LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, June 20, 1994

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

PRAYERS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill 202‑‑The Health Care Records Act

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, I move that leave be given to introduce Bill 202, The Health Care Records Act; Loi sur les dossiers médicaux, and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable member for Kildonan, seconded by the honourable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that leave be given to introduce Bill 202, The Health Care Records Act; Loi sur les dossiers médicaux, and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, this bill has been introduced in previous form by the former member for St. Johns. It meets with something I am sure that all members of this House can agree with in the new spirit of a new developing co‑operation in health care. This bill reflects our changing health care system by providing for patient rights and self‑determination amongst patients.

It is part of the spirit of the consumer movement and consistent with real health care reform. It provides for a legislative mechanism to enable health care consumers to have access to their own medical records, and it proposes the enshrinement of this principle in the confidentiality of the law. The bill can only mean, in our view, better informed health consumers, more openness and trust between consumers and caregivers and improvement in our health care system.

I hope that all members of the House will join us in passage of this bill. Thank you.

Motion agreed to.

Introduction of Guests

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon from the Lord Roberts Community School twenty‑four Grade 5 students under the direction of Mr. Bill Miller. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Osborne (Ms. McCormick).

Also, from the Garden Grove School, we have thirty Grade 5 students under the direction of Mrs. Susan Chernetz. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux).

On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Burns Committee

Report Tabling Request

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Premier.

Thirty‑one months ago the Premier signed a letter of endorsation dealing with the province paying 50 percent of the operating losses of the Winnipeg Jets hockey team, Mr. Speaker, and just as recently as early June, we found out the full implications with the projected losses that were made public by the Provincial Auditor to the Public Accounts committee.

Mr. Speaker, the government has since that time had a number of committees, the Mauro committee. It has had another committee called the Burns committee which it created December 15, 1993, to assess the private sector lending and investment interests in the Winnipeg Arena and private sector interest in the Winnipeg hockey team.

It is now 10 days before the deadline that the Premier negotiated as part of his Jets loss agreement that he signed in November of 1991.

Mr. Speaker, we would like to know, does the government have the Burns committee report? It is public knowledge that they have been briefed by the Burns committee. Do they have the report, and can we see the options that are available to the public of Manitoba and to this Legislature? We only have 10 days to go before the deadline. We would like to have both the options and the ability to have a public debate as it affects the public funds of the Province of Manitoba.

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I repeat for the Leader of the Opposition comments I have made throughout the course of last week in response to similar questions. No, I do not have the Burns report, and yes, I will make it public when I receive it.

Public Accounts Committee

Winnipeg Jets

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Ten days to go on a matter of such serious importance, clearly beyond the deadline that the Premier established for the Burns committee, Mr. Speaker. We are very concerned that we will not have any public debate or any public input or any time for public debate, given the fact that the clock is ticking and we are only 10 days away.

We have had reports already from former MLAs, Ed Connery, from Harold Neufeld, that there was very little information shared with the previous government's caucus. We have Don Mitchelson, a former city councillor, saying, we were told to downplay the potential losses. We had the Auditor today say in committee that the disclosure by this Premier was minimal in terms of the losses that they were aware of as early as October of 1991.

I would like to ask the Premier, how will he ensure that the public is involved in these issues at this last moment, Mr. Speaker? We had last time a secret set of negotiations with numbers that were not disclosed by the Premier. Will the Premier now agree to have all those numbers under the Burns report go to the Public Accounts committee so the Provincial Auditor can review those numbers and the public can be involved in all the options and the implications of those options for the people of Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, it is kind of interesting that the Leader of the Opposition is quoting as his authority one individual who acknowledges he was not in cabinet at the time when the matter was decided by cabinet, and a second individual who acknowledges he was not there at the meeting that made the decision.

So he has engaged in what he said he would not do in the weekend paper, which is speculation based on speculation‑‑absolutely foolish, but that is the basis on which this Leader of the Opposition deals in very important issues. He speculates on speculation, and that forms his definitive position, Mr. Speaker.

I have said, Mr. Speaker, that the information of the Burns report will be made public, and he can then base his decision on that.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we are not speculating on the fact that the Premier had the numbers and the projected losses in October of 1991, and he withheld them from the public debate. He withheld them from this Legislature. He withheld them from the debate on the options available about the hockey team until the Auditor was able to obtain those numbers in June of 1994.

We had called for a public debate on the issue of the Jets hockey team as early as September of 1991, when then we knew the government was conducting secret negotiations. We are now pleading with the Premier. These are public losses that are at stake, Mr. Speaker. We want the public to be involved. We want the Legislature to be involved. We do not want any more secret last‑minute deals.

Will the Premier now assure this House and the people of Manitoba that this matter will go to the Public Accounts committee so that we may debate the merits of what the government is going to do on the basis of the facts that will be before the public, facts we did not have until just recently on the Premier's former deal on the Jets losses?

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Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, the information that we had in 1991 was highly speculative information. It was best‑guess predictions as to what might happen with a whole series of potential changes and variables that were out there. At this point in time, the only thing the provincial government has put out is $2.5 million towards losses.

What we do know is that our best advice continues to be that the direct revenues to government will be more than double what the potential losses to government will be. That is the best information we continue to have, and it is as valid today as it was at the time the decision was made.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, as I have said to him, when the Burns report, with all of the information which it may contain, whether it be best‑guess information, whether it be firm information, whether it be speculative information, will be put forward, that will be known to the public, all of the public, just as it will be known to the Leader of the Opposition, and they will make their judgments based on it.

Department of Health

Political Interference

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, one week ago we tabled in this Chamber a letter from the head of the largest hospital in the province indicating a major contradiction in terms of what the government had said about health care. On Friday we raised in this Chamber a statement raised by Manitoba's chief medical officer suggesting political interference which was later apparently contradicted by the deputy minister. Public health care is too important to leave these questions unanswered.

My question today for the Premier is: Will the Premier announce an independent third party in the guise of someone like Ted Hughes to investigate political interference and contradictions at the Department of Health immediately to deal with these serious issues?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, there has been no allegation of political interference and, in fact, the deputy minister has taken full responsibility for the‑‑[interjection] Members opposite find it foolish to be told the truth. They laugh about it.

Because of the concern, legitimate concern, of a contradiction between‑‑[interjection] Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman), who is not allowed to ask questions because he is an embarrassment to his party, I wonder if he would at least please be quiet and let me respond.

Mr. Speaker, because of the concern that we have, as well as members opposite, as well as members of the public, about the contradiction in testimony between two members of the senior staff of the Department of Health, it is my understanding that the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae), who is on his way back from a funeral in Brandon, has drafted a letter to the Ombudsman asking the Ombudsman to investigate this matter and to determine just exactly what the facts are in the situation.

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, will the First Minister ensure that the documents in question, the August 20 memo, the August 22 memo and the other documents relating to this matter, will be tabled in the Legislature so the public can have access and be able to examine this information first‑hand?

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, is the member suggesting he does not trust the Ombudsman to review that situation? If he is, then I think that his desire for his own political interests exceeds his desire to find the facts out in a situation, and that is reprehensible.

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is particularly sensitive on this. No one has ever suggested, least of all members in this House, the Ombudsman cannot be trusted. We do have questions about some of the issues arising with this government.

My final supplementary to the Premier: There are more issues than just this that are in question. I have a series of memos of things approved by the deputy minister during the last provincial election that were never instigated, and these may have been politically involved. How do we go about investigating those? Should we send those to the Ombudsman, or are we going to have another independent‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.

Mr. Filmon: I repeat, Mr. Speaker, we will have the issue that was raised before the Krever inquiry referred to the Ombudsman for his investigation and report back.

Winnipeg Jets

Agreement Deadline

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier.

Just over a month ago, Mr. Shenkarow, representing the majority owners of the Winnipeg Jets hockey club, indicated publicly that he had agreed to extend the June 30 deadline and therefore there was no longer any hurry. The Premier in fact spoke about that when we were in Executive Council Estimates and indicated that it was his understanding that that was the case and therefore that was a reason for not, in any way, wanting or needing to push the Burns committee. We are now at a stage where Mr. Shenkarow appears to have withdrawn that offer to extend and similarly we are coming close to the June 30 deadline. The Burns report has not come down, and there is no indication as to when exactly it will.

What does the Premier intend to do in the ensuing 10 days with respect to this timetable which Mr. Shenkarow is now apparently holding us to? Does he favour specifically a government exercising that $32‑million option to purchase the Winnipeg Jets?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): No, I do not, Mr. Speaker.

Private Investors

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, is the Premier then, in any way, prior to the Burns report coming down, looking for, in co‑operation with the City of Winnipeg, other investors who might take the benefit of that option?‑‑because in his Executive Council Estimates on May 2 he specifically indicated that that option can also be one in which the two levels of government actually name the optionee, so it does not have to be government.

Is government actively looking for other investors or is that something that they expect the Burns committee to do because, if they do not report before June 30, that may be irrelevant?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I know of no other people at the moment who have the capital to be able to exercise that option and are willing to utilize it for that purpose. I will await the report of the Burns committee on the matter.

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Burns Committee

Report Tabling Request

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the First Minister has indicated that he has not seen the report‑‑it is now coming on three months late‑‑and he has indicated that we will have it before the end of the session. He indicated that last week and that it will be the subject of debate in the session.

Can he indicate whether or not we are going to have it before the June 30 deadline?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): To my knowledge, yes.

Hog Industry

Impact on Water Quality

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, everyone here knows that jobs in this province and in the Interlake and agricultural jobs are important, but also the importance of the quality and supply of our water. Three weeks ago, I brought to this government's attention the concerns of many residents in the Interlake area who feel that the supply of water quality may become a thing of the past.

Has the minister responded to the recommendation by the advisory board and concerned citizens to review the amount of water used in Chatfield and Silver and how it will affect the future supply of quality water?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, I do not have that information‑‑if he is referring to the request to Water Resources, or if he is referring to the water quality issue. If he is referring to the review by Water Resources, they have an ongoing review and are prepared to substantiate the numbers.

Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Speaker, I was referring to both.

The guidelines for the hog operations were just released last Friday. Residents of these communities are asking the government to do an impact study to assure that the lakes and the water supply are safe today. Will the Minister of Environment conduct a study?

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, that is a fascinating question that the member for Interlake is raising. He is asking for a generic environmental assessment of the Interlake region prior to allowing any development in the area of livestock production. If that is what he is saying, then I think he should come out and be more clear.

Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Speaker, when will this minister initiate a complete environmental audit in this area with the input of livestock producers, fishermen, concerned citizens, LGDs, so that we can all be assured that a supply of quality water will be available today and in the future?

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, I must admit that I am a little bit disappointed in the approach the member is assuming in relationship to this issue because I do not think I want to become involved in fear or smear and innuendo that many people are now putting forward about what are rumoured to be, and I emphasize the words "rumoured to be," concerns that have been raised in relationship to development in that area.

There are a number of issues that are raised in the media today that, in fact, have been investigated, and the answers have been made available, but yet they are repeated here again today as if they were ongoing mysteries and facts.

So I say to the member for Interlake, if he is asking on behalf of his constituents that he would delay any potential development in that area based on a complete environmental assessment of the area, then I would ask him to stand up and be clear.

Northern Fly‑In Sports Camps

Lottery Revenues

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Lotteries.

Last week, I rose in this House to raise the issue of the northern fly‑in sports camps that began in 1986. Considering the $200‑million revenue that this government has received from lotteries and a fair chunk of that from northern communities, I would like to ask the minister, given the huge increase in these revenues, why the fly‑in camps have not been given an increase in their funding. The $50,000 apparently committed appears to be not appropriate to run these programs in northern communities.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Foundation Act): Mr. Speaker, inadvertently, due to certain matters of House business, I was unable to hear the member's question. I would ask him, please, to repeat it again.

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Mr. Robinson: Last week, I raised this matter in the House concerning the northern fly‑in sports camps that began in 1986 in Manitoba. These are very much needed in many of the northern remote communities, and considering that this government has attained a $200‑million revenue from lotteries, my question to the minister was that, considering the huge revenue that has been realized by this government from lotteries, and a fair amount of that coming from northern communities, why there has not been an increase of the currently $50,000 committed?

Mr. Ernst: Mr. Speaker, I regret I do not have the response for the honourable member that I should have had, and I apologize for that. I will endeavour to get that immediately for him.

Mr. Speaker: Taken as notice. Okay.

Mr. Robinson: These communities have very high unemployment. It appears to me that it would make more sense to increase the support for these camps so that more young people can be hired and more communities can take advantage of this very meaningful program.

Mr. Ernst: Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the great success that the northern fly‑in sports camps have had. As a matter of fact, there are public statements on the record that crime has been reduced as a result of these activities, that sniffing and other activities that have occurred from time to time are down because of the activities of these sports camps. I agree with the member, so I will endeavour to get him the earlier information that he had requested.

Mr. Robinson: One of the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, and I would like to quote that recommendation, says that the funding for the northern fly‑in sports camps can be firmly established and that the camps should be expanded to provide services to all northern aboriginal communities.

The number of communities served has dropped from 16 to just six in the past two years. Should the government not be putting greater support into a program that directly cuts down on youth crime and provides role models and major benefits to the communities affected?

Mr. Ernst: Mr. Speaker, I am not familiar with all the information the member has brought. I will look into that matter and report back.

Social Assistance

Special Needs Fund

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Family Services will be aware that social assistance is intended to only meet people's basic needs for food, shelter, clothing, personal needs and household needs. What she and her government may not appreciate nor understand is that all other expenses and emergencies, insurance, everything else, is covered, or has been covered in the past by the $150 special needs fund, $150 per year.

Can the minister confirm that a new policy directive has gone out which extremely limits the items that can be covered by the special needs fund?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): In review of our social safety net programs in the province of Manitoba we have endeavoured to continue to provide the support where it is absolutely needed. In the area of special needs requirements there have been some changes in the policy this year, but those services required for new mothers, for infants, for children, for school supplies and for a lot of the other necessities, have been maintained, and they will continue to be available to those who are in need.

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Mr. Martindale: The problem with this policy is that the number of items has been greatly restricted.

Will the minister confirm that her department has decided they would rather pay out for things like refurnishing an entire apartment after a fire than cover things that have been covered in the past such as tenant package insurance?

Mrs. Mitchelson: I will just read out for the information of my honourable friend who has asked the question and for all members of the Legislature and the public, Mr. Speaker, those items that will continue to be available under the special needs policy are, an allowance of up to $250 for a first child and $75 for each subsequent child to provide items necessary for the newborn such as a crib layette, et cetera. Where no other alternative is feasible, the purchase or repair of a washing machine, refrigerator or a stove will still be covered.

On an as‑required basis, where recipients cannot find furnished accommodations, a one‑time start‑up allowance of up to $500 for the purchase of household furniture is provided in certain circumstances, such as a disabled person leaving an institution or parental home or a recently separated sole‑support parent who was not able to obtain marital property. Also, the actual replacement cost of a mattress, box spring and frame to be provided a maximum of once every seven years, and bedding to be provided on a maximum of once every three years.

Mr. Speaker, moving costs approved by the program, such as moves to confirmed employment, will be covered. School supplies for dependent children will be covered as follows: Kindergarten to Grade 6 up to $40; Grade 7 and Grade 8 up to $60; Senior 1 to Senior 4 up to $80.

The list goes on, and I will continue in my next response.

Mr. Martindale: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for the list, which of course I already have. The minister misses the point. She will not admit that the policy has been completely tightened up to put the screws to the poor. That is what she will not admit.

Mr. Speaker: What is your question, sir?

