LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Thursday, April 14, 1994
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING PETITIONS
Curran Contract Cancellation and
Pharmacare and Home Care Reinstatement
Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):
Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Sam Voisey, Sheila Beyko,
Charles Zimmerman and others requesting the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba to
urge the Premier (Mr. Filmon) to personally step in and order the cancellation
of the Connie Curran contract and consider cancelling the recent cuts to the
Pharmacare and Home Care programs.
Curran Contract Cancellation and
Pharmacare and Home Care Reinstatement
Mr. Speaker:
I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Ms.
Cerilli). It complies with the
privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the
petition read? [agreed]
Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):
The petition of the undersigned citizens of the
WHEREAS
the Manitoba government has repeatedly broken promises to support the
Pharmacare program and has in fact cut benefits and increased deductibles far
above the inflation rate; and
WHEREAS
the Pharmacare program was brought in by the NDP as a preventative program
which keeps people out of costly hospital beds and institutions; and
WHEREAS
rather than cutting benefits and increasing deductibles the provincial government
should be demanding the federal government cancel recent cuts to generic drugs
that occurred under the Drug Patent Act; and
WHEREAS
at the same time
WHEREAS
the
WHEREFORE
your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the Premier to
personally step in and order the cancellation of the Connie Curran contract;
and consider cancelling the recent cuts to the Pharmacare and Home Care
programs.
Mr. Speaker:
I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr.
Schellenberg). It complies with the
privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the
petition read?
Some Honourable Members:
Dispense.
Mr. Speaker: Dispense.
The petition of the undersigned
citizens of the
WHEREAS the Manitoba government has
repeatedly broken promises to support the Pharmacare program and has in fact
cut benefits and increased deductibles far above the inflation rate; and
WHEREAS the Pharmacare program was
brought in by the NDP as a preventative program which keeps people out of
costly hospital beds and institutions; and
WHEREAS rather than cutting benefits
and increasing deductibles the provincial government should be demanding the
federal government cancel recent cuts to generic drugs that occurred under the
Drug Patent Act; and
WHEREAS at the same time
WHEREAS the
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly
pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the Premier to personally step in and
order the cancellation of the Connie Curran contract; and consider cancelling
the recent cuts to the Pharmacare and Home Care programs.
APM Incorporated Remuneration and
Pharmacare and Home Care Reinstatement
Mr. Speaker:
I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Dewar). It complies with the privileges and the
practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the
petition read?
Some Honourable Members:
Dispense.
Mr. Speaker: Dispense.
The petition of the undersigned
citizens of the
WHEREAS the Manitoba government has
repeatedly broken promises to support the Pharmacare program and has in fact
cut benefits and increased deductibles far above the inflation rate; and
WHEREAS the Pharmacare program was
brought in by the NDP as a preventative program which keeps people out of
costly hospital beds and institutions; and
WHEREAS rather than cutting benefits
and increasing deductibles the provincial government should be demanding the
federal government cancel recent cuts to generic drugs that occurred under the
Drug Patent Act; and
WHEREAS at the same time
WHEREAS the
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly
pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the Premier to personally step in and
order the repayment of the $4 million paid to Connie Curran and her firm APM
Inc. and consider cancelling the recent cuts to the Pharmacare and Home Care
programs.
TABLING OF REPORTS
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of
Finance): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the Annual
Report of the Department of Finance for 1992‑93.
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer
and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to
table the Residential Tenancies Commission Annual Report, 1992.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker:
Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable
members to the gallery where we have with us this afternoon from
On behalf of
all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.
* (1335)
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Grain Exports
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):
Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier.
At
a recent agricultural ministers' meeting the provincial governments were
unanimous in their recommendation to the federal government to hold firm
against the unilateral threats of the
Over
the last 36 hours we have heard various reports of a potential agreement by
I
would like to ask the Premier: Is there
a cap that has been agreed to by the federal government, contrary to the advice
from provinces, and what will that cap be in terms of its impact on producers
in western Canada and in Manitoba?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, I am subject to the same news reports as the Leader of the
Opposition has received. All of my colleagues,
particularly the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) and I, are equally
concerned.
We,
through the Minister of Agriculture, have urged very strongly the federal
minister Mr. Goodale not to give in on the kinds of proposals that the
Americans are making, to absolutely hold firm and to be as tough as
possible. In fact, the Minister of
Agriculture, this morning, after hearing those same reports, wrote a very
strongly worded letter to the federal Minister of Agriculture of which I
believe the final statement is: No deal
is better than a bad deal, Mr. Minister.
Mr. Doer:
Mr. Speaker, I would agree with the Premier that no deal is better than
a bad deal. I think‑‑[interjection]
When the member for
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Leader of the official
opposition.
Mr. Doer:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The
provincial ministers of all political stripes have recommended that we not
agree to any deal with the United States, and we not agree to the unilateral
threats, and have suggested that if we cannot reach any kind of agreement on
the existing trade agreements, we look at our own strong stand against the
Americans in terms of their imports into our jurisdictions.
Given
that the Minister of Agriculture seems to have not taken the advice of the
provinces, would the Premier undertake to take this issue to the Prime
Minister? If we cannot succeed with the
federal agricultural minister, would the Premier look at going directly to the
Prime Minister and look at working with his other western Canadian colleagues?
As
the Premier has indicated, we agree, a bad deal is not worth it, Mr. Speaker,
and I would urge the Premier to move this up to the Prime Minister's level
before it is too late.
Mr. Filmon:
Mr. Speaker, as I say, the letter was fired off this morning by our
Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns). We
will judge by the response or lack of response that we may get from the federal
government whether or not the matter needs to be taken a step higher, but make
no mistake that we will not hesitate to raise this issue to the Prime Minister
directly, as we did even earlier this year when the Deputy Premier wrote
directly to the Prime Minister about the issue of the grain blockage, work
stoppages on the West Coast that were blocking the movement of grain.
Mr. Doer:
Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier:
Has he been in touch with the other western Canadian Premiers dealing
with this issue? Can we have, as we had
in 1991, I believe, a co‑ordinated effort from all three
A
cap on an allegedly Free Trade Agreement is absolutely contrary to what
everybody believed would be the rights of Canadians under that agreement, Mr.
Speaker, and I would ask the Premier, have we utilized the offices of the other
Premiers in this regard?
Mr. Filmon:
Mr. Speaker, as the minister‑‑not the minister‑‑
An Honourable Member:
Hey, give me 35 days.
Mr. Filmon: Not on your life.
Mr.
Speaker, as the member for Concordia has pointed out, this is an issue that the
provincial Ministers of Agriculture have taken a very strong stand on, and the
I
will not hesitate to enlist the support and the participation of my colleague
Premiers should this matter not be resolved to our satisfaction among the
Ministers of Agriculture, Mr. Speaker.
* (1340)
Post‑Secondary Education
Funding
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):
Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier.
Over
the past couple of days the public has learned that the government, and through
the Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Manness), has shared what the
universities will be allocated in the coming budget. Traditionally, that information has been made
public in January or February of the year so that not only the university
presidents but the students, the staff, the public and the Legislature will be
aware of what allocation and what priority the government places on post‑secondary
education.
Can
the First Minister now tell this House what he has been telling the university
presidents? How many millions of dollars
are going to be cut from university budgets?
How many hundreds of jobs are going to be lost at the universities, or
can he give us some more information on it?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, I have not been telling the university presidents
anything. That is a matter for the
member to discuss with the Minister of Education and he will make the information
known, as it has been in the past, in conjunction with the budget.
Mr. Storie:
Mr. Speaker, this raises a matter of privilege. This is not secret budget information or the
Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) would have been obliged to keep it secret,
as is most budget information. This is
public information and the university staff and the students who are going to
be affected by this and the public and this Legislature have a right to know.
Will
the First Minister, now, instruct the Minister of Education and Training to
tell this House and tell the public what budget is being allocated to
universities? How many millions are
being cut? How many hundreds of jobs are
going to be cut again at our universities?
Mr. Filmon:
Mr. Speaker, the kind of fearmongering that the member puts forth is
really inappropriate, and to talk about hundreds of jobs, layoffs, cutbacks and
all those kinds of things is a typical New Democratic smarmy, sleazy trick.
Mr. Storie:
Well, those smarmists, Mr. Speaker, also include the vice‑president
of administration at the University of Manitoba, who said today in an interview
that the layoffs might number 100 or more in various kinds of positions,
perhaps as many as 300 or 400. That is
at one university.
Mr.
Speaker, if that is being smarmy, asking for public information, information
for which there is no excuse for secrecy, which has been made public on every
other occasion, my question is what is the First Minister hiding? What is he hiding from the public? What is he hiding from the students at the
university? Why will he not come
clean? Will he instruct his minister to
do so?
* (1345)
Mr. Filmon:
Mr. Speaker, universities like all groups in society have to live within
their means. Universities have decisions
to make. They have management and
administration, and they have people working for them. Universities have their goals and objectives
that they want to achieve and they do so knowing exactly the constraints that
are on them, constraints that are on every government in
Those
matters are matters that we take seriously.
We do not take them as just simply an opportunity for political cheap
tricks in Question Period. We take our
responsibilities seriously.
The
Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Manness), in conjunction with his
responsibilities as minister, will continue to work with the universities for
the best opportunity that they have to work towards the betterment of the
universities.
Burns Committee Report
Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the
Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, on December 15 of last year, the
mayor of
That
committee had a mandate to report by the end of March. We are two weeks past the end of that
mandate.
My
question today to the Premier is: Can
the Premier indicate what the problem is, if he knows, and if there is no
problem, or what the current timetable for that report coming down and being
made public in this Legislature is currently?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I can inform the Leader of the
Liberal Party that I have only been told by a representative of the Burns
committee that they will be somewhat delayed in providing us with the
information that we have requested and that it will be brought to us as soon as
it is possible to do so.
Funding Options
Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the
Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, back on September 15, some
months ago, I and our senior federal minister now in
Mr. Speaker,
to my knowledge to date, the Premier has not made a comment on that idea.
I
wonder if in an effort to perhaps help the Burns committee, they seem to be
having some difficulty given that they have not met their original timetable.
Is
the Premier today prepared to indicate whether or not he would look positively
on a suggestion of a community bond issue, spreading the ownership of the team
and raising money other than through taxation initiatives, to recruit private
investment from as large a number of Manitobans as possible?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, we have given the mandate to the Burns committee to examine
any and all alternatives, and I know that the Burns committee will have seen
the comments of the Leader of the Liberal Party and the federal minister Mr.
Axworthy on that particular issue.
I
am sure that they will take that into consideration as they review all of the
possible alternatives to come up with the best proposal that they believe is
available to finance the Jets and an arena facility.
Mr. Edwards:
Mr. Speaker, I must add that I think a positive indication from the
Premier that that would be an issue he would be receptive to would be helpful
to that committee.
National Hockey League
Salary Cap
Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the
Second Opposition): I conclude by asking the Premier: Finally, based on the statement in the Mauro
report at page 33, that all of this discussion about an arena may be moot if
there is no salary cap in the NHL, and that is in his report, and given that
the Premier has recently met with the chief commissioner, Mr. Bettman, of the
NHL, can he indicate to this House whether or not there is any hope of a salary
cap and perhaps put to rest this whole issue of whether or not we should be
even looking at ways to finance an arena if in fact there is no salary cap?
Does
he agree with Mr. Mauro that in fact that is the first step, and can he give us
any assurance that is at all likely to occur?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, I have agreed publicly with Mr. Mauro's assessment and
analysis of the need for a salary cap and/or preferably as well a revenue‑sharing
agreement among the various franchises of the NHL.
Both
of those matters I think are fundamental to the long‑term viability, not
only of a franchise in Winnipeg, but probably at least eight of the smaller
market franchises in the NHL. That is
information, I might say, that is supported by Mr. Bettman and others who are
vitally involved with the league.
In
saying that, Mr. Bettman indicated some hope, but obviously he was not in a
position to give any assurance at the present time.
* (1350)
Grain Exports
U.S. Cap
Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson):
Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that it is apparent, according to the
article in the Toronto Globe and Mail this morning, that the federal Minister
of Agriculture is willing to sell out the interest of the western Canadian
grain farmers and, it appears, in support of eastern farmers' positions, and it
is apparent that the Americans are continuing, even though we have had
discussions on GATT, NAFTA and other trade agreements, to subsidize exports of
their wheat to the point of lowering their stocks internally and driving up
prices to allow Canadians to ship into the United States at a better price‑‑in
light of all this and in ensuring that the cap that is being discussed now is
going to be higher or lower than what is currently being exported, what is the
Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) doing beyond writing a letter to the
Minister of Agriculture demanding that the agreements that are in place stay in
place in support of the western Canadian farmers?
Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture):
Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments of the First Minister (Mr.
Filmon) in this regard and really that says it all.
I
do want to just confirm the seriousness of what we are talking about. It is my understanding from grain officials that
we have probably exported more than is currently being considered as the cap in
this year already, which means that if this should proceed, the border would
effectively be sealed off to the Manitoba farmers immediately.
I
might just further add, by circumstance I had in my office at eleven o'clock
the American consul general, regrettably now resident in Calgary. Some of you will recall he used to be
resident in our fair city of Winnipeg and I was able to transmit directly
through the consul general the concerns that the Province of Manitoba has,
indeed the western provinces have on this matter.
Might
I, while on my feet, Mr. Speaker, table the letter that the first minister
referred to that was sent to Mr. Goodale this morning.
Seven Oaks General Hospital
Funding
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):
Mr. Speaker, we were told that health care reform was on hold, but the
Connie Curran gravy train continued. We
were told there was a pause, and home care cuts continued. We were told that hospital cuts were on hold,
but there are cuts at St. Boniface and Health Sciences Centre.
Will
the minister confirm that Seven Oaks Hospital has been told to cut $6,298,200
from its budget, which in fact amounts to more than 10 percent?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of
Health): Mr. Speaker, the honourable member raises a
topic similar to the one raised yesterday by the honourable member for Brandon
East (Mr. Leonard Evans) when he raised questions about Brandon General
Hospital. The executive director of Brandon
General Hospital has very clearly repudiated what the honourable member for
Brandon East has had to say, as I suspect those involved in the delivery of
health services in our hospitals would do to the honourable member for Kildonan
as well.
Mr.
Speaker, the honourable member for Kildonan, his health policy is the status
quo, or perhaps go back to those halcyon days of the '70s and '80s when
government revenues were rising very quickly and very substantially and
government spending on the part of his colleagues of that day was falling well
behind. The honourable member for
Brandon East acknowledged yesterday and made a confession with respect to the
first permanent bed cuts in 1987 being the responsibility of himself and his
colleagues.
Mr.
Speaker, as we look forward to the future and providing quality health care for
Manitobans, hospital administrators will indeed have a role to play as will the
Department of Health.
Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I think
that is called ducking the issue.
Bed Closures
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):
Will the minister confirm that Seven Oaks Hospital has been given
permission from his department to permanently close 30 surgical beds?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of
Health): Mr. Speaker, at this point, what we have been
doing with the hospitals is examining multiyear projections and how we can live
within budgets in the future. We are
asking hospitals in Manitoba to provide us with their plans and proposals as to
how they can address the issue of shorter lengths of stay, shorter average
lengths of stay, and how to deal with the increased capacity in our hospitals
and to make those hospitals proper centres of health care so that, combined
with the services we are providing and will be providing in the community, we
can deliver the best product possible to the people of Manitoba.
* (1355)
Funding
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):
Mr. Speaker, can the minister confirm that these discussions about
multiyear budgets is really the 10 percent cut to all hospital budgets across
the province, that the minister said in the fall was on hold, and we see at St.
Boniface and Health Sciences Centre, at Brandon and at Seven Oaks now is not on
hold? Can the minister confirm that in
fact those budget cuts are in effect? Is
that not ironic considering the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation is advertising
about all the good money going into our health care system on TV?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of
Health): What we need to put on hold, Mr. Speaker, is
the useless rhetoric brought into this Chamber and elsewhere by people who are
still living in a time and an era‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House
Leader): Mr. Speaker, Beauchesne's Citation 417 is very
clear: "Answers to questions should
be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke
debate."
I
understand that our rules also say that ministers do not have to answer
questions and certainly the minister is putting that rule into practice, but if
he wants to debate and not answer questions we have the throne speech, we have
the budget. I would prefer an answer
instead.
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
member did not have a point of order. I
believe the honourable minister was attempting to answer the question.
* * *
Mr. McCrae:
Mr. Speaker, I did not mean to break any rules or to provoke any
debate. This is a very serious matter
the honourable member raises, but the honourable members are putting forward
the proposition that the only way to proceed is to leave things as they
are. Leaving things as they are will
choke our health care system till we do not have one anymore.
What
I am here to try to build and rebuild is a health care system that we can have
for this generation and so that my kids and yours and the children of the
honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) can have a health care system,
too. It is not good enough to spend it
all now and have nothing for the future.
Forestry Industry
Independent Loggers
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):
Mr. Speaker, people from the Swan River area are hopeful that after six
years of bungling by this government, we are finally seeing jobs in the logging
and the forestry industry increase.
However, people, such as the little loggers, are being shafted as they
were in the Repap deal.
