acts alleged against the police. This recommendation of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report was based on the unfortunate experience in the Harper case. This time the judge found that the Brandon police were prone to adjust their evidence and did not proceed appropriately.

My question is: Would the minister commit finally now to put in place an independent process to investigate serious complaints made against police forces in this province?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, the specific case which the member refers to is one that I am not able to discuss. It is a case possibly still before the courts and therefore, as the member knows, entirely inappropriate to bring before this House and to discuss at this time.

In terms of our initiatives in aboriginal justice, this government has made significant progress in the area of aboriginal justice initiatives, right from the policing and through the courts area, through the probation area and corrections. As the member knows, at the moment we do have LERA which operates to investigate concerns of the public.

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, nothing is more appropriate than raising that case in this Legislature. She cannot hide behind some phoney rules of this House.

This is the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report. The minister has never seen this.

My question is: Given that we have increasingly heard from residents of northern Manitoba, particularly from Chief Geordie Little, from the MKO, that yes, you have serious backlogs in the courts in Winnipeg--but up here in the North nothing compares to the delays.

Mr. Speaker: Is there a question here, please?

Mr. Mackintosh: Given that we are aware of one-and-a-half-year waits for trial--

Mr. Speaker: Question, please. The honourable member for St. Johns, with your question, sir.

Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, given that we are told of waits of up to three years for court trials in the North, my question to the minister is: Would the minister now immediately review the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report and put in place the recommendations to ensure swift justice for northern Manitobans?

Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure which rules he has referred to as phoney rules of this House, but I would be very interested if the member for St. Johns would make himself clear about which rules he believes are phoney rules of this House.

As the member knows, again, there are rules which govern as Attorney General things which I cannot speak about. One is a case before the court.

In terms of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, this government, and I as minister, most certainly am familiar with the recommendations. So let me begin by telling the member and reminding him of some of the issues which we have addressed and are addressing very thoroughly, right from the policing end when we are looking at entering into First Nations policing agreements, through aboriginal court workers, through negotiations and entering into community participation agreements and in communities the naming of aboriginal magistrates within communities as well.

Mr. Speaker, the member continues to speak about what he calls court delays, and he continues to give information which is simply not correct. I would like to be able to take the opportunity to correct him and let him know exactly the length of time.

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Mr. Mackintosh: I would like to know what recommendations this minister has implemented, Mr. Speaker.

My question to the minister is: Would the minister now confirm what is one of the blackest clouds over this government that despite a little activity following the by-elections last year, this government has now walked away from even any framework discussions to put in place the Aboriginal Justice recommendations, that this minister has said no to aboriginal peoples and no to justice, Mr. Speaker?

Mrs. Vodrey: What a ridiculous comment that is, and the member knows full well, as do Manitobans.

This government, and again let me start from the beginning, spoke when the federal Liberal government came into power on behalf of our government. I made a trip to Ottawa to confirm with the federal minister that they were prepared to proceed with the First Nations policing policy.

When I had that information and confirmation from the federal minister on a Thursday, arrived back in Winnipeg by a Friday, we had our negotiators in the air going to aboriginal communities to negotiate First Nations policing agreements by Sunday evening.

We have acted very quickly. We have had some difficulty with the federal Liberal government in terms of their commitment to the court process; however, in areas where we are able to act on our own in Manitoba the naming of aboriginal magistrates, the movement towards community participation agreements for corrections, we have done so. We have a very significant record.

Education System

Physical Education

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, we have letters, we have petitions, we have reports from community organizations, urging this government to reconsider its proposal to eliminate physical education from the high school core curriculum.

We now know that one of the government's own health committees has also recommended to increase physical education right through to Grade 12 as a required course.

I would like to ask the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) why he is brushing this off and saying it is not a Health issue and brushing it off with letters recommending the Minister of Education deal with this when his own health advisory committees are recommending an increase in physical education for school children in Manitoba.

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, the member is in error. The Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) and indeed this whole government is not brushing off those statements that were made and take them very, very seriously. That is why the very essence of the curriculum and the core subject areas from Grades 1 to 8 will include, of course, compulsory physical education. Indeed, compulsory from nine to 12 will occur in those schools also where the parents accept their responsibility and judge accordingly, and I am sure in virtually every school in the province of Manitoba physical education will be compulsory.

The very essence of the reforms are trying to take 12 years of literacy training and trying to compress them into 10, and to give students a greater opportunity to practise in the field of technology, practise in the field of skills training and to put into place vocational education, co-operative education outside of the school. Students that are going to take part in that have to have some greater flexibility. So this government and certainly I know the Minister of Health does not disagree in any fashion with those statements made.

Ms. Cerilli: Mr. Speaker, the minister should know there are studies that show academic learning increases when students participate in physical education.

I am going to table a letter addressed to me where the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) refers my correspondence to the Minister of Education saying, it is not a Health issue, it is an Education issue. I would like to ask the minister if he has recommended or made the recommendation from his advisory committee known to his cabinet and to his Minister of Health, and if he has not done this on this crucial important issue to the health of Manitoba children and youth, why he has not made the recommendation known--

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put her question.