Mr. Martindale: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask if the minister will confirm that since the Canada Assistance Plan regulations have not been changed and the Social Allowances regulations in the province of Manitoba have not been changed, is it not true that people can still apply and have their needs met since this was not a regulatory change, it was only a change in her department's policy?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, those special needs items which are required as a program of last resort will still continue to be provided. Each individual case will be assessed on an individual basis, and where there are exceptional circumstances warranted, we will review, as I said, on an individual basis, each case.

I make no apologies for ensuring that social assistance is paid to those that are most vulnerable in our community and those basic needs are met.

WRAP Act

Junk Mail

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Environment.

I must commend the minister on his work on The WRAP Act, but I do have some concerns. My concerns are around the issue of flyers, better known as junk mail.

I am wondering, seeing as the minister is tightening up the act to see that producers pay for the recycling of most of the products, will the producers of the flyers and junk mail be responsible within the act?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, we certainly anticipated that the large volume of material that is affectionately referred to as junk mail would contribute towards the cost of its removal from the waste stream.

Mr. Laurendeau: Mr. Speaker, will the minister be approaching Canada Post towards paying their share, seeing as Canada Post does send out approximately 3.9 billion pieces across this country, with a revenue exceeding $211 million?

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, it is a fact that a very high volume of unsolicited mail comes from Canada Post. While we have been in contact with Canada Post, we have not yet received confirmation that they will contribute to the cost of recycling in this province. It is our hope that while they may not feel responsible to the act, they will in fact make a voluntary contribution to support this recycling program.

Deputy Minister of Health

Reassignment

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to hear the Premier indicate today that the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) will be speaking with the Ombudsman and asking him to review the apparent discrepancies between comments from the Deputy Minister of Health and the chief medical officer of Health.

I am wondering if the Premier can indicate for us today, with all due respect to the Deputy Minister of Health, given that there is this cloud of suspicion surrounding the office, will he be temporarily reassigned until the Ombudsman presents his report?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, what I believe we have here is not a cloud of suspicion but rather a disagreement between two professionals as to the handling of a particular issue. I do not think that warrants the removal of the deputy minister in the circumstances.

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Public Health Act

Amendments

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): With a supplementary to the Premier, and we would hope that he would confer with the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) and reconsider that particular decision and in fact have the Deputy Minister of Health temporarily reassigned.

Dr. John Guilfoyle has also indicated that his job is somewhat impeded by an antiquated Public Health Act. I am wondering if the Premier can indicate to us if we can expect to see amendments to that Public Health Act in this session.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I know the minister will be examining the comments of Dr. Guilfoyle and looking into whether or not changes ought to be made, given his testimony before the Krever inquiry.

Ombudsman Review

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): With a final supplementary to the Premier: Can the Premier indicate, is it possible for the Ombudsman to also look at the nature of The Public Health Act which talks about a minister's and a deputy minister's ability to override the decisions of a chief medical officer of Health? Can that be part of the review as well?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I think that what we want to get at is the difference in testimony between two professionals. I do not think we want to get into a policy decision which is really overall the issue to do with the provincial government's policy on the issue.

I said that I am sure the minister will be examining that issue, and I am confident that he will, because we take the advice and the testimony of Dr. Guilfoyle seriously, and we want to examine it and see whether or not there is merit to making changes in the act.

I believe that what the Ombudsman ought to be doing is examining a clear difference in testimony under oath before the Krever commission and determining how this conflict between the two senior officials of the department occurred and try to sort out and give us recommendations as to how to deal with it. That is the matter that we are referring to, I believe, the Ombudsman.

Used Tires

Storage Site Regulations

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, a fire on Panet Road yesterday was oddly enough at the Reliable Tire Company, and it burned approximately 150 tires and was likely set by burning garbage. It could have burned thousands of tires inside and outside the building.

I would like to ask the Minister of Environment what type of guidelines are in place, or will this government bring in, to make sure that tires are not being stolen or burned in these sites, to make sure that there is going to be some protection in these sites where tires are being stored.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): There are a couple of parts to that question. First of all, we have every intention of working with any of the operators who may accumulate larger volumes of tires, that they are safely stored and that they are not stored in such a way that fire could easily spread from one grouping of tires to another.

Secondly, however, the member questioned whether or not tires might be burned at these sites. In fact, now that tires have a value, I would think that it is very unlikely. Certainly if she has information or a belief that someone was, other than for mischievous or for arson purposes, in fact burning tires, then I would certainly appreciate receiving it. That is not the information that I have received at this point.

Ms. Cerilli: Mr. Speaker, will the minister table a list of all of the sites authorized in Manitoba to store tires? Will he include emergency provisions in that document or list, including provisions for water run‑off protection in case there is a fire of in‑store tires in the province?

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, I guess the member is asking if we are prepared to regulate municipal waste disposal grounds where significant numbers of tires are accumulated, along with private industry. The approach we have taken is that if there are significant accumulations of tires, they must be adequately segregated and kept in a manner so that it would not be easy for a fire to occur or, secondly, to spread.

I must indicate to the member that we have had a very successful six months recently in the tire recycling program that is occurring in this province. In fact, the number of tires that are being removed from the waste stream and recycled is about equal to the number of tires that are being sold in this province on a month‑over‑month basis.

So we are now dealing with the backlog, and I think that the issue the member raises will in fact be very much alleviated through the process of our tire recycling program.

Ms. Cerilli: Mr. Speaker, the tires are not being recycled if they are stockpiled in communities, in East Kildonan, Transcona and St. Boniface.

I would ask the minister: What are the environmental impacts such as chemicals released into the air due to these tire fires? Is there money from the $4 million that has been collected from the tire tax since 1992 that is going to go into ensuring that the environment is protected and ensuring that tires are not stockpiled in an unsafe manner?

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, we undertook to make sure that every dollar that was collected from the tire‑buying public on behalf of recycling of the tires, in fact, goes back into that process to assure them that the tires are being removed and recycled. Naturally, the issues that the member raises are regulatory ones that we will deal with through the Department of Environment. If the member has evidence of some site where she thinks there are tires that have been accumulated improperly or unnecessarily, then I would appreciate that information.

Mr. Speaker, there have always been large accumulations of tires in this province. There are some very large significant dealers who operate within the tire industry in this province. I would find it quite puzzling if someone is accumulating used tires for any other purpose than to get the $2.50 rebate back from the tires, because if someone is in fact doing this, they are going to wait a long time before they see it go up. In fact, industries are now competing with each other to obtain those tires to move them into recycling systems. So I am more than confident that this is an issue that can be properly controlled.

Goods and Services Tax

Food/Prescription Drugs

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Finance.

It is reported today that the parliamentary committee reviewing the GST is going to report on a number of changes on the tax. I know the previous Leader of the Opposition, now the Prime Minister, did promise, in fact, I believe in Brandon that the GST would be scrapped.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very, very serious financial issue because it does affect every consumer in Canada. It affects every consumer certainly in Manitoba. It affects the relationship in tax collection between the provinces and the federal government. It has been disproportionately difficult and hard on people who are most vulnerable in our economy. It has resulted in a prolonged recession, the original GST, and it has been particularly tough on northern Manitobans.

My question to the Minister of Finance: Will the new GST, as proposed by the parliamentary committee, include harmonization with the provinces, and will it include expanding the base to include food and prescription drugs in Canada?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): I thank the Leader of the Opposition for that question because I believe, as we speak‑‑the information I received this morning was that the report is being released at 2 p.m. this afternoon. We are expecting copies probably in my office right now in terms of what the specific recommendations are. The rumours have been along the lines that the Leader of the Opposition has suggested, about base broadening, harmonization and so on.

I want to remind members of this House that the position of our government when the GST was introduced, we rejected harmonization, and we continue to reject harmonization unless we can seek some convincing reasons as to why that should be changed. To date, that has not been provided. We have been provided with no information or data that should suggest supporting harmonization today, but we are awaiting that report. As I have indicated before, this agenda, this item is on the agenda of Finance ministers when we meet at the end of this month, June 28 and 29.

It is a very important issue for not only Manitobans but all Canadians in terms of the impact on individual consumption, individual spending. The short‑term impact on our economy, when the studies were done earlier about the impact on the GST and any expansion, there was concern about in the short term, there can be job losses, although in the long term, there is potential for job enhancement. So it is a very important issue, Mr. Speaker.

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Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, our calculation dealing with food and prescription drugs, specifically with food, is that it would cost the Manitoba economy $170 million, and it would be approximately $680 per family, even at the lower rate that has been discussed in terms of the lower rate of 5.3 percent.

We believe this would produce a very, very disproportionate impact on lower‑ and middle‑income Canadians and Manitobans in terms of their ability to have disposable income and their necessity to have to purchase the basis foodstuff and basic prescription drugs in their family.

Has the government‑‑[interjection] Mr. Speaker, I know the Liberals are opposed to this. At least they were when the federal Conservatives proposed the GST on food. Has the government produced‑‑[interjection] The Liberal Leader is welcome to put his position on the record. We are opposed to the GST applying to food and prescription drugs.

I would like to know whether the government has any impact study on the effect on food and prescription drugs, and is it similar to our study of $680 per average Manitoba family?

Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, we share the concern about the extension of the GST into food and prescription drugs, and we have some preliminary analysis done of the impact on any changes to the GST in various ways. We are awaiting this report coming from the federal government in terms of seeing what data they provide in terms of whatever recommendations do, in fact, come forward from the report.

I do want to remind members of this House that the red book did say that a Liberal government will replace the GST. I think today many people are questioning whether or not an extension into food and prescription drugs really is a replacement of the GST.

Public Hearings

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): We disregarded their red book after they proclaimed NAFTA, so if the members opposite are still reading it‑‑Mr. Speaker, the Ministers of Finance will be meeting in June this year, as the minister has indicated. The GST is a very important issue for all Manitobans and all Canadians.

Will the Minister of Finance provide all the impacts of the proposed new GST by the new federal government? Will the Minister of Finance allow for a public debate of all the impact of this proposed new tax so Manitobans can be involved in the decisions the Finance ministers will make and so the people of Manitoba can express their concern and their, I would hope, opposition to extending this tax to food and prescription drugs?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I certainly will undertake to provide as much information as possible on this issue, because it is a very important taxation issue for all Manitobans. Again, we are looking at various ways to hear from Manitobans, because, again, it is an issue that is important to each and every Manitoban and I am sure they will have a view on this very sensitive issue.

I do want to remind the House, as we discussed before, we are going to the Finance ministers' meetings wanting to discuss many taxation issues. The federal government has said this is their priority. They made an election commitment on it, and they have all of a sudden vaulted it to the top of the list. There are many taxation issues that are important to Manitobans. Western provinces, on a unanimous basis, agree that there are many issues that should be on the table beyond just the GST, and we will make sure that happens.

Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

Iceland‑‑50th Anniversary of Independence

Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable Minister of Finance have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, on Friday, Iceland celebrated the 50th anniversary of its independence from Denmark. Yesterday, Manitobans of Icelandic descent and a great many others joined in commemorating this important event in the history of a nation which has close ties to our province.

As we know, close to half of all North Americans who trace their ancestry to Iceland live in Manitoba. Those of us who are part of that group like to think that this is one reason why our province has developed such a strong reputation for commitment and perseverance and hard work.

Mr. Speaker, I know all members of the House will want to join in saluting Iceland on its 50th anniversary and congratulating the Icelandic community in our province on an occasion of great importance and pride. Thank you.

Aboriginal Solidarity Day

Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for Rupertsland have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to mark the occasion of Aboriginal Solidarity Day which takes place tomorrow, the 21st of June.

In the spring of 1982, the forerunner to the Assembly of First Nations, the National Indian Brotherhood, passed a resolution declaring June 21 as a national day of solidarity for all aboriginal people. On this day all aboriginal people, Metis, Inuit and First Nations citizens alike, celebrate our shared heritage. We celebrate our connection to the land which we have occupied since time immemorial. We remember our common history of resistance to dislocation from this land and our traditional ways. We especially celebrate our strength together as aboriginal people in our ongoing struggle for equality and justice.

Mr. Speaker, it is thus very appropriate that June 21 has been chosen to mark Aboriginal Solidarity Day. June 21 is of course the longest day of the year and our struggle as aboriginal peoples and the path before us can sometimes seem very long indeed. The continuing situation of poverty and oppression faced by many of our people serves as a key marker of the distance Canada and Manitoba have to go to achieve equality and justice for its aboriginal people. On a symbolic level, the lack of recognition given to the Year of Indigenous People, especially as compared to the resources being devoted to the current Year of the Family highlight, is still insufficient official commitment to this goal.

Mr. Speaker, June 21 is also the day that marks the changing of the seasons from spring, the time of sowing, to summer, the season of growth and the coming of fruitation. National Aboriginal Solidarity Day is very much a day of hope as well, of hope that such initiatives as the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry and the dismantling process in the Department of Indian Affairs will bring to aboriginal people real self‑government and justice and equality they have so long been seeking.

Mr. Speaker, events celebrating Aboriginal Solidarity Day will be starting across the province and the country tomorrow as early as sunrise for the original inhabitants of this land and the many injustices they have suffered. I would thus like to take this opportunity, and I hope all members of this House will join with me in this to salute all aboriginal people for their perseverance and wish them a most memorable Aboriginal Solidarity Day. As an old Cree saying puts it, it is by remembering our past that we celebrate our future. Thank you.

Committee Changes

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): I move, seconded by the member for Osborne (Ms. McCormick), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: St. James (Mr. Edwards) for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski).

Motion agreed to.

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes) for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) for Tuesday, June 21, 1994, for 10 a.m.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): I move, seconded by the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: the member for Pembina (Mr. Orchard) for the member for Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer), the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render) for the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) and the member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer) for the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson).

Motion agreed to.

Iceland‑‑50th Anniversary of Independence

Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for the Interlake have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, I would just like to join the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) in his comments of the 50 years of freedom of the Icelandic people from Norway.

It is truly a pleasure for me to be able to make some comments as in my communities up as far as Hecla Island and communities in and around Riverton, the Icelanders are a base of our community and a stronghold for the Interlake and surrounding communities. I wish each and every one well and also congratulate Iceland on their 50th anniversary.

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Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for Flin Flon have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, on behalf of, I guess, a number of other people in this caucus who have ties to Icelandic communities, I would like to say a few things on behalf of the Icelandic community in Baldur, Manitoba.

Baldur is an Icelandic god for those in the Chamber who do not know it. I grew up with people by the name of Thor Thorleifsson and Sigvaldsson and all of the other fine names that are now a part of the Manitoba mosaic and people do not think anything of it.

As the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) has suggested, the Icelandic community has played an important role in the development of our province, and certainly members on this side, as my colleague from the Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans) suggested, want to pay tribute to their heritage and to the 50 years of independence that Iceland has enjoyed. To all of those with Icelandic heritage in the province, this is an important day and one which should be noted in the Chamber, Mr. Speaker.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

House Business

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs will meet on Thursday, June 23, at 10 a.m. to consider the Annual Report of the North Portage Development Corporation. The committee was called in Room 255. It will now meet in Room 254.

Mr. Speaker, would you call condolence motions, please.

Motions of Condolence

Edward Dow

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I move, seconded by the member for River Heights (Mrs. Carstairs), that this House convey to the family of the late Edward Dow, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Motion presented.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, Edward Dow was born on September 13, 1904, in Pilot Mound, Manitoba. After spending part of his childhood in Victoria, he received his public education in Boissevain. His university education was cut short when his father became ill and he returned home to operate the family mill.

On July 14, 1927, he married Dorothy Taylor of Boissevain, his partner in life for the last 65 years. Mr. Dow operated a cockshut implement business and a coal business in Boissevain for many years. After closing these businesses, he was employed with Toman Engineering and Reid Crowther and Partners.

He served on the Boissevain Town Council from 1934 until 1946 and was mayor of Boissevain from 1946 until 1968. During his tenure, he helped to oversee the development of adequate street, sewer and water systems for the town.