I
want to ask the minister responsible why this government is not responding to
the concerns of little loggers who have established markets and are having
difficulty in getting a wood supply, due to the policies of this government who
first killed the Pennco deal and then gave away the cutting rights under Repap.
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of
Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I must express a little regret
at the tone of the question here because over the last number of months I have
had the occasion to personally speak with the member who is representing Swan
River as well as the operators from that area, and I have to say that there has
been an increase in the quota holders' allocations for the next two years. We have given the assurance and commitment to
the permit holders that we will be looking after their requirements while we
deal with the bigger picture.
So
I have given that assurance to the member as well as to the operators out
there. Just because the member went out
yesterday together with her Leader and did a bit of an upcharge, I feel a
little disappointed that the context of the question is coming forward this
way.
Ms. Wowchuk:
Mr. Speaker, I recognize that the minister has responded, but he has not
spoken to the loggers. They are wanting
answers. Since, to the existing
independent loggers who run about 18 sawmills and create about 80 jobs, this is
very important, we want assurances that they will continue to operate, that
they will have a wood supply and they will not be shafted like they will in the
Repap deal.
When
will we know that these people will be guaranteed a wood supply and will be
continued to operate alongside the other operation?
* (1400)
Mr. Driedger:
Well, Mr. Speaker, I gave that personal assurance to the member as well
as to the operators when I met with them.
As I said before, we have had an increase in the quota holders, and we
have to make sure we know what we are talking about because we have the quota
allocations which have been there all the time and have been honoured and we
have the permit holders which basically from time to time get a permit.
I
also want to indicate that two years ago there was very little interest in the
poplar and the ash, which basically were considered useless wood till two years
ago. This is basically what the whole
L.P., the Louisiana Pacific deal is about, dealing with the hardwoods which
basically is your poplar wood. I have
given the assurance to the operators that we will deal with them on our permit
basis until the whole issue with Louisiana Pacific is resolved.
I
want to assure the member here, as well as all members, that by the time this
deal is completed, and if it is completed, the operators in Swan River will not
know where to go they will be so busy trying to provide the sources of wood for
the . . . .
Forestry Industry
Treaty Land Entitlements
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):
As long as they have the assurance that they can continue to operate
their sawmills, that is what they are looking for.
Mr.
Speaker, I want to ask the Minister responsible for Native Affairs what steps
he has taken to ensure that the bands in the Swan River area are treated more
fairly than they were in the Repap deal.
Why has this government not met with the bands in the area to deal with
the treaty land entitlements and traditional lands that will be impacted by
this deal?
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister
responsible for Native Affairs): Mr. Speaker, first
of all, I say to the member we all appreciate the forest fires that she has had
to put out in her own constituency in the last while, and she comes into this
Chamber all of a sudden with a tremendous interest.
I
have to tell her that she makes accusations about the deal regarding Repap that
are not correct, and in terms of treaty land entitlements, those issues are all
in the process of negotiation. I have to
challenge her. Does the member opposite
want to see jobs in her community or not?
Churchill Airport
Emergency Response Services
Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland):
My question is for the honourable First Minister (Mr. Filmon), who is
responsible for federal‑provincial relations.
The
Churchill airport is well known internationally as being a vital airport for
planes that sometimes run into difficulty.
Over the past few years several large planes have been forced to land at
the airport in Churchill. Given the
increase in business due to the reactivation of the rocket range and the
pending initiatives in Churchill, and the recent federal government's plans to
eliminate emergency response services at that airport, will he contact the
federal government and ask them not to cut this very important program?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, I will take that question as notice.
Northern Airports
Funding
Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland):
I want to thank the honourable First Minister for the response.
As
well, I would like to ask the honourable First Minister about a similar
situation with northern airstrips and ask him to ask the minister to put holds
on cuts to northern airports in this province.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):
Mr. Speaker, I will take that question as notice as well.
Northern Airports
Funding
Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland):
Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question, and perhaps I will get
an answer from the minister responsible for airports in northern Manitoba.
My
question is: Could the minister table in
the House the complete list of cuts of northern airports such as Berens River,
Gods Lake, St. Theresa Point, the Island Lake area, and the reason for the
cuts?
Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of
Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, in
terms of maintaining the airports, our initiative is to ensure that the airports
are handled and operated in a safe fashion, and that is the bottom line in
terms of addressing the staff issues with association with those airports.
We
have a bigger issue in the North through the Hudson Bay line, and we work hard
to keep that open to serve the residents of the North. We have represented the residents of the
North in terms of VIA Rail in terms of what the federal government might do.
Mr.
Speaker, I might tell the members opposite that I went to the Hudson Bay Route
Association the other day and the M.P. for the area, one Mr. Elijah Harper, did
not show up.
Some Honourable Members:
Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Education System
Medical Services Report
Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood):
Mr. Speaker, with the restraints of resources we have felt in Education
and the reining‑in of some of the home care services, the needs of the
medically fragile children in schools is of a concern to us, to teachers and,
of course, to their parents.
We
were told a year ago that a report with recommendations as to how to deal with
these medically fragile children in the school system would be forthcoming from
this government‑‑a committee of Health, Family Services and
Education.
I
would ask the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae):
Can he tell this House, a year later, is that report completed? Do we actually have an action plan as to what
protocol should be in place so that the care of these children in schools is
assured?
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of
Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member
for the question. We are well aware of
the discussion and the dialogue leading up to the answer made several months
ago.
There
has been an internal working draft that we are trying to put the final touches
to, and I would fully expect that some time by late May, early June at the
latest, we will provide a government's view as to how we co‑ordinate
those services and provide the level of care that some people would wish.
Ms. Gray:
Mr. Speaker, with a supplementary to the Minister of Education (Mr.
Manness). That draft, I understand, had
gone to cabinet still a year ago, so it is a year later.
Can
the minister tell us: In this draft,
what does the government propose in terms of who will take the lead in ensuring
that the medical services are provided to children in the schools? Because certainly the teachers do not feel
qualified to provide some of these services.
Mr. Manness:
If it is a draft and it is not public policy, Mr. Speaker, I do not
think I have anything to announce. The
reality is that we are continuing so we hope to be in a position in short order
to more definitively answer the member's question.
Ms. Gray: Mr. Speaker, I have
a final supplementary to the Minister of Education.
Can
the minister tell us if groups such as Manitoba Teachers' Society, Manitoba
Medical Association, Manitoba Association of School Trustees, who certainly
wrote the initial report, are being consulted then in the final
recommendations, and can we be assured that their needs, as outlined in their
initial report, will be met?
Mr. Manness:
The short answer to the question is no.
I cannot be assured that the needs of everybody will be met. That is one of the dilemmas of being in
government today: everybody's needs
cannot be met. Once a white paper is put
out or a draft policy is put out, certainly those people will have an
opportunity to respond and to react. I
am sure that if they are not satisfied, the first person they will let know is
my honourable friend.
Workforce 2000
Canadian Computer Era
Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):
Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education and it concerns
the abuse of taxpayers' dollars.
On
February 2 and February 21 of this year Canadian Computer Era was given two
grants under Workforce 2000 totalling nearly $8,000. This company went into bankruptcy February
24, only three days after the second grant was approved. The bankruptcy sale was held on Saturday,
March 26. The office is now vacant but
the grant still runs until next Friday.
Could
the minister tell this House what type of training is being paid for at this
location? Given that it is an empty
office, where is the training going on?
* (1410)
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of
Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I think he has got
me. I honestly cannot answer the
question in detail. I will certainly
attempt to apprise myself of the detail around this particular case.
Given
the fact that the program has reached out to 60,000 people over the course of
three years, no doubt there are a couple of anomalies such as the member has
mentioned. I will attempt to provide
more information with respect to the details he brings before the House.
Mr. Maloway: Mr. Speaker, my
supplementary question is to the same minister.
Since
this business does not currently exist, what efforts is he going to put into
recovering these tax dollars from the bankruptcy trustee?
Mr. Manness:
Given that there is any validity whatsoever to the member's comments or
detail he brings, Mr. Speaker, we will do whatever we can to recover funds if
indeed they have been improperly appropriated.
Mr. Maloway:
Mr. Speaker, the minister is sitting around while this bankruptcy is
being settled. People with claims are
making their claims, and the minister should be doing something to protect the
taxpayers' money.
Mr. Speaker: Question, please.
Mr. Maloway:
Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary to the same minister is: Will this minister release the name of the
trainer in this case and also a copy of the contract?
Mr. Manness:
Well, Mr. Speaker, this is obviously a serious issue, but I would think
that the member, armed with that information, would have given me a call so we
could have saved whatever money that it was that he has been able to think has
been wasted and, more so, so I could have given him some of the responses to
the question he seeks.
Mr.
Speaker, it is easy to showboat in this House, but it takes a lot of courage to
phone a minister and give him the detail before the sitting of this House so
that the questions could be answered. I
know how the member plays his politics.
If he had chosen to give me a phone call this morning, I am sure I could
have answered his question today.
Railway Industry
Hopper Car Shortage
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona):
Mr. Speaker, the recent announcement that the railways are short at
least a thousand grain hopper cars to meet producer‑shipper demands
creates unnecessary delays for the farmers of this province. The railways are now using Churchill grain
boxcars and open‑top hopper cars to move grain to export position at
Thunder Bay. CN Transcona shops has the
skilled employees, the workforce to build thousands of rail cars to supply the
need.
My question
is for the Minister of Highways and Transportation.
Has
the minister met with his federal counterparts or communicated with his federal
counterparts in an effort to bring much needed railway work to this province,
to the Transcona shops, and at the same time help solve the hopper car shortage
for producers?
Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of
Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, there
is no question that the movement of grain east and west and south has been a
problem, because the railroads have run into a lot of difficulty over the past
number of months, going way back to the floods in the United States which
caused the barges to stop running. Then
they had to use rail cars. Therefore,
when the railways went looking in the fall for leased cars, they were tied up
in the United States. Also because of
the flood, the loss of corn, a lot of feed grain was sold way down into the
southern states to feedlots, good markets for our farmers.
I
have talked with both railroads and they confirm to me that they have leased
every car that they could get their hands on.
They have both added about three thousand, either now or coming, every
car they get their hands on. They have
put the CN buffalo cars, we might call them the Hudson Bay line cars, into
service. They have used the open boxcars,
which is trying to maximize the ability to move grain in a period of time that
the movement is very tight.
They
have also told me that if everything works well over the next three months,
they will catch up in terms of the volume that has been sold and that they must
ship to the East and West Coasts.
Mr. Reid:
Mr. Speaker, to prevent this from happening again, I think that is why
we should build the cars. Manitoba has
the capability of doing that.
Will
the Minister of Transportation meet with CN and insist that the company stop
the pending layoffs that are due to happen this year, and the employee
reductions, Mr. Speaker, and instead deploy these people in the construction of
the required new cars and at the same time make sure that the Churchill boxcar
fleet is available for use for Churchill this coming shipping season?
Mr. Findlay:
Mr. Speaker, very clearly, the railways are going through the same
difficulties everybody is in society:
trying to get their costs down so they can compete. The railways are making decisions, some of
which will not be popular, but I can also tell him that the railways have been
meeting with the industry trying to plan for the crop of 1994, be better
positioned in the fall of '94 to meet the circumstances that might evolve.
I
give them all credit for meeting, trying to have the right number of cars in
place, look at what they need in terms of new cars to be built or how they can
maximize their fleet to move the grain to the markets that will exist either
east, west or south or north in 1994.
I
will be meeting with CN. We will be
proposing that the Churchill line be maximized in terms of its use this year in
terms of moving grain. The issue, to
build cars or to lease them, is a decision that the railways will make.
Education System
Northern Manitoba
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson):
Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education (Mr.
Manness). The impact of the government's
cuts in education are having a very significant impact in northern Manitoba. Post‑secondary programs such as New
Careers have been cut, and the school district in Mystery Lake has been faced
with major cuts that are going to close French immersion at Deerwood School and
are going to lead to the elimination of many programs such as the talented and
gifted program. At the same time this
government is increasing funds to private schools by 8 percent.
I
would like to ask the minister if he will consult with northerners who are
extremely concerned about the impact of these cuts, and whether he will review
his educational priorities, given the fact that those cuts are now leading to
significant reductions in terms of the kind of quality of educational programs
we are facing in northern Manitoba?
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of
Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in
response to several questions over the last few days with respect to funding,
some of the divisions that feel they have been impacted negatively this year
were the same divisions that did quite well, were above the average for the
first two years of that formula and from whom we heard nothing.
I
find it curious that those divisions that are below the average increase, or in
this case below the average, tend to knock on my door and ask for more revision
of the formula when they are below the average and, of course, say nothing when
they are above the average. The average,
by definition, is half the divisions below and half the divisions above.
I
have met with most of the divisions across the province. I have tried to explain to them how it is
that through reassessment there has been some greater impact. Certainly the member knows full well that the
reassessment impact in Mystery Lake School Division has caused a much greater
share of the deemed wealth of the province to exist in that school division as
compared to others. That is why that
division has suffered this year. The
wealth of the province is more now centralized in that school division than
used to be the case.
Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions
has expired.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
THRONE SPEECH DEBATE
(Fifth Day of Debate)
Mr. Speaker:
On the adjourned debate, the fifth day of debate, on the proposed motion
of the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) for an address to
His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor in answer to his speech at the opening
of the session, and the proposed motion of the honourable Leader of the
Opposition (Mr. Doer) in amendment thereto, and the proposed motion of the
honourable Leader of the Second Opposition (Mr. Edwards) in a further amendment
thereto, standing in the name of the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and
Tourism who has 17 minutes remaining.
Hon. James Downey (Minister of
Industry, Trade and Tourism): I indicated
yesterday that I plan to complete my remarks on more of a positive note, but
before I do, Mr. Speaker, I think for some members who may not have been here
last evening and probably more importantly is the fact that after having just
visited Brandon over the last few hours last evening at a very successful rural
development forum, and a very positive kickoff this morning by the Premier (Mr.
Filmon) and the people of western and southwestern Manitoba. Many individuals came forward with a
concern: the recent actions of the
member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) and the manner in which he has
conducted himself as it relates to the affairs and the decisions and the
actions that are being carried out at the McKenzie seed company.
* (1420)
Mr.
Speaker, I would therefore just like to capsulate my comments and again refer
to the editorial, which I think was extremely accurate, on Tuesday, April 12,
where it is indicated the member for Brandon East has in fact crossed the line
as it relates to his comments.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson):
How about the one that said you should call an election?
Mr. Downey:
The member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) is talking something about an
election. The member, I am sure, when it
comes, will be fully notified and the Premier has the responsibility of doing
that. We all look forward to that time
when the people of Manitoba will in fact pass judgment as to what we have done
in the past but also what we have to do in the future.
I
just want to recapitulate that I believe it is incumbent upon the member for
Brandon East to apologize to the president and general manager of McKenzie
Seeds for the inaccurate information which he has put on the record, for the
fact that he did not carefully read the terms and conditions which have been
laid out before anything would take place, and in the broader context,
apologize to the greater community of Brandon for being so negative as a place
to do business, that he has in fact badmouthed Brandon as a place to do
business, not only for McKenzie Seeds‑‑he is suggesting it should
be moved to Toronto, to Ontario‑‑he has badmouthed it as it relates
to GWE and a place for call centres to be carried out. He has in fact badmouthed Brandon to the
point at which the people out there are prepared for a public apology from him.
That
is the comment that I am getting, Mr. Speaker.
I would urge the member‑‑[interjection] No, I am
serious. This is not a few people. This is many people coming forward saying, is
it any wonder we are having difficulty in some areas. He takes it lightly that the people of
McKenzie Seeds in Brandon are not upset with him because of the comments that
he has made, and as I said, again is reflected in the Brandon Sun editorial.
Mr.
Speaker, again, I think it is incumbent upon the member for Brandon West to
apologize‑‑[interjection] I am sorry, the member for Brandon East
is getting so excited about this. He
should apologize then for the money that McKenzie Seeds spent taking he and his
wife on a Mexican safari several years ago, on a big Mexican trip. That is what he should apologize for. It is well documented that the McKenzie seed
company entertained the member for Brandon East and his wife on a trip to
Mexico.
Point of Order
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):
My point of order, that the member for Arthur‑Virden, the Minister
of Industry, Trade and Tourism has just stated a baldfaced lie, malicious, and
an insult to my wife. I want him to
withdraw those remarks.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. Donald Orchard (Deputy
Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, on the same point
of order, without the benefit of the green book of Beauchesne's, I believe the language
used by the member for Brandon East is indeed unparliamentary. I would ask you to immediately request his
withdrawal of that very offensive and unparliamentary language.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I am dealing with this matter at this time.
On
the honourable minister's point of order, indeed you did have a point of order
because I was just going to deal with that at this point in time.
The
honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans), we will deal with your
point of order, sir. You did not have a
point of order when you rose. It was
clearly a dispute over the facts. But in
raising the point of order, you used unparliamentary language. I hate to use the words "the baldfaced
lie." Indeed, those were the words
of the honourable member for Brandon East, so I would ask the honourable member
for Brandon East to withdraw said words.
Mr. Leonard Evans:
Mr. Speaker, if I used unparliamentary language I would certainly
withdraw it, but I would ask the member‑‑
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. We will stop there
now. Let us get this right here. An unqualified withdrawal, right?
An Honourable Member:
Yes.
