LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Friday, June 3, 1994

The House met at 10 a.m.

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): It is my duty to inform the House of the unavoidable absence of Mr. Speaker, and therefore, in accordance with the statutes, I would call upon the Deputy Speaker to take the Chair.

(Mrs. Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)

PRAYERS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

PRESENTING PETITIONS

ACCESS Program Funding

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Vicki Frankel, Glen Schmidt, Billy Shane and others requesting the Legislative Assembly to request the Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Manness) to consider restoring funding to the ACCESS program.

Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): I beg to present the petition of Fred Dubetski, Eunice Dubetski, Ernie Dignard and others requesting the Legislative Assembly request the Minister of Education and Training to consider restoring funding to the ACCESS program.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Leslie Olynick, Shellie Sklepowich, Kerry G. Webb and others requesting the Legislative Assembly request the Minister of Education and Training to consider restoring funding to ACCESS programs.

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

Manitoba Historical Society Incorporation Act

Madam Deputy Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mrs. Render), and it complies with the rules and practices of the House. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

Some Honourable Members: Dispense.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Dispense.

The petition of Douglas Taylor, William J. Fraser and Lily B. Stearns praying for the passing of an act incorporating the Manitoba Historical Society so that the activities of the Manitoba Historical Society may continue as they have since its legal dissolution by virtue of the repeal of an act to incorporate the Historical Society of Manitoba on November 14, 1990.

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TABLING OF REPORTS

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to table the Supplementary Estimates for the Sustainable Development Innovations Fund.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Energy and Mines): Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to table the report from the Sustainable Development Committee: Applying Manitoba's Mineral Policies.

Introduction of Guests

Madam Deputy Speaker: I would like to draw to the attention of all members of the House some guests we have with us this morning in the gallery.

In the Speaker's Gallery we have Jason Fayre who is being recognized as the first blind‑from‑birth student to graduate from St. James‑Assiniboia School Division. Jason is a guest of the honourable Minister of Urban Affairs (Mrs. McIntosh).

Also with us today we have in the gallery, English language students from Sir William Osler School under the direction of Ms. Irene Halgren. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for River Heights (Mrs. Carstairs).

Also we have seated in the public gallery from Patal Vocational School, twenty‑five adult students under the direction of Ms. Debbie Douglas. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this morning.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Carte International Inc.

Employment Creation Strategy

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

Carte International is a company that has operated in the province of Manitoba over the last number of years. In 1988, it had 197 production staff, 40 administrative staff for a total workforce of about 237 to 240 people. The government has given this company a $500,000 interest‑free loan for a 42‑month period to allegedly create new jobs.

I would like to ask the minister how many new jobs have been created with this company and how high is the workforce with this Carte International today.

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Deputy Speaker, I will have to take that question as notice to get the specifics for the member.

Mr. Doer: Madam Deputy Speaker, in speeches the government has made, in press releases the government has issued, in the good‑news franks that the Tories have sent out to the many constituencies across the province‑‑[interjection] Well, the problem with the good news, it is not the real news‑‑the government is alleging that they created 72 new jobs with the $500,000 grant.

Madam Deputy Speaker, there are 94 people on the production floor in Winnipeg today. There are 35 people in Morden. There are close to 100 people less working today than when the government came to office.

How can they say to the people of Manitoba that they created new jobs with this interest‑free loan guarantee when, in fact, we have a reduction of work at this plant, not an increase as the government is bragging about in the province?

Mr. Downey: Madam Deputy Speaker, first of all, I want to acknowledge the Leader of the Opposition's support for the work that is being done and all the good news that is being put out there in the communique he refers to.

I said to the member I would get the specific information as the question was asked, but I also want to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that a week ago today, we saw the opening of Unitel in the city of Winnipeg, where they had projected they would have 200 jobs. They have closer to 400 full‑ and part‑time jobs in that period of time. I just want the member to know that there are some positive things happening.

Mr. Doer: Of course, the Deputy Premier and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) have been putting out this material, talking about creating new jobs, Madam Deputy Speaker. That is, of course, why unfortunately Manitoba was tied for last place last year in growth rate. All we have from this government is propaganda, not results. In fact, the results are opposite to what the government is alleging.

Madam Deputy Speaker, today in the Inner City Voice, an official of Carte International is quoted as saying: We were very surprised that the Tory newspaper had this material in it. It is not like we even expected that the managers were expecting very many jobs. I am not sure where the Conservative Party got them from.

The article goes on to note that Carte International is not only not hiring, but they have laid off over a hundred people in the last two years.

I would ask the government why they are putting this material out when it is contrary to the real reality which this company is going through.

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, as negative as the Leader of the Opposition wants to be and tends to be at all times under any circumstances about Manitoba, the fact of the matter is that, according to Statistics Canada, there are 10,000 more people employed in Manitoba today than there were in January of this year. In fact, there are 17,000 more people employed in Manitoba today than there were last April, a year ago April.

So there are jobs being created; there are many jobs. There are more than 10,000; there are 17,000 more people working in Manitoba today than a year ago April. That is fact, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Now, as hard as it is for this Leader of the Opposition to take‑‑

An Honourable Member: Answer the question.

Mr. Filmon: I wonder if the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen) would calm down a little bit. I know she does not like good news. I wonder if she would calm down a little bit. When I am asked a question‑‑

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I wonder if all honourable members would kindly respect the rules of this House. When a question is asked, it is only fair that all honourable members listen intently and when a response is being given, then a comparable reciprocal arrangement should be very free and willing.

The honourable First Minister, to finish your response.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, of course the opposition has every right to ask whatever questions they want, but they cannot dictate what answers we give.

They do not like the answer, to hear that 17,000 more people are employed in Manitoba today than were a year ago last April, because that is positive news. That is good news for Manitoba. They do not like that good news, Madam Deputy Speaker, but our people throughout Manitoba want to hear that good news and I am happy to deliver it, despite the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen).

St. Boniface Hospital

Layoffs

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Deputy Speaker, Manitoba's nurses and patients have told us they do not like the cuts this government has imposed on the health care system. This government has hitched itself to the Connie Curran boondoggle and paid her millions of dollars to make cuts.

We understand that a further 70 cuts, as a result of Connie Curran's recommendations, will be implemented at St. Boniface Hospital. I would like the Minister of Health to explain to us today why the government is permitting a further 70 cuts, as a result of Connie Curran's $4‑million recommendations, to go ahead.

Why is the minister permitting those to go ahead?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Deputy Speaker, if the honourable member has further questions about Connie Curran, there is a chief executive officer here in Canada whom he knows very well whom he can ask. That person is Mr. Michael Decter.

An Honourable Member: Who is Michael Decter?

Mr. McCrae: Who is Michael Decter? Michael Decter is a well‑known former Manitoban, secretary to the Executive Council under the Pawley government, the same government that included members like the member for Concordia (Mr. Doer), the member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman), the member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans). He is the brother‑in‑law of the president of the NDP in Manitoba, the brother‑in‑law of my opponent in 1990 in Brandon West.

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Point of Order

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Madam Deputy Speaker, if you would ask the minister to follow our rules: that answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with matters raised and should not provoke debate, and not get into the kind of personal attacks that he just made involving relationships of individuals. This is the 1990s. Individuals are judged on their own merit, not their relationship to someone. He should answer questions, answer questions on the health care system.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, on the same point of order, I believe that the New Democrats ought to look in the mirror, and if they promise that they will never again raise the name of, say, an Arni Thorsteinson or a Bob Kozminski, then we will never make reference to the sister‑in‑law of the new CEO of‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Thompson does not have a point of order. The honourable First Minister does not have a point of order. However, I would once again remind all honourable members to please respect the rules of the House that they know so well.

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Mr. Chomiak: Madam Deputy Speaker, no wonder the health care system is in so much chaos. We raise serious questions and they make fun. It is tragic, and that is one of the reasons the health care system is in difficulty. I think the people should be‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Does the honourable member for Kildonan have a question?

Mr. Chomiak: My supplementary to the minister, which I hope I can get an answer for, Madam Deputy Speaker: Will the minister ensure that not one additional nurse will be laid off at St. Boniface Hospital until everyone has found a position at least in the community, something that was promised by members opposite before Connie Curran and her $4‑million contract came in?

Mr. McCrae: While the honourable member was asking questions about cuts, I was serious. He need only talk to Michael Decter who was the Deputy Minister of Health in Ontario where 5,000 hospital beds have been closed and no thought whatever for the kind of care that might be required in the community.

So if the honourable member wants to know about cuts, he can talk to Michael Decter. He can talk to the health people in the province of Ontario, in the province of Saskatchewan where they have closed 52 hospitals. He can talk to the New Democrats in British Columbia if he wants to talk about cuts. You see, that is his program: cut. Never mind the patient. Just cut, because that is the NDP way.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I reject that way, and I will not move in the direction proposed by the honourable member.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Deputy Speaker, I realize the minister could not answer the question, so I will try once again.

Can the minister please explain to this House what the impact will be of further Connie Curran cuts on patient care occurring in St. Boniface Hospital, Health Sciences Centre and throughout Manitoba, because Manitobans want to know from this minister?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Deputy Speaker, at St. Boniface Hospital, at Health Sciences Centre, any impact will be minimal next to the impact there would be if we followed the advice of the honourable member.

Provincial Auditor

Advertising Guidelines

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, approximately six weeks ago, the Provincial Auditor, Ms. Bellringer, forwarded to the Minister of Finance a report which outlined the options in various other jurisdictions about putting into place a political advertising protocol. That was in response to correspondence back in November of last year which she forwarded to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) and a copy to myself, in which she indicated that it would be appropriate for the province to have guidelines which address this issue and saying that she had written the minister then, recommending that the government consider developing more explicit guidelines in this area in order to ensure the taxpayer's dollars are not used for purely political partisan purposes.