Mr. Dow and the council worked on many joint projects with the R.M. of Morton, including the Boissevain and Morton Library, the Memorial Hospital and other community projects.

In addition, he served as president and executive member of the Manitoba Urban Association, a member of the International Peace Garden board of directors, a member of the Sanitarium Board of Manitoba and a member of the Westman Centennial Auditorium board.

Mr. Dow was first elected to the Manitoba Legislature in a by‑election held on November 26, 1959, as a Liberal Progressive for the electoral division of Turtle Mountain. Although defeated in the general election of 1962, he was re‑elected in the general election of 1966, but resigned his seat on January 30, 1968. He was re‑elected to this Assembly in the by‑election held on March 4, 1968.

Mr. Speaker, although I did not know Mr. Dow personally, I knew of him from his public service, from his operations as a businessman in Boissevain and from his service with an engineering firm which was a rival engineering firm to the one that I was employed by in the late 1960s.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my colleagues and indeed all members of the Legislature, I wish to extend our heartfelt condolences to Mr. Dow's wife, Dorothy, to his son, George, his grandchildren and great‑grandchild and our thanks for a life of commitment and dedication to public service.

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Liberal Party in Manitoba, I am joined by other members of this caucus and other caucuses. I know that we all want to pay tribute to the life of Edward Ingo Dow who, like the Premier, I did not know. He was 80 years old by the time I had become the Leader of the party and was no longer active in political life.

However, there is a party which is held each summer at Senator Gildas Molgat's home in which the caucus of D.L. Campbell is always called to order. Edward Dow, of course, was one of those members, and we exchanged thoughts and reminiscences and other knowledge of activities of individuals, many of whom gathered there.

As I indicated, as always in the celebration of D.L. Campbell's birthday, and this year it was his 99th birthday, we again noted at that point, of course, that Edward Dow was not in the group so assembled. Mr. Dow, as the Premier has pointed out, had an active life, not only within the political realm but within his community and within his profession.

In addition, he was an active sportsman and he was a contributor to his society at every level that society exists. Whether it be curling, or whether it was golf, or whether it was hockey or track and field in his younger days, Edward Dow made a contribution to living, and it is that contribution that we pay special tribute to today in this Legislature.

Therefore, along with all members of this Assembly, I want this condolence message to go to the family of the late Edward Dow with our condolences but also our hope that the memories within the family unit of Edward Dow help to ease the grief that they are suffering in his loss and will enable them to know that they lived with someone who made a contribution to the world in which he lived. Thank you.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, I simply want to associate myself with the comments made by the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) and the member for River Heights (Mrs. Carstairs).

I did have the pleasure of serving in this Chamber with Mr. Dow. I remember him very well. He was an energetic and competent representative for that area. I simply want to take this occasion as one who served with him to be associated with the resolution that is being forwarded from this Chamber to his family. Thank you.

Mr. Bob Rose (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, it is most appropriate for members of the House to pause in the current business of our province to pay tribute and respect to those who have gone before us. I think too often we take for granted those things that we daily enjoy, and we forget that our current standard of living is largely due to the selfless efforts of people who quietly built their communities and our province.

Such a person was Edward I. Dow. He was not a flamboyant person or one who stood out in a crowd. Ed, as he was known to all, preferred to work quietly and steadily. Ed served on the Boissevain town council for 34 years, 22 of those years as mayor. Boissevain is presently one of the most progressive towns in Manitoba and recently received the provincial Good Roads Association award for town beautification. Certainly, the current residents deserve the credit for this award, but all would agree that they are building on the legacy of Ed Dow.

During his term as councillor and mayor, Boissevain installed sewer and water, built a new skating rink, a swimming pool, a seniors lodge, a museum, a library and a hospital, things as I said that we take for granted. In 1959, he chose to serve a broader community‑‑our province‑‑and was elected MLA for Turtle Mountain, a position he held for 10 years. He was a member of the Liberal Party, but not a particularly partisan politician. In fact, his model is one we might all emulate: service to the people.

Ed also served the larger community as president to the Manitoba Urban Association and member of the International Peace Garden board, Westman Centennial Auditorium board and the Sanatorium Board of Manitoba. He received the Good Citizenship award from the tourism association of Manitoba in 1981. His interest in sports included curling where he was both a competitor and a builder, and he was also a lifetime member of the Manitoba Curling Association.

Mr. Speaker, better wordsmiths than I have paid tribute to Ed Dow, and I would like to quote from the Boissevain Recorder: Over the years Boissevain has been lucky to have had citizens who have left their mark not only on this community but on the province as well. Ed Dow was one of those people. It is a tribute to the esteem in which he was held by local citizens to note that in 24 years as mayor he was never once challenged in an election.

He saw Boissevain develop from a town with wooden sidewalks, outhouses and dirt streets into the progressive community it is today. Not only did Ed work for Boissevain, but he also spent a lot of time travelling across southern Manitoba to neighbouring communities to extol the benefits of having water and sewer systems in their communities.

At the provincial level he represented the Turtle Mountain constituency in the Legislature with ability that earned him the respect of members of all political parties. His devotion and dedication to rural Manitoba was unquestionable. Ed Dow was indeed true to his Scottish background. He showed a God‑given responsibility to give leadership, initiative, thrift and the benevolent use of his time and talents. Well done, thou good and faithful servant.

Mr. Speaker, let me simply say, on behalf of the citizens of Turtle Mountain and indeed the citizens of all Manitoba, our very sincere condolences to the family of Edward I. Dow, and very simply again, thank you, Edward I. Dow.

Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): I would like to say a few words in memory of Ed Dow. I am presently from Winnipeg but I have rural roots. I was born and raised on a family farm just north of Boissevain, so I know the Boissevain and surrounding area quite well. As I heard that the Legislature was having condolences for Ed Dow, the former mayor of Boissevain and MLA for the region, it brought back fond memories of my youth.

I do remember Ed Dow as a leading citizen of Boissevain. My parents spoke very highly of the Dow family. Although my parents retired and left Boissevain region in 1966, and I had left to become a teacher in 1959, I have some personal memories that I would like to share with you.

As a teenager I can recall going with my brothers to a hockey game on Saturday nights with horses and a sleigh, and it might be 25 below, that made no difference. At these hockey games we would, of course, see Ed Dow and other leading citizens of the area. Ed Dow was very much part of the community.

I can also remember going to Boissevain on Saturday nights during the summer months where you would meet the whole surrounding community. Of course, people like Ed Dow were very visible. Saturday night was a special night for rural communities where local leaders such as Ed Dow and businessmen could be seen talking to people on the streets. There was a real sense of belonging to the small town of Boissevain, and Ed Dow was a person who added to this sense of belonging.

My parents were farmers and they were people‑‑especially my dad was a person who would approach anyone and strike up a conversation with them no matter what their position was in the community. My dad would often speak to Ed Dow, and he had many spontaneous conversations with the mayor or the local MLA or M.P. Ed Dow was one of those people who related well to the community and especially to my family.

I can also remember Ed Dow as a businessman. Our family would buy coal from Ed Dow, just as anyone else in the town would. We would go with two horses and a sleigh to get our coal. In those days, we did not use other sources of fuel for heating. We would always buy coal from Ed Dow because he had Souris coal or other good‑quality coal which would be a good source of heat. He was very much respected as a businessman in Boissevain.

I must say something about Ed Dow's son. His son became a doctor in Killarney, which is a nearby town. His son has carried on his tradition of being a great servant to the community. His son has won the same respect of the local people as his father, Ed Dow.

In conclusion, I want to say Ed Dow is remembered as a mayor, MLA, businessman and as a very respected citizen of Boissevain. Ed Dow was part of Boissevain and the total community.

I would like to express condolences to the Dow family. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members please rise and remain standing for a moment to indicate their support for the motion.

A moment of silence was observed.

Stephen Juba

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Ernst), that this House convey to the family of the late Stephen Juba, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty and a useful life of active community and public service and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Motion presented.

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Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, whether they knew him or not, almost no one in this Chamber would not be aware of Stephen Juba and his public service. Stephen Juba, I think, still ranks to this day as probably Winnipeg's most well‑known politician of this century.

He was born in Winnipeg on July 1, 1914. He lived his entire life in Winnipeg until retiring to Petersfield in 1976.

He was first elected to this Assembly in the general election of June 8, 1953, as an independent member for the electoral division of Winnipeg Centre. He was re‑elected in the general election of 1958 and did not contest his seat in the 1959 general election, having been by that time elected as mayor of the City of Winnipeg and serving in that capacity, the capacity for which he ultimately gained fame or notoriety across Canada and beyond its borders.

In 1956 he was elected for the first time as mayor of the City of Winnipeg, and for the next 21 years he placed his inimitable stamp and image on the city. During his tenure in office, he brought, among other things, the Pan‑American Games to Winnipeg in 1967, served over the construction of a modern city hall as well as a freeway over the Red River and downtown rail yards.

Probably one of his best known battles publicly was with the provincial government in 1973, when he protested the construction of public washrooms on Broadway Avenue near the city cenotaph. The "Battle of the Biffy," as this became known, saw Mr. Juba, along with other protesters, planting a portable toilet here at the Legislature which bore the sign, Deserving Office of Honourable Russ Doern, a former Minister of Public Works.

Steve Juba certainly loved Winnipeg, and for more than two decades, Winnipeg loved Steve Juba. Upon retiring from office in 1977, his term as mayor of a major Canadian city was exceeded only by that of Mr. Jean Drapeau, who at the time had been mayor of Montreal for some 23 years.

I had the great pleasure of serving on City Council with Steve Juba in the last two years of his tenure, 1975‑1977. My colleague the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Ernst) sat for a slightly longer time with Mr. Juba.

No one who sat with Mr. Juba could not be affected by his personal charm and his ability to persuade people to support his point of view. Many have argued and even criticized him for the manner in which he built consensus. He often was known to pull in one or two or three at a time, and in little groups build a consensus about a particular issue that favoured him.

There was no question that despite a deliberate lack of power being given to the mayor in The City of Winnipeg Act, as it was passed in 1971 by this Legislature, he did not lack for power to get things done when he had a mission and a desire to see things happen. It was always remarkable to me that he could find a way to persuade people to support his point of view, even though the act gave him nothing more than one vote on council, and that vote only in the case of a tie.

Mr. Speaker, he was a fascinating individual, an individual who I certainly enjoyed being with for many reasons. He referred back to the fact that he knew my father from days of fishing on the Winnipeg River system. He was very attentive to people who had a connection with the north end, in particular. He was certainly a man of the people. He was champion of the little guy. He was an individual who had respect and support from all corners of society, all areas of Winnipeg and certainly beyond.

I stayed in touch with Steve through a variety of different mechanisms over the years after he left council and until he passed away. In fact, when we were in Florida for a vacation, I believe it was somewhere in the mid‑'80s, we called ahead and made arrangements to visit Steve and Elva at their place in Deerfield and had a wonderfully warm time having lunch together with another couple, mutual friends, and talked about Winnipeg, which he always wanted to be up to date on, and all the things that were going on in public life.

He always had a tremendous appetite for an interest in politics and public life, even after he left his own service in public life in 1977. I got calls periodically from him about issues, advice that he freely gave about how to handle particularly sticky matters, always a great interest in what was going on.

He also, of course, took an interest in local issues in and around the Petersfield, Winnipeg Beach area. I, in fact, rode with him in a parade at Winnipeg Beach long after he had retired from his service as mayor of the City of Winnipeg, talked with him about issues to do with a Ukrainian museum that he was developing at Winnipeg Beach, talked with him about issues to do with Ukrainian heritage and culture, because he and Elva used to go to Folklorama, to the Kiev Pavilion, year upon year and sell artifacts and goods that they had either made or represented people who made these matters. He would have a booth at the Kiev Pavilion.

He was a fascinating person, certainly one of life's characters and somebody who will go down in the annals of Winnipeg's history for a long, long time as an individual who served honourably, who served with tremendous dedication and commitment, who had very, very strong convictions about certain issues and who certainly will always, I think, retain the admiration of those who knew him in his many, many different methods of serving the public, one of which was here in this Legislature.

So my colleagues join with me, Mr. Speaker, in extending our heartfelt condolences to Steve's widow, Elva, on the passing of this outstanding citizen of our community.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to put a few words on the record about Stephen Juba. I, of course, did not know Stephen Juba as it related to this House, but rather latterly in his long tenure as mayor of the city of Winnipeg.

Stephen Juba likely was the most consummate public politician that I have ever met, and I have been around or in elected office nigh on 21 years now. But the fact of the matter is Stephen Juba was the public politician. I will not say, Mr. Speaker, that he was the best mayor Winnipeg ever had or that he was the most proficient in that regard, although he did well, but he had the ability, the knack, who knows what it is, but I think he lived by the motto‑‑I heard him elicit this one time‑‑become embroiled in issues only where you have no control, so therefore you will not have to accept any responsibility, and you can make all‑‑you know, very much like the opposition in the House here today‑‑you can make all kinds of statements, all kinds of promises, and never have to live with the results.

I do not know if he lived that 100 percent, because very often he did get involved in issues over which he did have some control and over which ultimately he did take the responsibility, but he was certainly one to be able to garner his share of the limelight during his terms of office. He did this not recklessly or not constantly, but rather picked and chose his opportunities where he could max out his benefit, I suppose, to some degree, but also in the latter years of his terms of office when he did not have to, I suppose, seek out quite as often the opportunities for appearing in the news media and so on.

But he would make certain statements or raise certain issues, like putting a roof over the Winnipeg Stadium. Now, putting a roof over the Winnipeg Stadium in those days, back in the late '60s, early '70s, was no mean feat because the technology was not available such as we have today with the inflatable roofs and things of that nature, but rather it would have been a hard structure built over top.

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He neglected to determine, of course, that it would have required closing off St. James Street, Mr. Speaker, in order to accommodate the structure and would have required the rerouting of Omands Creek on the other side. Nonetheless, Mr. Speaker, he had grandiose ideas, even if the technology was not there. He was perhaps ahead of the technology in terms of the kinds of ideas that sprung from his very fertile mind.

Now, Mr. Speaker, he was a man of limited education. He did not have the advantage of a lot of university degrees and so on after his name. I am not even sure he finished high school particularly, although I could be mistaken, but he was a man who knew how to glean from the people ideas and put them into some form that made some sense and so on.

I can remember also the monorail‑‑he was very famous for the Steve Juba monorail‑‑to go down Portage Avenue. I think he saw it in a Walt Disney movie somewhere and determined that was how Winnipeg mass transit should be run, and while I think the nearest thing to a monorail in a modern Canadian city is the sky train in Vancouver, the fact of the matter is, many rapid transit systems have evolved over time, even though it has not been specifically the monorail that former Mayor Juba envisioned particularly for Portage Avenue. But, nonetheless, he had many of these visionary ideas.

I have to tell you one story about Steve Juba and how he could gain publicity. I do not think this is any great secret, Mr. Speaker, but 1974 was Winnipeg's Centennial. I was a rookie city councillor at the time having just been elected in November of 1973. I was caught up in all the things that were going on with Centennial, a very heady experience for anyone who enters any political office for the first time. I think all members here will agree that those early days of your tenure in office can be quite mind boggling in terms of what goes on and who is doing what and so on.

In this case, in the Centennial of 1974, Pearl McGonigal, the former Lieutenant‑Governor, the former Deputy Mayor of Winnipeg, was the chair of the Centennial committee. She went to see Steve in the office and said, Mr. Mayor, we are having the sod turning of a new arena in St. James, our community. We want you to come because it is Centennial. We want you to come and turn the sod, and we will garner some interest in the community and some recognition for this activity. Also, I might point out, Mr. Speaker, 1974 was an election year for municipal government.