Mr. Speaker:
It is an unqualified withdrawal.
I appreciate that from the member for Brandon East. That has settled that.
* * *
Mr. Speaker:
Now I believe the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism
still has some time allotted to him.
Mr. Downey:
Mr. Speaker, I absolutely meant no offence to the spouse of the member
for Brandon East. I meant no offence to
the spouse of the member for Brandon East.
What I referred to was a trip which the minister‑‑[interjection]
What the member for Brandon East participated in‑‑[interjection] If
it is inaccurate, I would ask the member to bring forward‑‑[interjection]
It is nothing personal as to which I referred to in this House as it relates to
his spouse.
What
I was referring to, Mr. Speaker‑‑[interjection] I apologize, no
offence to Mrs. Evans in any way, shape or form. What I was referring to was the fact that Mr.
Evans, the member for Brandon East, had in fact done a trade trip with McKenzie
Seeds to Mexico, of which I understand his wife was part of that mission, which
is quite appropriate, and I just was putting that as a piece of information on
the record. I certainly apologize. I apologize.
No offence meant to the fact that Mrs. Evans was travelling. That is absolutely inappropriate for me to in
any way do that. [interjection] I do not want to get into it. Go ahead.
I have stated my case as it relates to McKenzie Seeds. I am merely stating a piece of history that
has taken place.
Now
back to my comments as it relates to the throne speech and the fact that‑‑I
still think it is appropriate, Mr. Speaker, I still think it is appropriate
that the member for Brandon East apologized to Mr. Ray West, for Mr. Ray West
and to the people of Brandon for the approach and for the attitude which he has
taken towards Brandon, not only as it relates to the McKenzie Seeds, six points
of which they have indicated was absolutely essential before anything would
happen there and not properly reflected as it relates to the situation as it
is. I think it is incumbent upon the
member for Brandon to apologize as it relates to that.
Mr.
Speaker, let me talk a little bit about some of the positive things that have
taken place over the past six years and what it has in fact done as it relates
to the overall economy of the province of Manitoba. Let me‑‑[interjection] I have
apologized. The Leader of the opposition
party, if any offence was taken I said it was just a matter of putting
information on the record. It was in no
way degrading or any way‑‑it is information that was on the record
in committee several years ago. It
was. If members want to do their
research, this is not the first time that was brought forward.
* (1430)
An Honourable Member:
Are you suggesting we put more on the record?
Mr. Downey:
No, I want to get on with the throne speech. This is not new‑‑[interjection]
No, Mr. Speaker, I did not attack anyone.
Why would he want to talk back 25 years?
The member for Flin Flon wants to remember that it was the member for
Brandon East (Leonard Evans) that referred back, 1969, to Ray West being in his
office trying to promote the sale of McKenzie Seeds, which was inaccurate. I am not going back 25 years at the start of
this. It was the member for Brandon
East.
Mr.
Speaker, I want to just touch on some of the positive things that have happened
over the past few weeks. This
government, in its freezing of taxes on the people and the backs of Manitoba,
this government in freezing of the taxes for the people of Manitoba have in
fact caused some positive results to take place.
When
one looks at the recent reports that have come out as it relates to the
taxation statistics across Canada‑‑this is regarding the Manitoba
average family income after tax growth in 1992, and this is according to
Statistics Canada‑‑Manitoba had the highest growth at 7.4 percent
of any province as it relates to the money that is left after taxes. This I think augurs well for the kinds of
policies that have been carried out by this government.
I
will just elaborate a little bit more.
Manitoba's average family income, after tax, in 1992 was $41,168, up
some 7.4 percent from an average of $38,327 in 1991. This was the strongest increase of any
province, more than four times the national increase of 1.8 percent for 1992.
That
is the kind of thing that is happening in the province of Manitoba with the tax
policies that the former Minister of Finance and the current Minister of
Finance (Mr. Stefanson) I hope and I encourage to do so on the 20th of April
budget.
Mr.
Speaker, those are the kinds of results that flow when you have the kinds of
taxation policies that have been introduced and carried out by this
administration.
Mr.
Speaker, I know as well that the opposition parties, and I say this genuinely,
of this province in the best of meaning are also wanting to encourage jobs and
encourage economic activity. I would
hope that we have full support‑‑and I think it is important to
point this out‑‑from the opposition members as it relates to some
of the infrastructure announcements that have been recently made. I am talking about the investment in some of
the infrastructure.
(Mrs.
Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)
I
think it is important to acknowledge in this House the fact that the member for
Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) said that the rural gasification program was in fact visionary,
compared it to the building of the aqueduct and the supply of water from Shoal
Lake to Winnipeg. I think it is
important to acknowledge when a member says that.
I
hope the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) will stand, as well, in her place and
acknowledge the support that this Premier and this government gave to the
development of the gasification in rural Manitoba. [interjection] I said to the
member for Flin Flon that it was seen as visionary.
I
would hope the Liberal Leader (Mr. Edwards) and the Liberal Party would stand
in their place and fully endorse and support the kinds of developments that
have taken place with rural gasification and the infrastructure program,
because what does that do, Madam Deputy Speaker? That gives those communities the tools to,
yes, create immediate employment but to give them the opportunity for long‑term
jobs and job opportunities. That is what
it is all about, and I am pleased to be a member of a government. I am pleased to sit with colleagues who have come
forward with such a policy and supporting communities.
Again
I would encourage the member for Swan River to speak in a positive way.
[interjection] The member for Swan River I think would speak very positively of
that situation.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, those are the kinds of things that we would like to see further
enhanced in the province.
Let
me further say that we have several other initiatives that will be carried
out. One of them is the regulatory
review that is being chaired by the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr.
Pallister). We believe it is important
to remove some of the regulations, the impediments to small business in doing
business. Again we are doing a review of
that activity.
I
would like to also point out that we, with the private sector, are carrying out
a capital review, how we can put a pool of capital in place. Again I would hope the Leader of the Liberal
Party would support it. He said that was
one of the conditions which he wanted to see brought forward. It is there.
We are carrying it out. I look
forward to further discussions and announcements as it relates to support for
small business in the province of Manitoba, again crucial to the development of
this province, again a major job creator.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to sit with a government that has introduced
changes to the taxation policies that have removed the payroll tax off of 90
percent of the businesses in this province, a payroll tax which is again a
direct deterrent, a direct impediment to the employment of people, a commitment
this government has made and in fact has moved on.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, another key area that we have moved on and which you will see
further growth in is the whole electronic highway community call centre
business. Winnipeg and Manitoba, Brandon
and many small communities are really enhancing their opportunities, and we are
helping to enhance those opportunities with some of the things that have taken
place.
What
has happened? We have seen results. We have probably seen in the neighbourhood of
800 to 1,000 jobs as it relates to the call centre activity here in Winnipeg
and in Brandon and a combination of both.
This is an area where we believe Manitoba has a tremendous growth opportunity,
and we will be working extremely hard to make sure that we accomplish some of
the goals that have been set for us.
So
we have seen not only in the call centre but in the aerospace industry‑‑and
I have to make a comment. I would hope,
in view of the fact that the new federal government took the decision to cancel
the EH‑101 causing devastation to the aerospace industry in Manitoba,
that they would try to recoup some of the activities in that field in the
aerospace industry to build back some of the losses that were in fact encountered
with the loss of those many jobs.
I
would encourage the Liberal Party in this House to pick up the phone and to
call their friends. I would as well
encourage the Liberal Party not to allow the federal government, as was brought
up in the Question Period, to stop the flow of grain in the United States.
* (1440)
Madam Deputy Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
minister's time has expired.
Mr. Downey: Madam Deputy
Speaker, I thank you very much.
Madam Deputy Speaker:
Does the honourable member for The Pas have leave to remain seated, due
to having a cast on his foot, to deliver his response to the throne speech?
[agreed]
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):
Once again, I am pleased to rise in this Chamber this afternoon. "Sitting down," I guess would be
more appropriate. Madam Deputy Speaker,
thank you for allowing me to sit down.
I
am pleased once again to have the opportunity to offer some words as a reply to
the throne speech. Before I do that,
however, I wanted to do a couple of things.
That is, I wanted to bring greetings from the people who comprise my
riding, which is The Pas.
I
bring greetings to this Assembly from the town of The Pas, the community of
Wanless. I also bring greetings from
those chiefs and councils and members of the First Nations at Opaskwayak Cree
Nation.
Cree spoken.
[English]
I
bring greetings from the mayors and councils and members of those communities
of Moose Lake, Cross Lake, Norway House, Cormorant and Easterville, Madam
Deputy Speaker.
I
also want to bring greetings from those mayors and councillors and members of
the LGDs in The Pas and Grand Rapids.
I
also want to welcome all of the members back to the Legislature. It is nice to see the members again. I look forward to returning to the House
myself after having been away for some seven to eight months.
I
welcome the new members who were elected for the first time in the by‑election
in September: the member for Rupertsland
(Mr. Robinson), the member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg), the member for St.
Johns (Mr. Mackintosh), the member for Osborne (Ms. McCormick), and the member
for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski), Madam Deputy Speaker.
I
welcome those five new members to the Legislature. I wish them well and good health, and I hope
that their experience in this Chamber will lead to their further growth and
development. From being in the
Legislature, I hope also that they will be able to represent their constituents
to the level that their constituents will want to be represented.
I offer my
congratulations to those new members.
I
also want to congratulate and welcome, at the same time, the young people who
are going to be here with us, I understand until the end of the session, the
Pages. I hope, as well, that your stay here
will be pleasant and one that will contribute positively to your life in the
future. I hope the experience that you
have gained here will also add to your further growth and development, both in
your personal life, in your studies, as well as in your working life. So congratulations and welcome to the
Legislature.
I
also want to welcome the interns who are going to be working with the three
parties here in the Legislature for the coming months, Madam Deputy
Speaker. I also hope that they, as well,
will have a good experience while here in the Legislature.
Well,
I have brought greetings and I have welcomed I think everyone back to the
Legislature, and I wanted to welcome you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and also the
Speaker to the Legislature.
During
these past few days, I know, as the new members were getting up to ask their
questions in the House for the first time, I could relate and perhaps knew what
they were going through. I think no
matter how much experience one might have in public speaking on the outside
prior to coming to the Legislature, nevertheless, one has the nervousness, the
butterflies when speaking for the first time in the Chamber. I know I went through that myself.
The
place can be rather intimidating at first as it was to me when I first arrived
here, but I also knew that the members were in good hands, Madam Deputy
Speaker, with the Speaker as well as with yourself because I remember the kind
manner by which I was treated when I came here for the first time not fully
versed on the rules and regulations that govern the operation of the
Chamber. I remember that quite
vividly. Again, congratulations to the
new members for having done such a fine job as they were asking their questions
for the first time in spite of the nervousness.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, just leading to my presentation, the main message that I want
to give to the Legislature here this afternoon is I want to quote from the
Opasquia Times paper from The Pas, and it says here, northerners want nothing
more than the same opportunities that other Manitobans already have. I want to repeat that, because that will be
the theme that I am going to be using as I make my presentation. Northerners want nothing more than the same
opportunities that other Manitobans already have.
Well,
Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey)
a while ago was asking the member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) to
apologize for comments that the Brandon East member allegedly made.
I
believe it was yesterday, or it might have been earlier today, Madam Deputy
Speaker, the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik) accused members from
this side of being hypocrites. In both
cases, when I look at the Minister of Northern Affairs and the Minister of
Industry, Trade and Tourism being so self‑righteous, the two ministers,
from the comments they have made, one would get from that that they themselves
never practise hypocrisy.
* (1450)
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I beg to differ with that because sometime this week, yesterday
or the day before, the Premier also was quoted in the paper for having
admonished and blamed the northern MLAs for not having done their jobs
allegedly when in reference to the infrastructure renewal program.
When
I heard the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism this afternoon telling the
member for Brandon East that he should apologize, the Premier and his
cheerleader the Industry, Trade and Tourism minister perhaps I think more
appropriately should be making the apologies to people of northern
Manitoba. They owe an apology at least
to the northern MLAs. More importantly,
the Premier and his cheerleader the Industry, Trade and Tourism minister I
believe sincerely owe an apology to the mayor of the Town of The Pas and its
council. I believe the First Minister
and the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism also owe an apology to the
reeve of the LGD of Consol in The Pas.
They also should apologize to the mayor and council of Cormorant, the
mayors and councils of the Northern Association of Community Councils. I really believe that is what the First
Minister should do.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, the First Minister and quite a few members from the government
side really have no appreciation of the needs and aspirations of the people living
in the North, because why on earth would they make such statements? After having received copies of those
submissions for the infrastructure renewal program from the mayor of the Town
of The Pas‑‑he sent me a copy of his submission and told me that he
had already submitted, in good time he thought, well ahead of time, in case
other projects had gone in there ahead of his application. Actually they were quite proud of themselves
for having submitted their proposal well ahead of time.
I
also received a copy of a proposal from the mayor and council of Cormorant
again telling me, here we are sending our proposal to the government just so
that you are aware of what we are doing.
That was fine. There was also a
submission from the Local Government District of Consol in The Pas.
From
those three submissions, I know for sure that the mayors and council, the
leadership of northern Manitoba were in fact doing their jobs, contrary to what
the Premier was quoted in the newspaper this week, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I
also remember‑‑and I think the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr.
Praznik) has already verified this, clarified for the Legislature this week,
yesterday or the day before‑‑I also wrote to the Minister of
Northern Affairs asking him how the NACC proposals were going to be dealt with.
As
I was travelling around the North around January, I asked the mayors and
councils of the community councils whether in fact they had prepared their
proposals and submitted their proposals.
I
came back to Winnipeg and upon my return here I wrote a letter to the minister
again asking him, how are you going to deal with the communities that are
Northern Affairs communities?
The
minister wrote back and told me in his letter of March 8, 1994: Thank you for your letter of February 14,
1994, and the enclosed list of priorities from the community council‑‑in
this case he was referring to Cormorant community council. The department did make application for
projects on behalf of the communities that met the following criteria within
their funding capabilities: short‑
and long‑term job creation, infrastructure modernization, enhancing long‑term
skills in workforce, enhancing environmental quality and sustainability, sound
financing plans, distribution and program benefits.
The
minister went on to say in his letter of March 8: The department submitted projects that the
communities had identified through the budget process as a first intake.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, the other understanding that I was given by the Minister of
Northern Affairs was‑‑I know how the process works because
oftentimes when I visit with the mayors and councils of community councils it
inevitably will lead to their relating to me their frustrations of the
process. The way it works is the
community councils are summoned sometimes to Thompson and sometimes to Winnipeg
with the idea that their budgets are going to be looked at, including their
capital projects.
So
the mayors and councils come to these meetings every year with a list of their
capital priorities and needs. Each year,
the Minister of Northern Affairs or the Department of Northern Affairs sits
down with these people and they go through the so‑called prioritization
of those project submissions. Also, Eric
Kennedy the candidate in the last by‑election in Rupertsland, indicated
to people that their total capital budget is something like $3 million. So naturally, these community councils were
looking forward to getting additional new money into their communities so that
they could be dealing with the very kinds of projects that the program was
calling for, that of infrastructure renewal.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I do not know if you are aware yourself but there are a lot of
communities in the North that are without the basic necessities of life, for
example, sewer and water. There is no
running water. In most communities in
northern Manitoba, there are no roads and highways to a lot of communities up
north. So that is why the people from
those communities were looking forward to getting additional help, assistance
from the government in order that they could address those very serious issues.
Unfortunately,
the Minister of Northern Affairs‑‑according to what I have been
able to assess myself this past week, it was he who failed to do his job. The Premier (Mr. Filmon) said that the
northern MLAs did not do their job, that the mayors and councils did not do
their job, it was up to them to do the developmental work, the submission and
the lobbying.
Well,
Madam Deputy Speaker, I wrote the Minister of Northern Affairs. I wrote to the federal government supporting
what was being submitted for funding under that program. So I think if we were to put things into
perspective here, the Premier, the Minister of Trade and Tourism and the
Minister of Northern Affairs are the ones who owe an apology to those people
living in northern Manitoba for the shabby treatment that they received from
the government.
The
Minister of Northern Affairs in his reply to questions yesterday said: "This department has always had a
capital budget, a limited capital budget.
The resources of the province are not overwhelming, as the member
knows. We sort through with NACC, with
our regional staff and we prioritize projects."
Then
he says, Madam Deputy Speaker, that after the prioritization had taken place,
the project was submitted, two applications were submitted from the department‑‑two
applications.
The
minister knows well enough. He travelled
the North not all that long ago, according to his words, to familiarize himself
with the North and also to meet with people and finally to begin to get an idea
of what issues northerners are facing.
* (1500)
So
of course I was encouraged by the minister's visit, just like the people from
northern Manitoba, hoping that from that visit the minister would get an
appreciation of the needs and aspirations of northern people, and he would come
back to Winnipeg thereafter and do his work.
Unfortunately, Madam Deputy Speaker, that did not happen.
Unfortunately,
it seems to me and to a lot of people from northern Manitoba that this
government, including the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik), does not
really care what happens in the North. I
am not afraid of saying that because I can substantiate it with data, facts,
information. I need not go into a lot of
examples. I will just give maybe one or
two of them.