Madam Deputy Speaker, given that the Minister of Finance has now had that report from the Auditor for approximately six weeks, is he prepared to release that report, firstly, and, secondly, when can we expect those guidelines to be put in place?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the second opposition party is somewhat incorrect. It is not a report that I received from the Auditor at the end of April; it was some information on what is being done in some other jurisdictions, and it is a follow‑up to a letter that was sent by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer).

At that time, I asked the Provincial Auditor to compile whatever information she could in terms of the kinds of policies that are in place in other provincial governments, other levels of government, the federal government. She sent me a compendium of what little bits of information she could realistically find, and she did indicate to me that there are very few policies in place anywhere within Canada. She did forward that to me. That is now becoming one of the sources that I am using as we review this policy.

I do not want him to think that there is a report there from the Provincial Auditor on this issue. There is not. There is some information on other jurisdictions that we are utilizing as a resource as we formulate a policy on that issue.

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Mr. Edwards: Again for the same minister: Clearly, we have not seen what was sent over, so I accept the minister's clarification that it had some information. However, back in November of last year, the Auditor made clear that she recommended to this minister and to this government that they put in place a protocol, a set of guidelines to specifically govern what is political advertising and what is legitimate government advertising.

Madam Deputy Speaker, in view of the $20,000 Filmon tough‑guy campaign from last fall, which provoked this debate initially, the now $548,000 lotteries public relations campaign and things like the new Filmon team handy‑dandy pocket guide, which are coming out all the time‑‑I might add, a pocket guide with government numbers on it‑‑I would ask the Minister of Finance: When can we expect those guidelines to be put in place? Will they be in place by the time this session ends?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Deputy Speaker, again, I think the Leader of the Second Opposition is painting an incorrect picture. The issue was brought to our attention as a result of some correspondence from the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer).

One of the first things we did is we asked the Provincial Auditor to provide some background information, which she has just done now at the end of April. So to utilize the November date is not doing justice to the review of the issue. Part of it is compiling information that is available, which came to us approximately four to five weeks ago. It is forming part of the basis of our review, and, as well‑‑

Point of Order

Mr. Edwards: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order, I simply want to ask that you caution members to please control their comments. I am trying to listen to the Minister of Finance. He is not one who normally shouts, and I cannot hear him. I want to hear the answer, and the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Orchard) yaps constantly. I would appreciate the opportunity to listen and hear his colleague.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I would ask for the co‑operation of all honourable members.

* * *

Madam Deputy Speaker: The honourable Minister of Finance, to complete his response.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Deputy Speaker, I do want to indicate to the Leader of the second opposition party that the Auditor has never criticized our government for any actions we have taken. Even the letter that he is referring to that I do not have in front of me, if I recall it correctly, she says, we consider implementing guidelines to deal with this entire issue.

That is exactly what we are doing. She has provided some background information. I have staff working on the issue, and we will come forward with a position on the whole issue of appropriate guidelines and so on. So we are undertaking it. We take it very seriously.

I do want to indicate that she has not in any way criticized us for any previous actions even at the time of the issue that was raised by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer). She did not take a position and criticize us as a government on that initiative in terms of the work that was being done by our government, and I want to remind the Leader of the second opposition party of that fact.

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Mr. Edwards: Madam Deputy Speaker, the minister has done his best to lead us to believe that they are considering this carefully. What we have yet to hear is a commitment that guidelines are going to be put in place.

I want to put it very frankly, in a very straight fashion to the minister. Will we be seeing guidelines from this government on political advertising?‑‑given that the Auditor has specifically stated‑‑and he does not have the letter in front of him but I just want to read him the line‑‑guidelines should define a political ad, which should be paid for by political parties, as contrasted with ones which communicate issues of public interest, which should be paid for by tax dollars.

That is the recommendation of the Auditor.

Will we have guidelines, and if so, when?‑‑because clearly we are in a pre‑election period and the temptation which this government has been unable to resist in the past is there. Will those guidelines be in place so that we can be assured the government is going to hold itself to only using tax dollars to pay for things other than a Filmon team handy‑dandy pocket guide? In case the public confronts you and asks you what the government has done wrong, you have this at your disposal. It is pure partisan politics.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Deputy Speaker, I do want to indicate that we are reviewing the entire issue of guidelines. There is not much information available because, once again, as is the case on so many initiatives, we are ahead of the rest of Canada in terms of reviewing issues. This is another case in point. So we are assembling the information that is available in other jurisdictions.

This was an issue that was brought to my attention in part by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer). It came up at a committee recently, and again I undertook to share the correspondence and the information with the Leader of the second opposition party. That is the basis of today's questions, which is fine, but we are seriously reviewing the entire issue of guidelines.

I have to point out that not many jurisdictions across Canada‑‑the federal government does not have any guidelines. Many governments across this land and other parts of the world do not have appropriate guidelines, so there is not a wealth of information to start from.

That is why we are taking our time to review this issue, but I do, once again, when the Leader of the Second Opposition points to publications that we send out as information, remind him of his actions lately where he mailed out 80,000 pieces of a questionnaire, of a poll, for all intents and purposes, at taxpayers' expense, to prepare his kind of information, probably for the next provincial election. So he is the last one in this Chamber who should impute motives to any member of the Chamber. He should look at his actions, and if he is sincere about guidelines, he should lead by example and follow appropriate guidelines.

Victim Services Units

Funding

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice.

For the first time, victims of crime outside Winnipeg felt that they were finally cared about by this government's justice system and that they, too, had some rights when the province funded victim services units at RCMP detachments in Dauphin, The Pas, Thompson, Flin Flon, Portage la Prairie, Virden and Selkirk. Victims have received support information and preparation as witnesses. The minister refuses to fund this program after October 31, and these communities will no longer be entitled to these services.

Will the minister finally recognize that our victims of crime must be given a higher priority as a basic in the justice system, and will she reverse her decision to stop funding?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Deputy Speaker, the program the member is speaking about is a program which was entered into by contract between the municipalities groups and the RCMP, and the member well knows that there was an agreement at the end of this for the communities to assess the effectiveness and, if they determined that it was effective, for the communities then to undertake to find funding or to fund it from within their own communities. It was not a program in which government is now stopping funding. It was a project entered into by contract.

Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Deputy Speaker, that is called offloading of an essential service.

What message is the minister sending to victims, particularly the abused women of Flin Flon, who last year had their crisis shelter closed and this year, a double whammy, are going to face the closing of the victim services unit?

Mrs. Vodrey: Madam Deputy Speaker, again, the program is provided through the RCMP by agreement with the municipalities, but the member also should know, in the same discussion where this was raised, that this government is expanding its program for assistance to victims into the northern and into the rural areas and that we are expanding the Victims Assistance, Women's Advocacy and support for child witnesses into Brandon, The Pas and Thompson.

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Mr. Mackintosh: Given that each victim services unit has attracted up to 800 hours in volunteer time, the community is giving as best it can. At a minimum, will the minister undertake to meet with the mayors of these towns and villages and representatives from the rural municipalities on an urgent basis to ensure continued support for victim services in those communities, as the government does for Winnipeg, for example? The other communities deserve no less.

Mrs. Vodrey: Madam Deputy Speaker, as I answered to the member the other day when this question was raised, my department certainly is working with these communities on an ongoing basis. The member seems to only have a point of view that things are done on an ad hoc basis or an emergency basis, which is how he would do things.

He is quite wrong, and this government and my department meet with those communities on an ongoing basis. I am very puzzled by the member's sudden concern for victims. He raises concern for victims, but I went through his Empowering Community Action on Youth Crime. I did not see one stand on the Young Offenders Act which speaks for victims‑‑not one.

Environmental Issues

Volunteer Advisers

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Environment.

Since April 1993, this government has been in violation of The Environment Act, Section 8. Not only is the government hiding from the public by not having full environmental impact assessment, they are trying to silence those who are concerned about this destruction that this government is perpetrating on the environment.

Will the Minister of Environment tell the House why he has eliminated the 50 to 100 volunteer advisers, and in his meeting on June 7 with the former MEC members, will he also tell the House the number of council members he wants to place on his new council, his watered‑down political council that will replace the MEC?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Madam Deputy Speaker, it is ironic on a couple of counts that the member would raise the question in the manner that she did. My new political council that she refers to, I would be very interested if she is referring to Christine Singh and Bill Pruitt as potential members of that advisory board as being political confidants of mine.

Madam Deputy Speaker, all of us are struggling with limited availability of funds. It has always been my belief that those of us committed to public service and advice and support to government and how it should evolve its policies and its programs and deal with its responsibility towards the environment, that those people can provide the very strong background that they have and the information that they have to government without necessarily having a large per diem or without having a large staff to support them.

That is my philosophy, and I believe it serves the people of this province very well.

Ms. Cerilli: Firstly, the minister would be interested to know that both those members of the public that were just mentioned are on my advisory council, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please put her question now.

Ms. Cerilli: And they are the ones who have asked me to raise the question.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member for Radisson please put her subsequent question now.

Ms. Cerilli: Since the Manitoba Environmental Council has been a mediating force in Manitoba bringing together scientists, industry and local activists, and as the act says, to provide advice and recommendations on environmental matters, promote environmental awareness and provide assistance in the development and presentation of environmental education programs‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I would like to remind all members of the House that a preamble should not exceed one carefully drafted sentence. A supplementary question should not require any preamble.

Would the honourable member for Radisson please put her question now.

Ms. Cerilli: Given all of that, whom will the minister now have who is going to provide expert advice on a number of contentious projects going on in the province of Manitoba?

Mr. Cummings: Madam Deputy Speaker, I commend the member opposite for her choice of advisory people. They obviously are some of the same ones I believe could provide legitimate advice to this government. That is why I invited them to attend meetings. I thought they could discuss with me off the record and provide advice as to what direction they felt policy should go because of their legitimate and well‑known interest in the environment.