Mayor Juba said to her, well, Pearl, the only way I am going to come is if you can get me on the CBC National News. She said, Mayor Juba, I am the chairman of the Centennial committee. I do not control the news media. He said, you guarantee that you get me on the CBC National News tonight, and I will be there. So, gosh, Pearl wracked her brain what to do. She figured it out finally that because it was Centennial and because we were celebrating 100 years as a city, how did they turn sod 100 years ago?

She got a team of horses and a scoop that they used to use, a hand scoop that was towed by the horse's behind to scoop out the mud. She called his office and said, well, this is the best I can do. He said, well, okay, we will take a chance.

Now, two days before that, we had an opening of some kind at the Grace General Hospital. The mayor had come in his Cadillac, robes of office, chain of office around his neck, very professional looking as the mayor of the City of Winnipeg, to participate in that particular event.

However, this day, to turn the sod with the horses, he showed up in a pickup truck. He had bib overalls on and a straw hat and a straw hanging out of the side of his mouth.

The news media were so captivated, by golly, he did get on the national news that night as celebrating 100 years, and this is how they did it 100 years ago. So he had an uncanny knack of being able to do that.

One other story I would like to relate is one of his constant friction with the former Minister of‑‑I guess it was Mines and Natural Resources that had responsibility for the environment and those kinds of things in those days‑‑Sid Green. The fact that that particular minister‑‑I am not sure exactly of his title‑‑but it was definitely Sid Green who was having this friction with the mayor, and they would not let the City of Winnipeg fog for mosquitoes.

Steve Juba was having hordes of small children being brought down to City Hall with bites all over them and mothers saying, Mr. Juba, please do something about this. Of course, the provincial government of the day said, no, we are not going to allow any chemicals to be sprayed; we are not going to allow them to fog for mosquitoes in the city of Winnipeg. This was not going to happen.

Finally, the mayor went to the board of commissioners in the morning, and he said, how many pieces of equipment, Mr. Chief Commissioner, do you have for the fogging of mosquitoes? I think the answer was 28. He said, all right, I want all 28 vehicles parked in front of the Manitoba Legislature at ten o'clock in the road in front here. So 28 vehicles were brought down to the Legislature and parked in front.

At that time the mayor said to the board of commissioners: All right, come with me. We are going down to see‑‑this was a Wednesday morning, as well, because there was a cabinet meeting. Mayor Juba, with the board of commissioners and half a dozen television cameras in tow, came down to the Legislature, scooped all the keys from all of the vehicles that were parked out in front of the Legislature, put them into a box, I guess, or a bag of some kind, and went to the cabinet room door and knocked. Someone came to the door to answer, and he barged right in, walked right in, board of commissioners in tow, cameras grinding in tow behind him.

He walked up in front of the Premier, and he said, Mr. Schreyer, you may not know who I am, but my name is Stephen Juba, and I am the mayor of the city of Winnipeg. We have thousands upon thousands of citizens in this city who are being chewed alive by mosquitoes, and your minister will not let us fog. So he said, Mr. Premier, if you look out the window, you will see all the equipment that the City of Winnipeg would use for this kind of activity. Here, sir, are the keys, and dumped them in the middle of the table with a great clatter and clang and so on, turned around and walked out.

Mr. Speaker, that was the kind of consummate politician, if you will‑‑I mean, he garnered the absolute maximum.

An Honourable Member: Did they spray?

Mr. Ernst: Quite frankly, I do not know the rest of the story as to whether or not there was‑‑I believe, in fact, it did cause sufficient recalcitrance to get it sprayed.

While Steve Juba could play with the big guys on a regular basis, he was an interesting man as well because he had many things that no one knew about.

Few, I guess, knew‑‑those who were beneficiary‑‑but he was in the smallwares business, and he always had trinkets. He forever had key chains and he had lighters and he had nail files and he had all kinds‑‑in fact, coming out of City Hall one day, he had a box of panty hose, and on the carton was this picture of Stephen Juba, mayor, and he would hand out this stuff to everyone.

His favourite activity, I am told‑‑I never actually witnessed this myself, but I am told by his staff‑‑he used to go on what he called industrial visits Friday mornings. He would walk into the Transcona shops, as an example, on a Friday morning, unannounced, not tell anybody, and with his little crew of people who went with them, he went right out on the shop floor, caused everything to come to a halt and, of course, safety was thrown to the winds, precautions and all those kinds of things. He would go around and shake everybody's hand and pass out a little key chain or a little souvenir of his visit. Then the next week he would go to Great‑West Life and walk through the desks of all the staff in there and do the same thing. He was a man of the people.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, one time I was at Sandy Hook, I believe it was. There is a small restaurant there, and we were going in there for breakfast, and who were serving breakfast‑‑Steve and Elva Juba. The people who owned the place had an extra load of business that particular day and they had called them; they needed some help. So they came down and they were serving breakfast to people at Sandy Hook, waiting on tables.

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An Honourable Member: It was his former driver who owned it.

Mr. Ernst: That is right. He was a man for all the people and a very unique individual, one who‑‑I am not so sure he could get away with some of the stuff today that he got away with during his tenure of office.

It was the uniqueness of the individual, I think, that allowed him to do that and the fact that he did‑‑the Premier said he had a very great ability to bring people together to reach consensus, and the only issue in the four years that I served with him at City Hall that he could not get consensus‑‑and it bothered him no end‑‑was the fact that during the transit strike of 1976 he could not get consensus. We met day after day for hour after hour, and he was really bothered by the fact that this was the first strike in the city of Winnipeg since 1919. He was the mayor, and he did not want that on his record. Of course, the wage and price controls were in effect in Ottawa, so it did not matter what the City Council approved. It was going to get rolled back by Ottawa anyway.

For once in the time that I served at City Hall, council was pretty much together on this issue, and the fact of the matter was‑‑[interjection] Unlike today. The fact of the matter was that we did, collectively‑‑and, again, I was pretty new at the job and the Premier was new on the job there as well at the time. It was a very, very trying experience. A strike of major proportion, it went on for six or eight weeks, I believe, in the middle of winter. It was a very, very trying experience. That was the one kind of issue where I do not think he really achieved that consensus. The Premier is correct. I mean, he achieved consensus on all kinds of things by a little prodding and an approach to a person here and a person there.

It was an interesting time, a very interesting individual, and he probably will go down as one of the premier politicians of this century. He certainly was a fantastic promoter of the city of Winnipeg. Thank you.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I want to rise and pay tribute to the life and contributions of Stephen Juba and put a few remarks on the record on behalf of our caucus.

I did not know Stephen Juba as well as members opposite, and I certainly would expect that they could go on probably all night long with stories that have never been told about Stephen Juba. Certainly the stories that have been told can keep us going for hours on end.

I want to reminisce in my comments about the last time I spoke with Stephen Juba. You did not speak to Stephen Juba; you listened to Stephen Juba, particularly when you were a rookie in politics because here was truly a seasoned and inspiring veteran of politics and populism.

Mr. Speaker, I remember that he continued to have a tremendous political edge well after his retirement date from active politics. I believe it was the cultural festival, the festival of pavilions, Folklorama, that is held every year. We were discussing the whole issue of Folklorama. He was so proud of Folklorama. Of course, he was involved, I believe, along with the Schreyer government‑‑it may have been before then‑‑but I recall the Schreyer government and Mayor Juba were involved in this.

He was feeling such great pride as the parade went by, and the different pavilions were presented, and the different groups were there, such tremendous pride at the fact that this event had been recognized worldwide and had been named one of the top tourism attractions all over North America for bus tours. This was bringing such joy and pride to him, and he was relaying this to me.

(Mrs. Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)

He could not help but mention‑‑it is always something important for all of us‑‑that the Free Press editorial of the day was opposed to Folklorama, thought it was a silly idea, according to Steve Juba. I have never read this editorial, but it thought it was a silly idea and it would not work. It was kind of a hokey suggestion, and nobody would go to these things. [interjection] Yes, culturally, et cetera.

He took great joy in going through every sentence that he recalled in the Free Press editorial and, of course, pointing out how much in error the editorial was at the time and how it was Steve Juba and Ed Schreyer who had the vision to establish Folklorama, not people who sit in editorial rooms picking away at these ideas, and it is people who make ideas work, people who have the vision to get things going, people who have the enthusiasm and populism to believe in people who make a difference, as opposed to people who, as we call them‑‑I guess the old saying about editorial writers. They stand at the top of the hill, and after the battle they go pick away at the pieces in a battle. [interjection] Yes, I was not going to use that term. Sometimes I do not think they pick away at survivors. They pick away at others.

Madam Deputy Speaker, this was Steve Juba's political message to me. Be positive, have a vision, believe in people, believe in Winnipeg, believe in Manitoba, and do not listen to editorials, because you will never get anything done. You have to have your faith in people. [interjection] This was long before the term was coined by the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

Steve Juba, of course, has had a tremendous political career. He was elected as an Independent to this Legislature, and, of course, he served many, many years as the mayor of the City of Winnipeg. He has left a tremendous contribution to our community of Winnipeg and to the debate on various issues in the province of Manitoba.

He was a populist. Steve Juba knew which way the public was thinking, but he also was more than that. He did not just watch and see which way the parade was going to go and then run to catch up to the parade. I believe when you review the career and the contributions of Steve Juba, you will see a person who was also willing to lead a parade for the causes that he believed so much in, in our province and in the city of Winnipeg.

He had that proper balance, too, Madam Deputy Speaker, being able to negotiate hard with other governments, negotiate hard with other business entities which were looking at locating in the city of Winnipeg, looking hard at attracting things like the Pan‑Am Games, which, I believe, he was also involved in, and at the same time keeping a populous touch and a feeling that the people had in him that he was truly representing their best interests when he was mayor.

There was not the kind of cynicism that you sometimes hear with public figures when Steve Juba was mayor. People believed that he was in it for them, that he was in it for the people of Winnipeg, that he cared deeply about the city of Winnipeg and its residents. I believe Steve Juba was an exemplary person for all of us in this Legislature to copy in terms of what he believed elected representation would mean and how he conducted his view of how you would implement your responsibilities as an elected official or an elected leader in the Province of Manitoba and in the City of Winnipeg.

As a person growing up in the city of Winnipeg, I always admired Steve Juba. I always had tremendous respect for his talents and abilities and his populism and for his sense of drama, Madam Deputy Speaker, because there is a certain necessity of drama to demonstrate to the public certain options that are available to the decision makers. There is a certain amount of theatrics, I suppose, to bring attention to matters that may not be getting much attention.

I want to say to Mr. Juba's family and to the record here in the House that I respected the career of Mr. Juba, the contributions of Mr. Juba. I certainly cherished the couple of hours I had to listen to him in our last time together. I certainly paid heed to the words that he gave me and the great positive feeling he left everyone in terms of how he felt about you but how he felt more about his city and his province and his communities that he felt so strongly about. Thank you very much.

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Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister of Government Services): Madam Deputy Speaker, first of all, a lot has been added in regard to Stephen Juba.

I first met Mr. Juba in the '50s before he was mayor of the City of Winnipeg. Mr. Juba was a member of the Riverside Lions club along with my father. At that time Steve told my dad: Louis, you are going to have to enter politics in the St. Vital area because I am going to run for mayor. At this time we had a little chuckle, and we thought, oh, sure, Steve, who knows you? However, if anyone saw Stephen when we was working even at those events that he had before he became mayor would realize the type of individual he was.

I kept in touch with Stephen. I did not sit with him at City Hall. However, my brother Al used to talk about the many things that went on with Stephen Juba. He used to tell me, the worst part was running to City Hall to make sure you sat at committee, to make sure you were on one side and not the other. It was not because of political views. It was because he was hard of hearing on one, and he said you had to get there quick or else he did not bother recognizing you for the rest of the meeting.

I kept in touch myself personally. I guess one of the last times I saw Steve was when there was a park dedicated to the family in the St. Vital area, and Steve came out because he remembered my dad and they were close friends to when my dad passed away.

Also, I remember meeting him just before he died. I was called to a senior function that was being held in Brooklands. He had worked with the senior people in Brooklands. He told me about the time that they needed a new road because it was so muddy that nobody could get to bingo. The City of Winnipeg did not have it in their funding to build this particular road, and it did not fall into the local improvements act, so Steve got together and they had a fundraising. They all got together, did fundraising for the road, and went back to the city and said, well, we have got the money, now you build the road.

That was the type of person he was. From the time, I believe, he sold furnaces to the time that he was mayor, he had all the angles, and I do not think he forgot a face anywhere. I think that was the secret. I know when I sat at executive policy committee, along with the mayor, and we would go through budgets, I started to mention one day, well, you must have had a tough time here when Steve Juba was here. They said, Gerry, he did not attend budget meetings. He waited till they got back into the realm of the political side, and then he took part.

I guess not to add and keep adding to what was on, I think he left politics the same way. This will give you an idea of the type of person he was, how he came in and he left under controversial terms. As we all know, when he was first elected, no one had heard of him. There was a status quo in the city of Winnipeg. He was a boy from the north end who was never going to be elected to the City of Winnipeg, to being its mayor.

Well, I have to remember the story when he was deciding not to run again. There were all his people that were around him, the abiding politicians. One was from the Transcona area, and I believe the deputy mayor at the time‑‑all wanted to be the mayor. However, at the time, if you wanted to run for mayor, you had to resign as a councillor. They were all lined up waiting to see what Stephen was going to do.

You know what Steve does? At that time, Steve puts his name in that he is going to run for mayor, puts his papers in. Within the 48 hours he could withdraw his name, he withdrew his name. So all these people decided now they could not run for mayor. Upset a few. However, that is the type of person Steve Juba was.

On behalf of my late father, on behalf of my brother Al, I say to his wife, Elva, who also never forgot a name‑‑Elva was always there with Steve, especially the last few years when Steve was ailing‑‑I send my best wishes.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Madam Deputy Speaker, it is an honour for me to rise on behalf of my caucus colleagues and join and say a few words about Mr. Stephen Juba and extend condolences to his wife Elva and other family members.

It was very interesting for me to know that Mr. Juba was elected to the Legislative Assembly in 1953, which is 41 years ago, and was elected as an independent member and sat in the Chamber here for two terms; but, obviously, and certainly from comments here this afternoon, Mr. Juba's first love was the city of Winnipeg. He took the opportunity to be very much a part of his beloved city of Winnipeg and ran for mayor, and served as mayor from 1956 to 1977.

As an individual from rural Manitoba, Madam Deputy Speaker, certainly when I grew up in southwestern Manitoba, basically there were two radio stations that you listened to: one was CJOB, and the other one was a Regina radio station. So oftentimes in the morning we would be listening to CJOB. I always remember waking up and listening to CJOB in the morning, and even during those days, there were two individuals whose names everyone in rural Manitoba remembered: one was Cactus Jack Wells; the other was Mayor Stephen Juba, because he was a very well‑known individual and a very colourful individual so that even those of us from rural Manitoba‑‑and certainly growing up as I did in rural Manitoba when Mr. Juba was mayor, I do remember his name. That is obvious that he is remembered, as I hear people today speak of Mr. Juba, because of his colourful career in politics and, as was mentioned today, he was considered to be a man of the people.

I have heard comments this afternoon about Mr. Juba's personal charm, his ability to be a consensus builder; certainly he was considered to be very much a team player and was also a very modest individual in that he always gave credit to the people and the team around him.

It was also said this afternoon that he was very persuasive, and I think that was very much the case, given that, in fact, he served the city of Winnipeg well and did serve for some 21 years. He obviously was very devoted to the city of Winnipeg, and I think that during those 21 years one could not mention the city of Winnipeg without synonymously thinking of Mayor Steve Juba, so it is certainly with condolences that my caucus extends to his family, to his wife, Elva. In remembrance, we certainly admire an individual who obviously very much loved the city of Winnipeg, was very well known, respected and admired for all of his work throughout his political life. Thank you.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Labour): Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise today as well to put a few comments on the record with respect to Mr. Stephen Juba. I, like the member for Crescentwood (Ms. Gray), who has just spoken, have many memories of Stephen Juba from CJOB in those days; in my case, in the early '60s when growing up as a child, the name Stephen Juba was probably one of the first politicians that one ever encountered. I was very fortunate in my life to have the opportunity to get to know Steve Juba a little bit.