There
was a swimming pool that was approved under the infrastructure renewal program
here in southern Manitoba. Just to give
perspective to what I am talking about and to substantiate the statement I make
when I say that this government does not care for the people of northern
Manitoba, that project alone, one project, the funding approval of it was more
than the two projects‑‑Leaf Rapids and The Pas were the only two
northern communities who received funding under the infrastructure renewal
program. The saddest part of it, Madam
Deputy Speaker, is the swimming pool project funding was more than the total
funding that was approved for the two northern projects.
I
can say that anytime in this Chamber and outside. I can say that without fearing that somebody
will come back and refute my statements otherwise or argue otherwise. I am not afraid to say that because that is a
sad fact of life for many northern Manitobans.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I also wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about this
government's, the Filmon government's record as far as its dealings with
northern Manitoba. This government
believes in studies. Somehow they
believe that the answer to a lot of these problems being experienced by the
people in northern Manitoba is more studies, more commissions, more assessment,
more reviews.
I
was a chief for, well, nearly six years.
I do not know how many studies and commissions and reviews I had to go
through during my six years as chief.
Like the aboriginal people, the people from northern Manitoba are tired
of being studied. We do not have to be
studied anymore. We know what needs to
be done.
For
example, the Minister of Northern Affairs knows well enough that the
unemployment rate in The Pas is currently sitting at around 25‑27
percent. Now, that is the town of The
Pas itself. But as we go further into
places like Moose Lake, Norway House and Cross Lake, the minister knows well
enough, the First Minister and the government indeed know that the unemployment
rate in those communities can go as high as 80‑90 percent.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, this government's approach, this government's response to those
kinds of statistics is to do more studies.
Well, there is nothing wrong with studies. There is nothing wrong in trying to find out
what the problem is because, if we find out what the problem is, then we would
have a good idea as to what to do in order to alleviate or correct the problem.
But
the problem that we have in the North is, once the studies and commissions have
been completed, the government takes no action.
The government refuses to listen to the people of northern Manitoba when
it comes to implementing recommendations that are contained in the many reports
and studies that have been done so far.
The
Northern Economic Development Commission‑‑how long ago was that
Northern Economic Development Commission study finished? Well, I know how long ago it was. The report was released last August. Prior to that, in Estimates and in Question
Period and in numerous correspondence with the Minister of Northern Affairs, I
used to ask him, where is the Northern Economic Development Commission at?
He
would get up in the House and very proudly say, you know, we are doing some
good work. When I used to listen to him,
one would think that the unemployment rate was around 4 percent, the way that he
used to talk about the Northern Economic Development Commission and whatever he
was doing as Minister of Northern Affairs.
But
the sad fact of the matter is that report has been finished. Not surprisingly, the recommendations
contained therein, there is nothing new.
The recommendations are ideas that people in the North have been telling
governments over and over and over again.
The establishment of a northern university setting is nothing new. The establishment of training programs is
nothing new.
The
point I am trying to make here is, when is this government going to take
action? We have a serious situation in
the North.
You
know, when people talk about the city of Winnipeg and how the welfare rolls are
continually going up, I am not trying to belittle or demean or lessen the
effects of what welfare is doing to people in the city of Winnipeg but, when
you put things into context, those problems, as serious as they are, are
nothing compared to the problems that are being experienced by the people in
northern Manitoba. Take, for example, in
the area of‑‑so before I leave that, I would once again ask the
Minister of Northern Affairs as to when we might expect action on the Northern
Economic Development Commission?
That
commission has been on the go for a long, long time. The Minister of Northern Affairs at the time,
and during the campaign, spoke about it every day in the campaign: We are going to do this for the North. We are going to do that for the North. We are going to hold a commission. We are going to find out exactly what the
problems are, and then we are going to take action.
Well,
Madam Deputy Speaker, that commission was not started until about a year ago, I
guess now, a little over a year ago, almost towards the end of the term,
knowing full well that the minister had roughly 18 months to finish the report,
and then by that time, it would be time to have another election.
What
saddens me about the North is that people are starting to lose hope. You know people are starting to get resigned
to the fact that there is not a hell of a lot that can be expected from this
government, and that is a very sad commentary.
When I go visit the communities‑‑I know the current Minister
of Health (Mr. McCrae) once told me, you know, he said, the member for The Pas
is so depressing; no wonder his people are depressed. Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is the
government that is depressing people, and that is a fact.
* (1510)
The
cuts that are being done right now in the area of health and in education, you
know, you do not have to be a trained social worker or you do not have to have
all of the education, you do not have to be a rocket scientist to be able to
figure out that that lack of programs and services that have not been there for
a while now are coming back to haunt this government and also the rest of the
people of Manitoba because we are now experiencing the social costs of the lack
of government policy.
In
the area of health care, I have always been interested in finding out from this
government as to how the so‑called health care reform is impacting
aboriginal communities. Every time that
I ask questions from this government, I am told that Indians are a federal
responsibility, so they have to go to the federal government with their
problems.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, there are some very serious impacts that this government's
health reform is having on aboriginal communities right now as we are sitting
here. The Swampy Cree Tribal Council,
for example, have been trying to work with this government for a long time
now. On February 4, the Swampy Cree
Tribal Council wrote a letter to the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) asking him
to come back to the negotiations in order that the 1964 federal‑provincial
agreement might be worked on. Essentially
the '64 agreement is an agreement between the federal and provincial government
whereby, in the Metis and Indian reserves, health services are being provided
by the provincial government, such as in the communities of Moose Lake, Grand
Rapids, Shoal River and others.
The
tribal council has, as I said, been working with this government to try and get
out of that agreement so that health transfer can take place. The federal government is willing to transfer
the program to aboriginal communities, but unfortunately, again, this
government has refused to do anything, so the process is being held up. There is no transfer taking place because the
Filmon government is not prepared to do anything in the area of transferring
more responsibility and authority to the aboriginal communities, Madam Deputy
Speaker.
The
other thing that I wanted to mention briefly, Madam Deputy Speaker, is we all
have heard that the federal Minister of Indian Affairs has announced that there
was going to be a dismantling of the Department of Indian Affairs here in
Winnipeg. I think this government here
is going to have to get on board somehow, sometimes, because there are things
happening all around this provincial government in the area of aboriginal self‑government.
A
lot of development is happening right now in the Indian community, and so far
this government has refused to do anything, even in spite of the announcement
that was made by the federal Minister of Indian Affairs a month or two months
ago. It will develop to a situation
where this government will find itself being an island amongst all this
activity that is going on in the aboriginal community because of their refusal
to participate in the evolution of aboriginal self‑government that is
going on as we are sitting here today.
I
would encourage the government, again, to get on board. You cannot continue to sit on the sidelines,
because things are happening in the area of aboriginal self‑government. I also wondered, before I leave health care, Madam
Deputy Speaker, I travelled to Moose Lake not all that long ago, and again,
while I was there, people were telling me about the condition of the road that
goes from Atikameg Lake to Moose Lake. I
think we all remember here, I believe it was last summer, when there were
vehicle accidents happening on the Moose Lake road, and it became so serious
that the RCMP in The Pas were advising people not to travel on the road because
of the number of accidents that were occurring on the road at that time. So on the one hand, we are looking at a
Highways and Transportation issue, but at the same time, we are looking at a
health issue.
I
was talking to women there on my last visit, and they were telling me stories
of people becoming injured or people becoming ill, women who were pregnant and
having to travel to The Pas to see the doctor, of the problems they were having
travelling along that road. So it is not
only a transportation issue, it has become a health issue, it has become a
safety issue.
The
Premier chooses to say that we are not doing our jobs as northern MLAs, and I
know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that quite frequently, I get up in this House to
ask the government to see what they could do for the people of Moose Lake. Unfortunately, no action has ever been taken
by the government in that respect.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, one community I visited, and this is what I mean when I say
that this health reform also, whether this government likes it or not, does
impact on aboriginal communities. They
can say for as long as they want that it is a federal responsibility, but it is
not. We are citizens of Manitoba. We are citizens of this country, and more
importantly, we are people. We are human
beings, just like the members of the government side are.
One
experience I had in Pukatawagan, I would go into a nursing station, and I
witnessed a maintenance worker, a maintenance person, the janitor, the guy who
cleans the place up, fixes things as they need repairing, actually performing
the X‑ray duties of that nursing station.
So I was curious, you know. I did
not think that a janitor should be doing X‑rays on people who come to the
nursing station, so I started to ask questions.
The answer that was given to me was they do not have anybody else, they
do not have anything else. That is the
only thing that they could do. The
person was sent out for a two‑ or three‑day training session
outside, came back, and now he is the X‑ray technician for the nursing
station in Pukatawagan, Madam Deputy Speaker.
That is not acceptable. It is
totally unacceptable, as I said earlier, and I would hope that the Minister of
Northern Affairs and the Premier and the Minister of Industry, Trade and
Tourism take this to heart.
* (1520)
All
we are saying, Madam Deputy Speaker, is we want to have hope. We want to be partners in this province. We want to be a part of this province, but
more importantly, northerners want nothing more than the same opportunities
that other Manitobans already have.
Thank you very much for the time that you have given me.
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of
Family Services): It is indeed a pleasure for me to rise and to
respond to the throne speech that was introduced last week by our government,
and first of all to commend you, Madam Deputy Speaker and Mr. Speaker for your
return. I know with the close numbers on
both sides of the House that the job and the challenge in the Chair is going to
be one that whoever is sitting in that place will have to take very seriously
and be alert and on top of things every minute of some of the long and hectic
days that are spent in this Chamber. So
I wish you well as we go through this session.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I also would like to say congratulations to the six young
people that were chosen as Pages to look after our every need as we sit through
the session. You know, in the eight
years that I have sat in this Legislature it never ceases to amaze me that
every year as the new Pages are introduced they seem to look younger and
younger. I can recall back to my very
first session, and it is some eight years ago when my oldest child was only
twelve years old, and now I look to my daughter who is in second year
university taking education and she is indeed older today than the young people
that are here. I know it is an exciting
time for them, and they will be educated in some very different ways throughout
the next several months as they serve us.
So I wish them well.
I
also would like to congratulate our five new members in the Legislature. The member for Osborne (Ms. McCormick) who is
my critic from the Liberal Party, I look forward to positive dialogue with her
and very positive recommendations as we go through discussions on the
Department of Family Services. I know
she has the background and a real sensitivity to the issues in the Department
of Family Services, and I look forward to constructive dialogue and creative
thinking around some of the new opportunity we have for change.
I
would like to also welcome the new member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski), the
member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh), Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson), and my
neighbour, the member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg). I also would like to comment that I hope to
serve him well as his representative in the Legislature. I know that the member for Rossmere does live
in my constituency, and I hope he enjoys the information and the facts that are
sent out from time to time about the positive record of our government and the
good things that are happening in the province of Manitoba as a result of six
years of this Conservative administration.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I welcome all members back to the Chamber and say to all of
those that have new responsibilities, I wish them well in their
endeavours. Especially, I would like to
single out the new Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship (Mr.
Gilleshammer) and indicate that I understand and knew that he was on the hot
seat many times as the former Minister of Family Services in this House. I was very pleased to see that he may be
continuing that tradition, because he was one of the people to get one of the
very first questions in this Legislature.
I
was somewhat dismayed to think that the Department of Culture, Heritage and
Citizenship would take priority over the Department of Family Services with
opposition members in this House, but anyway, as I said, I wish all well who
will be serving the people of Manitoba throughout the next number of months and
up until the next election in the province of Manitoba.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, as Minister of Family Services, I feel that my deportment and
the current initiatives that are ongoing within my department hold a very
special extra significance this year as we celebrate the United Nations
International Year of the Family.
Throughout this year, Manitobans, Canadians and people right around the
world are celebrating the family as the very basic building block of our
society.
I
also commend you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the work that you have been doing
as an ambassador for family year in the province of Manitoba and sharing with
all members of this Legislature the very positive things that our Manitoba
community is doing, the thousands and thousands of people that have become
extremely excited about the volunteer commitment and the community commitment
that they have to make International Year of the Family a very significant year
for them in their lives and in their communities.
I
know that as the year goes by, we are going to see communities, families coming
together around the issue of holding the family up as the cornerstone of our
communities and our society, so I thank you too for the work that you have been
doing and sharing with all members of the Legislature the activities that are
ongoing and giving them as much assistance as you possibly can to ensure that
we as elected representatives are all responsive to the needs of our
constituents and our communities.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, because my department does provide social services for
families, I am well aware of the fragility of the family unit and the extent to
which warmth, caring and comfort are currently beyond the reach of some of the
clients that my department serves. For
their sake and for the sake of all of those who have come from a nurturing
family life and family background, I encourage every Manitoban to continue the
efforts to bring the International Year of the Family very much to life in this
year, 1994.
At
the same time, in the upcoming months of the new fiscal year my staff in the
department and I will continue our efforts to provide responsive and caring
social services throughout the province of Manitoba and to Manitobans.
My
department is the third largest in the Manitoba government with a budget this
past year of $657 million and a staff of about 1,600. The programs and the services and the staff
that we have extend and commit themselves to providing service throughout the
entire province. If I can just explain,
especially for those that are new in the Legislature, the kinds of programming
that my department provides are in the areas of social assistance, child
welfare, care and services and programming for those that are living with a
mental disability, family conciliation, family dispute services and child care.
These
services that are provided affect the lives of tens of thousands of Manitobans,
and we estimate that during a year about 185,000 people receive financial help
or social services from the department.
These numbers continue to rise, unfortunately. In fact, the demand for services has grown
tremendously over recent years, and it has caused our total budget in the
department to grow by 47 percent in the past five years.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, we have made a commitment to social services in this province,
and we have year upon year spent more money to provide for the basic needs, the
vital needs of those that are most in need in our province.
As
you can appreciate, as all members of the House can appreciate, there are close
links between the current economic conditions in Canada and Manitoba on the one
hand and the needs and numbers of our clients on the other.
With
this in mind, our government remains committed to following our policies of
fiscal responsibility and deficit reduction.
As we strive to achieve our goal for a balanced budget, despite cuts to
federal transfer payments and the negative impacts of a prolonged recession,
the Department of Family Services will continue to meet the needs of Manitobans
as our No. 1 priority.
* (1530)
I
want to ask you to consider two things:
(1) our government is working very hard to hold the line on spending
while providing key services; and (2) keep in mind that two‑thirds of our
entire provincial budget goes to three departments: Health, Education and Training and Family Services.
It
then becomes clearer, because when you take into account that two‑thirds
of the budget and another 10 percent or 11 percent to service the debt, we
indeed only have about 24 percent of the entire budget to serve the other 15
departments within government.
We
have seen over the last number of budgets that we have had to reduce services
and streamline services in those other departments and tried at that time to
maintain and enhance the spending in Health and Education and Family Services. Unless we try to find innovative new ways of
delivering services and a less costly nature in those three departments of
government, we are not going to have the services that we treasure so much on
the social side of government there for our future and future generations.
So,
Madam Deputy Speaker, it is very important that we look at the services that we
do provide and try to provide those services in the most efficient and
effective way to meet the needs of the Manitobans who require the services that
we provide.
We
have to ensure that Manitobans are our No. 1 priority, and the challenge for us
is going to be no different from the challenge that is in any other province
throughout the country.
It
does not matter what political stripe, what party governs any province across
the country. Every province and every
government is facing the same dilemma and every government is going to have to
make the difficult decisions and try to balance between how we provide the
services that are needed with the fiscal reality. So there is no one answer, no easy solution,
and I think all governments are struggling with the same problems. If we read the headlines in the newspapers
from right across the country, we will know that NDP governments do not escape
the criticism from those who most need the services, that reductions are being
made and services are being cut.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, the tough decisions have to be made today to ensure that we
have programs available to Manitobans, to Canadians, into the future. I do not want to leave a legacy of poverty to
future generations. There is a good side
or a positive side that always comes along with negative, and that is that we
have in Manitoba held the line on spending, and we have increased funding to
the vital services and the three larger departments within government and
maintained services, in many instances enhanced. We have had to redirect at times the money
and change the focus of the way we are spending that money, but we have indeed
set the climate here in Manitoba for future job creation and for future
economic activity so that those who are most in need will have the opportunity
to work and to contribute and pay taxes and ensure that the programs are here
into the future.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I do not think government can take ownership over the
issues. No problem within our Canadian
society is government's problem alone.
There needs to be partnership, co‑operation. Manitobans need to be working together to
ensure that we come to positive solutions with a concerted effort throughout
the community, whether it be government in partnership with the private sector,
in partnership with those who deliver the service or in partnership with the
volunteer community out there that has so much to offer and so many good
suggestions.
I
want to say to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I have met with many, many people in
the last six months, since I have become the Minister of Family Services, not
only with the organizations, the agencies that we fund as a department, but
with members of our Manitoba community, people within the community who have
said: How can we help to be a part of
the solution; we know there is no more money but, we also do know there are
many services that need to be provided; tell us where the pressure points are,
and we will attempt to assist you in trying to resolve the problems.