I never expected that I had to fight for their loyalties on the floor of this Chamber. Are we talking politics, or are we talking environmental advice?

Madam Deputy Speaker, contrary to the approach that members opposite, as a matter of fact, in both parties are inclined to take, I look to people for their background and their knowledge in environmental affairs. I seek that advice, and I will continue to do so on behalf of the province.

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am going to table the report to remind the minister of the kind of expertise and advice that he is missing out on on a number of projects, on the BFI landfill, on the WRAP changes, on the Norwood and Kenaston bridges.

Who is going to provide expert advice on these projects at public hearings, and why is the minister afraid of the former Manitoba Environment Council?

Mr. Cummings: Let the member not reflect on the former Manitoba Environment Council.

An Honourable Member: Positively.

Mr. Cummings: The member says she was reflecting positively. Well, let me reflect as well. The attendance at those meetings was dropping very, very low. I had as many people in my office the other night as attended the formerly structured Manitoba Environment Council on many occasions.

Why do the people of this province pay for expertise and highly qualified technical people within the Department of Environment if it is not to provide that information, along with the Department of Natural Resources and a multitude of other departments that are paid for at public expense in this government and every other government in the country in order to provide that expertise at public functions, if required? That is how this information will be provided at those hearings, and I will continue to seek out good environmental advice from the public at large through a personal advisory council.

Building Products

Workforce 2000

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Deputy Speaker, my friend the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen) posed a question taken as notice by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) yesterday with respect to Building Products & Concrete Supply. I provide this information.

The four training plans approved in '93 were in the human relations and technical‑technological categories involving instruction and general management skills, manufacturing costing and product estimations. Furthermore, the nature of the training involved would strongly suggest that participants would have been in the supervisory category.

Expelled Students

Education Department Supports

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Madam Deputy Speaker, with ever‑decreasing dollars available in education, we have seen a move by school divisions to expel children from school who present severe behavioural problems. This presents, of course, frustration for schoolteachers; school trustees are frustrated, and the parents. Worst of all, the children end up being casualties of these events and, in fact, do not receive an education and end up walking the streets, sometimes coming in conflict with the law.

For the Minister of Education, my question would be: When these children are expelled, what policy is in place to ensure that these children not only receive appropriate treatment but also receive an education?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not know whether the member is asking as a question of policy or whether indeed this has happened in a few settings or a specific setting within our province. If the member would like to provide greater detail as to where this has happened, I would be prepared to look into that matter.

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Ms. Gray: The answers are yes and yes. It has happened in specific situations, and I am also asking a policy question.

The policy question is: When these children are expelled from school, and it has happened in this province, what appropriate treatment resources are available for them, and also, what policy is there with this department to ensure that these children receive an education?

Mr. Manness: We are well aware today of the tens of millions of dollars of resources that are being directed towards the public school system in support of all our students, regardless of the requirements.

If the member is saying there is not enough money, would you spend more, or secondly, is it up to society as a whole or indeed those practitioners within education to make sure that individuals, regardless of whatever their behavioural make‑up would be or whatever their characteristics of learning are, are able to try and cope within the public school system? I mean, that is becoming a matter of issue and of greater discussion at this point in time.

Ms. Gray: Madam Deputy Speaker, my question for the minister is: What is the policy to ensure that these children, when they are expelled from school, receive an adequate education? What is the policy? It is the responsibility of the Department of Education.

Mr. Manness: Madam Deputy Speaker, that is exactly what it not necessarily is. It is not necessarily a responsibility of the Department of Education. There are other responsibilities, too, responsibilities of the parents, responsibilities of the community at large, responsibilities of everybody in society.

I dare say it has always been easy for members like my honourable friend to try and make it appear like it is always the government's responsibility, but what has become patently obvious is that indeed we are going to have to find a solution amongst all of our citizens in our community.

Port of Churchill

Government Support

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Deputy Speaker, the NDP has continually raised concerns over the Port of Churchill to the attention of this House. Yesterday, the port was attacked again, as Doug Campbell, the former vice‑president of CN and now the president of Canada Grains, presenting to the federal subcommittee studying the St. Lawrence Seaway, questioned Churchill's viability and called for its closing.

My question for the Premier (Mr. Filmon): Has he contacted this federal subcommittee and requested to make a presentation to them, as they are receiving totally false allegations about the viability of Churchill?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Deputy Speaker, I have responded to a similar question in the past in the House, and our commitment to Churchill remains strong and firm. As I have said earlier, we are very much displeased with the kind of attitude we are hearing from CN in terms of their commitment to the port.

The Akjuit project looks very, very promising in terms of additional economic activity at the port, and tourism potentially significantly increasing there. We have made representations to the CN task force that the Liberal government had, the federal Liberal government held, supporting very strongly the line and the Port of Churchill.

So I think the future of the Churchill port is very good. The local people, particularly the mayor, support it strongly and are out talking to people in a broad context to show the opportunities of Churchill as a future economic port for the province of Manitoba, western Canada and Canada as a whole.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Deputy Speaker, as the House sits today, only 15 people are working at the port as we speak, and no commitments of grain or ships have been received. Will the Premier (Mr. Filmon) call the federal minister and tell him that Manitoba needs the million tonnes of grain for Churchill that was promised to them by the Liberals last year?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Deputy Speaker, we are very disappointed that the Liberal government has not seen fit to follow up on their commitment. One of the commitments in the red book was that a million tonnes would be shipped through the Port of Churchill. We are waiting for them to follow up on a commitment. We would like them to follow up on any one commitment in that book.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Deputy Speaker, my final question is for the Minister of Agriculture.

Why is he willing to settle for the 400,000 tonnes of grain, when a million tonnes was promised by the Liberals to be shipped through the Port of Churchill, and when would‑‑[interjection] I am having a hard time hearing over the noise, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Will this minister continue to work for the million tonnes of grain that was previously promised, as opposed to settling for the 400,000 tonnes of grain?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to assure the honourable member and indeed all those interested in the continuing presence of the Port of Churchill that, by all means, I will do precisely what the honourable member asked me to do, work towards increased grain shipping to the maximum capacity.

The figure of 400,000 or 500,000 tonnes is a figure that has been expressed to me as approaching the kind of break‑even point for the operations at Churchill, and that should be the very minimum. It should not be taken out of context, that I made that comment to a early morning news report this morning when called at around seven o'clock this morning on the matter.

Expelled Students

Family Services Supports

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Madam Deputy Speaker, with a new question to the Minister of Family Services: Parents of children who are expelled from schools are quite prepared to have their share of the responsibility. They would like some supports and assistance though in terms of how to deal with these children.

My question for the Minister of Family Services is: What supports and resources are available through her department to assist these parents and children?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Certainly the Department of Family Services and myself as minister have been extremely concerned with providing supports, early intervention, family support. We have talked about a new vision for child welfare which is family support, family preservation and family responsibility.

Our department, through Child and Family Services, deals with protection issues for children. There is a high priority and a high focus on ensuring that children are protected in the system. If, in fact, there is an issue around protection as a result of a child being expelled from a school facility, we would be involved at that juncture. But we will continue to focus on early intervention, early child development and new ways of doing child welfare in the province of Manitoba.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, with one quick question.

Ms. Gray: My question for the Minister of Family Services is: What services and resources are available for those families before the case becomes a protection issue?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Indeed, I have indicated when child welfare and Child and Family Services does in fact intercede, it is as a result of a request from someone in the school division or someone in the community who raises the issue of child protection.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we continue and will continue to ensure that children are protected and safe in their environments, and we will continue to work with families to ensure that we put support systems in place and whenever necessary, ensure there is a family responsibility for children that they choose to bring into this world.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired.

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

50th Anniversary of D‑Day

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, I wonder if I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable First Minister have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, originally I had intended to acknowledge the 50th anniversary of D‑Day on Monday, that being the day of D‑Day, but since most of the weekend will be taken up with events commemorating D‑Day, I would rather rise today to have this opportunity to invite all members of the House to join with me in recognizing that 50th anniversary of D‑Day, the day when thousands of brave people from around the world risked their lives on a mission that would help bring an end to World War II and ultimately dramatically change the course of world development.

Over the weekend, Manitobans will join people from across Canada and around the world in recognizing the important historical significance of D‑Day and the very personal sacrifice made by thousands and thousands of soldiers and their families.

On behalf of the people of Manitoba, I am honoured to participate on Sunday in the official wreath‑laying ceremonies, the march pass by veterans on the south grounds of this Legislative Building and to host a reception for the Manitoba veterans and their spouses.

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I thank all of those who have worked hard across our province to ensure that the efforts of those who participated in that heroic campaign 50 years ago are observed with dignity and respect. Certainly, the sacrifice and bravery of June 6, 1944, yielded a legacy of freedom that is still with us today. As D‑Day recedes further into world history with each passing day, we share a responsibility to proudly carry forward the torch of remembrance in honour of those who stormed the shores of Normandy 50 years ago.

Today, I urge all Manitobans to join in a personal pledge to remember and respect those who served not just on D‑Day, but throughout the wars and battles fought to protect the freedom of Canadians. It is important that this pledge of remembrance begin here, for it is the Manitoba Legislature which stands as the symbol of democracy in our province, the democracy that Manitobans fought and died to protect. This most important building is set at the base of Memorial Boulevard, the avenue that serves as a permanent testament to the Manitobans and their families who paid the ultimate price to protect our right to democracy, freedom and peace, the very fundamentals that make up life in Manitoba and Canada.

I believe it is very appropriate that this be the setting where those elected to represent all Manitobans should meet and perform our elected duties, so inherent to the Canadian democratic process. These symbols stand as a timeless backdrop for the contribution made to life in Manitoba, Canada and the world 50 years ago. As the elected representatives of Manitobans in every community across our nation, it is appropriate that we should unite as one today in a tribute of respect for all those D‑Day veterans and their families, those veterans across Manitoba who have passed on since D‑Day and those who paid for our freedom with their lives 50 years ago.