Mr. and Mrs. Juba, as many know, retired to a cottage in the Petersfield area‑‑well, actually, a home in the Petersfield area, where among a host of hobbies, including Ukrainian pottery, Steve Juba took up vegetable gardening, and my mom and dad, being proprietor of a vegetable stand on Highway 9, got to know the Jubas because they would drop in regularly to sell my mom and dad produce for resale and to buy many of the things that they could not grow. So we got to know the Jubas relatively well as they would drop in regularly with a supply of produce to sell to us.

As a young boy growing up in Manitoba, as the member for Crescentwood has mentioned in her speech as a young child growing up, we all heard, of course, about Steve Juba, and what always impressed me with him as a young person growing up was the fierce dedication that so many people from so many different walks of life had for Steve Juba.

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I can remember my grandparents, who lived just outside of the city of Winnipeg in the rural municipality of West St. Paul, who were retired at that time and avid listeners to CJOB, were fierce supporters of Steve Juba in whatever he was taking on. I can remember as well, after the unification of the city of Winnipeg, relatives in East Kildonan, a community that had been incorporated into the City of Winnipeg, and facing the first election for mayor in which they could vote for the mayor of Winnipeg as opposed to the mayor of East Kildonan, taking great pride in being able to go down to the polling station to vote for Steve Juba.

It was not the mayor of Winnipeg. The issues were not important. They wanted to be able to say that they had voted for Stephen Juba. Perhaps the strength of that support was firmly rooted in Mr. Juba's personality, his ability to make people feel important, his ability to touch those common issues that were important to people in their everyday lives and also to captivate the imagination.

As someone who comes from Ukrainian ancestry‑‑as we say, from north of the north end‑‑it was also very pleasing to see a fellow Ukrainian‑Manitoban rise to such prominence and play such an active role in the politics and the building of our capital city and indeed our province.

I remember the issues, of course, that stick with an individual. I can remember, as a young junior high student, in our junior parliaments, having our practise debates and our teacher‑instructor, Mr. John Perry, introducing a topic for us to debate, and it was the margarine issue. Now this would have been in the early 1970s, and to me, you know, margarine was yellow and there was no issue as to colour. I can remember him raising this issue on which we were supposed to debate and do the research and preparation for that debate on what colour margarine should be, and that led us to researching that whole debate that Steve Juba fought in this Legislature.

It may seem to us now, in the mid part of the 1990s, to have been a debate that might have been somewhat frivolous, but at the particular time it was really a debate over the monopoly of the cream producers to have a virtual monopoly in the sale of butter versus oil‑based equivalent products. So it was really a profound debate.

I remember asking Mayor Juba or Steve Juba many years later about that particular debate, and he said he had so much fun with it because he was able to captivate, as he said, an army of housewives, to use his terminology, his phraseology, who had to spend hours mixing the colouring into this butter. He said, in preparation for his arguments, he and his wife went through the routine and timed it and did the calculation for a family for a year. He said it was so much fun to catch this group of people, capture their interest in this debate that, to many, may not have seemed important, but he made it important. It was truly a profound issue when one looks at it in the context of its time.

I was also very fortunate to get to know Mayor Juba at hosts of teas and celebrations in various parishes throughout northeastern Manitoba and parts of Winnipeg, because years after his departure from City Hall and Winnipeg, he was still one of the most sought‑after guests and speakers at a host of functions, particularly in the Ukrainian community. He was always very enchanting, he always had a story to tell and was just a delight to be with. The love and respect of Manitobans for their Mayor of Winnipeg Steve Juba was there decades after he had left the leadership of our particular capital city.

In closing, there is one little story that Steve Juba told on numerous occasions at these events that I was at, and he would always end with it. He would always say that it was important to speak up to be heard, to stand to be seen and to sit down to be appreciated, so I am going to do just that, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Thank you for the opportunity to put some words on the record.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Deputy Speaker, I too rise and would like to put a few words on the record with respect to Stephen Juba. It is a formidable task to talk about someone whom one growing up in Winnipeg looked upon Mr. Juba as something of an icon, certainly well respected and full of energy, and from the comments of members in this Chamber, it certainly dovetailed with my own personal reflections of my association with Mr. Juba.

He struck me as something of a teacher all of his life. He took people under his wings. He was always teaching. He was always passing on wisdom and advice, and I recall as a young assistant working for the then Premier Ed Schreyer that the then mayor would often take me aside and pass on some political wisdom or some advice to me on a whole series of topics, mostly related to politics. He was always doing that.

He also struck me as something of a dreamer, and not just a dreamer in the sense of an individual who simply dreams, but he is a dreamer who fulfilled many of those dreams. He certainly was in a very exciting category in Canadian history with some of the mayors that the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) mentioned, Mayor Drapeau and Stephen Juba. They were a type of politician or mayor that perhaps we will not see again.

It certainly was an interesting era of dreamers and of builders, and I can recall having a luncheon with Mr. Juba. I was spellbound the entire luncheon as we talked about some of his plans he had for a rapid transit system for Winnipeg. I think even today, that plan would be visionary. I was just struck by it. He had it all worked out and it was fascinating. It is not something we see that often in the process any longer.

I certainly recall many occasions when I had an opportunity to meet with him, and I want to reflect on a couple of other occasions. Folklorama‑‑our Leader made mention of the fact that he was a visionary in the establishment of Folklorama and that is true. It is interesting that after he retired from active public life and took up other careers, as mentioned by the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik), I know that he was doing sculpture and pottery, and there he was when Folklorama appeared again, but this time not as one of the fathers of Folklorama but as one of the participants, and he actively participated at the pavilion in selling his wares and in visiting the pavilions.

I also recall the fact that in our choir, we used to have a little song that we would sing, and we would substitute Stephen Juba's name amongst the Ukrainian lyrics. We had occasion to sing in Gimli, and Steve Juba was in the crowd, and he was so touched by this gesture that he came on stage and joined us.

It was quite a touching moment because I think all of us boys and men in the choir were honoured to be with him and were honoured that he accepted our gesture of good will towards him and the respect that we held for him as young members of the community looking at him as a figure of someone to emulate, because certainly, as the member for Lac du Bonnet has indicated, many of us growing up in the north end and those north of the north end, for us one of the great figures was Steve Juba, and he was someone to emulate and someone we were very proud of.

With those few words, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also extend my condolences to the family.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I just wanted to say a few words. I have never really had the privilege to know Mr. Steve Juba. I have never had the opportunity to sit down and to talk to him. The reason why I wanted to put a few words on the record is because I can recall a number of years ago, when I first thought and entertained the possibility of hopefully someday being an elected official and sitting inside this Chamber, one of the things I did is I researched the area in which I was going to be running. I was very pleased to see that, in fact, there was an individual that had won as an independent, because in Manitoba we have not seen very much of independence winning in provincial elections. I believe, in fact, Stephen Juba is the last one that actually won as an independent. I could stand to be corrected on that, but I believe that that is, in fact, the case.

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I know for myself, as someone that just hit, I believe it was 22 or 23 doing that research, that it gave me a sense of hope because, again, at that time my own political party was not as popular as I would have liked to have seen, but it provided me as an individual the opportunity to say, look, maybe a candidate can make a difference, that depending on how one campaigns and what an individual believes in that you might be able to make the difference and get people to support you.

It was looking at what Mr. Juba was able to accomplish that really allowed me the opportunity to seriously give consideration to running in the first election when I did run.

I just wanted to express those few words on the record.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion.

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Would all honourable members please rise and join in observing one minute silence and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion.

A moment of silence was observed.

Saul Alecs Miller

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition, that this House convey to the family of the late Saul Alecs Miller, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty and a useful live of active community and public service, and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Motion presented.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, Saul Alecs Miller was born in Winnipeg on January 27, 1917. He grew up in Winnipeg's north end and was educated at Peretz School, Aberdeen School, St. John's High School and the University of Manitoba.

Saul Miller was a member and later chairman of the board of Seven Oaks School Division and chairman of the Manitoba Association of School Trustees.

He served as councillor and then as mayor of the City of West Kildonan.

Mr. Miller was first elected to the Manitoba Legislative Assembly in the general election of 1966 as a New Democratic Party member for the electoral division of Seven Oaks. He was re‑elected in the general elections of 1969, 1973 and 1977. He was not a candidate in the 1981 general election.

During his tenure in the Legislature, he served in the cabinet as Minister of Youth and Education from July 1969 through to September 1971; Minister of Colleges and University Affairs from September 1971 through August 1973; Minister of Urban Affairs, December 1974; Minister responsible for the Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation, August 1973 through September 1976. He was Minister of Health and he was Minister of Finance from September 1976 through November 1977. Upon leaving this Legislature, served as chairman of the board of the Manitoba Telephone System.

Madam Deputy Speaker, in an earlier part of this session where we had condolence motions, we talked about the impressions that one has as a new, young member of the Assembly as you watch in action one of the deans of the Legislature, and certainly that characterized my early knowledge of Saul Miller as I joined this Legislature in the fall of 1979.

Saul Miller was someone whom I watched very closely and with great admiration because he had held almost all of the heavy and difficult portfolios during the Schreyer administration, as I said earlier: Minister of Finance, Minister of Health, Minister of Education. These are, indeed, weighty portfolios and, I think, indication of the measure of respect with which he was held by Mr. Schreyer and his colleagues and certainly indication of his tremendous capacity for work and for handling the very heavy loads that any government has in office.

He was a very quiet man and yet a very effective individual, honourable, without a mean bone in his body, I can say, and somebody whom I think everybody treated with admiration and respect. He was gentlemanly in all manner of dealings with you.

He treated me with considerable warmth for probably a couple of reasons. We shared north‑end roots, but his daughter, Myra, had gone to my business college, and he always respected that relationship we had had, which, I think, was a positive one. So I was always happy to see Saul, and I believe that he was always happy to see me at various public events even after he left this Legislature.

I certainly enjoyed the opportunity to serve in this Legislature and to observe in action Saul Miller. I certainly carry with me a tremendous respect for all the contributions he made in public life, as you read through the record of his service, as a member of the school board and chair, president of the Manitoba Association of School Trustees, ultimately a mayor of West Kildonan, and finally, a very, very highly respected member of cabinet of this Legislature.

So I certainly extend on behalf of all of my colleagues, and I am sure all members of this Legislature, our deepest sympathies to his wife, Sylvia, and his son, Michael, his daughters, Myra and Janet, and his grandchildren, our deepest sympathies at this time of sorrow in remembering his passing, and our thanks for a life of dedicated service to his community.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): It is a privilege to rise and second the motion presented by the Premier (Mr. Filmon) today. At the outset, I want to say to the family, Sylvia, Janet, Myra and Michael, how deeply grieved we were when first we heard of the passing of Saul Miller and how much we truly miss his contributions to our active debate today, but how much we value the tremendous contributions that he has made to the province of Manitoba and to his communities in his life and during his career.

Madam Deputy Speaker, if the word "grassroots" is to be used with any politician or elected figure, Saul Miller is the appropriate one to use this term with. He obviously was a man of the people all throughout his career, starting as a school trustee, becoming president of MAST, becoming a councillor, becoming mayor of his community of West Kildonan, being part of other community activities. He was a member of B'nai Brith, and he was a member of the Royal Canadian Legion in his community. He is a person who always was elected to higher and greater responsibility, and yet, as the Premier has indicated, he was a very quiet man, quiet individual, but very, very sure and very, very respected.

As the Premier has indicated, Mr. Miller, Saul Miller, was elected in '66 in opposition, and I understand he was a formidable opposition critic in those days, asking very pointed questions, very factual questions in his low‑key way, but certainly illustrating his points in terms of his belief in social and economic justice and his belief in the party of his choice, the New Democratic Party.

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In 1969, the Schreyer government was elected, and certainly when one hears about the strength of the Schreyer government and the strength of individuals who were in his government, a number of people are mentioned, but how often have we heard the term "the two Sauls" as the pillars of the Schreyer government and the Schreyer cabinet between the years '69 and 1977, and look at the portfolios that Saul Miller was handed by the Premier. Over the years, we understand that hard work and long hours did not deter Saul Miller. He just took on more and greater responsibilities and he did so, again, in his quiet, unassuming way, and would pursue those portfolios with his integrity, with his honesty and with his dedication to the philosophy he believed in and to the communities that he believed he was serving.

The Premier has outlined the many portfolios that Saul Miller had over the years. They are all positions of senior responsibility during periods of time when major changes were needed and major changes were made through the delivery of government programs and the delivery of services to the people of Manitoba.

He was part of a cabinet that brought in a number of changes to Manitoba, whether it was reduction of medicare premiums, whether it was expansion of health care, whether it was introduction of property tax credits, whether it was the introduction of public auto insurance in the province of Manitoba. Saul Miller was part of a team that implemented their promises and kept their commitments to the people. Of course, that is the type of person Saul Miller was as an individual, as a person.

I recall always having a chance to talk to Saul Miller over the years. He was the kind of person, you know, that some people from different political parties when they are thrown‑‑not when they are thrown into cabinet‑‑when they are placed in cabinet‑‑I never want to use that terminology, although sometimes you feel like that in terms of how much preparation you get‑‑when you are placed in cabinet, some people get swollen heads and some people continue to be themselves.

I always felt that Saul Miller was the humblest of the group. He was unassuming; he was quiet; he was curious. If you wanted to make a point with him or you wanted to raise a question or you wanted to disagree with Saul Miller as a citizen, he would argue with you; he would probe your knowledge; he would disagree with you if he did not agree with you; but he was very open. Along with being quiet, he was very open. He was a true democrat in wanting to debate the various options before this Legislature and the various options before government prior to making a decision.

I remember attending a community meeting on the issue of the implementation of the Tulchinsky report. Members opposite, some members may recall that, where there was a proposal to have a single‑unit delivery system in the province of Manitoba.

I thought there was a lot of merit in the proposal. I still think the Winnipeg west region, with all of the services together, made more sense for families than having separate categories over here and over there on the basis of separate disciplines.

I remember going to a community meeting. At that point there was a real dispute between probation services, who wanted to see themselves more consistent with the kind of Attorney General's department and the Corrections department, and the Department of Health, which saw these individuals, these professionals, as part of the single‑unit delivery system.

There was an argument both ways. Should a probation officer be involved more as an extension of the criminal justice system, and the Minister of Justice or the Attorney General, or should they be involved in a single‑unit delivery system?

I remember a great presentation from a person named Aaron Kowalson [phonetic], who was then a probation officer, at this public meeting, talking about the various options the government was looking at in arguing that a probation officer could not pick up a baby in the morning, write a presentence report in the afternoon, and do a follow‑up with supervision in the community in the evening.

Here was a person who disagreed with the government proposal in a public meeting as a public employee, debating with other members of the public with Saul Miller, who was the minister.

You know, today we see government reorganizations that are usually announced with press releases, and it is a fait accompli. A lot of committees, internal bureaucratic committees, work away with the government of the day, and all of a sudden something is announced.

That was not the style of Saul Miller, the grassroots politician, the populist. He was willing to debate his ideas and the government's ideas with anybody, including members of his own department, even those who would be somewhat critical.

I often admired this quiet, unassuming man as the minister of the department engaging in a public debate with his own employees in a vigorous way because that is how he believed that democracy should be conducted, in a democratic way, in an open way. If you have a good idea, you can defend it. You do not have to be worried about it. You do not have to be defensive, about it and you certainly do not have to be secretive about what you believe and why you believe it. I will always be left with that impression.