For
me, that has been very heartwarming. I
know there are people out there who are concerned for their fellow Manitobans
who are more in need, and they want to help to make a difference. I hope we can develop those partnerships over
the next short period of time so we actually can look at new and innovative and
creative ways of doing things.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, as the throne speech did indicate, we recognize that the social
safety net, which the federal and provincial governments have developed over
the years, is one of the most important and distinguishing features of our
Canadian identity. We are determined to
take steps to improve that safety net. I
have stated many times that my No. 1 priority is to ensure that the men, women
and children who need our services have access to them.
Now
I am adding another message to that. It
is our responsibility to ensure the services we provide are benefiting those
who receive them. Despite radical social
and demographic changes over the past few decades, we have not seen changes to
our social programs. We are living in
the '90s today. Many of the programs
that we have put in place as governments over the last few decades have never
been evaluated, have never been looked at to see whether programs that were
identified and implemented in the 1970s still meet the needs of Manitoba's
society today.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, if we are going to look at trying to meet the needs into the
future, we are going to have to evaluate those programs, ask ourselves, have
they been successful? Are they meeting
the needs today? Can we measure
outcomes? If we cannot, we are going to
have to get rid of those programs and refocus and redirect the resources that
we were providing to those programs into new innovative ways of doing business
in Manitoba. Doing business means
serving the clients that we, as government, are here to serve.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, many of the changes that have been made throughout the '70s and
the '80s have been on an ad hoc basis, as there was more revenue to spend, and
governments back in the '70s and the '80s were receiving increased revenue from
increased taxes when the economy was booming.
New programs were created, and then were just added on to the old
programs. We are at a point in time
where we know that the well is dry.
There is no more money. It does
not matter whether you are in NDP Ontario or NDP British Columbia, Liberal
Quebec, Liberal New Brunswick, the well is dry.
There are no more revenues coming in.
If we want to try to serve the people that we have served in the past to
the best of our ability, we are going to have to find new ways, more efficient
and more effective ways, to deliver those services. I am committed to looking at that in the
Department of Family Services as we go through the next year and into the
future.
* (1540)
If
I look at our social safety net today, I am not so sure that we have not put in
place a system, and I have said this publicly before, that almost promotes
welfare as a career option. I do not
think that is an option that we want to promote for our children today and for
our future generations. Along with
having a job, contributing something back to the community, comes a greater
sense of self‑esteem and a greater quality of life, something that all
Manitobans do have a right to.
We
talked about pilot projects in the throne speech that would take us into the
future and look at new ways of doing things.
I have made my personal commitment, and I know it is our government's
commitment, to the process of renewal of our social safety net, renewal of our
welfare system.
One
of the first projects that we talked about will focus on single mothers. Single moms are a growing sector of our
population who need our attention, our caring and our support. If we go back to the 1970s, 90 percent of our
single, adolescent mothers gave their children up for adoption. Today 90 percent of single moms keep their
babies. We have a very definite
shift. We have had a shift over the last
two decades in our society, and yet we have not adapted our programs to meet
the new and emerging needs today.
There
are about 12,000 single moms, Madam Deputy Speaker, in Manitoba who are
currently on welfare. Almost all single
moms between the ages of 18 and 20 are on welfare, and 63 percent of them do
not have a high school education. Their
chances of finding a job are highly unlikely, and welfare seems to be their
only option. I think we need to give
them more options and we can do this by providing enhanced education, training
and work experience opportunities, and child care will be a factor.
I
have indicated in this House, and I will continue to indicate that we have
nothing to be ashamed of on our record for child care in the province of
Manitoba. We have seen increased
financial resources of $20 million in the child care line since we came to
office in 1988. We have some of the
highest standards in North America for our child care workers. We have more licensed spaces, some 3,000 more
licensed spaces in our province since 1988, from 16,000 up to over 19,000
spaces today. The total number of
subsidized spaces in our child care system in 1988 was 4,200, and today we are
up to 9,600. That has been a major
increase, over doubling of the number of subsidized spaces than a‑‑[interjection]
Well,
I hear the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) saying we have decreased. Tell me how an increase from 4,200 spaces to
9,600 spaces in our child care system is a decrease. Somehow it escapes me, Madam Deputy Speaker,
her rationale, her understanding of talking about 4,200 to 9,600‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker:
Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows):
I wonder if the minister could tell us how many cases there were before
the reduction to 9,600‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker:
The honourable member for Burrows does not have a point of order.
* * *
Mrs. Mitchelson:
Madam Deputy Speaker, I would almost fear having members opposite sit
around a table determining a budget when they somehow calculate 9,600 over
4,200 a decrease. I have difficulty
understanding, and I really do fear for Manitobans should people opposite be
sitting around a government table and developing a budget when their
mathematics certainly leaves something to be desired.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, there was a reference in the throne speech to a forum on
Partnership to Independence that would be looking at bringing partners around the
table to try to determine how we might deal with the issue of getting people
off social assistance and into the workforce.
I
am looking forward to that process where we will be bringing the private sector
in and asking them where they feel the job opportunities will be into the
future, what are the stumbling blocks, what are the disincentives within the
system now that do not really allow the private sector to hire welfare
recipients into their workforce and how can we partner together to see whether we
cannot accomplish changing things.
The
private sector is not the only group of people in Manitoba that we are going to
consult with. We are presently in the
process of consulting with clients that use the system, young single moms,
asking them what they feel the problems are, where have they experienced the
roadblocks, and how can we try to provide a better opportunity for them to
train and to fit into the workforce. We
are also going to be talking to those who are on the front lines delivering the
service to the clients within my department and asking them what their
experiences have been, what is working out there in the system, what is not
working and how can we try to change what is not working so that there is an
easier move from welfare to jobs and independence.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, a very important component of the whole consultation process is
going to be dealing with the community at large out there and the volunteer
community. I have had meetings with
church groups and organizations that want to be a part of the solution. I have talked to service clubs who have said
that there are some really good things happening out there right now. In a very small way, and sometimes in a very
isolated way, they are doing really good things.
So
I am saying, what are the things that you are doing? Are they working? Can we expand on something that is already
there, and do you want to make a volunteer commitment to try to help make a
difference? Many of them have said to me
we want to be there. We want to be a
part of the solution. I am no longer
going to leave them isolated out there just doing their things, but let us get
an inventory of what is happening out there, what is going on. How can we enhance or build upon the things
that are working really well, and how can we change the things that are not
working?
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I have every expectation that we are going to be able to make a
difference, and we are going to be able to move in a meaningful way putting
supports in place around those who most need those supports so that we can move
people from a welfare system which I do not think is a choice for anyone. If they had an option or a choice to be a
part of the workforce, to be a part of the community and to give something to
the community, I do not think anyone in our Manitoba society would choose
anything different. We are wanting to
give those opportunities to all Manitobans.
I
look forward and I am extremely excited that I will have the opportunity as the
Minister of Family Services to have a positive impact on some of those within
our society that most need the help and that are most wanting to get on with
life and onto feeling better about themselves because they do have more
opportunity. Single moms are just one
group of young people who are in need of intervention today to guide their way
towards success in the future.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I am really disturbed by the increasing numbers of children
that are being taken into care in our province, and we are currently examining
a variety of options that might be available to us to promote early
intervention and improve response to families in our communities. We know that the first six years of a child's
life are the most formative years, and we also do know too that children at
that age need stimulation, they need development, they need opportunity. We have to focus some of our energies and
some of our resources into early intervention, into early child development,
because we all do know what happens once children get into the child welfare
system. They go on into the justice
system, and we are seeing instances of youth violence and crime at younger and
younger ages. We have to reverse that
cycle.
* (1550)
I
think one of the ways to do that is to work within families, within communities
and with children at a younger age so we can do some of the up‑front
preventative work so that we are not having to protect and try to put in place
programs at the end when at times it seems like there will never be a positive
solution to some of the problems that exist today. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am really looking
forward to opportunity to change the way we deliver services, to put money in
at the front end so we do not need it at the far end and, if at all possible,
we want to try to keep people and children in their homes. But before we can say that we have
accomplished something we have to ensure that their mental and physical and
emotional needs are being protected. So
there are two sides to this.
If
we can keep families together, I think that is the preferable option, but we
have to at the same time ensure that those children that are being maintained
and supported within families are protected.
So there can be some extremely exciting things that can happen on the
child welfare side of things, and I am looking forward to opportunities to
implement new ideas, new ways of delivering service and new up‑front
intervention.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, it is important in delivering programs in my department that we
try to keep all Manitobans in their homes, and we have worked in the past and
will continue to work with the community to develop projects that encourage
community living.
One
example of that is the pilot project that has been implemented already, In The
Company of Friends. It is a project that
links Manitobans who are living with a mental disability to volunteers who
provide support that enables people to become part of their community. These support networks are integral to
success of community living initiatives, and I am firmly committed to ensuring
that all Manitobans have every opportunity to enjoy a high quality of life as
contributing members of their community.
As I have said before, it takes the whole community‑‑complete
community effort. It takes volunteers and
local organizations, church groups and service providers to ensure that that
network of support and friends around individuals allows them to achieve their
goals of independent living.
We
will continue, Madam Deputy Speaker, to explore community living opportunities
for Manitobans who are living with a mental disability. I look forward to working with Manitobans in
their communities to develop and expand initiatives in this area. I have met with many people who have people
that are aging and have stayed at home and provided support for a mentally
disabled child for many, many years, and those children have become
adults. They are getting older, and
those parents are becoming quite elderly and having difficulty maintaining
those grown children now in their own homes.
My
heart goes out to those people, because I believe they have made a major
commitment to our society and to their family.
We have to find ways that we can deal with the issue of at least
providing some temporary support. I know
it is an extreme worry for those that are aging about where the supports will
be for that child turned adult once they are gone or not able to look after
them. I have placed a high priority
within my department on the area of dealing with persons with mental
disabilities and providing support to their families.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, many of the programs that we have in place in the Department of
Family Services rely on the input and the suggestions of representatives from
across the province, from all of the agencies that work with us and from
community organizations, as I have said before, churches, volunteer groups,
service clubs and individuals. Because
of the commitment that we have from the Manitoba community and from Manitobans,
I really believe that ours is a province of which I feel very proud in which to
live and to raise my family.
I
would choose nowhere else in this country, in this world to live. I believe that we have much to offer, and
much of the strength within our province is our people and our families, our
community, our community commitment.
As
we celebrate International Year of the Family, I would like to invite every
member of this Legislature to thank all Manitobans for their great sense of
community spirit, for their dedication to family and for their ability to take
on challenges and be rewarded with successes.
As I said just a minute ago, I am extremely proud to be a Manitoban, I
am extremely proud to serve the constituents of River East, and I look forward
to the session ahead.
I
find the Department of Family Services to be a challenge. Along with a challenge, comes always an
opportunity. I look forward to the
opportunity to working with Manitobans right throughout this province, to
attempting to make lives just a little bit easier for some of those
Manitobans. I think, if we can
accomplish in some small way turning the tide and changing the way things are
done in Manitoba, I will feel like we have accomplished and moved forward in the
right direction.
So
thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I look
forward to working with all members of the Legislature through the upcoming
session.
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):
Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to add my comments to
the record on this throne speech, but before I begin, I too would also like to
recognize some people who are new to the House.
I hope that the new members, the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh),
the member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg), the member for Rupertsland (Mr.
Robinson), the member for Osborne (McCormick) and the member for The Maples
(Mr. Kowalski) enjoy their experience here in the House, and I look forward to
working along with them.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, I would also like to welcome the new Pages to the Legislature
and hope that they enjoy their experience here, find it rewarding and take back
good memories from this building. I
would also like to recognize the interns who have been working with each of the
caucuses. They have been working here
since last fall, and I am sure that they were anxiously waiting for the session
to be called so they could have the opportunity to work and have the experience
of working through us when the House is in session. I talked to a few of them, and they did
indicate that in fact it was quite different than when we are not in
session. They are enjoying the
experience very much.
Also
to the Clerk and the staff of the Chamber, I hope that we may look for your
guidance and support, and we thank you for your patience while we are
deliberating here in the Chamber. To
you, Madam Deputy Speaker and Mr. Speaker, I commend you on your work and look
forward to your guidance and control sometimes when things get a little bit out
of hand here.
* (1600)
To
all members who have been away from the Chamber for some time, I look forward
to discussing and debating the many important issues that are facing the
people, particularly in my case, the people of the Swan River
constituency. In this, the Year of the
Family, I would like to recognize all families, but in particular, I would like
to recognize the families of the members here in the Chamber. I think many times the people in the public,
our constituents, do not realize that the families of people who serve in this
Chamber have to make sacrifices when government members are away doing their
business and when we are attending to our business here in Winnipeg. So I would like to recognize those members‑‑[interjection]
Madam
Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Orchard) is commenting on
a letter that is in the editor‑‑and as I get on in my speech, I can
assure him that I will comment on that letter as well. As long as he would just be a little bit
patient, because this is the throne speech, and I would like to address some of
the concerns in the throne speech first if I could. If he would allow me, I will get into that
letter a little bit later on.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, we have been waiting a long time for the throne speech to be
presented, and we were hoping that this government would put forward some new
ideas, some new initiatives that would give hope to the people of Manitoba,
particularly rural Manitoba, something that would give people faith in this
government, but unfortunately that has not happened. This throne speech appears to be just a
repeat of promises and ideas that the government has been trying to regurgitate
for the last six years but is not coming up with anything new.
There
are a few areas of the throne speech that I would like to address, Madam Deputy
Speaker. One of them is the
infrastructure program, and although there are many concerns there is a part of
the rural infrastructure program that I am very pleased about, and that in
particular is the attempt being made to bring natural gas to areas in rural
Manitoba. That is something that I have
wanted to see for many years now. I have
always felt that there are areas in rural Manitoba where we could have economic
development if we had an alternate energy source. It looks like that is going to happen, and I
am very pleased that the Swan River area is one of the areas that is going to
have the opportunity.
I
have not had the opportunity to speak to many of the municipalities yet, but
they are supposed to be getting a letter from Centra Gas and the government indicating
what their share will be, and that is something that the municipalities will
then have to decide on how they are going to raise that money. The next step is to have a canvass of the
communities and see at what percentage rate the people will sign up. I know that a couple of years ago when I did
a survey trying to encourage the government to move in the direction of
bringing natural gas to our community, close to 96 percent of the people in the
area said that they wanted natural gas.
So I hope that the $300 sign‑up fee will not be a deterrent and
that we will have enough people that will sign up and that we will have natural
gas coming into the area.
However,
Madam Deputy Speaker, it is going to be some time before that is able to happen
because there are still negotiations that have to take place on how that gas is
going to come in from Saskatchewan, if that is where it comes from. I think that this is a good announcement, and
I commend the government on their work.
I wish that it was going to more communities. Just as electricity was brought to all of
rural Manitoba, I wish that natural gas were being brought, and this is one
step. This is one step in that direction,
and I hope that we will see equality brought to all of Manitoba.
We
have to have the opportunity to diversify our economy, and there are people in
Swan River who have done a tremendous amount of work in that area. We look forward to the opportunity to having
another energy source so we can also diversify.
Just as the people in southern Manitoba have all these services and all
these opportunities, it is fair that the Swan River area should have it. I hope some day that northern Manitoba, that
has been very badly neglected, the North, the NACC communities, and a good
portion of my community and the reserves in my community and in the North‑‑I
hope that this government will have the initiative to consider those areas and
expand these services and bring equality to all Manitobans, not only with an
alternate energy source but in other areas of health care, education, job
opportunities, that the province does not end at No. 1 Highway, that there are
people north of that area that would want the opportunity to grow.
Mr. Lathlin: Maybe we should have
a minister of southern Manitoba.
Ms. Wowchuk:
Yes, the member for The Pas says we should have a minister of southern
Manitoba. I think we have quite a few of
those ministers who look after southern Manitoba much better than they do after
northern Manitoba.
With
regard to the infrastructure program, I want to raise one more point, and it
was raised by my colleague from The Pas here, who talked about the neglect of
the NACC communities in the North with these projects.
In
speaking to representatives, members of the NACC communities from my
constituency, they told me that they had a meeting with the Minister of
Northern Affairs (Mr. Praznik), in fact, in Swan River. He told them there that their projects would
be put on the list, that they did not have to worry about it, this would be
handled for them. So it was with great
disappointment to learn that the minister had only put two of these projects
onto the list of projects to be accepted.
I am sure that people in the Northern Affairs communities who had
particular projects that they wanted raised or put onto the list will be quite
disappointed.
The
other area that I would like to address is the area of agriculture. In the throne speech, we are told that the
ministers are going to work very closely with farm leaders to combat renewed
agriculture trade harassments from south of the border and design needs
adjustments to safety nets. But we talk
about these harassments from across the border and I wonder why this
government, these members were so anxious to sign the Free Trade Agreement and
say that everything was going to be so good with the Free Trade Agreement and
not think about it.
Madam
Deputy Speaker, would you please ask the Minister of‑‑I forget now,
what is he?‑‑this minister who used to be the Minister of Health is
getting very anxious about one of his colleagues, so if he could be patient, or
he can call directly to Mr. McKenzie or he probably drafted the letter for him,
as I understand it.
Anyway,
the issue of agriculture is very important to this province, and I think that I
am disappointed in what is happening, both by the federal government, by the
federal Liberals, who have let us down.
First of all, they let us down at GATT and now, bending with the free
trade and the amount of grain we are going to be able to ship into the United
States, is a very great disappointment.