Madam Deputy Speaker, with your permission I would ask that all members of this Legislative Assembly join together in a moment of silence today to celebrate and to recognize the 50th anniversary of D‑Day. Thank you.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Would all honourable members please rise to observe one‑minute silence in recognition of D‑Day.

A minute of silence was observed.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I would like leave for a nonpolitical statement.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the Leader of the official opposition have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Doer: Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to, on behalf of our party and the members of the Legislature, pass my words of commemoration for the 50th anniversary of the D‑Day operation on June 6, 1944.

I think all of us who were here yesterday were struck by the wonderful contributions that were made by people and the very reflective contributions made by all members from all parties on the D‑Day commemoration resolution that was discussed yesterday and passed by unanimous consent in this House: the comments made by the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) from old newspaper clippings dealing with the real description of the pain and suffering and chaos and crisis of war in terms of covering the tremendous contributions of the Canadian forces; the contributions made by the navy and the St. Boniface commemoration and the comments made by the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) yesterday; comments made by the member for Pembina (Mr. Orchard) about his family, his uncles, not all of whom returned from that war and from that invasion to liberate Europe; comments made by the member for Riel (Mr. Ducharme) yesterday; comments made by the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) about his children remembering the whole contributions of the Dieppe invasion which preceded the campaign in Europe.

Manitoba‑‑Winnipeg is truly a very important place in this commemoration. We are the only place in the country that had the two units participating in this campaign to liberate Europe from the totalitarian Fascist government: the Fort Garry Horse and the Winnipeg Rifles.

A couple of weeks ago I had the opportunity with the member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes) to meet with some aboriginal veterans who participated in that war. It reminded me of a coffee I had before with Tommy Prince, the deceased member from Manitoba who was the most decorated veteran in the whole war, the Second World War, in terms of his absolute bravery, to talk to many of these aboriginal seniors and veterans who participated in this war for freedom in Canada, a freedom that they still feel they are fighting for in our own beautiful, great, democratic country.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we want to commemorate the great events of the D‑Day invasion and the liberation of Europe. We note that Dieppe had tremendous contributions from Canadian forces, Monte Cassino which, of course, led to the liberation of Rome which is commemorated I believe this week in terms of its 50th anniversary, the tremendous contributions made at Hong Kong, the merchant marines and nurses, and as the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render) pointed out yesterday, the tremendous contributions made by people, men and women who were not directly participating in the war but were supporting it in our communities across Manitoba to make that effort a successful one.

As the Premier (Mr. Filmon) noted, we celebrate today the great work of volunteers and forces in the liberation of Europe and providing democracy to those countries. We commemorate the supreme sacrifice made by many people and rededicate ourselves to peace in the world through the efforts of Canadian forces and peace and democracy in our own country. Thank you very much.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the Leader of the second official opposition have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, it is an honour and a privilege to stand and join, on behalf of our party, the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in recognizing the importance of this anniversary this year. It is the 50th anniversary of the invasion which commenced on the beaches of Normandy back on June 6, 1944.

It is indeed appropriate that we have taken time today and take time now to honour the participation of all allied forces, in fact all forces generally involved in that Second World War, and in particular the Canadian forces that participated in what became the final campaign of World War II.

Fifty years ago, on June 6, 1944, the Second Canadian Armoured Brigade and the Third Canadian Infantry Division took part in what was called Operation Overlord, commonly referred to as D‑Day. The Canadians landed at Juno Beach on the Normandy Coast and after a day of fierce fighting had penetrated approximately nine kilometres inland from the beaches.

It is important to recognize that Canadian forces suffered 18,444 casualties during the Normandy fighting. One unit, the First Canadian Parachute Battalion lost over 300 officers and men alone.

Canadian veterans and armed forces personnel are now, as we know, in Normandy participating in this 50th anniversary ceremony of this great invasion. For a few days this June veterans returning to the familiar battlefields and including the youngest members of our armed forces are taking part in honouring those who remain in the Canadian cemeteries throughout Normandy and the rest of Europe.

I think, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am expressing the view of all members of this House when I say we have all learned, obviously, a valuable lesson from the battlefields of Normandy, and that is this, that the means of maintaining strong international relationships and peace is found through people who participated in the horrors of war and the people who sacrificed their lives to maintain the peace and democracy which we enjoy today.

To all the Canadian veterans and the families of those who died in our service, we offer our thanks and God's blessing for their valuable, indeed, immeasurable contribution of 50 years ago.

I want to conclude by simply indicating that as I have been in schools over the years, as all members have on Remembrance Day occasions and other occasions in which we reflect on past wars that our country has been involved in, the question often comes up why do we have to remember this. Why do we have to keep reliving the memories and the horrors of war which were such awful times for so many families? I think the answer is clear. When remembering and considering the price of peace as we do every day currently and will continue to do, it is important always to remember that the price of war is horrendous and, indeed, unacceptable. Thank you.

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Seniors Day

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Madam Deputy Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to invite the members of this House in celebrating Winnipeg Seniors Day today in the Legislature. This celebration is one of many activities being held in communities across the province during Seniors Month, including the seniors summer picnic being held in Killarney.

Seniors Month offers us a tremendous opportunity to honour seniors for the many accomplishments and the contributions they make to our society. Their hard work, their perseverance and their dedication has built and maintained a province and a country that is respected and considered a role model throughout the world. From our homes, to our environment, to the economy, the world we live in has been shaped by our seniors.

I especially reference the seniors, the D‑Day vets and their families and their wives who have made such a tremendous contribution to the freedoms of our country, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is therefore especially fitting to acknowledge seniors during this year, 1994, the International Year of the Family, as seniors play a key role in building and strengthening our families. As parents, as grandparents, their wisdom, experience and guidance is instrumental in ensuring that we not only look towards the future, but learn from our past.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to invite all members of this Chamber to join the Minister responsible for Seniors (Mr. Ducharme) in our celebration at 12:30 p.m. today. Thank you.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for Broadway have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to join the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) in paying tribute to Seniors Day.

As we know, many of our seniors also were veterans of the First World War and many of them have not returned. It has been stated, no lot can be greater than this that a man lay down his life for his friends. Many of the seniors have laid down their lives for the preservation of our freedom in this country, and we should remember that. We should accord the seniors of this province the very best opportunity that they may live their life independently in their old age. Thank you.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for St. Boniface have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Oui, Madame la Vice‑présidente, il me fait plaisir de me joindre aux deux autres personnes qui ont parlé pour les aînés de la province. Aujourd'hui, nous avons le plaisir de célébrer la journée des aînés. Alors c'est important pour tous les membres qui sont ici présents de participer avec ces gens. Les aînés nous ont certainement laissé une "legacy" où on peut apprécier ce qu'ils ont fait pour nous et ce qu'ils continuent de faire envers notre belle province et notre pays. De plus en plus, les gens vieillissent, vivent plus longtemps. Alors il est important pour nos gouvernements, les membres de la Législature de célébrer ces journées avec eux et pour les garder actifs. Puisque ces gens ont pris leur retraite, beaucoup d'eux font du bénévolat de célébrer ces journées avec eux et pour les garder actifs. Puisque ces gens ont pris leur retraite, beaucoup d'eux font du bénévolat, il est important de les voir de cette façon s'impliquer dans notre communauté. De plus en plus aussi, des jeunes vont les voir pour des informations sur leur passé qu'ils ont des fois à nous montrer.

[Translation]

Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure to join with the two other members who have talked about the seniors of the province.

Today we have the pleasure of commemorating Seniors Day, and it is important that all members of this Assembly participate with the seniors. Our seniors have certainly left us a legacy that permits us to appreciate what they have done for us and what they continue to do for our beautiful province and our country.

More and more, people are living longer, so it is important for our governments and the members of this Assembly to celebrate such days with them and to keep them active. Since our seniors are retired people, many participate in volunteer work, and it is important to see them involved in this way with the community. More and more young people seek them out to obtain the information about the past that they can provide.

[English]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is very important for all of us today to participate and congratulate the government for what they do for seniors on a day like today. Again, I believe it is on the 23rd or 28th in Killarney, and I look forward to be present again in rural areas. Also because of what the seniors do for us‑‑I think we can get a lot of good advice from the seniors in various situations.

You see them today being involved as volunteers and in seniors homes, for example. I have quite a few in St. Boniface, and it is always pleasant to visit with them. For example, the one right on Masson Street in St. Boniface where we have a daycare and they share information with the daycare. The young kids, some of them get to know them as grandparents rather than as a senior, some of them have both parents working, and they share the joy of being involved with the seniors at that level. I think it is very important.

Today, like I said, I pay tribute to the seniors for their advice and what they have done for this country. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Jason Fayre

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable Minister of Urban Affairs have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Urban Affairs): Madam Deputy Speaker, before the Question Period began today we were introduced to a special guest of mine in the Speaker's Gallery who has sat very patiently and attentively through Question Period, which is an accomplishment on some days but not nearly as great as the accomplishment this young man has made in his educational processes.

I first came across Jason Fayre when he was in primary school. I know Jason does not remember this because I did not stop to talk to him at the time, but I had been on a tour of one of our local schools during my tenure as a school trustee and the school principal was, as she was taking me through the school, pointing out people in the school of whom she was especially proud. She was saying here is so and so who has won the speaking competition and this student who is just entering the music festival.

There is Jason Fayre. He is in the regular program, and he has been blind since birth. I did a double take and took a look around at this little blonde‑haired boy striding down the corridor with his buddy by his side. I was quite taken because having gone to school myself in the late '40s and '50s, I never had the experience of having blind students as classmates because in the time that I went to school they did not go to regular school.