Later in in the years when I had a chance to talk to Saul Miller after he was involved in politics, he was always up to date with the issues of the day, and he always had great advice. Saul Miller was a person who always had sound advice. He was a man, a person of wisdom, along with his integrity. It was always very, very valuable for all of us to hear his advice and seek his advice because it was always very solid and it was always very trustworthy and it was founded on years and years of listening to people and working with people for his philosophy of social and economic justice.

Madam Deputy Speaker, Saul Miller was a person of the north end, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has indicated. He was educated in the north end. He served the north end of Winnipeg in his various elected jobs, including the serving as an MLA for the years, as the representative of Seven Oaks, and he lived in the north end. I had the opportunity of visiting his family home and visiting with his wife and children at the time of shivah after his passing. His family was still residing in the same home and the same roots as when he was first elected to this Legislature in 1966.

Helen Promislow had some very, very kind words to pay tribute to Saul Miller that was contained in the Winnipeg Sun. Certainly all members of this Legislature had been touched by his warmth, had been moved by his dedication and had been inspired by his accomplishments. We want to say to his family today that we pay tribute to his great, great legacy in public life, and we pass our condolences to the family through this motion in the Legislature today.

Thank you very much.

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Madam Deputy Speaker, I certainly would like to put on the record some comments to the family of Saul Alecs Miller and to his wife, Sylvia, and his children, Janet, Myra and Michael, to basically pay tribute to this individual. Again, as I was growing up and during my university years, certainly the name of Saul Miller was very, very well known. For myself as a university student, and as the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) has said, when one talked about the Schreyer government, often times it was spoken as the two pillars of that particular cabinet, one of those pillars certainly being Saul Miller.

Mr. Miller was elected to the Seven Oaks electoral division in 1966 for the New Democratic Party, and the comments that we have heard this afternoon certainly indicated that, of course, Mr. Miller was definitely an individual who was of the people and who was for the people. I was very intrigued by the comments of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), who spoke of the single unit delivery system concept, affectionately known by some as the SUDS. I was very interested to know that in fact Saul Miller was a part of the concept of that single unit delivery system which, when I was a civil servant in the middle '70s, was certainly a new concept in the Departments of Health and Social Development and Corrections that was being talked about by the government of the day. I can appreciate Saul Miller speaking and feeling very passionate about that particular type of delivery system.

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Years later, when that system was developed, I would say very successfully, the single unit delivery system, we went on to modify it, and it was spoken of as multidisciplinary team concept. In fact, when one looks across North America, we see that health institutions and social services institutions and communities are actually moving towards that type of concept. So I was very interested in those comments today, because I would suggest that in fact that was the type of delivery system that was to be there for the people in the community. Certainly that idea is consistent with the comments I have heard this afternoon in regard to Saul Miller, who very much was of the people and for the people.

It was obvious as well that Saul Miller was very much interested in education since he was elected to the Seven Oaks School Division for a number of years and also served as president of MAST as well as taking on the senior portfolio with the Schreyer government as minister of youth and education. So obviously his interest in the field of education extended very much into his political and public life.

I would like to say on behalf of my colleagues in the Liberal caucus, we certainly extend condolences to Mr. Miller's family, and there is no question that Saul Miller is certainly recognized and will be remembered as a member of the Manitoba Legislature who served with integrity, who served with commitment, who served with dedication.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am humbled to be able to get up and pay tribute to a great Manitoban, someone who has given enormously to the public interest in this province. I pay tribute to him, not only on behalf of myself, but to those who live in the area that knew Saul and worked with him to establish a better province and a better north Winnipeg.

Saul passed away after illness on September 1, during the provincial by‑elections, and I think his passing in the middle of the by‑election, for me, added to the sense of mission that we had in the community, particularly given that Saul had given me tremendous support, bestowed a great honour on me by supporting my bid for the nomination in the area. I can say that I think the strong support that has been given to the New Democratic Party in north Winnipeg is not in any small way due to the calibre of candidates that have historically been elected. Saul Miller was certainly one of those great, great elected members. You do not hear anything bad ever being said about Saul Miller from door to door to door. People recall his contribution in the words of greatest praise.

He was raised in the north end and, of course, I think it was in the Burrows area. His father had a family bookstore, and Saul then briefly spent some time in the United States, I understand, and down east, but returned back to Winnipeg and helped in the bookstore. Then he established a small business, Acme Metal Products, which was very successful. In fact, in the 1960s there were 25 people employed at peak periods. They engaged in the manufacturing of lawn chairs and other metal products.

Of course, in 1953 he began his long distinguished career representing the West Kildonan area, first as a trustee with Seven Oaks School Division and then as a councillor and two years as mayor, and, of course, elected in 1966. He continued here until 1981, serving in some of the most onerous portfolios and those that could make the greatest contribution to the quality of life for Manitobans

I noted Russ Doern, in his book, Wednesdays are Cabinet Days, describing Saul Miller. Russ said that as Minister of Health, the diminutive man could barely be seen behind a massive desk and a mountain of material. I think the imagery is appropriate for many reasons. First of all, Saul Miller was a very, very conscientious member; second of all, he was very, very hard working.

I think that the words of Helen Promislow shortly before her death need to be reiterated here today. Helen said that Saul never put anyone down, no matter how frivolous or foolish the question. He had an infinite store of patience to draw upon and was accessible to a high degree. She went on to say that power did not corrupt him or make him arrogant. He was modest in a very natural way because the prime issue was how to do the job properly, not look how important am I.

She also said, and I will conclude with an anecdote, door to door it was too much for this rather shy and unassuming man, but he did tell Helen once, she said with a quiet chuckle, that he had never lost a poll, but that is as close as he ever got to bragging.

I heard an anecdote that there was one campaign when the campaign workers were getting concerned that Saul was not out door to door, it was really the way things were being done in other constituencies. They had a chat about this and one of the people that was out campaigning said, look, you know, last night I was in a particular poll, and door after door, it was very supportive for Saul. I think it would be a good idea that we put him right there on that street in that poll, and it will boost his confidence. I think then he will continue on and we will get him out there canvassing.

So apparently, they drove Saul and dropped him off, and he went to the first door, the second door, third door, every door, they said, oh, no, Saul, do not worry about our vote, you know, we are with you all the way. So after that, instead of Saul continuing down the street, he went back to the headquarters and said, I do not have to be out knocking door to door, it is a waste of time, they are voting for me anyway.

An award has been established for Saul Miller. It was established some years ago in recognition of his contribution to Manitoba life at West Kildonan Collegiate. It will be an honour for me for the first time to be able to present that award to a student Saturday night.

In conclusion, I want to extend deepest sympathy to Sylvia, whom I have gotten to know better all the time, a wonderful person, and to Janet, Myra and Michael and their families.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Deputy Speaker, I, too, would like to join members in recognizing the achievements of Saul Miller and in recognizing his contribution both in this Chamber and outside the Chamber to Manitobans and to this province.

I had the occasion to attend the shiva at his home following his passing, and the joy that greeted me upon entering that home was something that I will not forget. The reflections of the family and general joy and love felt in that household is something that I will carry with me a long time and reflect back upon.

I felt honoured when I was nominated to be the New Democratic Party candidate in Kildonan almost four years ago this time. I remember looking out in the crowd and seeing Saul Miller there, and I can remember being very touched that Saul Miller, of all people, I thought, would come to my nomination meeting. I remember I made mention of it in my speech, and I was touched by his presence.

My Leader and other members and the Premier have mentioned probably the strength of this man was his humility, and amazing‑‑I have the impression he had a tremendous confidence in himself, Madam Deputy Speaker, such a confidence in himself that he did not need, in any false or any other means, to show it. He simply went about his life doing a good job and doing good work in almost everything and everywhere he touched. It is interesting when you reflect upon the comments of the onerous posts he held in cabinet. You forget, oh yes, he had that post, he had Health, he had Education, he had Finance, and the fact is that he did admirable jobs in all of them and it was not a big show. It was simply good hard work and the results were there for all to see.

My Leader spoke of the fact that Ed Schreyer had the two Sauls, and I think that that is so very, very true. You know, Madam Deputy Speaker, I had many occasions, since I was elected, to come across or to talk with Saul and, something I reflected on, I always wanted to sit down and have a long talk with him, that long talk which unfortunately I put off too long and did not have occasion to do, about politics and history and the like because I was so interested in what we had done.

I had occasion to attend a social function with him and Sylvia several years ago and was totally entertained by them reminiscing about stories about the Schreyer government, about that time and era, and I wanted to sit down with him and have that long talk about politics in general, but unfortunately time was not on our side, and I did not have the opportunity.

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I do want to close with a recognition of the‑‑you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, I could probably spend 50 years. I happen to represent part of the area that Saul Miller represented. I could probably spend 50 years representing that area and would probably not be held in the kind of esteem that I know people in that area hold Saul Miller. It is quite remarkable when you go door to door and people mention Saul, and I think that is a tribute to the man. He did it without a lot of fanfare, and he did it with a good deal of humility and there was much, much, much to learn from his life and from the way he approached politics and life in general.

I close with that, Madam Deputy Speaker, reflecting on the fact that I feel very honoured to be representing an area that was represented partially by Saul Miller and could only hope, in the time that I am elected, to be held in the same kind of recognition that he was. Even half of that would be quite an achievement. Thank you.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): As one who was privileged to have served in this Chamber with the late Saul Miller, I just want to associate my name with those honourable members who have spoken in the memory of Saul Miller.

Saul Miller and I were both elected to this Chamber at the same time in 1966. It was my privilege to have been taken into Premier Duff Roblin's cabinet at that time. So my first observations of Saul Miller's career in this Chamber were as a rookie MLA in opposition benches.

That did not last for too long because Mr. Miller, of course, was part of the group that removed us from office three short years later, in June of '69. Then it was my turn to observe Mr. Miller right from his early start in government as a senior cabinet minister in the Schreyer administration. That remained the case for a full eight years.

I would like to refer to the time that I was in opposition benches as my postgraduate years. It is a humbling experience, a very worthwhile experience. I recommend it to all members of this House to experience it for some part of their legislative career.

We in the opposition always had a pretty clear indication about where precisely there was difficulty for the government, for the administration, because usually Mr. Miller was asked to fix it or asked to move into that portfolio which was at the time providing some of the most difficult challenges for the then administration.

Throughout his legislative career, I simply want to endorse what all members have said. Mr. Miller was a gentleman in this Chamber. He had time for all, certainly for all opposition members. Inasmuch as most of the years that I served in this Chamber with Mr. Miller, he, in fact, was the representative of government and I was an opposition member, I can attest to his openness to all members, regardless of what side of the House we came from with problems that we all had from time to time in our constituencies.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I simply take this occasion as the only member in this Chamber who had the privilege of sitting with Mr. Miller to pass on the condolences of myself and that of this House on this occasion. It is a tradition that I respect very much in this Chamber, that we take a bit of time from our busy schedules to engage in the formal passing of these kinds of resolutions. Thank you.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Would all honourable members please rise to observe one minute of silence and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion.

A moment of silence was observed.

Leslie Osland

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), that this House convey to the family of the late Leslie Osland, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty and a useful life of active community and public service, and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Motion presented.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, Leslie Milton Osland was elected to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba in the general election of 1973 for the electoral division of Churchill. During his tenure in the Legislature, he was appointed as legislative assistant to both the Minister of Municipal Affairs and the Minister of Industry and Commerce.

He was born in Portage la Prairie and educated in Winnipeg. Mr. Osland served in the medical branch of the Royal Canadian Navy as a petty officer and carried forward this service at Fort Churchill Hospital before joining the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development as an assistant superintendent.

Mr. Osland had an active career in community service at Churchill, having served as president of the Churchill Chamber of Commerce, a member of the Churchill Whalers Co‑op and a member of the Port of Churchill Development Board and a member of the Churchill Housing Authority.

Madam Deputy Speaker, my colleagues join with me in extending our deepest sympathies to the Osland family on their loss.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to join the Premier in the motion today before the Chamber and forward our condolences to the Osland family, his wife Doreen who resides in Spruce Grove, Les's children, Gordon, Leah, Len, Maureen, Lesley and Karen.

We were very saddened to hear of the passing of Les Osland. We received a number of phone calls on the date when we learned of his passing at Spruce Grove. A number of people from the Churchill community in northern Manitoba talked about the tremendous life and contributions that Les made to northern Manitoba and to the Churchill riding.

He was first elected in 1973 and he was the first member of our party to win that riding, which was absolutely huge. If you can imagine today a riding the size of Rupertsland, Flin Flon and Thompson, that gives you some idea of the scope of the riding in 1973. Of course, Les resided in Churchill. After leaving the Department of Indian Affairs and working so much in community affairs, when he was elected as the MLA, there was no travel allowance in those days. As I am told by members of Churchill that live in the community today, Les would have to get on a train to come from Churchill to the caucus meetings and, of course, return back again, two days each way. To save money, we understand, Les for two days would eat bag lunches on the train to come and represent northern Manitoba in this Legislature.

He was a deeply committed individual, and he is remembered as a very kind and nice person, again, a person who was involved in his community and cared deeply about its citizens. He kind of worked in, as I understand it, a little bit of a northern team with former MLA Mr. Barrow from northern Manitoba.

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We certainly know some parts of the contributions of his family. I know Gord Osland is chair of the Children's Festival that is held every year‑‑this year at The Forks‑‑and he is also a musician with Fred Penner. If anybody remembers showing their children tapes of Fred Penner, the drummer is Les Osland's son, Gord Osland. When I take my daughter to see Fred Penner, of course, she knows every person in that band and was very impressed to meet the drummer of the Fred Penner band, but, of course, he is also very involved with all kinds of children in the Children's Festival. Of course, all his other children are contributing to their communities and contributing to their own careers.

Les was highly regarded in the community of Churchill. He was very concerned about raising his children in Churchill even though he was elected to come to this Legislature, and it always presented a real challenge to him.

There are lots of stories. When you talk to Bob Penwarden and Gavin Grizzly [phonetic] and others from the Churchill community, they have numbers of stories about everytime‑‑on every occasion when Les left, there was some story to tell about the family, the pipes being frozen and them pouring water into the pipes and not realizing certain valves were not shut and the pipes then flooding the home, so they had not only frozen pipes but flooded homes in the middle of 45‑ and 50‑below weather. I am not sure‑‑it was Fahrenheit then‑‑what it would be in centigrade, but it was very cold, extremely cold.

He has quite a reputation and quite a lot of esteem that his fellow citizens have towards him in terms of the role he had as an MLA and the work in his community.

I also know that Les continued on in public affairs. He was very involved in a home for handicapped children, both he and his wife Doreen, and they dedicated their spirits for many years for the care of the handicapped. It is interesting and noteworthy that they called on donations in lieu of flowers to be made to the projects they worked so hard at and the causes they believed so strongly in in the Spruce Grove, Alberta, community.

I want to say that we want to pay tribute to the life and career of Les Osland. He was very involved in his caucus. I know he seconded the Speech from the Throne from the Schreyer government, and he was very involved in his caucus activity. He had a very, very distinguished career prior to public office in the navy, of which he was also very, very proud of.

We certainly want to say to Doreen and the whole family that his contributions are well remembered by people in Churchill and people in this Legislature, and we pass our sorrow on to the family and our condolences to the Osland family. Thank you.

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): I would like to put a few words on the record on behalf of the colleagues in my caucus to send condolences to the family of Leslie Milton Osland, who represented the members and constituents of Churchill and was elected to this Legislature on June 28, 1973, and served until the general election in 1977.