I am disappointed at the stand this government has taken on the
transportation payment and the losses.
We are going to have a tremendous loss to the economy in Manitoba, but
the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) is talking about diversifying, but there
is going to be loss to our economy.
He
has talked about how we are going to subsidize or compensate for these losses,
and I look forward to the details of that proposal from the government, because
to lose that much money from the economy of rural Manitoba is a tremendous
loss, and it is the small communities that are going to suffer. We need to have that growth in our rural
communities. We cannot take that kind of
loss and the loss of services to rural Manitoba.
* (1610)
Madam
Deputy Speaker, as I look at this throne speech, there are many issues in here
that we could address, but there is one issue and the minister of‑‑I
cannot remember of what he is the minister of but he is not the Minister of
Health‑‑is very anxious to have me address an issue that is very
important to my constituency.
The
proposed Louisiana Pacific project has caused the Conservatives some problems. I want to say that since the announcement was
made I told the people of Swan River and I told the government that I finally
welcomed the opportunity after six years of bungling by this government. There was a deal when we were in government,
Madam Deputy Speaker, the‑‑
An Honourable Member:
Then you will not have any trouble supporting this.
Ms. Wowchuk:
No, I have no trouble supporting it, for the minister's
information. I have said very clearly I
have no trouble supporting this project.
Point of Order
Mr. Orchard:
Madam Deputy Speaker, I wonder then if my honourable friend the member
for Swan River also supports the press conference of Marianne Cerilli‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker:
Order, please. The honourable
Minister of Energy and Mines does not have a point of order.
* * *
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
Ms. Wowchuk:
Mr. Speaker, when we were in government, when the honourable member for
Dauphin was the Minister of Natural Resources, and in fact the previous member
for Swan River, Mr. Leonard Harapiak, recognized that we had a supply of aspen
in the Swan River area that was aging and could be harvested. In fact, our government did a tremendous
amount of work researching on the quantities of aspen that was there, and we
realized that if a project could be established and if it was done right, the
local people could benefit, and that was the direction we were going in.
I
want to tell you that when we were doing this project, the Pennco project‑‑the
minister of whatever, I cannot remember what he is minister of now‑‑we
went out, or I was not there, but the ministers involved at the time went out
and met with local people. There were
meetings in Minitonas and there were meetings in other areas, and they told the
loggers what they were planning to do.
They promised the loggers in the area that they would be involved. Their wood supply would be protected. They would have jobs.
Mr.
Speaker, studies were done, and there was the Wellwood study and other studies indicating
that there was a wood supply available.
We were prepared to bring that project to Swan River, but this
government took over and they killed the Pennco project, and they signed the
Repap deal which took away and hurt the people of Swan River more than they can
admit. [interjection] That is right.
Now, this government is in the process of negotiating another deal, and
the local loggers are very concerned because they were shortchanged by the
government when they killed the Pennco deal, and they were wined and dined by
this government and Repap and told that they would be looked after. They would not have to be worried, there was
a wood supply for them.
I
talked to the chief of the Indian Birch Band who said he was promised a wood
supply under Repap. Nothing. They did not get any wood. The Shoal River Band has a sawmill, and they
were promised wood. Nothing. The sawmill is not running because this
government, Mr. Speaker, tied up all the wood in the Swan River area with the
Repap deal.
Since
I have been elected, I have been asking this government to recognize their
mistake and change that cut area so we could have economic development in the
Swan River area. Now, these people are
asking me if I support the Louisiana Pacific project. Of course, I do. We want jobs for the Swan River area, but we
want it done right, and we want the local people to be treated fairly. The Minister of Natural Resources (Mr.
Driedger) said today that he has talked to the people, and I have arranged
meetings with him for the little loggers, but they do not have an answer and
they are afraid that they are going to be treated the same way as they were in
the Repap deal. You people should
understand that you shortchanged them once and they are afraid of you this time. It is the same thing with the Minister
responsible for Native Affairs (Mr. Praznik).
He has not arranged one meeting with the bands to ensure them that they
are going to be protected. [interjection]
You
are the minister. You have the
responsibility to take the initiative.
Do you not have any responsibility to them? No.
The Minister of Native Affairs says that the native people have not
taken any initiative. Well, Mr. Speaker,
there is a letter, and I will bring it here tomorrow, from the Pine Creek Band
to the government on this particular project.
There is a letter from them, and the minister should show some
leadership that he is going to show responsibility of protecting the people of
the band.
So,
Mr. Speaker, the minister is saying that there is no leadership. I will tell the minister that I was elected
by the people of Swan River, and I will stand with the people of Swan River and
make sure that their concerns are addressed, because this government is not
addressing them. This government is not
addressing the concerns. I have met with
the people of Swan River and I have assured them‑‑[interjection] We
will see who represents them, because I do not think this government is
representing the people of Swan River when they are not prepared to deal with
the issues.
So
there are concerns with this proposal. I
have stated to the people of Swan River very clearly that I do support this
project and I welcome the jobs to Swan River, but I want it done right. If this government was so sure of this
project and that everything was okay with it and all of these issues would be
addressed, they would meet with the people and they would address them. They would deal with the concerns of the
local loggers, and they have not done it.
There are people who have been trying to get a wood supply ever since
the Repap deal was signed and this government is not addressing them.
We
have people in the department that tell us that the wood is being saved for a
big company. What about the people who
are there? Those people built the valley
and they have a right to continue to work.
There are up to 18 small sawmills that employ up to 80 people. I welcome the Louisiana Pacific jobs to Swan
River, but I do not want to see the jobs that are in the bush right now, some
80 jobs, put out of business.
The
government tells us that there are millions of cubic metres of wood. There should be enough to ensure that the
loggers continue to run their sawmills and that Louisiana Pacific can operate
their mill, if there is all this wood.
That is all we want to know. We
want guarantees from the government that we will not have people who are
employed in the bush right now put out of business. You cannot do an exchange to put 80 people
out of work in the forest now and get 100 jobs in the mill. It is not a game. We have to be sure that the other jobs are
protected. The Minister of Agriculture
(Mr. Enns) says I am alone on this one.
I can assure you that my party is standing with me on this one.
Mr.
Speaker, this is a major project for the Swan River area and, for it to be
done, it has to be done right, and we have to look at all the implications of
this project. I have listed the local
loggers and the local loggers concern has to be addressed. The Minister of Natural Resources (Mr.
Driedger) says he will address it. I
hope that he will very soon because, as he knows, they have to know by the 1st
of May so their forest management plans can be worked into the other plans of
the area. I hope he will take that into
consideration.
The
concerns of aboriginal people also have to be addressed. In the throne speech, we have here a
discussion of‑‑I realize they have not said very much about
aboriginal people, but they did say they were going to work on treaty land
entitlement and traditional lands. This
is an opportunity to show that they stand behind what they are saying. If you are going to do it, get out there and
meet with these people and set aside the concerns they have so we can get on
with this project. This government is
not doing a very good job on this.
* (1620)
Mr.
Speaker, there is another area of concern.
The amount of wood that will be required for this mill is somewhere
around 80 million cubic metres, and anybody that is familiar with the Swan
River area knows that a good portion of this aspen is on the slope of the Duck
and the Porcupine Mountains. If you will
remember, we had a serious flood last year, and we want assurances that this
wood is going to be harvested in a sustainable way. We do not want to see the wood cut so quickly
that there is going to be flooding. Let
us have the review. Let us have the
review of the forest.
Let
us have the forest management review so that we can have assurances that this
wood is not going to be cut too quickly.
Let us deal with that. The
government, if they are so sure of their figures, would just come forward, do
the review, deal with it and assure the people that there is a long‑term
wood supply there, that it will be harvested sustainedly, and we will have jobs
from this plant for the next 100 years, because, Mr. Speaker, that is what I
hope will happen. I hope that all of
these concerns can be addressed, and people have to have these questions
answered and the government should not be afraid.
This
government continues to talk about sustainable development in forestry, a co‑operative
federal‑provincial management plan providing a comprehensive 20‑year
strategy in support of sustainable development in Manitoba forest
resources. If you are going to put a
sustainable plan together, do the assessment on the forest. That is what we are asking. Do an assessment of the plant and do an
assessment of the forest. Do it together
to assure the people that everything is going to be okay.
The
other concern is: Are there going to be
emissions from the plant that are going to pollute the air? I have talked to many people and done a lot
of work on this, and I am quite confident that there is the equipment available
that can control any pollution from the plant.
Again, the environmental assessment on that plant has to be done, and
this government has to put in regulations to ensure that the air supply is
safe.
The
Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings) indicated that this company has promised
us a state‑of‑the‑art plant.
He will put in regulations that will give us strong regulations, and the
company can either live with those regulations or go. I agree with the minister on that. He has to put in the regulations that will
control the pollution in the air to keep the environment safe for people who
live in the area. That is the
responsibility of the government, and I hope that they will put in very strong
regulations.
I
have a concern, and I have expressed this to the Minister of Environment, that
he has decided to split the review and review the plant separately and the
forest later. I indicated clearly to him
that we think that is a mistake. The
greatest impacts are going to be on the forest, and he should review that to
see that it is going to be harvested in a sustainable way and not impact on the
livelihood of the people that live there.
We would prefer that they would do a joint review. The government has decided otherwise. So be it.
That is what it will be. I hope
that there are not complications along the way because of it, because there
have been other cases when there have been split reviews that there have been
problems that have resulted, and it has gotten tied up in court.
(Mr.
Marcel Laurendeau, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)
We
would prefer that the government do everything up front. The government for some reason seems to have
gotten itself into a bind on this one with this June 15 deadline, and I am not
sure how firm that deadline is or how the government ever allowed itself to get
into a squeeze by the company, where the company is putting pressure on the
government to push forward the environmental review to allow them to proceed so
quickly. So I hope that the government
has been firm in their negotiations and will negotiate and give the best deal
for the people of Swan River. As I said,
Mr. Acting Speaker, we have long been awaiting jobs for your area.
I
sincerely regret that the government made such a mistake six years ago, when
they killed the Pennco deal, because we could have been harvesting that wood
for six years now, and we hear foresters saying that our wood supply, that
aspen, is decaying faster than it is growing.
Can you imagine the revenue we could have had for the area already, the
growth we could have had in six years?
The government made a very, very serious mistake in what they did by
signing over that cut area to Repap and delaying development in the Swan River
area.
So
they made one mistake. They also made a
mistake on Repap, because they promised Swan River people jobs, and those jobs
never did materialize. So we hope that
this time they will do it right. We hope
that they will ensure that we have good jobs, that the forest will be harvested
sustainedly and that these jobs will be long term, because, as I said, it is a
new project, and people have lots of concerns.
The
other thing that I feel very strongly about is, we have to have the
environmental hearings in the Swan River area.
It is the people in the Swan River area that are going to be impacted‑‑
Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of
Agriculture): Absolutely.
You ask for it, it will happen.
Take my word for that.
Ms. Wowchuk:
Thank you very much, sir. I
really appreciate it. The Minister of
Agriculture has given me his word that he will talk to the Minister of
Environment (Mr. Cummings) and ensure that the hearings are held in the Swan
River area, and I will take that message back to my community. Thank you very much for your support.
The
other area that has to be addressed for this plant to proceed, Mr. Acting
Speaker, is the whole railway, the Cowan subline. The Cowan subline was partly washed out
during the flood last summer, which I had mentioned earlier, and the CN decided
not to repair that line. Even though the
line is protected till the year 2000, we could not convince CN to repair the
line, and it has resulted in a change in service for people in the area as far
as those people who ship pulp and to the people that ship grain. So we are hoping that with the help of this
government, we can convince the federal government and CN that this line is
important to the area because of the plant being built and that they will
reinstate that line and have it repaired.
It will be beneficial to everyone, and I hope that we will see that
happen.
There
is going to be a tremendous amount of product shipped out of this plant, I
believe. They say as high as 15 cars of
OSB will be produced a day. That should
warrant enough traffic on the line to reopen it, then that would be providing
service into the other areas which no longer have the service.
I
think that in that we have to take into consideration that to ship on the Cowan
subline versus through the line in Saskatchewan is a lot cheaper for the
farmers in the area. I hope the Minister
of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) will take that into consideration and lobby to have
that line reinstated as well.
I
am sorry that the Minister of‑‑I cannot remember, he used to be
Minister of Health‑‑Energy and Mines has left, because he raised an
issue that has to be addressed. I am
really, really disappointed in the Premier of our province. I have to say that I cannot believe that he
would get involved in such petty politics as he did in a press release he put
out when he said, the NDP opposes a job in Swan River.
I
am really disappointed that the Premier would do such a thing because the
Premier is saying that the NDP is opposed to the construction of the OSB
plant. Nobody in the NDP caucus has ever
said, we are opposed to this plant. In
fact, we have lobbied very hard to get jobs to Swan River, and we welcome the
project, we welcome it.
* (1630)
I
have to tell you about a meeting I had in Swan River yesterday, and I want to
go back a little bit farther. When the
plant was being negotiated and the town council told me what was going on I
said, is there anything that I can do to help with this? They said, no, we would prefer to keep the
politics out of it and let us do it on our own.
And I agreed to that. I did not
get involved with the project at all, and I commended the people of Swan River
for the work that they did on the project.
Then
the Premier decided to take a slice off one of my colleagues, the member for
Radisson (Ms. Cerilli), because she booked a room in here for a group of people
who had some concerns. The people in
Swan River yesterday said, we do not want to make this political. Do not make this political. Well, who has made it the most political of
all? It is the Premier.
Mr.
Glen MacKenzie, who you are referring to in this letter, has agreed that he
will ask the Premier to back off, because it is the Premier who is bringing
more attention to this project than it needs.
This is silliness on the part of the Premier. He should never be putting such falsehoods
into the record, because no one in the NDP said that they were against this
project.
We
said, we welcome the project. We
recognize that this government is doing a terrible job at creating jobs, and we
have to take what we can get, and these are jobs that we want for the Swan
River area.
The
other area that the Premier talks about is the PMU industry. Nobody in the NDP caucus has said that we are
against the PMU. The Premier brought out
these comments about the PMU industry again and implies that the NDP is against
the PMU industry‑‑again, a pile of garbage. That is what this Premier is putting on the
record, garbage, because no one in the NDP has said we are against the PMU
industry.
Issues
have been raised on the environmental side of it whether there would be
emissions from the plant in‑‑and Ayerst. [interjection] No, we are
not like Liberals, that is for sure.
So
I think that this government should check their record and realize that we in
the NDP are not against it‑‑
An Honourable Member:
What is your position on the PMU operations?
Ms. Wowchuk:
The member for Osborne (Ms. McCormick) asked for my position. The PMU industry is very important to
Manitoba. It will create a tremendous
amount of jobs, and the NDP have said that those are good jobs.
An Honourable Member:
You support this?
Ms. Wowchuk:
Yes, we support the industry. Why
would we not support the PMU industry? I
can tell you that we have met with people in the PMU industry, and we have stated
our position very clearly that we are not connected to the animal rights
movement that is the group that is against the PMU industry.
I
wish some of these people would put more accurate information on the
record. They have tried to say that we
are against the jobs in Swan River‑‑false. We welcome the jobs to Swan River.
I
hope the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Driedger) will come through with
his commitment and assure us that those loggers who are concerned right now
about this project, concerned that they are going to be put out of business,
concerned that their sawmills are going to be shut down‑‑I hope
very soon that he will be able to address that.
I
hope you will encourage the Minister responsible for Native Affairs (Mr.
Praznik) to meet with the bands, because the bands also have some serious
concerns and want to know where they fit in with this deal. As you are dealing with the loggers since
there is a wood supply concern here‑‑the Minister of Natural
Resources I am speaking to right now‑‑I hope you will encourage the
Minister responsible for Native Affairs to also address the concerns of Native
people. These jobs can be good jobs, but
they have to be done sustainedly.
There
is one other area that has been raised as a concern, Mr. Acting Speaker. There are areas in the Duck Mountain and the
Porcupine mountain that are very fragile, very unique areas. I think about the Bell River Canyon, the
Armit River and a few other areas‑‑[interjection]
The Acting Speaker (Mr. Laurendeau):
Order, please. Could I ask the
honourable members wanting to carry on a conversation to do it in the loge or
out in the halls.
Ms. Wowchuk:
As I was saying, there are some very unique areas in the Duck Mountain
and the Porcupine mountain, the Bell River and the Roaring River Canyon and
those areas. Those areas have been
brought to the attention of the Minister of Natural Resources before. We would hope, with the increased amount of
logging that is going to go on in the area, that these areas can be designated
as special areas. I have put in a
private member's resolution and I hope that the minister and the government
will support that resolution because those are very unique areas and they have
to be protected.
In
closing, Mr. Acting Speaker, I again want to reiterate that to set the record
straight for those Conservative candidates who are getting so excited because
their nomination is set for June 15 and they are worried about my position, I
want to assure them that I welcome the plant to Swan River. I hope that this government will do it right,
that the concerns of local people and of the loggers and the aboriginal people
are addressed. I wish the government was
doing a full environmental review instead of a split review. I hope that does not cause problems, but they
are the government of the day. They have
chosen the split review. That is the way
we are going to go.