I have followed off and on Jason's progress with the school, from a distance, and am very pleased and proud to know that he has graduated. He will be taking a computer analyst course at Red River Community College this fall, and he is training young blind students in computer uses right now. He has gone all through the regular system, the first blind‑from‑birth student to graduate from the regular system in the school division that I represent, St. James‑Assiniboia. I would just like to recognize this accomplishment.

Jason graduated very quietly and, naturally, there was no big fuss, no big muss, and I think that is a really good thing, because it indicates that we are normalizing ourselves in terms of getting along with people, but I do think it is a significant trailblazing that he has done, and I would like to put it on the record, Madam Deputy Speaker, and extend congratulations to him for the example he is setting for other students to come in his wake. Thank you.

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ACCESS Program Graduates

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for River Heights have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (River Heights): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am delighted that the Minister for Urban Affairs has brought her young graduate here today so that we can pay tribute to someone who has, quite frankly, made a singular accomplishment and whose accomplishment will go on to benefit not only himself but others who follow in his wake, as she so aptly put.

I, too, was at a graduation ceremony last evening. In fact, it was a ceremony to honour graduates at the ACCESS program at the University of Manitoba. There were 31 graduates, and I am not going to name them all, because their names will find themselves on the list of graduates from the University of Manitoba.

I wanted to share with the House today some very interesting statistics. Of the 31 graduates, 24 of them were women. That represents over two‑thirds of the entire graduation class. Many of those were mothers, and their children aging from just a couple of months up to what looked to be about 12 or 13‑‑although one cannot always tell these days with the age of children‑‑were there with them to celebrate and to take pride in their parents' accomplishments. Of the 31 graduates, six were on the Dean's Honour List, which represents 20 percent of the graduating class, which again is a singular accomplishment, since 20 percent of normal graduates do not make the Dean's Honour List.

Of the degrees that these individuals received‑‑I was going to say young persons, but in fact many of them were not so young‑‑four of them graduated in science, all of whom have applied to medicine. Seven of them graduated in education, all of whom are hoping to find teaching positions in northern aboriginal communities. Three graduated in social work, all of them wanting to return to the North. Seven of them graduated with arts; two of them in nursing; two of them in physiotherapy; four of them in special premedical studies, and of those, two of them are going on to physiotherapy, two of them on to dentistry. One of them graduated in architecture, which I think might be a first, and one of them graduated in law.

I know that all members of this Assembly would join with me in expressing our sincere congratulations to these 31 graduates, who have gone beyond, I would suggest to you, the normal difficulties of achieving post‑secondary education, and they have done it, and they have brought honour to themselves and to their families and to their communities. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

House Business

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Madam Deputy Speaker, I wonder if you would seek unanimous consent of the House for Monday next to set aside the Estimates of the Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism in Room 255 in favour of the Estimates of the Department of Environment.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is there unanimous consent for Monday to set aside the Estimates in Room 255 of the Department of Industry and Trade to deal with the Estimates of the Department of Environment? [agreed]

Mr. Ernst: Madam Deputy Speaker, I would advise the House that the notice of the meeting of the Public Utilities and Natural Resources committee for June 9 to consider the report of the Manitoba Hydro‑Electric Board will have to be cancelled. We will have to replace that after some discussion as to a more appropriate time.

Would you call condolence motions.

Motions of Condolence

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey), that this House convey to the family of the late Peter Arnold Brown, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family.

Motion presented.

Mr. Filmon: As was the case earlier this session when we rose to speak to Motions of Condolence, we are once again addressing the untimely passing of someone who was a friend to many and known by most in this Legislature, Mr. Arnold Brown.

Arnold is someone for whom I have very strong personal feelings as a long‑time friend, and in this particular case I know that all of the members on this side certainly know his wife, Katie, and his children, Jennifer and Wade, very well, and we speak with great emotion about the loss of a very valued and respected friend.

Arnold was born April 27, 1927, at Winkler, to Isaac J. Brown and Katherine Hamm, both of whom are still living in Winkler. He attended school at Rosenbach Elementary and Winkler Collegiate. He married Katie, who is the daughter of Henry D. Janzen of Winkler and, as I said earlier, had two children, Jennifer and Wade.

Arnold was both a businessman and a farmer prior to entering public life. He served as a councillor for the Town of Winkler between 1967 and 1974. He was elected first to this Legislature in 1973, re‑elected in '77, '81 and '86. He also had a great deal of community service in addition to that as a publicly elected representative. He was on the executive of the Manitoba Sugar Beet Growers' Association. He was president of the Winkler‑Plum Coulee Beet Growers' Association. He was involved with the Bethel Hospital board, the Winkler Golf Club board, the Winkler Regional Library board, the Winkler Industrial Development board and the lower Red River Valley water commission.

In all respects, Arnold was a very spirited and generous person with his own personal resources. He also felt very passionately about Manitoba, and particularly his Mennonite people, his communities in southern Manitoba of which he was very, very proud, and took no hesitation in speaking out both publicly and within our caucus about the needs of the community, the needs of the people, the needs to create opportunities for business development, that strong spirit of entrepreneurship that many shared in his community and that he certainly was a part of.

He personally invested in a number of different business opportunities that he fostered and started in the Winkler area, and he was, in all things, a successful person, but he had so many dimensions to him as an individual. He was always smiling. I can never remember Arnold without a smile on his face, a great grin that always was on his face, even when he was angry. He would say something in the strongest possible language that Arnold would bring‑‑and it never involved swear words, I can tell you‑‑but no matter how strong, then he would break into a grin, almost in frustration that he had to get it off his chest.

Even in his latter stages, and Janice and I had the privilege, as did a number of my colleagues, visiting with him in hospital here in Winnipeg and in hospital in Winkler, and even within the past year we went out along with his beloved oncologist from Winnipeg, Dr. Lorne Brandes. Arnold volunteered to be one of the people to be put on an experimental drug treatment, an experimental drug treatment, I might say, that many are now on, and that has lengthened the quality of life and the life of many patients, cancer patients.

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We drove out with Lorne and his wife, Jill, to Winkler on a Sunday afternoon. Arnold was getting weak at the time, but wanted very much to take all of us on a tour of Winkler and to see particular facilities like Lode‑King trailer and Grandeur Housing, and Triple‑E, and some of the businesses that he was very familiar with. He was so proud of their growth and development and strengthening in Winkler.

We then had dinner at their place. That was as I always remembered Arnold. He always wanted me to come out to his area. When I was early a fellow colleague, when I was a member of cabinet, when I became Leader, he wanted me always to be there so that he could, with the innate pride that he had in the community, show me the community through his eyes, take me through the fields and look at the sugar beet crop, look at the harvest, all of those things. Arnold never failed to be the eternal optimist, the very strong, positive advocate on behalf of his community, his people and all of the good things that were happening in his area of Manitoba.

At the same time, Arnold had this wonderful musical talent. Those of us who attended his funeral know that he chose the music, that he chose the combination of choirs that were put together to sing at the service. He asked for the caucus choir to perform as we had in the past, various songs for the assembled gathering, and this was so much a part of Arnold.

The stories, of course, that were told by Sterling Lyon in his eulogy, and others, including myself, about how Arnold was the one who kept up the spirits in caucus, particularly in the days of opposition. In the days of the Schreyer government, in the days of the Pawley government, Arnold insisted on bringing in a piano or an organ into the Legislature, and at the end of each day of the session he would play the music.

That tradition is now, I might say, being replicated even while we are in government by the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Pallister). In case those of you have not heard, we have an organ in the caucus room, and we are now engaged in the musical therapy at the end of the day to ensure that we leave here with the same good spirits that we came with but somehow seem to disappear from time to time during the course of the day.

In any case, Arnold was absolutely wonderful. He could play musical instruments. He was a leader of a local band in his day, played at all the local affairs, and just loved music and passed along that love of music to generations of people in Winkler and surrounding area, and certainly to all of us who shared his warmth and shared his many talents.

Arnold was certainly a team builder and a team player. Above all things, I would say that that was Arnold's greatest strength. He was always one who was bringing people together. Arnold's office was the gathering place, the meeting place, as long as he was a member of the Legislature for all those who wanted to come and share a thought or an idea, engage in a conversation, get some off‑the‑record discussion on things that were bothering them or things that were making them happy. Arnold's was always the place we went.

Arnold's was the place where we went for dinner, in those many evenings when we used to sit three nights a week here, and did not have the time to go home for dinner. We would gather in Arnold's apartment. It was pot luck, but invariably Arnold supplied so many of the things.

In fact, when I speak of pot, members remember that very humorous story that was on the front page about a former member of this Legislature who was involved in a certain charge at the time, and in a wiretapped conversation Arnold was phoning somebody asking them to bring the pot to his apartment. This got taped and quoted on the front page of the Winnipeg Free Press. It was a pot to cook the corn in for that particular gathering, but it was really quite funny. He talked about bringing the pot and the coke over to his place, and it ended up being an incredibly embarrassing story. You can imagine how this went over in Winkler.

In any case, he was a father confessor to many of us. He was, in many ways, the soul and the heart of caucus in all of his days there, and it was interesting that when he retired from politics in 1988, he voluntarily took on the job of being the consultant or the advisor to our new candidates, those who had never run for office before. Arnold would get in his car or get on the phone and go over and chat with these people and let them know what public life was all about, the things they would have to get used to, the things they would have to learn, and give them advice on how to handle situations. Arnold did that throughout the 1988 election campaign with our new candidates throughout the province. He always wanted to be involved. He always wanted to be doing more than his share, and he certainly did.