I was interested in reading about not only Mr. Osland's accomplishments as a politician but also very much community service involvement, particularly in his home community of Churchill. Obviously, Mr. Osland served and spent a lot of his time, as he was president of the Churchill Chamber of Commerce, a member of the Churchill Whalers Co‑op, also a member of the Port of Churchill Development Board and also a member of the Churchill Housing Authority.

Having had the opportunity to visit the community of Churchill, there is no question that it is a very tight‑knit community and offers very much to the people there. I am sure that Mr. Osland's community work, as well, assisted the people of Churchill in moving ahead as a community. I was particularly interested as well to note that, when Mr. Osland retired to Alberta, he and his wife spent quite a bit of time working for a home for the handicapped, and that obviously speaks to Mr. Osland's dedication to community service.

I certainly join with my colleagues in the Liberal caucus in extending condolences to Mr. Osland's wife and to his children. We do pass on those condolences and say to the family that all of us here in this Legislature certainly appreciate the dedication and the commitment of Mr. Osland as he represented very well the members and the constituents of Churchill.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): It is indeed an honour to say a few words about the late Les Osland, who was a personal friend of mine, a mentor and kind of an adopted uncle in my younger years growing up in Churchill, as was said by the First Minister and also the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Osland was first elected in 1973 in the former Churchill constituency. As was said as well, it was very difficult at that time to travel in the constituency, and many times he had to take that long train trip from Churchill to Winnipeg to make it to the business meetings, the caucus meetings and other business of the House.

Many of the people in the community of Churchill remember Mr. Osland as being a very respected man and a hardworking man. As was said earlier, he served in the Royal Canadian Navy and fought for a continued military presence in the community of Churchill.

It has also been mentioned that his children, which include Gordon and Leonard, and the daughters‑‑one of the daughters, Karen, being very active in foster parent activities in this province and in this country currently. The late Les Osland and his wife, Doreen, raised a family that is respectful to all people.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

I remember when he first decided to seek office in the Manitoba Legislature in 1973, he was instructed under no uncertain terms that the community of Churchill had to be given some attention. As the MLA for the area, it was the responsibility of Les, given by the people of Churchill, that the conditions that the people were subjected to live under at that time had to be improved.

So Les was very instrumental in assisting the development of Churchill the way we know it today. Perhaps some members of this House have had an opportunity to visit the community in recent years, but in the early '70s things were not always that good for the people of that community.

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Many times the honourable member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes), who was born in Churchill, and myself, who was raised there, have raised the issue of the people who had to live in Third World conditions in what is known as the Flats, with no running water and having to go to outdoor facilities in 40‑ to 50‑below weather. Many people here will have heard the term "a whiteout." That is what occurred quite regularly during the wintertime.

So Les worked very hard for the people and took a lot of people under his wing to teach them in his capacity as a community development worker with the Department of Indian Affairs after he finished his service in the navy and also his employment at the Fort Churchill hospital.

But one thing that should be said in respect for his memory is his respect that was always evident for all people, no matter what colour, no matter what their background. He worked tirelessly, particularly for aboriginal people in the community of Churchill, and all the people in the community and the Churchill constituency as well.

He also was very instrumental in being able to assist through his work at the Department of Indian Affairs, prior to becoming an MLA, in working with the Dene people, who are now living in a place we know as Tadoule Lake. I remember he worked with people like Danny Bighead and Peter Thorassie from the Dene Village, who were concerned about the ongoing loss of life of the Dene people who were moved to Churchill in the early '60s from their homeland known as Duck Lake. It was his work and his efforts and the efforts of many others that helped the people of Dene Village, as it was known then, move to where they are now located at Tadoule Lake and now are regarded as the Dene Sayisi people.

Certainly he recognized the alcoholism and drug abuse and the different abuses that were going on in that small community, and he worked with the community leadership in trying to correct that situation and work for the wishes of the people in trying to relocate back to their homeland and the area that they were most familiar with.

I also remember Les working with people in the community and motivating people in trying to improve the lives of the people of Churchill. Churchill is a nice place to visit now, but at one time it was not. People like Gavin Lawrie, Belinda Vandenbroeck, Jack Robinson, Myrtle DeMeulles, Lilly Wokes‑‑these names pop up in my mind as I think about Les Osland this afternoon. Les worked with these people in being able to achieve what the community has been able to achieve for itself.

After he had finished his term as the MLA for Churchill in 1977, he went back there because he wanted to spend more time with his family and also the community and, shortly after, was elected the mayor of the community. I think Mr. Osland was well liked in the community, and people hold his memory in high regard. That respect was always there. It is unfortunate that we lost Les on the 2nd of March in 1993, but we should take comfort in what the older ones tell us, the wiser ones, that he is now with the relatives who have gone before him in that next world that we will all ultimately wind up at.

That was the other aspect of Mr. Osland that I recall; it was his spiritual belief. Not necessarily a strong Christian person, but he always reminded us younger ones that it was important to believe in a higher power for our own inner strength. There are many young people like myself whom he tutored in our younger days so that we would one day perhaps seek our way out of the craziness that we were living under at that time and be able to contribute and speak on behalf of our people.

I am indeed honoured, Mr. Speaker, to stand and honour the memory of this fine man who has passed on. I join with the others in expressing my sympathies and belated condolences to his wife Doreen and all his family members. Thank you.

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Mr. Speaker, I would just like to add my few comments to the honour and memory of Les Osland. When he first moved up to Churchill, which is the community where I grew up, and I remember Mr. Osland when he first came up. He was in the navy, and through his children, Gord, Len and Maureen, that is how I got to know the family.

They were very community minded at that time, and Len was always involved in community activities. His son, Gord, I used to play hockey with him, so we got to be friends and I spent some time in their household.

They were very committed to all people in Churchill when they were living up there. I remember many times when Les would pull us aside and have little father‑to‑son, I guess you would call it, chats with us to just remind us about some of the things that we were doing that we should not be doing. I think the reason he did that is because he had a genuine caring for people.

When I heard that he had passed away, I received many phone calls from people in Churchill expressing their sorrow at that time and sharing their best wishes to the family.

He is survived by his wife, Doreen, in Spruce Grove, Alberta; his sister, Olive; and brothers Mel, John, Norm and Wally; and his children, Gord, Leah, Len, Maureen, Lesley and Karen. He has many grandchildren across Canada and Germany.

The most important thing for me in remembering Mr. Osland is the effort and hard work and commitment he had to the people who were living at that time in Churchill. They were moved from Duck Lake, and they were Dene people. I recall as a child‑‑I used to go to school with a lot of children at that time who were moved, and it was really difficult for them because they were put into little shacks‑‑that is all they were‑‑right on top of the hill next to the graveyard. If you know anything about the community of Churchill, when you get the wind picking up off the bay and it is 40 below zero, it gets extremely, extremely cold.

That whole community was moved to Churchill at that time without much thought put into it: where the little shacks were placed; there were no employment opportunities for the people. The biggest thing was they put in wood stoves in all these little houses, and there was no supply of wood. So, because of the extreme cold, they started taking their porches apart and their steps just to try to keep warm.

The reason I say that is because it is a fact of history what happened there, and Mr. Osland, when he was the Indian Affairs agent, worked with the community and with the people and helped them fulfill their wishes to go back to their own part of the territory, which is now Tadoule Lake.

I know, speaking to a lot of my friends whom I went to school with, they are much happier, and they really thank all the people who were involved in it.

Mr. Osland, I remember when he was working with the people‑‑he worked very closely with my older brother, John, who is two years older than I am. He worked with Les Osland, with Indian Affairs, at that time, and they used to travel to many communities and work closely with the people.

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Les was also president of the Chamber of Commerce. One of the biggest benefits that he helped the community and us aboriginal people achieve at that time was to help the aboriginal people put together a whalers co‑op. There were very few employment opportunities at that time, and there used to be a whaling factory run by people from Dauphin at that time. We used to harvest about 600 whales a year, and it used to give us employment opportunities and some income for ourselves and our families, but when they pulled out there was really nothing left.

Through the whalers co‑op which was run by aboriginal people and organized by Les and others, we had our own whalers co‑op, and we were successful in harvesting whales at that time.

Then when the factory got a little too old and it could not work properly, they formed what they called the whalers captures co‑op, and Les was very helpful in organizing that, along with my brother, Johnny. Through that, we were able to gain some income and, yes, we did, we caught whales, we exported them to other countries, and at that time it was a means of income for us.

So if you look back at the memory of Mr. Osland, we from Churchill, like myself, we have a lot to thank him for, because I know he worked extremely hard and over the call of duty that was ever placed on anyone. You could run into him anywhere and he always had time and he would give the effort to listen to you and to help you.

So my memories of Mr. Osland were, if I had to sum it up in a few words, I would say a person that was dedicated to all citizens of Churchill, whether you were aboriginal or nonaboriginal. It did not matter to him, he was there to help us, and he did in many ways. He was also an educator for us younger people when he would take time and listen to us and explain a few things, and try and keep us on the straight.

So a lot of us from Churchill owe many thanks to Mr. Osland and his family, and I know that I speak on behalf of a lot of citizens from the community of Churchill.

So with that, I would just like to pass on my condolences and the family can be very, very proud of accomplishments and contributions of Mr. Osland. Thank you.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Mr. Speaker, I wanted to raise a number of comments today in terms of Les Osland.

I remember Les Osland when I first got involved in politics, Mr. Speaker. In fact, I decided in 1973 I was going to get involved politically. I joined the party of which I am still proud to be a member. I worked in an election campaign and got to know many of the candidates and elected officials.

In fact, in 1973 it was the election in which the Ed Schreyer government was re‑elected, and there was a newly elected member for the constituency of Churchill. Of course, the Churchill constituency played a very pivotal role in terms of politics in those years.

I still remember Gordon Beard, who had originally been a government member in the Roblin government and who had quit politics, ran again in 1969. It was a rather interesting campaign because this was the first time that Thompson was a separate constituency and, of course, Joe Borowski, a very colourful individual, who is still around certainly and participates in public debates, was elected, actually in the by‑election in the original Churchill seat, in 1969 and then re‑elected as part of the Thompson constituency. Gordon Beard, who by then was an independent, was elected in 1969. There were some interesting candidates, one of whom was Wilf Hudson who had run previously in Churchill and, of course, went on to be president of the MFL, and is currently retired in Dauphin.

It was an interesting time, because there was a very close margin in the government at that time. In fact, Gordon Beard provided much of the support on some of the key issues at that time.

This led into the time in 1973 in which the election took place. Les Osland ran and in many ways had some very big shoes to follow in in terms of following Gordon Beard, Joe Borowski, et cetera. I guess what I remember about Les Osland was his persona, I suppose, if you like, his character, the type of individual he was. He certainly struck me, from the first time I met him, as someone who should represent a constituency such as Churchill.

In fact, in those days, Mr. Speaker, I remember talking to him at NDP conventions about the difficult time that was entailed in terms of representing that constituency with the tremendous amounts of travel. I must say, since that time and having gone on to be elected into a northern constituency, but one that is served by a road, perhaps it is rather a lengthy travel distance of eight hours, and now being in a position where we have greatly improved travel allowances, it is hard often not to forget the fact that in 1973 it was a considerably different time. In those days, there was no travel allowance out of session. One had to take the bus to Thompson or take the train which, to travel to Churchill, would take 36 hours. Although it is still not that easy, and I look to the current member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson), who I know has all sorts of travel considerations to look at in terms of his vast constituency, I think it is very important to remember just how significant the travel was in terms of that.

In terms of Les Osland, what I also remember was his involvement, his outspokenness at a time when there was a great deal of change in northern Manitoba. This is the time period in which the Department of Northern Affairs was established, many of the roads were built, the opening of many winter roads in northern Manitoba, the opening of many of the airports that we currently see. Many of the recreational facilities in northern Manitoba were established at that time, the establishment of the Northern Association of Community Councils. Many organizations, in fact, have their roots back in that particular time, Mr. Speaker, the Communities Economic Development Fund, which currently is still in operation.

Many of the developments in northern Manitoba came about in that era, and I know in terms of Les Osland that he was very much a part of those discussions. In fact, having served in government myself from 1981 to 1988 in the rather honourable role as a backbencher, Mr. Speaker‑‑and I say that because Les Osland was a backbencher, but, you know, he was a strong fighter for his constituency and was able to get a lot done in the very short period of time that he was in the Legislature, the one term. I know he went back to his community and continued to serve the community. I think Les Osland will be a model to many of us in this House.

In fact I hope that when I decide or the electorate decides, whichever may come first, to leave this Assembly, I will be able to continue in the way that Les Osland did when he left politics in terms of serving his community, be an active part of public life. Certainly, many people still remember Les Osland, certainly in the community of Churchill, certainly in many areas in northern Manitoba that he represented. Certainly, there are many people like myself in northern Manitoba who remember him very well, remember our discussions with him very well.

I think when we say, as we do, in this particular motion, talking about a life of public service, I think that certainly is applicable to Les Osland, and we do well today to state on the record our tributes to his involvement and certainly his involvement here in the Manitoba Legislature.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members please rise and remain standing for a moment's silence to indicate their support for this motion.

A moment of silence was observed.

Anthony Reid

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), that this House convey to the family of the late Anthony John Reid, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Motion presented.

* (1630)

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, Anthony John Reid was born in East Kildonan in 1909 and was raised and lived in the community of East Kildonan his entire life. Mr. Reid was employed by the Canadian Pacific Railway, retiring after 42 years of service. He was a lifelong member of Gordon‑King Memorial Church, where he served on the council and the community committee. He was a member of the East Kildonan Masonic Lodge No. 131 and an honorary life member of the Royal Canadian Legion Prince Edward Branch No. 81.

Mr. Reid was engaged in an active political career, serving as alderman for 12 years. He was first elected to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba in the general election held on June 16, 1958, as a member of the Co‑operative Commonwealth Federation Party for the electoral division of Kildonan. He was re‑elected in the general election of 1959 and defeated in the general election of 1962.

My colleagues join with all members of the Legislature in extending our deepest condolences to the members of his family on his passing and our thanks for a lifelong commitment to public service in his beloved community of East Kildonan and the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I would like to join with the Premier on the condolence motion today before us for Tony Reid. As the Premier has noted, Mr. Reid is another member of his community, a grassroots member of his community, having been elected alderman of East Kildonan and later to serve two terms as a member of this Legislative Assembly, first as a member of the CCF and then re‑elected in 1959 again as a member of the CCF, the predecessor of the New Democratic Party.

Tony was a railroader. Forty‑two years on the CPR is a long and distinguished career. Certainly we know, in talking to his friends and people that knew Tony, that he had a strong sense and he regarded himself very strongly to be a person who fought for the underprivileged and a person who fought for the working person.

I note that Tony Reid enjoyed his time with his family at his cottage at Laclu, Ontario. That would be very fitting, Mr. Speaker. I know the beauty of that lake. Secondly, I know also that it has a number of cottages that are occupied by people from the Canadian Pacific Railway. The railway of course goes through that area, the old CPR mainline. Many people that worked on that railway years and years ago had a choice of buying land there or land in Grand Beach. Some chose Laclu, and some chose Grand Beach. To this day, some of them still argue about which choice was better than the other in terms of the decisions they made years ago. I have no bias because Ginny's parents have a place at Grand Beach, and I have spent a little time at Laclu, and I think they are both wonderful places.

Tony worked as a volunteer with the Masonic Lodge. He worked in the Royal Canadian Legion, the Prince Edward Branch. He was deeply involved in his community and with his neighbours. I know it is fitting that his last days, unfortunately, were spent at the Concordia Hospital, which of course was part of his community. He worked very hard for East Kildonan, E.K. as he would call it.

We want to pass on our deep condolences to his wife, Tillie, and his daughter, Lesley Anne, and her husband, Ken. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to join the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) in expressing condolences to the family of Anthony John Reid, known as Tony Reid. This gentleman was born in East Kildonan and grew up in East Kildonan and obviously with his distinguished career certainly served, among other communities, that community of East Kildonan.