I
hope we are not causing problems‑‑so you can get on the phone and
tell your friends that you are so worried about that‑‑yes, I do
support the project coming to Swan River and I will be standing with the Swan
River people and ensuring that this government addresses the concerns that have
been raised and I will continue to stand with the people of Swan River. Thank you very much, Mr. Acting Speaker.
Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli):
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to begin by thanking you for the
opportunity to address this House in relation to the throne speech.
I
would also like to take this opportunity to welcome the newly elected
colleagues here in the House. I am
looking forward to working with them as we strive towards success in the
upcoming fifth session of the Legislature.
My honourable friends, Gary Kowalski from The Maples; Gord Mackintosh
from St. Johns; Norma McCormick, Osborne; Eric Robinson from Rupertsland and
Harry Schellenberg from Rossmere, welcome to the Manitoba Legislature. I am sure that you will find that
representing your constituency is the most rewarding and fulfilling experience
that any Manitoban could wish for.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, every year we spend endless hours here passing bills and
debating legislation. I cannot imagine
what it would be like if we did not have the services of our legislative Pages
and I want to wish them a warm welcome also.
To Anthony Augustine, to Karla Hinojosa, Joanne Jacyk, Jean LaFrance,
Shannon Summerfield and Norman Young, I look forward to working with all of you
in the present session. I am sure that
you will all find this to be a great learning experience, one that you will
look back on for many years to come.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, as I travel to the Legislature each day, I drive through my
constituency and cannot help but feel proud of the accomplishments of our
government. Over the past four years the
western world has been hard hit through the pressures of the global downturn in
the economy. Our government has managed
to create a stable economic environment and in turn has left Manitoba in a
position to go on to long‑term job growth and wealth creation as we
strive toward social economic prosperity.
Economic
stability, fiscal responsibility, enhanced infrastructure, these are all key
factors in luring private sector investment while enabling Manitobans to be
able to be more competitive in an ever‑expanding global market. Our government remains committed and will
continue to stand behind small businesses in this province. So through successful initiatives, such as
the Grow Bonds, the REDI program, the REA program, Vision Capital, we have all
seen examples of successful ventures and the fulfillment of many dreams.
* (1640)
Having a
government that rewards and recognizes successes is the greatest asset of any
province.
An Honourable Member:
How are the Grow Bonds coming?
Mr. Helwer:
Grow Bonds are very good actually.
I am glad you asked that question, because we have many Grow Bonds. We had a couple or three I guess in our
constituency. They have all worked very
well, and they are going very well. It
is a very good program.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, the Gimli constituency is a region of diverse industry and
culture. My constituents do not measure
a man or a woman by the size of his or her wallet. The Gimli constituents believe in the values
of hard work and determination. My
constituents do not ask for total equality through an enhanced welfare
state. All they ask for is the equality
of opportunity, while letting their individual efforts and talents make the
determination between success and failure.
None
is more evident than in the life of our Manitoba farmers. Great improvements have been made to ensure
that we do not erode the foundation of success on our Manitoba farms. The Manitoba Agricultural Credit Corporation
has made some recent changes and advancements to expand the eligibility. Therefore, the MACC has shown a commitment to
recognize successful farmers and ensure that the family farm will remain the
cornerstone of rural Manitoba.
This
government has taken the initiative to help and train and educate Manitoba
farmers in order to increased their productivity and to enhance crop
yields. So by offering programs such as
the pesticide dealer program, the custom applicator programs, we are working to
ensure that we continue to have the most advanced and efficient agribusinesses
in Canada.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, our government has always and always will listen to the
Manitoba farmers. The extension of the
GRIP program to help support the heart of rural Manitoba is a sterling example.
Remember
recently the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) announced an interim payment of
$55 million that will be going out to farmers for the 1993‑94 crop. This will also give our farmers the assurance
that this government will continue to stand behind the farmers 100 percent.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, our government has undertaken the initiative to reform the
health care system in Manitoba to ensure that Manitobans continue to receive
the best care in the world. In my
constituency, we have noticed considerable advancement in medical
services. For example, in Stonewall,
just last year, the minister approved the funding of a $9‑million
hospital. With the expanding population
base in this community due to the urban sprawl, we can guarantee the residents
of that community that they will have immediate access to some of the best
medical services that technology has to offer.
This new hospital will provide jobs while taking the welfare of its
residents into account.
Stonewall
has also benefitted from an expansion of the Rosewood Lodge personal care
home. Twenty additional beds will be
constructed and will provide the residents of Stonewall the option of staying
in their community with friends and family.
Our rural senior population has also received support in my own
community of Teulon, where 27 additional beds will be constructed at the
Goodwin Lodge personal care home.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, while our government has undertaken a complete review of the
health care system to provide a more efficient department, we have expanded on
the essential services deemed as being essential by the people of
Manitoba. Senior citizens are the
fastest growing population of the province, and it is imperative that seniors
receive the continuing support of their elected government. I have worked hard to gain funding for some
of the senior groups in our area, in Stonewall, Teulon, Stony Mountain, Gimli
and Matlock.
Just
recently, the community of Gimli, the New Horizon Club there had made a bid to
host the 1996 MSOS games in Gimli. This
would be a great event for the Interlake and for the community of Gimli to
host, because it will attract some 1,500 seniors in the 55‑plus
games. These games are always very well
attended by the seniors in Manitoba, and it would be great if we were given the
opportunity to host the 1996 in Gimli.
Senior citizens can rest assured that our government will help to make
their golden years and their greatest years [interjection] No, I cannot join
them yet. The member for St. Boniface
(Mr. Gaudry) asked me if I could join them yet, but no, I am sorry, I do not
fit in that category yet.
A
glowing example of the community sport in my constituency and throughout the
province is the Meals on Wheels program.
Thanks to the concerted efforts of hundreds of volunteers, we are able
to provide well‑balanced meals to those who cannot provide for
themselves, Mr. Acting Speaker. So I
want to commend all Manitobans to volunteer their time and their efforts to
this very worthwhile project.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, we are all aware that health care is the largest and, in many
ways, the most important social program.
Our government is committed to the need for a better organized system of
community‑based and institutional services. The overall health care system will be
improved and improved in a way that will ensure services for our children and
our grandchildren and a system that we can all afford in Manitoba.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, in my view, education is the window of opportunity and the
inherent right of every child in this province.
Education is an investment in the future, and the future looks bright in
my constituency.
Providing
some funding through the Community Places Program, the South Interlake Library
in Stonewall was able to build a new library.
This will enhance our access to information that is essential in the
learning process.
Recently
a heritage grant was provided also for the restoration of the Gimli Elementary
School, which was constructed in 1915.
This is a great heritage building that we should preserve, and I am glad
our government has seen fit to help this restoration program through the
Minister of Culture and Heritage.
Interactive
television was introduced in the Evergreen School Division last year. This is working very well and will enable our
children to reach beyond the horizon to acquire the wealth of knowledge.
This
is only the beginning, I am sure.
Starting in April our Minister of Education (Mr. Manness) will begin
holding a public forum to ask Manitobans what they want from their education
system. He is consulting with the
grassroots of the communities, the parents, the students, the teachers and the
school boards. Our minister is
consulting with all these groups to make the education standards better for the
province and affordable. We govern with
the belief that the public co‑operation will enable us to make the best
decisions when it comes to educating our children.
* (1650)
Mr.
Acting Speaker, jobs and economic growth are this government's No. 1
priority. Long‑term, secure and
satisfying jobs are what we will provide.
I stated earlier, economic stability, fiscal responsibility and enhanced
infrastructure are essential factors in luring private sector investment while
making Manitobans more competitive in the world market. This government has and will continue to do
just that.
I
think we have weathered the worst of the recessionary storm better than most
provinces. We have proven to be fiscally
responsible. We have managed to maintain
and even increase the support of our essential services while reducing our debt
load without realizing an increase in taxes.
Just
recently the Dominion Bond Rating Service has stated that we are one of the two
most fiscally responsible provinces in the country.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, the storm is over possibly, and we are prepared to make great
strides in the industry, trade and manufacturing sectors. This is more evident all the time. This has been an excellent year for
investment in the Gimli constituency.
The opposition is probably wondering, I will run through some of the
accomplishments that our government has made and some of the fine individuals
who have made a significant contribution to our community with the new
infrastructure program.
We
have taken the necessary steps to bring natural gas to some 23 communities in
Manitoba. Just recently here in the
Stonewall Argus, right on the front page they talk about the benefits of what
natural gas can do to assist the communities such as Teulon to attract some new
industries into the community and also to enhance the industries that we
already have there. The one industry
alone could probably gain as much as about $80,000 a year by installing natural
gas in their industry. So there is
significant improvement. The Stonewall
Argus is a good paper and provides a lot of good news.
We
have also provided some $270,000 to the Rural Municipality of St. Andrews for
the construction of a liquid waste disposal treatment centre facility at
Petersfield. This is an area where it
has a lot of tourists and a lot of campers, and this area has been growing
recently very fast. By providing a new
lagoon or a liquid waste disposal treatment centre this will certainly enhance
and help that area a great deal.
Just
recently through the sustainable development area we provided a grant to the
Stony Mountain Area Round Table to study the economic feasibility of the
abandoned Stony Mountain quarry. This
quarry has lain vacant for many years and this group will do a feasibility
study on what can be done to enhance, to improve the area where the quarrying
was being done many years ago.
Well,
tourism, and also there probably are some benefits that could be maybe provided
to the community. Maybe a golf course in
the quarry area or something of that nature would certainly enhance that
community, and since it is in close proximity to Winnipeg probably there are
many things that can be done with that quarry, so I look forward to the results
of that study.
Oak Hammock‑‑I
will get to that in a little while.
We
have also provided some funding for the Rural Municipality of St. Andrews in
the area of the St. Andrews Airport. The
St. Andrews council have decided to subdivide some area there and to develop an
industrial park in close proximity to the St. Andrews Airport. This is because we have a number of
industries already located there and there is a demand for property in that
area for industries and companies that want to do some business with the airport
and provide some small manufacturing firms some property and services in that
area. We already have six interested
companies that have shown interest in some properties there and I think we will
see some development there in the not too distant future.
So
when we talk about infrastructure assistance this is a good example of what can
be done by working together with the federal government, the provincial
government and the municipalities to provide services for an industrial park
such as this so that they can grow and expand, businesses can grow and expand
and provide employment for our young people.
We
have also, under the infrastructure program, allotted some funds to the Rural
Municipality of Rockwood for a drainage program. During last year's heavy rainstorms and
flooding we had a lot of problems, a lot of good farmland, a lot of crops were
flooded. Therefore, there is a lot of
drainage that has to be done‑‑
An Honourable Member:
But the ducks like water.
Mr. Helwer:
Well, ducks like water, but this is an area that is good farmland and
has to be drained to get the water off the farmland so that farmers can survive
also.
Also,
the Rural Municipality of Rockwood is going to have a road building
program. They have also been awarded
some grant under the infrastructure program for some paving and some work in
the south end of the municipality. This
is in an area of the municipality that is growing fast. There have been a great number of building
permits in the past, and it is really developing quite fast as a rural area for
people wanting to build large homes on five acres and things of that nature
because of its close proximity to Winnipeg.
We have a good highway on No. 7 already, but some of the crossroads have
to be improved, and I am glad to see the rural municipality is going to do
this.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, we have also provided some infrastructure money to the Village
of Teulon for the extension of waste water sewer lines. This will help that community grow and expand
and open up some new areas to development also.
This is another great project that we are really pleased to see.
Also
we will have a fairly aggressive highway project in our constituency. Because of last year's rain and wet weather
and poor road building conditions, some of the work could not get done last
year. We hope that the contractors this
year will be able to complete their projects on Highway No. 8 and No. 9. This will certainly help the areas of Gimli
and Winnipeg Beach and areas north on Highway 8, to Hecla Island and that
area. That highway, certainly we have
been waiting a long time for work on that highway, and getting that one
upgraded will certainly help the tourist areas in that area of the province.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, the groundwork is set, and we are already realizing immediate feedback
from small business in our area. When
businesses speak, they speak in terms of investment and jobs, and as a result
of our initiative, businesses are doing just that.
* (1700)
Mr.
Acting Speaker, our government is committed to rural Manitoba and securing a
strong future for our children. The
Rural Economic Development Initiative, REDI, is another program that has proven
to be very successful in my constituency, and the program has created a channel
to portion lottery funds revenue into rural Manitoba to encourage and support
economic development. These funds are
available, of course, to local governments as well as regional economic
organizations.
Also,
through the Rural Entrepreneurial Assistance Program, REA, the provincial
government can provide loan guarantees to small businesses for small and home‑based
businesses in rural Manitoba. The sale
of Grow Bonds has proved to be an instrument to economic growth in rural
Manitoba.
The
former government tried to buy jobs whereas we are assisting the private sector
in providing long‑term, sustainable jobs, jobs that are not dependent on
the contributions of Manitoba taxpayers.
So far in Manitoba there have been 10 Grow Bonds projects that have been
issued to date, totalling some $3.4 million and generating some $125 million in
total investment, as well as creating more than 225 jobs in rural
Manitoba. This only proves that
Manitobans will support rural ideas.
As
an example, in Stonewall, the Quantum Electro Dynamics has begun operations due
in part to a REDI grant there of $9,286 of development support.
We
have attracted a company that can provide sustainable jobs and have a positive
impact on our local community. As the
result of some $196,000 investment, Black Cat Blades has opened up just north
of Selkirk and is manufacturing construction blades and equipment. Black Cat Blades started with providing 25
jobs, and since that time, they have exceeded their expectations and will
provide more jobs. This type of industry
also fits in well with another industry that is doing very well in the Selkirk
area, in the Rural Municipality of St. Andrews, the Manitoba Rolling Mills.
This
type of industry, with the Black Cat Blades, falls in line with‑‑they
will be getting their steel from the Manitoba Rolling Mills to make a completed
project of grader blades and blades for front‑end loaders, for buckets
and things of that nature. That not only
provides direct jobs through the manufacturing process, but it also provides
secondary jobs through the steel mills, at the Manitoba Rolling Mills. These are excellent industries and excellent
companies to come in to provide jobs for Manitobans.
Sterling
Press is another new company in Selkirk and is another excellent example of how
Grow Bonds can be diverted to lure investment within a region. Through a total investment there of some
$430,000 on the part of Sterling Press, they will produce retail packaging
boxes and provide some 18 new jobs in the area.
They are also doing very well, and they will be looking at expanding in
the near future also.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, this is how you create jobs.
You do not go out and buy them with public funds, like my friends in the
opposition wanted to do. You create long‑term
sustainable jobs by working closely with small business to ensure that they
have the economic base required to be successful. My constituency is living proof that this
government and business can work together for the betterment of tomorrow and
for the providing of jobs for our young people.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, economic growth and change is evident in my constituency and in
Stonewall and the surrounding area. They
have realized some 154 new building permits being issued for construction of
new homes. I must say that I did not
take the government to spend millions of dollars to realize the benefits of
this proportion. All that was required
was for the government to provide a low crime rate, a low tax rate and the
facilities required to carry on a productive life. This throne speech addresses all those
factors that we look to for the same to happen throughout the province.
Last
year the town of Stonewall was the fastest growing community in Manitoba. I am sure this year the town of Stonewall
will achieve that again, but the area around Stonewall and the south end of
Rockwood is an excellent area for expansion in rural residential areas and
there are many new homes being built.
Also
this afternoon, at lunchtime today I had the pleasure of officiating at the opening
of a new and enhanced, expanded Gimli Credit Union. They had a building expansion program and
also remodelled their facilities there in Gimli. This credit union is an example of what can
be done. They have tripled their
business in the last 10 years, and they continue to grow and expand their
business and provide the community of Gimli with the financial services that
are required there.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, as we head toward the 21st Century, the environment is on the
minds of all of us. This throne speech
shows that our government cares about the environment and will continue to work
toward its preservation. Our government
is planning a 20‑year strategy in support of the sustainable development
of Manitoba's forest resources. We will
ensure that environment will remain a priority of this government. In my constituency, we have noticed great
enhancements in the restoration and preservation of our wetlands as well as
increasing awareness of our environmental education of our children and the general
public.
In
my constituency alone we have three round tables, in Stonewall, Gimli and in
Stony Mountain. All these round tables
have been working very hard and have provided a report for the community
whereby they identify the things that are required, the facilities, the
improvements that have to be made to the community to enhance the sustainable
growth of the community. These round
tables have been a great benefit to these three communities, and I would hope
that more of the communities in my constituency would take advantage of the
round tables and use them.
The
Oak Hammock Marsh conservation area opened last year to the public, and my
friend the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns), the former Minister of Natural
Resources, was there for the opening.
This is a great facility, located just north of Winnipeg here. I cannot think of a better place to have our
children educated as to the concerns of our marshlands. I am sure that the conservation centre will
realize the success of our other centres, such as Fort Whyte Centre, as well as
playing an educational role. Oak Hammock
will conduct research in regard to the preservation of our marshlands.
An Honourable Member:
There are millions.
Mr. Helwer:
Yes, there are millions of ducks and geese in the area, even though the
ice has not gone off all the marshlands yet.
There is still ice there, but there are lots of geese and ducks. They are finding enough water and food. It is great to have them back.