In paying tribute to him at his funeral, I spoke of many happy personal times that we had together, driving in his car throughout rural Manitoba during my days seeking the Leadership of our party, being away on vacation together at Christmas of 1985 and standing in the very warm waters of a particular tropical location on New Year's Eve and seeing in the New Year standing in the warm waters of the Pacific Ocean with our pants rolled up to our knees and just grinning at each other and thanking the Lord for our blessings. Arnold in all respects is one of the most wonderful people that I have ever had the privilege to serve with and to be with, and I certainly am going to miss him greatly, as is my family and, I know, all who knew him. I certainly want Katie and Jennifer and Wade to know how much we love and respect Arnold and how much he contributed.

I have spoken about his personal qualities, but his convictions, his commitment as a representative of the people resulted in many good things happening as a result of Arnold's efforts in this Legislature in a variety of roles over many years, some 15 years of service in this Legislature. We certainly want to pass along our sincere condolences to the family of Arnold Brown for a life of productive service to his people, to his community and indeed to all Manitoba.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to join the Premier in the condolence motion before the Chamber this morning and pay tribute to the life and contributions of Arnold Brown. Fifteen years, and I believe it is five elections, is a worthy record as a parliamentarian in this Manitoba democracy. Certainly Arnold Brown proved that he had the support and respect of his constituents, who re‑elected him with quite a major plurality every election that he contested for the seat of Rhineland.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I was aware that Arnold Brown was very involved in his community, but I was not aware of all the things he was involved in until I read some of the material about his life and his contributions. The list that the Premier has articulated in this Chamber shows us a person who did not just come here as an elected representative but also worked in his community in health care, in economic challenges for the area, in recreational activity, tremendous contributions to his community, the agricultural contributions of the organizations he belonged to. This is a person and a life that was well rounded in terms of participating in his full community and supporting his full community in this Chamber and back with the grassroots of his constituents.

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I think it is worthy to note that the Winkler‑Morden area is one of the great economic successes and social successes of our province. It is one of the areas that is growing in population and has a very low unemployment rate, and I think that we should pay tribute to the work of all community leaders in that area including Arnold Brown, who worked very, very hard for his constituents.

I was elected in 1986, and I thought Arnold Brown was a very quiet individual, you know, just in terms of the Chamber. It was not till the end of a session‑‑you get to know people I think more at the end of a session sometimes than you do during the session‑‑but it was not until an end of a session, I think it was either the '87 session or the '88 session, I think it was '87, I think it was '87. I think the end of the session of '88 was a little different than usual with the Meech Lake activities, so I believe it was the evening of the '87 session.

As we do, we go from caucus to caucus and celebrate the end, celebrate our alleged triumphs, et cetera. All parties, of course, do that. All individuals start embellishing the session immediately after it is over, but I was quite surprised actually to go down to the Conservative caucus room and see this huge piano there and a number of Conservatives and others, of course, joining them in song.

Arnold was leading the way and it was quite a different role than I had anticipated for Arnold, who was, as I say, very quiet. I thought it was rather ironic. He was singing "Rule, Britannia!" "Rule, Britannia!" I think was the first song I heard him sing. Now, he of course moved on to other songs. I did not think that that would be No. 1 for Rhineland, to sing "Rule, Britannia!"

Of course, the Tories loved the song and it was quite robust, I guess you would describe it. It is a wonderful song. I spent a few hours singing there with various songs. I did not know all the words, but you kind of join in and you can be robust at the refrain, of course. I had a chance to talk to Arnold Brown that evening, and I was expressing my personal surprise at this role. He began to talk quite a bit about his constituency, the people he represented and about his love of music, which of course when you would sit here in the day‑to‑day to and fro, he was not the first one in with the kind of interventions that take place in this Chamber, but certainly a very, very dedicated and honest individual.

I know that by his reputation. I did not know him as well as members opposite, and I quite enjoyed that other side of Arnold Brown. It quite surprised me. I really enjoyed talking to him and listening to him. With a person like Arnold you listened, because he has seen a lot of things and done a lot of things in the 15 years. If you are a rookie, as I was in '87, you are best advised to listen to people, because there is a lot of advice around this Chamber from all different parties, especially from people who have been here awhile and have seen rookies come and go. You are better off listening to people then talking.

I want to pass on to Arnold's family our tribute to his life, to his contributions to this democratic assembly, pass on our tremendous respect for the contributions he made to his constituents and his tremendous contributions to community life.

We talk about community. We talk about family. We talk about having a life, as we all aspire to have a balanced life between our occupation and our family and our community. If there is any symbol of that for us, it was the balanced life that Arnold Brown brought to this Legislature. I would want his family to know that we respected him a great deal, and we join the Premier and other members today in paying tribute and offering condolences to his family.

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (River Heights): Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to join with the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in paying tribute to Peter Arnold Brown. I am speaking on behalf of the caucus because I was the only one of the caucus, of course, to have served in this Legislature with Arnold Brown.

It is very easy, Madam Deputy Speaker, to call a member of this chamber a gentleman, but Arnold Brown was truly a gentle man. I think it was that that I recognized so early when I first sat here with him in that first session, the only session we shared together between March 1986 and April 1988.

He was kind, he was warm and generous of himself and of those things which he had, and I did indeed know of his love of music, not just because he used to join in with the singing of "God Save the Queen" on opening days with gay aplomb, but he always went to Rainbow Stage. I would frequently see him at Rainbow Stage, and he often did not just go the one time we were invited. He would occasionally go back again to hear the performance if he was in town during the night that Rainbow Stage was still in its performance.

The Premier made remarks about his love for Winkler and the community, and I wanted the House to know that his love of that community was not just extended to those who shared his political persuasion. Whenever I would go to Winkler, he would make sure I also knew exactly what was happening in that town of his, because it was his community. He felt very passionately about this community and the strength of the community and the people. So I would be told about improvements to the golf course. I would be told about improvements to the local business community to make sure that I was up to date on all of the information that Arnold could possibly share with us.

I think we were all aware that Arnold had cancer and was failing. He would sometimes come and sit in the chamber, very proud to be sitting, I would suggest to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, on the right side of the Speaker, because in his latter years he had sat on the left side of the Speaker, but he was very proud to go and sit on the right side of the Speaker, because that was his team that was now governing the province of Manitoba and he was proud of every one of them.

You could see that he was failing and he was becoming more thin, despite the best of treatment and his participation of course in some experimental therapy. But there was no complaint. He accepted what he had received with dignity and with the gentle spirit that was so much an integral part of him.

So I pay tribute to his wife, Katie, and his children, Jennifer and Wade, and I tell them that not only will he be missed by all who knew him but that his legacy is long, because whenever someone passes this world, it can be said of them that they truly were kindly people.

There lies a kindly one, I think, is an epitaph that suits Arnold Brown extremely well.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Energy and Mines): Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to join with the Premier and others in the House who have supported and expressed their feelings on this condolence motion to a good friend, Arnie Brown. Arnie Brown, in being elected in 1973, I think it is fair to say bucked a fairly popular trend, at least that some of the pundits said was going to happen. The governing party of the day was going to make inroads into rural Manitoba and Rhineland was one of those constituencies because it was served by an independent.

Here was this new fellow who was coming up to the election day, and Arnold Brown won quite handily and joined the opposition caucus in 1973. He was able to achieve that win in 1973 because of the kind of involvement in the community of Winkler and Rhineland, as a constituency, through the church, through farm organizations, through business, through all of the endeavours that make those communities so vibrant today.

Arnold really was quite a remarkable individual. His expertise in farming was quite well known. Arnold was a very good advocate for the farm community as an MLA, because he was such a good farmer. He was into special crops, sugar beets being really a very, very significant love of his agricultural investment and his agricultural career, but he also took and led a number of entrepreneurial endeavours in the Winkler and Rhineland constituency that had been a hallmark of those communities in terms of industrial diversification to provide employment and investment in the area.

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His involvement in Grandeur Housing was very significant. He was part of that company. That company is probably one of the more renowned manufacturers of mobile homes. With their environmental standards that they have set in their construction, those homes are the homes of choice in most northern or remote locations, and I think that demonstrates the kind of expertise that Arnold was able to put towards business investment.

As has been mentioned by others, Arnold's other love, which many did not necessarily know unless you knew him personally, was the music. He had a music shop in Winkler for a number of years. I remember at the funeral services for Arnold, Ben Kehler, who is a local musician of some renown who has made a number of tapes, sort of described how he had gotten into the music business.

In the evening, Arnold would be down at his music store and the door would be open in the summer evening, and you could hear the sound of either an organ or a piano wafting out of the store and Ben Kehler would come along, and pretty soon there got to be a little band in there every evening. It was impromptu and it led Ben to be a very accomplished guitarist.

Arnold really was a steadying spark plug in our caucus because, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has indicated, he was the fellow you went to for advice. I know that personally, because I had the privilege in the latest constituency boundary reorganization to have the honour to represent Winkler and some of the villages that Arnold Brown represented for those many years. Arnold always provided me good advice when I had the direct responsibility for Winkler. I have to say that in the years that I was here and Arnie and I sat together in caucus, he would always be very, very open and very, very desirous of all of us understanding some of the agendas for change in the constituency and how we could help facilitate them, support them because they were the right things to do, and they always were the right things to do.

In his struggle with cancer, Arnie really showed quite a remarkable side, because you do not find a cure for liver cancer but seldom, and I think Arnold recognized that and he accepted that with a very stoic approach. I can always remember some of the opportunities where Janie and I would drop in to visit Arnie and Katie at home. Arnie would have got a particularly good report, and if you walked in the house, you would knock on the door and chances are they could not hear the knock or the doorbell ring because Arnie was on his organ in the living room celebrating. He had the thing turned up full volume, and you would break away. Arnold enjoyed the good news so remarkably. He was just buoyed up and it was as if nothing was the matter. Yet, when bad news would come, he would very stoically accept it.