Mr. Reid was an alderman in the East Kildonan area and then was elected to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba in the general election that was held in 1958 and was elected to the party that was then known as the CCF or Co‑operative Commonwealth Federation Party. He was re‑elected in the general election in May of 1958, and Mr. Reid was defeated in the general election in December of 1962.

Certainly during his time as a member of the Legislature, he served his community well. He was not only involved in the Legislative Assembly but was also involved in many organizations such as the East Kildonan Masonic Lodge, and he was also a member of the Royal Canadian Legion, Prince Edward Branch No. 81.

Mr. Speaker, my colleagues in the Liberal caucus certainly join with other members of the Legislative Assembly in extending our condolences to the family of Tony Reid. We extend condolences to his wife, Tillie, and his daughter, Lesley Anne.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to rise to recognize some of the life accomplishments of one Tony Reid. In looking back at some of the history of Tony, while I did not know the individual personally, I looked at some of the records for the years in which Mr. Reid had served the Manitoba Legislature and, of course, the people of Kildonan. Mr. Reid is survived by his wife, Tillie, and his daughter, Lesley Ann, and two sisters and two brothers as well as some grandchildren, I am led to believe.

I am not the first Reid, obviously, to serve in the Manitoba Legislature. Obviously, Tony Reid preceded me in this Chamber, and it is only fitting that I stand today to recognize his accomplishments and his willingness to serve on behalf of his constituency of Kildonan.

Of course, Tony Reid was an employee of CP Rail, as other members of the Chamber have said, for some 42 years prior to his coming to this Chamber to serve his constituents. Forty‑two years is a long career in itself, and then to have a second career in the Manitoba Legislature, it is an honour to the individual for his dedication on behalf of his community. Of course, other members of the Chamber have pointed out that Tony was also an alderman for some 12 years, so he has a history of wanting to serve the members of his community which he represented.

I look back at some of the things, some of the people who have represented various communities, Mr. Speaker. From northeast Winnipeg there have been several other railroaders prior to Tony who have served in the Manitoba Legislature, being George Olive and Russ Paulley. I am sure there will be others coming along in the future that hopefully will be from railway experience as well, will be able to serve and represent‑‑[interjection] Harry Harapiak is another one. Thank you for that. So there have been a number of people who have had railroad experience and served in this Chamber.

I also note in the obituary for Tony, Mr. Speaker, that he was actively involved in the Antique Car Club. That, from my experience, seems to be a pastime or a hobby of many railroaders, people who have a long history of working with the railroad, some of them personal friends of mine who currently work in antique car clubs. So Tony kept good company in his hobbies and I guess in his career as well. I also note, too, that he had spent some time, some of the happier moments in his life at Lac Lu in northwestern Ontario, country with which I am familiar. Having gone to that part of Canada for some 30‑plus years myself, I know what the country is like. It is very beautiful country.

Also, Tony served on the Masonic Lodge No. 131 and was also a life member of the Royal Canadian Legion, Prince Edward Branch, so he was again actively involved in serving his community and wanting to participate.

I also note in looking back at the statement of votes, Mr. Speaker, from the past in the elections of 1958 to 1959, Tony was successful in being elected, of course, in '58 and '59, and I think the margin was between 100 and 150 votes, so it was a very tight election, and then having two elections back to back in successive years is quite an accomplishment for an individual considering the amount of work that it takes. I also note that in the election of 1962 that Tony was unsuccessful by a margin of only four votes, Mr. Speaker, so he came very close to serving three terms as the MLA for Kildonan, so it was a very close contest.

I would like, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my caucus colleagues and my family, to extend to the Tony Reid family our sincere condolences and to thank the family, and Tony in particular, for serving the residents of Kildonan and for his years of hard work and dedication to the people of this province.

Thank you.

* (1640)

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Will honourable members please rise and remain standing for a moment's silence to indicate their support for the motion.

A moment of silence was observed.

Mr. Speaker: Prior to recognizing the honourable First Minister (Mr. Filmon) for, I believe, the last condolence motion, is it the will of the House to waive private members' hour, so that I do not have to interrupt whichever honourable member is speaking at that time? [agreed]

C. Rhodes Smith

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Ernst), that this House convey to the family of the late C. Rhodes Smith, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Motion presented.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, C. Rhodes Smith was born in Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, on March 20, 1896. After completing Grade 11 with an Isbister scholarship, a distinction which we share, in Kelvin High School's first graduating class, Mr. Smith entered the University of Manitoba, where he received a Bachelor of Arts with two gold medals in 1916.

Following his graduation, he served in England and France with the Canadian and British armies in the First World War. Back in Winnipeg after recovering from a severe abdominal wound, Mr. Smith was awarded a Rhodes scholarship to study at Oxford.

During these two and a half years, he earned his B.A. Honours in jurisprudence and a Bachelor of Civil Law. Upon his return to Winnipeg, he received his LL.B. and was called to the Manitoba Bar in 1923. Mr. Smith started his law practice, but soon became also a lecturer at the Law School.

In 1935 to 1941, he served as a Winnipeg city alderman. He was first elected to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba in the general election of April 22, 1941 for the Liberal Party for the electoral division of Winnipeg Centre. He was re‑elected in the general elections of 1945 and 1949. He served in the portfolio of Minister of Labour in the coalition government from February 1946 through to December 1948. He was Minister of Education from December 1948 through August 1950. He was appointed Attorney General from August 1950 through November 1952.

In 1952, he was appointed the first chair of the Restrictive Trade Practices Commission. In 1963, he returned to Manitoba as a justice of the Court of Queen's Bench. In 1966, he joined the Court of Appeal, and the next year, he became Chief Justice of Manitoba.

Upon compulsory retirement from the court in 1971, he was named by the Schreyer administration to chair the commission of inquiry into Churchill Forest Industries. Still later, he served as a deputy judge of the Federal Court of Canada, chaired the Winnipeg Commission on Conflict of Interest and chaired public hearings of the Inter‑Church Task Force on Northern Flooding.

Mr. Justice Smith was very active in a variety of community organizations, notably the Royal Canadian Legion, the YMCA, Winnipeg Social Planning Council, the Manitoba Association for Rights and Liberties. These groups and others recognized his contributions with numerous awards, and both the University of Manitoba and the University of Winnipeg inferred the honourary degree of Doctor of Laws upon him.

My recollections of Mr. Justice C. Rhodes Smith, Mr. Speaker, were, of course, in my young adult years when he was the Chief Justice of Manitoba. That always seemed to be the reference that I remember, Mr. Justice C. Rhodes Smith, the Chief Justice of Manitoba. I had the pleasure and the privilege of meeting him on numerous occasions later on when his daughter‑in‑law, Muriel Smith, was elected to this Assembly and served for a number of years as a cabinet minister in the Pawley government, and along with her husband, Murray, we would meet on many social occasions. She would always have Mr. Justice C. Rhodes Smith at the openings of the Legislature and any major events that were held in this building. I often, from time to time, would say hello and have a few words with him.

He was certainly a very distinguished Manitoban, a man who brought great honour and credit to his family, to this Legislature and to our province. He was a learned individual. He was a man of tremendous capacity, intellectual capacity, and one who will, I think, remain honoured for all time as a distinguished Manitoban.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all of my colleagues and, I am sure, all members of this Legislature, we join in extending deepest condolences to his two sons, Clifford and Murray, and their families, as they mourn the loss of the honourable Mr. Justice C. Rhodes Smith, and we certainly extend our appreciation for a life of dedicated public service.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I want to join in the tribute to the life and career of C. Rhodes Smith. We always knew, I guess, in our years that C. Rhodes Smith was a tower of strength in Manitoba and that when you start listening to the Premier's biography and you look back through the career of C. Rhodes Smith, this is truly a remarkable human being and a remarkable Manitoban. Obviously, he was a soldier, he was a jurist, he was a scholar, he was a community activist and a public figure.

I note with great care his early political career and the number of portfolios he held in the coalition government and then the Liberal government of former Premier Campbell. The positions he held were ones of a great deal of importance in the province of Manitoba, and we understand that he had a distinguished political career and public career in his activity. His scholarly record is impeccable, degree after degree, honourary degrees later on in life, scholarships and great acclaim as a scholar. His work as a lawyer eventually led to his appointment as a judge and then the Chief Justice of the province of Manitoba.

I knew C. Rhodes Smith after the CFI inquiry, which, of course, we all read about. We all still continue to debate in this Chamber in terms of the various conclusions that were drawn by C. Rhodes Smith in that inquiry of the CFI operation in the province of Manitoba.

* (1650)

I had the privilege of working on a board of directors with C. Rhodes Smith. The Main Street Group Homes was established sometime in the '70s. I cannot even remember the date. C. Rhodes Smith, at that point, was on the board of directors of the social planning council of Winnipeg, and he was made chair of the board.

Of course, the goal was to take kids from Main Street who were just dropping into the Main Street Centre and establish some group homes that would allow these kids to have a residence and to have some kind of security of home. C. Rhodes Smith was our first chair, and I was on the board. I was always impressed with his great wisdom of how to get something going, how to make it work and the great social conscience he had in terms of wanting to get a place for these kids that found themselves down on Main Street and found themselves dropping into the Main Street Centre.

It was a great marriage of talent with people like John Rodgers who were working on the front lines with people in Winnipeg and at the Main Street Project, a job he continues to perform, I think, admirably today and a person like C. Rhodes Smith, a former cabinet minister, a former Chief Justice, who had the absolute wherewithal to get something going and get the support of the business community and the social agencies in Manitoba to get this project approved.

When you are on a board of directors with a person like that, again, it is the kind of board you sit and listen at and should not talk a lot, because the wisdom that comes from an individual like C. Rhodes Smith is just a great, great treasure, and it is something that you never forget. I certainly never forgot his contributions.

Mr. Speaker, I do remember meeting C. Rhodes Smith, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) indicated, socially on a number of occasions. As the Premier indicated, his son was Murray and his daughter‑in‑law was Muriel, and they, of course, participated in many of the events around this Legislature. They believe strongly in the traditions of the democracy in this Chamber and would participate in the events of opening and other events that I had the chance to participate in. Muriel, of course, was the Deputy Premier of the Pawley government and a very prominent member of the cabinet.

I also recall meeting C. Rhodes Smith at other social events and he was, as I say, a very, very wise individual with a great deal of knowledge and a great deal of experience. He always had a strong opinion on matters of the day and had a great deal of knowledge and wisdom about how those issues were dealt with in the past and how he would see them being dealt with in the future.

I want to pass on our condolences to the family, both Murray and Clifford, and want to pay tribute to this career that spanned so many years and spanned so many great contributions from the military to legal profession to public affairs in this Legislature to the bench and to his community that he served. Thank you.

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased, on behalf of my caucus, to put some comments on the record in the memory of C. Rhodes Smith who was born not even in this century but in 1896 and obviously led a very distinguished career.

(Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)

In 1923, he graduated from the University of Manitoba with two gold medals which is certainly worthy of congratulations. Also, again in the early '20s, for individuals from rural Manitoba, it was even unusual to go on to post‑secondary education. Certainly from his early years he was an outstanding individual. He went on, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has indicated today, to receive a Rhodes scholarship and later on also received his law degree from the University of Manitoba in 1923.

Mr. Smith served as a city alderman and was elected to the Manitoba Legislature on April 22, 1941, which, as we remember back, was during World War II. So again, it would have been very interesting times in the 1940s for politicians in Manitoba.

Mr. Smith served in what was then the coalition government as Minister of Labour. He served from 1946 to 1948. Mr. Smith also went on to be the Minister of Education and as well, during his distinguished career, served as Attorney General from August of 1950 through November of 1952.

Again, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) have indicated, Mr. Smith's career did not end with his years as being an active politician, but he went on to serve as a justice of the Court of Queen's Bench in 1963 and also served as Chief Justice of this province.

Mr. Smith, as well, was a very active member of a number of community organizations, including the YMCA and the Royal Canadian Legion, where he was a member. Mr. Smith served on the Social Planning Council of Winnipeg and also was a member of, at that time, a new organization, the Manitoba Association of Rights and Liberties.

It certainly is a pleasure for me to reflect upon the memory and the career of Chief Justice C. Rhodes Smith and to extend to his family, his sons Murray and Clifford, the condolences of our caucus and the condolences of members of the Legislative Assembly.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Acting Speaker, in 1936, when my father emigrated to western Canada from the Maritimes, he was looking for a lawyer. He found someone who was newly started in law practice at that time, a couple of years before my dad arrived here. That began a lifelong friendship between Rhodes Smith and my father.

In 1941, when my parents were married, he was the best man at the wedding. In 1941, when war was declared on Japan‑‑1942, there was a requirement because of other national reasons for Japanese‑Canadians who were located in the West Coast to be moved inland for security reasons at that time. A newly elected member of the Legislature, a good friend of Stuart Garson, who was the Attorney General, I believe, at the time, called upon my dad to chair the B.C. Securities Commission in Manitoba to look after Japanese‑Canadians brought from the West Coast to be relocated here. It was his job to find them accommodation, find them jobs, allowed them to get settled in Manitoba so that Rhodes Smith was a lifelong friend and certainly was instrumental in many of the things that my father did during his career.

The one thing they did of course do together was they were members of the Liberal Party. The fact that in those days Campbell Liberals were considerably more to the right of the political spectrum than Attila the Hun, in those days, I think, certainly more to the right than the Progressive Conservatives of the day. I think that continued all under Mr. Campbell's regime and through many of the years that Mr. Smith participated as a member of his government in his cabinet.

Interestingly enough, I am not so sure that he was overjoyed with the fact that his son Murray had become a little more left leaning than he might have liked, although it was the political process; and his children, he loved them all, and they were entitled to participate in the political democratic process on whatever basis they chose. As I say, I think there was a hint of sadness there that they would have leaned that far left of the political spectrum. Certainly his daughter‑in‑law and son taught for many years in Winnipeg. I see them still quite regularly at the Reh‑Fit Centre over on Taylor Avenue.

* (1700)

In the latter years, Rhodes Smith, when his health started to fail and he had not the ability to get around quite as easily, I know that on a couple of occasions Muriel was good enough to drive him over to my parents' house where they could share an evening of reminiscing and discussion about the things that had gone on during their respective lifetimes. He certainly had a long and varied career and one that has contributed significantly to the province of Manitoba.

I had the opportunity of attending the memorial service for Rhodes Smith shortly after he passed away, and many, many fine words were said there from amongst many of his closest friends. The problem, of course, when you reach the venerable age that Mr. Smith did, most of your friends are not there to participate, my father included. Nonetheless, his career will significantly contribute to the province of Manitoba, its development, its history, and he will be long remembered, I think, for the contribution that he did make. I offer my respects and condolences to the family as well. Thank you.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Laurendeau): Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Laurendeau): Would honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion.

A moment of silence was observed.

House Business

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Mr. Acting Speaker, it is my intention now to move the motion for Committee of Supply, following which I will ask that it be considered six o'clock, so we do not have to come back at eight o'clock in order to move the motion.

So I would move, Mr. Acting Speaker, seconded by the Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings), that Mr. Acting Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty.

Motion agreed to, and the House resolved itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty with the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) in the Chair for the Status of Women; and the honourable member for Seine River (Mrs. Dacquay) in the Chair for the Department of Highways and Transportation.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

(Concurrent Sections)

STATUS OF WOMEN

Mr. Deputy Chairperson (Marcel Laurendeau): Order, please. I call the committee to order.

Is it the will of the committee to call it six o'clock?

Some Honourable Members: Six o'clock.

Mr. Deputy Chairperson: Six o'clock. This committee now stands adjourned until eight o'clock. We will recess until eight o'clock.