Mr. Manness: Mr. Speaker, I accept, and I know the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) accepts, all of the comments made by the research leading to this. The government totally accepts that, and that is why of course we would sense that parent councils in the 800 schools in Manitoba will also accept those statements.

Ms. Cerilli: My final supplementary is to the Minister of Health.

I would ask him if he would not at this time acknowledge that this is a critical preventative health issue for young people in Manitoba and if he will raise the issue in cabinet so it can be discussed and reconsidered.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Health, and I think all of my colleagues, we have never said anything but that physical education for young people is extremely important.

Hog Industry

Marketing System

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, some weeks ago, as the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) referenced a few days ago, I was at a meeting with him and with the honourable member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) regarding the hog industry and the recent report of Mr. Moore and Mr. Gilson that was provided to the minister.

There has been quite a lot of discussion amongst the hog producing industry. There are some 2,300 of them in this province. There is a lot of concern about what the minister's intentions are with respect to that report. At the very least, the hog producers made the very strong statement that they felt they had not been adequately included in the consultation process.

Can the minister clarify today for members of the House and for the industry what his intentions are with respect to the key recommendation of that report which is to move away from the single-desk marketing system to a dual marketing system, Mr. Speaker? Can he clarify what his intentions are, what the process is in his office with respect to that report?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, I thank the honourable member for the question. Let me first of all acknowledge the fact that Manitoba hog producers are going through a difficult pricing period with respect to some current oversupplies in the North American red meat market. That I think is their first and immediate concern at this point in time.

I just yesterday met with the chairman, Mr. Ken Foster, of Manitoba Pork, along with members of his board, to deal with that very specific issue of concern to hog producers in the province.

Mr. Speaker, the major recommendations--and there are many that are included in the report that is referred to by the Leader of the third party--include the recognition that other changes taking place in agriculture, notably the disappearance of the support for the movement of grain and feed prices out of Manitoba, place a particular onus on Manitoba and on the Department of Agriculture to provide whatever it takes for continued livestock expansion in the province.

One of the recommendations has been that Manitoba Pork and pork producers in the industry should look at a freer and more flexible marketing system referred to, as the member indicated, as a dual marketing system. That and many other conditions are being seriously considered by this government.

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Mr. Edwards: Well, Mr. Speaker, no doubt it is being seriously considered by the government.

My further question for the minister: I am glad to hear that he met with Mr. Foster, I believe he said yesterday. What is the process which the minister is going to embark on to expand, Mr. Speaker, the circle of consultation, and, in particular, to include the some 2,300 independent hog producers in this province, who made it very clear that they felt they had been left out of the consultation process leading up to the report?

What is the process, if any, that the minister and Manitoba Pork and others have agreed upon to further expand the consultation process to the some 2,300 producers in this province, who have made it clear, I believe in some significant numbers, that they feel they would like the opportunity to give further advice to the minister before he takes the precipitous act of doing away with the current marketing system?

Mr. Enns: Mr. Speaker, allow me to very quickly correct the impression just left by the honourable member for St. James, the Leader of the third party, that there has been no suggestion contained in the report that he refers to or by any comments that I have made about doing away with the present system. What we have talked about is adding some flexibility to this system.

I reject, secondly, that we have not consulted with Manitoba hog producers. In the very first instance, Manitoba Pork is duly elected, with members who are represented from all hog producers in the province of Manitoba.

They were the very first and have been continually consulted through this process. It is no different than, I suppose, if the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) or the Minister of Education (Mr. Manness) meets with the leadership of the duly elected people representing the nurses or the teachers or the school trustees in dealing with matters of concern in his department.

In addition to that, as the member can attest to himself, as indeed the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) can attest to, I have accommodated by myself and my staff being present at any and all meetings where hog producers choose to gather, as they did in Grosse Isle in large numbers, as they did at Hog and Poultry Days the other day at the Convention Centre and as they have done in Altona and will be doing throughout the province.

Mr. Speaker, I only gain in meeting with the primary producers of Manitoba where and whenever it occurs.

Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, no doubt they, as Manitoba Pork, at every one of those meetings, have made it absolutely clear to this minister that it is by no means clear to them, that there needs to be the type of significant change to the marketing system to achieve the type of growth the minister is talking about.

The reality is, pork production has doubled in the last 15 years under this current marketing scheme.

Has the minister made up his mind already, Mr. Speaker, that single-desk marketing needs to be scrapped to achieve further growth?--because that is by no means clear to the members of this party nor to the 2,300 producers out there.

Mr. Enns: Mr. Speaker, I welcome the attention that my colleague the honourable member for St. James (Mr. Edwards) is paying to this important aspect of agriculture.

Let me also put on the record, it was a visionary and aggressive Minister of Agriculture who now sits in this Chamber as Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey) that said a little over a decade ago: Let us try to double the hog production in Manitoba. I congratulate the hog producers of Manitoba. They have done that and provided thousands of jobs while they have done that.