I think Arnold Brown, in terms of his service to the community, will be very well remembered and very well thought of. Katie and Jennifer and Wade can take heart in the memory that so many people considered Arnold Brown a good friend, whether it be through association during his elected life or the many community services and agricultural endeavours that Arnold took on throughout the province. Because Arnold Brown was not just known in Winkler and Rhineland constituency, he has friends throughout the length and breadth of this province, from urban to rural, from north to south, and he gained that respect honestly.

Arnie, always in discussions regardless of what the issue you were having a discussion with him on, if you were finished that issue chances are Arnold would swing into discussion about what Jennifer and Wade were doing and what was happening at school or in their sports or music or band activities. Arnold was exceedingly proud of the accomplishments of both Jennifer and Wade. They were really the ultimate pride in his life, and he and Katie very much shared together their accomplishments. The pride that Arnie expressed in any of the discussions of Jennifer and Wade was just very evident by his enthusiasm towards their accomplishments and career.

I want to add my sincere condolences on behalf of Janie and myself to Katie and to Jennifer and Wade on their very unfortunate and untimely loss.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Deputy Speaker, I too want to add my comments to those that have been made. I had the opportunity to sit with Arnold Brown from 1981 to 1988, and I must say, all the comments that have been made in terms of his character I think are absolutely true. I mean, he was truly a nice guy, and as someone who was newly elected from another party, there were some pretty difficult times in this Legislature, some pretty controversial times. I must say that he was one individual who crossed those party lines. He was fiercely loyal to his political beliefs and his political party, but he was always civil in any discussions I had with him and went out of his way to welcome me to this Legislature.

It is interesting, as I sit here, because I too remember those session‑end gatherings. I will always remember Arnold Brown playing on the piano, Arlene Billinkoff singing along, usually with six or seven Tories, and I must admit there was always a bit of an element of transition at the end of a session when we sort of had been through all the political battles.

Sometimes when we would visit other caucuses, you could just see some looks on people's faces before the guard would come down and you would realize that we are out of the Chamber and we were all really here for the same purpose. We are all human beings, and Arnold Brown was probably the best person to bring out that spirit because how could you not soften up, how could you not let your guard down, when you had someone who had such joy in life and really brought so much of that spirit to everyone he met.

It is interesting, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I have since come to know Arnold's brother, Bert Brown, who lives in Thompson. In fact, I attended a Cree course that Bert teaches. Bert ended up marrying a woman from York Factory and led a very different life from Arnold in terms of living in York Factory and later in Thompson, married a woman from the York Factory Band, is absolutely fluent in Cree. You know, though, there must be something about that family because as soon as I met Bert Brown, I felt that I had met Arnold. It was the same sort of spirit, the same kind of character, the same individual characteristics. It must be an incredible family, and I only wish in a way that I did know the family, as I know many of the members opposite do, because it is just a tremendous type of spirit.

You know, much has been said about Arnold's contribution to the public life of this province, and certainly in this Legislature, he was a strong, strong voice for his area. He was the kind of MLA that I always respect. I always believe that MLAs who work for their constituents and put the interests of the constituents first, as Arnold did, deserve to be recognized for that.

There will be much said, I know, in his community and communities about his contribution in that area, but after all is said and done, I think the spirit in which we are speaking today probably speaks the strongest to the person Arnold Brown was. I do not think it would be really all that bad if the epitaph from this Legislature was that he was a hell of a nice guy because I believe in public service. We could learn a lot from the Arnold Browns. I certainly learned a lot just from seeing him, and much has been said, too, about his courage in the final years.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I must admit, the other day when I was walking by the Conservative caucus and I heard some music coming, I almost felt that the spirit of Arnold Brown was in the Legislature. It just had that same sense, and I understand that we have perhaps a new heir to Arnold's tradition in this House. I am looking forward to the end of this session because, if we can come even remotely close to recreating the spirit of Arnold on that piano and the boisterous voices of MLAs and media and whoever else will be there, I think it will go a long way to making sure that the type of individual Arnold Brown was and the kind of spirit he brought to this Legislature will never be forgotten.

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Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Madam Deputy Speaker, I stand in this House today in recognition of the many years of service that Arnold Brown provided, not only to this province, but to his community and certainly to his family and, yes, on a much broader basis, to his country.

I had the privilege of knowing Arnold Brown before he got involved in politics, before he became the president of the Provencher Federal Progressive Conservative Party and before he became involved in some of the farm organizational politics in his community and in the province.

Arnold and his family were always deeply involved in the community, and it did not surprise many of us that Arnold Brown wanted to choose a career in public life through the involvement of town council, through the involvement of the chamber of commerce, through the involvement of farm organizations, be they the bean growers, be they the sugar beet growers, be they any of the other specialty commodity groups that he loved to promote and foster on his own farm.

I will never forget the time that Arnie called me one day, and he said, Jack, I am getting involved in a new crop, and that was just when beans were being brought into this province to be raised commercially. He had a little five‑acre plot on his farm, and he said, Jack, I think we can raise edible beans commercially and expand or diversify opportunities in this community. He said, not only have we got the soil to do it, but we have the climate, and I believe we have the people who can foster this. He said, it fits in well with the row cropping practices of this area and fits in well as an extended crop of the sugar beet production that Arnie was involved in virtually all his life.

So he was not only a promoter, he was not only a legislator, he was, in fact, a developer. That was evident in his desire to see his community grow and expand and diversify. Not only did he become part of the promotion of the community, he actually became a partner in conjunction with other businessmen in this town of Winkler and surrounding area to see that promotion and expansion and industrialization that the town of Winkler is so well known for. It took people like Arnie Brown to become involved in the direction and the promotion through organizations such as the Provencher or the Lisgar Progressive Conservative Party, and Arnold Brown certainly used his influence at that forum many times federally and nationally to promote not only the area but to promote true diversification and industrialization of southern Manitoba. So Arnold Brown will go down in history having been and demonstrated his leadership ability to foster that.

Arnie Brown was also a person that was deeply concerned about the survival of the sugar beet industry during those years when the sugar beet industry found it hard, because of market conditions in the world or because of policies initiated by other countries of the world for the sugar beet industry, to survive. He certainly played a major leadership role in trying to convince Ottawa to ensure that the industry could in fact survive over a long period of time. Having accompanied Arnie and some of his colleagues in the sugar beet association to Ottawa on numerous occasions, I know how influential he was in demonstrating to Ottawa the need for not only maintaining the industry but to try and enhance it in some small way.

Of course, Arnie's musical prowess was known not only in Winkler but in many of the other communities that he served during his time as member in this Legislature. I will never forget walking into a small forum, and Arnie was sitting there not only playing a piano, but he had the knack of playing both an organ and a piano at the same time. The wonderful, marvelous music that this man could make on two instruments simultaneously and sing at the same time was a talent that few of us have or will ever have, or few of us have seen demonstrated on stage as Arnie could do it. Not only did he entertain at the Sunflower Festival in Altona, but he entertained at many, many other community functions across southern Manitoba and he did it with a flair and he did it with a sense of pride. That, of course, was always fostered by his mother and his father and their family.

The one thing that I think many of us will remember Arnie for is his sense of family. We all know that Arnie and Katie were not blessed with a family in the sense that many of us are. Arnie and Katie came by a family in a different way, through an accident. Arnie and Katie took it upon themselves to raise two young people, to give guidance and demonstrate and show leadership to the point where they have raised a couple of very responsible young individuals, and they, both of them, will do not only their family but their communities proud.

It was that kind of dedication by both Katie and Arnold that the community saw and admired and appreciated. We will never forget in the constituency of Emerson now, previously of Rhineland, the true service that Arnold Brown served and provided us with.

I remember when we sat as board members of CSP Foods, and the town of Altona at that time was only served by a gravel road and a bridge that could not carry the capacity that was required for the products to be transported out of the CSP Foods plant into the markets of the world. Arnie was asked to come to a meeting, and Arnie promised that he would not only build a bridge but see to it that the province would build a bridge that would have the capacity to carry the big tanker trucks, but also that he would work hard towards making sure that there was, in fact, a surface road for that industry in those times to help flourish. He did that.

It did not take him very long to convince the Department of Highways to build a new bridge and also to build a new highway to service that community and to service that industry. That, of course, is something that a community such as Altona and many other communities in the area will remember Arnie for and the dedication and service that he provided to his constituency.

We stand today in this House, and I stand with a great deal of pride in having been the member after Arnold Brown to serve that community and to walk in his footsteps.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): I wanted to say a few words as well as we celebrate the life of Arnie Brown and, in particular, his contributions to the public of Manitoba. When I was the Deputy Clerk of this Chamber, Arnie and I struck up quite a friendship on a parliamentary conference expedition to the province of Newfoundland.

Of course, Newfoundland is famous for its music and for its good times, its revelry. I do not know if Newfoundland is still talking about that visit, but it was one where great friendships were struck up. Arnie and I shared a common interest. We both enjoy music, love music, and we both play the piano and the organ. I remember so many times Arnie saying, well, why do not you come down to the caucus room after the session today and sitting today and let us really whoop her up? I was, of course, very reluctant to do that. You can imagine the imagery of the Deputy Clerk, arms around the Tory, singing Tie a Yellow Ribbon or something; of course, the problem now is, I will never be invited.

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It is funny, the camaraderie that Arnie offered to so many in this House, including myself. He would often wave me over from the table, and he would say, always to start with, "I'se the B'y" because of our Newfoundland experiences. It was over the course of four years, he would always say "I'se the B'y" and start his comments with me. Sometimes I would be sitting in the chair and getting a bit sleepy, and a little note would come down and it would say "I'se the B'y" on it. We shared moments like that.

I met Arnie several times after I had left my employment here, and we would talk about how our private lives were going and what our interests were. I of course recall him being quite concerned that I had fallen off the wagon of nonpartisanship, but we shared a common understanding of what had to be done.