In
the Stonewall Argus this week, they talk about a new birdhouse that has been
developed in the marsh there, and this is enhancing the ducks and the geese to
the nesting grounds, one of the best areas, I think, in Canada really or North
America for nesting of geese and ducks.
It is a great asset to our community and to Manitoba.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, we are not only in support of the construction of this
facility, but we also continue to support the ongoing projects there. As an example, we have provided assistance
for the Manitoba purple strife project.
This project, and many others there, will provide the valuable
information for the betterment of future generations.
While
I am on the topic of Oak Hammock, last year, they celebrated their first
waterfowl festival in May. This year
they will be celebrating their second annual waterfowl festival. This attracts people from far and wide, and a
lot of visitors come to visit the Oak Hammock area during this waterfowl
festival and the Stonewall area and the Quarry Park area of Stonewall. These are great tourist attractions. People come from far and wide, from the U.S.
and other provinces, to take part in the waterfowl festival. I want to wish them well, and I hope they
have a successful second waterfowl festival in mid‑May this year.
Mr.
Acting Speaker, my constituency is no longer one that is solely dependent on
the natural resources that we have to offer.
In this, the year of the family, recreation facilities and entertaining
events are important. Gimli and the
surrounding area continues to grow as a recreation haven. International events, such as the World
Boardsailing Championships, Sunfest, Sun Country, will bring a diverse range of
people who enjoy the fine facilities that Gimli has to offer. Gimli has also proven to be a compliant community,
as it hosted the regional winter games this past winter and is the annual host
of the Icelandic Festival event every August long weekend.
As
well as hosting these significant recreational events, Gimli will be hosting
the Western Premiers' Conference in mid‑May. These events will continue to give Gimli
added exposure on a national perspective.
* (1710)
Through
beach development, Winnipeg Beach is returning to be a favourite summer resort area
for many Manitobans through grassroots community involvement and provincial
guidance. Winnipeg Beach will once again
prosper as it did in the early '40s. So
the vitality and enthusiasm exuded in my community is always prevalent in the
various festivals that we host.
Some
of the festivals that we host are certainly deserving of mention. The Festival on the Red in Selkirk; the
Winnipeg Beach Boardwalk Days; the Rusalka annual Ukrainian festival; Teulon
fair and rodeo; the Icelandic Festival also attracts a lot of visitors from
many parts of Canada and the United States.
Also
this year the Village of Teulon is celebrating their 75th anniversary of
incorporation. They were incorporated in
1919, and I am really pleased to see that this community will be hosting a
homecoming and many events in mid‑July.
I will be glad to take part in those events in the village of Teulon
because, as the former mayor of that community, I am very proud to see that
community grow and prosper, and I want to wish them well on their 75th
anniversary.
So
my constituency is second to none when it comes to community pride and
spirit. Mr. Acting Speaker, unlike my
friend the Leader of the Second Opposition there, we are not following the
ideals of Adam Smith and his invisible hand theory. All he has to do is listen to any part of my
speech and he will see that we are involved and we do care and are enacting
constructive change.
I
am very proud of the accomplishments of our Premier (Mr. Filmon) and our
government. Since coming to office we
have created a social climate that is in a great position to enhance economic
growth into 1995 and into the year 2000.
We have lowered the provincial debt load without increasing taxes, and
this throne speech indicates that we are committed to helping Manitobans
achieve their most important goals.
So thank you,
Mr. Acting Speaker, for the opportunity to address the throne speech this
afternoon.
Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood):
Mr. Acting Speaker, an historian in the 19th Century, James Robinson,
once referred to the term "partisanship." He said that partisanship is our great
curse. We too readily assume that
everything has two sides and that it is our duty to be on one or the other.
I
think there are some true words to that statement about partisanship and as we
look over our democratic process and our political process over the last
century, I think we are moving away from some of the partisanship. I hope that we are actually. Although if the debate in this House earlier
on today, after Question Period, is any indication of that, I do not think we
have gone too far, and I would hope that.
I was much pleased that at least the schools had left the Chamber while
that debate resumed, but I do think we need to move away a bit from partisanship.
I
was speaking to a group of seniors today in my constituency and I talked about
how it was necessary, as an opposition party, to work towards the goal of
ensuring that Manitobans have the best programs and services. I know that is the goal of the government,
and I know that is the goal of the official opposition. We are all here for the same purpose,
although we oftentimes go about it in different ways. So I was very pleased when the seniors
mentioned to me that they were pleased that when I talked about the
government's reform plan, the initial document, that I said we had supported
that here in the Legislature.
I
actually got some comments from the seniors saying, it is nice to see a common‑sense
approach, where in fact although you are opposition, to stand up and attack the
government and continually criticize, what does that really accomplish in the
end? Does that really make a service
better for a Manitoban here in this province?
I would suggest it does not. If
we can work together, if we can work on ideas and come forth with sometimes
compromises or better solutions, I think the people of Manitoba are much better
served.
Now,
Mr. Acting Speaker, there is no question that partisanship is part of
politics. We have a three‑party
system in this province, and there is no question that as we stand in the
Legislature and we debate our ideas, that there is a clash oftentimes of
ideas. There is a clash of
philosophies. There is oftentimes a
clash of who the constituents are that we represent, but I still say that we
are here to work towards the same goal and that is for the betterment of all
Manitobans.
I
also believe that the nature of working in this House over the last number of
years, and certainly over the last 20 and 30 years, that in fact it has changed
to some extent and that we are starting to see more co‑operation and more
working together.
I
think as an elected member, and in my case of Crescentwood, if I have a
constituent who comes to me with an issue, if I can go and talk to that
minister and solve that problem as opposed to standing up in the House and
attacking, that is what I am here to do, to help that constituent out.
The
nature of democracy in this country lends itself so that each of us are here to
represent our own constituencies, and so if we can refer to democracy as really
governing by discussion, then democracy only becomes effective sometimes if we
can stop the people from talking.
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
That
is where the importance of the Speaker's role lies, and to you, Mr. Speaker,
let me welcome you back into the Chair.
With the dynamics being such as they are in this House, particularly
after the result of the last by‑elections, with some seat changes, your
role is certainly a difficult one. It is
an onerous one, but I have every faith that you will carry out your duties with
the usual skill, definitely with grace and certainly with impartiality, as
beholds your position, and which you carry out so well. I am looking very forward to working with you
in this Chamber during this session.
Let
me also congratulate Madam Deputy Speaker.
Let me say again that as she assumes the Chair, her role is very much
the same as an onerous one. As well, I
am sure she will carry out her duties with skill and with impartiality.
I
would also like to welcome the six new Pages to this House. I think to date, in the last few days, they
have done a tremendous job. I hope they
will look on this experience as a learning experience, and I hope it will
continue to interest them in politics in this province. I thank them very much for their work to date
and the work they still have to do.
* (1720)
I
would also like to welcome the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly staff, the
Chamber staff for all the work they have done and are about to do. Certainly oftentimes we do not recognize
these people. We appreciate their
support, their advice and their guidance.
I
would be remiss if I did not mention the Hansard staff, who must sort out all
the "ahs" and the "ums" and the unusual phrases and
probably, in many cases, incomprehensible sentences. I hope they smile when they read this as they
are working late into the night.
Also,
let me welcome all members back to the Chamber, but particularly, as speakers
have before me, to welcome the new members to the House. I know that in all of the campaigns that were
fought in the summer, they were well‑fought campaigns. There were candidates from all parties who
were of excellent calibre, and they all deserve credit. We certainly welcome to the House the MLAs
for Osborne (Ms. McCormick) and The Maples (Mr. Kowalski), who I am very
pleased have joined our caucus.
I
oftentimes like to tease the member for The Maples, who of course, most of his
career was that of a City of Winnipeg police officer. At that time, he always had a partner usually
in the cruiser car. Little did he know
that when he joined the Legislative Assembly and became a member, because of
the shortage of space in this building, he would still have to have a
partner. I think that as politicians we
always have to be able to laugh at ourselves.
Of course, the joke going around our caucus with the MLA from The Maples
and the MLA for Crescentwood (Ms. Gray) is that rather than our names on the
door in the front, it should say "law and disorder."
Let
me also welcome three new members of the official opposition caucus, the MLA
for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson), the MLA for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) and the
MLA for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg).
I
am very pleased that all of our new members have had an opportunity to get up
in Question Period and put their thoughts forward. I give them credit. I certainly know when I stood in the House
for the first time it was a very overwhelming experience, shall we say, and I
give them all credit for doing a good job and I am sure they will continue to
do that as they represent their constituents in this House.
I
think we should all remember as we go into this session that politics are
always cyclical and what goes around comes around. I think it behooves us to treat each other
with respect as we oftentimes clash ideas.
We will have many, many discussions over the next many, many hours as we
go into the spending Estimates and as we discuss the throne speech and the
budget.
Before
I refer to the throne speech, I would just like to thank the constituents of
Crescentwood for their continued support of myself. It is a very vibrant community, that of Crescentwood,
and certainly one of the main attractions physically of that community is
Corydon Avenue. Again, once we have
summer weather it is a vibrant community.
I look forward to meeting with many constituents, and I thank them again
for their support and for the concerns that they have raised with me and for
the issues they continue to bring to my attention.
Philip
Snowden, a Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1924, once said that it would
probably be desirable if every government, when it came to power, should have
its old speeches burned. There may be a
good point to that, that the Exchequer talked about.
When
we look at the throne speech that this government presented last week, I think
perhaps they should have burned their old throne speeches so they could not
have copied, in some cases verbatim, some of the ideas from those throne
speeches so they had to actually be creative and come out with a few new ideas.
Now,
there are some ideas in the throne speech and there are some things in the
throne speech which we support. The
first area that I would like to speak on is in the area of health care and
health care reform. There is no question
that when this government brought forward their health care reform document in
1992, we supported the principles that were represented in that document. It would be very, very difficult for anyone I
believe in this province, except at that time the official opposition, to
actually disagree with the principles that were outlined there. We had some hope that the government would be
true to their document, would actually start implementing the principles as
they had outlined them.
One
of those key principles was consultation.
Consultation with consumers, consultation with health care
professionals, be they nurses, be they occupational therapists, be they
physicians. We had hoped the government
would do that, but it became very apparent as we began meeting with these very
professionals that in fact these people felt left out and that these people
felt that they were not consulted.
We
recognize that there were committees and groups in the St. Boniface Hospital,
in the Health Sciences Centre who supposedly were working toward coming up with
suggestions and solutions on how they could reform the health care system in
their institution, how they could make it more efficient. Unfortunately, a lot of these staff, the
comments that we were getting back felt that they really were not real
participants in that process. Yes, they
sat on committees, but there seemed to be a feeling that a lot of the ideas had
already been predetermined and that they were really there to sort of rubber‑stamp
it.
We
also had situations where a variety of staff who were involved in those
committees would be sitting on the same committees with, let us say, their
immediate supervisor, who might be a physician, and some of these staff felt
intimidated about making suggestions that might affect their supervisor's
job. So there were some problems with that
process, and I am not quite sure how successful the projects at Health Sciences
Centre and St. Boniface have been.
We
also feel that the government at that time did not do as good a job as they
could have in consulting with other organizations, be they the Manitoba Nurses'
Union, Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses, other consumer groups. I would hope that with the new Minister of
Health that at least we have some renewed hope that in fact there will be true
consultation as we move along in health reform.
It
is actually quite interesting to note that once the hospitals have come up with
these recommendations that in fact the worst thing that the hospitals and the
actual staff in the hospitals think that could happen is that with the new
minister we will have a complete stop in health reform. There are a lot of nurses and other
professionals in the hospitals who want to see some of these changes and
recommendations go ahead, and right now there is a standstill and there is a
stall, and it is really causing a lot of low staff morale.
So
contrary to what the NDP is saying, let us stop everything and let us halt,
that is not what staff are saying in the hospitals. They want to see some of these changes
occur. They want to see some of the
reforms go ahead because they feel they want to know what their future is. Will they have a job at the hospital? Will their job change? So it is going to be very important that the
minister take a stand and allow the hospitals to actually move ahead with some
of these reforms, and some of the reforms and some of the suggested changes are
good ones.
The
other principle in the health care reform which is mentioned by this government
was that we were going to see an expansion of community‑based
services. Now, I have always supported
an expansion of community‑based services in health care, and those
services include things like an expansion of home care. What we have seen, however, is the
government, and I am not sure if the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) is
actually aware of this, what we have seen is actually a reining in of home care
services, and to this very day we still have staff in the department who are
telling their workers who are passing that on to the clients who are on home
care and saying, we have to be careful how much service we provide to you
because in fact dollars are a concern.
So rather than looking at an individual situation and saying, this
person needs a nurse once a week, this person needs some homemaking assistance,
what the clients are saying, the individuals out in the community, they are
saying, we are more concerned about dollars and how much money we are spending
on individual people as opposed to really ensuring that someone gets the right
service, and that is the wrong way to go about it. It is unfortunate that the staff in the
bureaucracy are feeling that they need to pass that message on and that they
are letting the consumers out there know that budgets and dollars are the
bottom line as opposed to service.
So
I would hope that the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) would take note of these
suggestions, talk to his people in the Department of Health, particularly in
the Home Care Program, and I would hope that he would see or assist an attitude
change in that area. I would also like
the Minister of Health to actually review the philosophy and the background
behind the Home Care Program.
I
think, when it was established in the early '70s, our society was different
then than it is in the '90s. We had more
families where one of the parents would be a stay‑at‑home parent. We had less children that were working part‑time
jobs outside the home. Families had more
disposable time in terms of being able to do activities. That has changed over the course of the last
15 or so years, but yet the Home Care Program and the philosophy behind the
Home Care Program has not kept up with '90s and with '90s families. I think the Minister of Health would do well
if he could look at that entire program, because I think what we want to see is
an expansion of home care and expansion of support services for people in their
own home. We do not want to see a
decrease, and that is what we have seen to date. So I hope the minister will review that
program.
I
was pleased in the throne speech that the minister talked about support
services to seniors‑‑
* (1730)
Mr. Speaker:
Order, please. Pursuant to Rule
35(2), I am interrupting the proceedings in order to put the question on the
motion of the honourable Leader of the Second Opposition party (Mr. Edwards),
that is, a subamendment to the motion for an address in reply to the Speech
from the Throne, which is:
1. this government has failed to address the
needs of Manitobans by not formulating a strategy on capital including public
bond expansion and the establishment of a prairie stock exchange;
2. this government has failed to address the
needs of unemployed and underemployed Manitobans by failing to create training
initiatives to encourage Manitoba business to offer training to workers and has
failed to offer programs to train our young people;
3. this government has failed to offer any
initiatives to kickstart Manitoba's economy such as a three percent break on
provincial sales tax for three months, or an increase in Manitoba's minimum
wage to at least meet the national average;
4. the government continues to fail students at
all levels through cutbacks to school divisions, weakening of curriculum and
under funding of community colleges; and
5. this government has failed to provide
leadership in managing health care change, and continues to allow the citizens
of Manitoba to be short‑changed in the provision of health care.
Is it the
pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?
All those in favour of the motion, please say yea.
Some Honourable Members:
Yea.
Mr. Speaker: All those opposed,
please say nay.
Some Honourable Members:
Nay.
Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the
Nays have it.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Second Opposition House Leader):
Yeas and Nays, Mr. Speaker.
Division
Mr. Speaker: A recorded vote
having been requested, call in the members.
A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as
follows:
Yeas
Ashton, Barrett, Carstairs, Cerilli,
Chomiak, Dewar, Doer, Edwards, Evans (Brandon East), Evans (Interlake),
Friesen, Gaudry, Gray, Hickes, Kowalski, Lamoureux, Lathlin, Mackintosh,
Maloway, Martindale, McCormick, Plohman, Reid, Robinson, Santos, Schellenberg,
Storie, Wowchuk.
Nays
Cummings, Dacquay, Derkach, Downey,
Driedger, Ducharme, Enns, Ernst, Filmon, Findlay, Gilleshammer, Helwer,
Laurendeau, Manness, McAlpine, McCrae, McIntosh, Mitchelson, Orchard,
Pallister, Penner, Praznik, Reimer, Render, Rose, Stefanson, Vodrey, Sveinson.
Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):
Yeas 28, Nays 28.
Mr. Speaker:
Where the Speaker is required to exercise a casting vote, there are
several principles to be considered.
Among these is a concept that a significant decision should not be taken
except by a clear majority of the House.
In deciding how to vote, I was unable to find any precisely relevant
Manitoba or Canadian precedents.
* (1740)
Indeed,
occasions on which any Commonwealth Speaker has been required to exercise a
casting vote on a motion of nonconfidence are extremely rare. Consequently, I have been guided by the 1859
precedent of Speaker Denison of the United Kingdom House of Commons, who
concluded that if called upon to exercise a casting vote on an amendment to the
motion for an address in reply to the Speech from the Throne, he would vote
against it and thus avoid committing the House by his one vote to a conclusive
judgment.
Therefore,
so that a decision to adopt the subamendment, which should only be taken by a
clear majority of the House, will not be taken merely by the casting vote of its
presiding officer, I am voting against the subamendment.
I declare the
motion lost.
Is it the
will of the House to call it six o'clock?
Six o'clock.
The hour
being 6 p.m., this House now adjourns and stands adjourned until 10 a.m.
tomorrow (Friday).