Mr. Speaker, not wanting to be satisfied with the status quo we are facing some particular challenges which I mentioned: the disappearance of the WGTA, the tremendous new trade opportunities that the international trade obligations that our country has entered into has opened up doors for us in Japan, in China, in Korea, in Indonesia, not to speak of our immediate neighbours to the south. All of these reasons indicate the necessity for addressing the opportunities in the pork industry, and they are so being addressed by this report.

Natural Gas

Rural Manitoba

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, another issue that is very important to rural Manitoba is the expansion of natural gas.

The Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), in his prebudget consultation meeting last year, indicated that this was one of the important issues that was raised. However, the announcement has not become a reality, and the expansion has run into difficulties because of the high requirement of sign-up rate in residential. Even though it has been reduced there are still problems with it.

My question is to the minister responsible for the process of expanding natural gas through rural Manitoba. What steps is this government going to take to ensure that there is an expansion of natural gas into rural Manitoba so we can have the economic growth that we desperately need there?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Mr. Speaker, I can certainly assure the member for Swan River that this government has taken every possible action to try and encourage communities who have worked with Centra Gas to get the necessary sign-ups to enter into agreements so that natural gas can be extended into those communities.

Mr. Speaker, we set a fairly aggressive agenda out when we signed the agreement with Centra and with the communities in a partnership with the federal government, our own provincial government and with municipalities to try and expand natural gas into many of the rural communities in Manitoba.

Of those communities, Mr. Speaker, I understand there are about eight that are now ready to go, and others are looking towards an opportunity in the very near future to have the necessary numbers signed up to get expansion going into their communities.

Ms. Wowchuk: But I asked the minister what steps is this government taking to aggressively promote the expansion of natural gas.

We have seen ads that promote the REDI grants and grants to small businesses, but are they doing anything to aggressively promote the expansion of natural gas, or are they leaving it all in Centra's hands?

This is an important project. You have said it is important. What are you doing to promote--

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put her question.

Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, several things have happened in the course of the natural gas expansion.

First of all, there was an agreement signed with Centra Gas and with the communities that were identified for the expansion of natural gas. Secondly, this government has put in a significant amount of money into the expansion of natural gas into the rural communities that do not have it. Thirdly, we do have personnel within the Department of Rural Development and also Energy and Mines who have worked with communities and continue to do that and also from the infrastructure secretariat who continue to work with communities in making sure that we have the necessary sign-ups addressed.

Meetings are going on almost daily to encourage people to sign up and to make this project a success in all the communities that have been identified.

Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, since the Clean Environment Commission recommended that the RTO emission controls be put into the Louisiana-Pacific plant, and to have that RTO operate, we need to have natural gas into the area.

Will the government talk to Centra Gas to ensure that the amount of gas used by Louisiana will be taken into consideration, since that amount is equivalent to that which is needed in the town of Swan River? That has to be taken into consideration in this expansion.

Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, it is nice to see the member for Swan River now stand up and give her support to Louisiana-Pacific. Unfortunately, that has not always been evident from the members opposite.

We know, Mr. Speaker, that Louisiana-Pacific is an important member in the use of natural gas, and that certainly will be taken into account when the project is being identified and being worked on in the communities of Swan River and Minitonas.

Air Safety

Dauphin, Manitoba

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, on Monday, the Transportation Safety Board called into question Transport Canada's ability to ensure air safety.

In June, the federal Liberal government's transport department closed the flight services station at Dauphin airport, throwing some six staff out of work. These six people were replaced with automatic environmental services, equipment which was found to be faulty in both Edmonton and Montreal.

My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Has this minister received any notice from the federal Liberal government or Transport Canada concerning the problems with the AES system? What action does he intend to take to correct the potential air safety problem?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, my understanding is the AWOS equipment that the member is referring to is used in some 50 locations across Canada. In two locations that he has mentioned, I think Edmonton and Montreal, some problems were found with the equipment. They are aware of those problems. They are working on them. There is only one location in Manitoba where that equipment is currently in place, and that is Dauphin. We are not aware of any safety problems as a result of it.

I want to assure the member, we are going to keep a close eye on Transport Canada with regard to whether they do adequately address the issues that they have identified with the equipment they have in place.

It is not a significant issue at this time, but in large airports certainly Transport Canada is taking the right action.

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Northern Manitoba

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, I believe this is the same equipment that is now going to be used in both Norway House, Berens River and Island Lake airports.

I want to ask this minister if he has determined whether or not this is indeed the same equipment that has been found to be faulty. What action does he plan to take to ensure the safety of the travelling public and the aircraft operations in northern Manitoba?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, the member has identified that equipment is to be put in place. It is equipment for atmospheric environmental activities, and we are working with Transport Canada to ensure that air safety is paramount in this province as we want it also to be across Canada.

Recent comments that came out, as the member might have noticed in today's paper, are reason for grave concern, that there is some problem between Transport Canada and the safety board with regard to air safety in this province--a very serious issue which we are going to ask the federal minister to take immediate action on to be sure that the cost-cutting that the federal Liberal government is now doing does not in any way impede with adequate consumer safety in the air in Canada.

Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.