Arnie was a good person. He was a good soul. He was friendly and supportive. I think the word "warm" that was used earlier is very descriptive of Arnie and for me he was a buddy. Certainly, for those who were close friends of Arnie, they are indeed fortunate.

So I want to put on the record my condolences and I want to extend that to Katie and the family.

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am also very pleased and honoured to be able to put some comments on the record on behalf of my good friend, Arnie Brown.

When we walk through life, whether it is in the Chamber or whether it is in the outside world, we impact people, some positively, some negatively, some more than others, some less, all of us.

I just want to talk briefly about the impact that Arnie Brown made on my life. I got to know Arnie and Katie basically during the 1977 election and came to this building at the time, awed, like most members are when you come into this building, not realizing what to expect.

Who took under his wings Mary and myself, into his office? Arnie Brown. He sort of developed the scenario, expectation of what life was basically all about in this House. We really appreciated it at that time.

I got to know Arnie better all the time. We have all reminisced a little bit about the impact he has made in our lives, and I guess I do not want to repeat many of the things, but the Leader of the Opposition made reference to the singsongs we had. At that time we sat three nights a week. We would sometimes sit until two and three at night when we were in opposition, and Arnie was sort of the PR person. He kept everybody going. We had bitter debates in the House sometimes.

We would go back after that, we would relax and sing and enjoy ourselves a little bit and some of the government members would want to come in, and some of us, we were a little bitter yet, we would say, no, we do not want them. This is our party. Let them sweat about it a little bit, but Arnie always had that attitude, he says, oh, what the heck, we are all friends. Come on, let them in.

We picked and chose a little bit from time to time. At that time, when the Leader of the Opposition was not there, we still had thought that we would not aspire to the heights that he did.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the impact that he made on all members in this House has been referred to. I was thinking today in the morning when I was driving in, if I would write the epilogue or eulogy for Arnie, what would I say? He loved his family. References were made to how he loved his family. He loved life, which was illustrated in his fight against cancer. He loved music. That has been illustrated.

He was compassionate, he was generous, and these are all the things that basically illustrated how Arnie went through life. We noted that he was a good farmer, a good businessman.

The difficult decision that he ultimately made was that he was not going to run again, he was going to retire. He was going to retire and Katie was going to retire from teaching with the dreams they had of all the things they wanted to do in retirement. Unfortunately, by the time that Katie retired, he already had his illness and never really accomplished all the things that he would have wanted to do. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to look at that as a lesson maybe.

I can recall things, the affiliation that I had with Arnie and Katie. We went on houseboats together because they were manufacturing these houseboats. Some of my colleagues, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) as well as Mr. Downey and his wife, were out in the houseboats together for two, three days, a great experience with them. You really get to know people and get to be good friends.

So basically, Madam Deputy Speaker, I just want to say to Katie and Jennifer and Wade that to have known Arnie is a blessing, and all of us will remember him for the rest of the time of our lives.

We ask on behalf of Katie, Jennifer and Wade, happy memories and God's blessing.

Thank you.

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am extremely pleased to join with the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and members of the Legislature in the condolence motion to the Brown family and particularly to Katie and Wade and Jennifer.

If I had one opening comment to make that would I think express what Arnie Brown really was, he was a true person who exemplified what the word "honourable" means as it relates to members of the Legislature. He truly was an honourable man.

I think, Madam Deputy Speaker, that each and every one of us, as well as the constituency, the country and the province, for having had Arnold Brown as a member of our society, we are all just a little bit better off for that. As a colleague, as a new minister in our government in 1977, he had been here as a member, his advice was extremely sound and valued.

I can tell you of one particular situation in which, as a new minister, one can find themselves a little bit stressed at a particular time. The best advice that he gave me was to step back a couple of paces and take a broader view of the issue and the situation in which we were embroiled at that particular time. I have to say, that was one of the best pieces of advice that I received from my friend and colleague Arnold Brown.

One of the other extremely strong points about Arnold was his willingness and his ability to consult with people. He was the critic for health care in opposition, and he spent endless hours and days meeting with people in the health care field, getting to understand it, getting to feel that he had a real handle on his responsibility in his job, and he did not come to the Legislative Assembly unprepared. Every speech was prepared, well thought out and well consulted with the general public.

As has been expressed, Madam Deputy Speaker, he as well was a tremendous farm leader. Every association or organization that he participated in, he did so with enthusiasm and in a real leadership capacity.

As well, it would be not fair to mention the fact that he did play an important role in the racing and chowder club. Many former members and members will appreciate the importance of that club to the camaraderie which flowed from this place.

From those kinds of events to the corn feeds that Arnie would be so proud of when the sweet corn was ready out of the Pembina Valley or to the preparation of many huge bowls of black beans, which the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) referred to his growing of them, but he could certainly do a fine job of cooking them as well along with the Winkler summer sausage and the music and all the activity and the camaraderie that went with it.

Even in the time, Madam Deputy Speaker, when he had received the word that he had been diagnosed with cancer, he kept his spirit up, he kept his faith there, that there would be a time when he would get better and he would participate fully. He never did give up, and that is the kind of courage that the individual showed.

One particular time that I recall was when we celebrated the 25th anniversary of the member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns). I had the privilege of co‑chairing or working the evening, and Mr. Arnold Brown was one individual who did not in any way, as tough as he felt, let down that group of people that night. He was there with his full spirit of cheerfulness and wanting to have a great time and make sure everybody else did. But even at that time‑‑I did not know it; many of us did not know it‑‑he was certainly under stress and under some suffering from the dreaded cancer.

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I do not recall one time that I had ever heard him complain, and, I can say this genuinely, not one time in my life in the time that I knew Arnie Brown did he say anything bad about an individual, anyone, whether they were opposition, anyone in society. He never did have a bad word to say about a person. He treated everyone as a real genuine individual and, in fact, tried to make sure that their way was just a little bit easier, regardless of who they were.

So I say, Madam Deputy Speaker, on behalf of my family, my wife Linda and son Ryan, the constituency of Arthur‑Virden, the people whom I represent, I say, thank you for the opportunity to have been a colleague of Arnold Brown, to have known him. I feel that I have gained by it, and I know this province and this country has. I say to Katie, Jennifer and Wade, he was extremely proud of you; you should be extremely proud of him; and we should all celebrate the life of Arnold Brown.

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Deputy Speaker, it is my privilege to rise at this time and to associate myself with the remarks and the tributes that have been laid before the Chamber today in respect of Arnold Brown.

I can remember the first meeting of Arnold. Again, I was a young Conservative at the time, and he was pointed out to me as one of our strong, at that time, younger leaders himself from southern Manitoba‑‑it would be again the early '70s‑‑very involved in a lot of the activities that occurred in that part of the world at that time. Then, of course, I really did not have much to do with Arnold basically until again the later '70s and then on a full‑time basis in the '80s.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the commentary that has been presented today is all so accurate, and it has been very good for me, because there were some question marks in my mind. I mean, I wondered, why did we always meet in Arnold's office? It was just the natural thing to do, but why? Why? It had been bothering me for a long period of time. Of course, the remarks provided by many of my colleagues, particularly, now make it abundantly clear, because here was a man who really could not be critical of anybody, as my colleague has said, and really represented, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) said, the father figure, the person to whom you could turn and express your views, but not only that, bare your soul, and who would be there in a noncritical fashion to listen. Of course, that was one of the reasons. This quiet‑‑not always quiet‑‑but unassuming personality touched everyone.

I would like to say a little bit about his success. He was a successful person in all dimensions with much aplomb and, of course, with wonderful style. In many respects, he embodied the spirit of successful achievement, saying little, but taking that success not only his own but indeed the success of the region, more importantly the success of the region, with quiet pride.

He personified the we‑can‑do‑it attitude, and, of course, he saw in his lifetime a community succeed on its own, for the most part, with very little government support, and took incredible pride in that. Of course, it was the hallmark that he left with many of us, who brought a stronger philosophical basis, yet maybe did not know why, to our responsibilities.

As I said earlier, as a new member in opposition, as part of that '81 loss, wondering why some of my colleagues were maybe more despondent than I was‑‑I understand now why maybe they were more despondent. Through those periods of time we needed a strong spiritual leader in the context of camaraderie and the context, of course, of a political party. We had many leaders, but I guess the main leader through all of that in building that spirit would have Arnold Brown, particularly, as I said, so important in all societies, but very important in a small political society of a few, of a handful of people.

So it was always interesting to be in attendance at his office, as I have said earlier, when you had an issue to discuss, and I sat across from his office, and watching this person quietly lean back in his chair, stoke his pipe one more time and listen.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we all have our own styles. Arnold always stated his view in caucus, made known the views of his community and his district, did not overkill a statement, but said it directly and said it once. He is one of the great characters of our past, and, indeed, we sort of pride ourselves in of having many within our midst, but certainly he was one who was very special in all respects. He loved life, as has been attested to by so many comments earlier on. If Arnie had lived 100 years, I do not think it would be enough. His love of life was so great. I mean, he just wanted that extra day, that extra week forever. It was his nature, because of course he lived it to the fullest and took everything from it, but beyond that, gave that much and more to everyone.

So, Madam Deputy Speaker, in closing, I just want to indicate that we are all richer because of his involvement and our association with him, and on behalf of Cheryl and indeed the constituents of neighbouring Morris, I would like to pay tribute to his memory and particularly offer my condolences to Katie, Jennifer and Wade. Thank you very much.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

* (1220)

Madam Deputy Speaker: Would all honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion?

(A moment of silence was observed)

Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, I believe there is a will to call it 12:30.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): I believe there is will, but I would just like to ask leave to withdraw two petitions from the Order Paper, one standing in the name of the member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman) and one in the name of the member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen).

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is there leave to have the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) withdraw two petitions? Leave? [agreed]

Is it the will of the House to call it 12:30? [agreed] The hour being 12:30, this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. on Monday.