LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Tuesday, December 8,
1992
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING PETITIONS
Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, I beg to presentthe petition of
W.J. Karle, J.P. Karle, Thom Irving and others,requesting the government of
Mr. Speaker: I have
reviewed the petition of the honourablemember for
To the Legislature of the
WHEREAS each year smoke from stubble burning descends
uponthe
WHEREAS the Parents Support Group of Children with Asthma
haslong criticized the harmful effects of stubble burning; and
WHEREAS the smoke caused from stubble burning is not
healthyfor the general public and tends to aggravate the problems ofasthma
sufferers and people with chronic lung problems; and
WHEREAS alternative practices to stubble burning
arenecessitated by the fact that the smoke can place some people inlife‑threatening
situations; and
WHEREAS the 1987 Clean Environment Commission Report
onPublic Hearings, "Investigation of Smoke Problems fromAgriculture Crop
Residue and Peatland Burning," contained therecommendation that a review
of the crop residue burningsituation be conducted in five years' time,
including are‑examination of the necessity for legislated regulatory
control.
THEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the
LegislativeAssembly will urge the government of
INTRODUCTION OF BILLS
Bill 208‑The
Workers Compensation Amendment Act
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by themember
for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli), that Bill 208, The WorkersCompensation Amendment
Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur lesaccidents du travail, be introduced and that
the same be nowreceived and read a first time.
Motion presented.
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(1335)
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, this bill is designedto
recognize the occupational health hazards encountered byfirefighters in the
performance of their duties while protectingthe lives and property of
Manitobans.
Medical studies have shown that there is a greater
incidenceof heart injury and injuries to the lungs, brains and kidneys
offirefighters than for any other compatible profession.Firefighters were
covered for such work‑related injuries untilWorkers Compensation
regulations were struck down by Justice Lyonin 1988, due to the lack of
specific legislation. This billprovides
the specifics, Mr. Speaker.
This firefighter protection bill has been extensively
debatedby all members wishing to do so in the last session of theLegislature
and was, except for procedure, nearly passed atcommittee.
I am sure that all members support firefighters and
wouldwish to move this bill forward with a minimum of debate. Thankyou, Mr. Speaker.
Motion agreed to.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to
Oral Questions, may I direct the attentionof honourable members to the gallery,
where we have with us thisafternoon, from the
Also this afternoon, we have from the
On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to
welcomeyou here this afternoon.
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Decentralization
Criteria
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, myquestion is to the First
Minister.
The government is proceeding with their
decentralizationprograms and having announcements being made by various
cabinetministers at various photo opportunities almost on aweekend‑by‑weekend
basis.
Some Honourable Members:
Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please.
Mr. Doer: We are
obviously hitting a raw nerve, Mr. Speaker.
The government has proceeded with decisions to announce
26jobs in Carman and deliver 31 jobs. It
has proceeded to announcejobs in Winkler and deliver those jobs. It has proceeded toannounce various jobs and
even exceed that in some communitiesheld by Conservative cabinet ministers.
On the other hand, communities with higher unemployment,
withjust the same kind of economic needs, if not greater economicneeds, outside
of
I would like to ask the Premier: What criteria are hisgovernment using in the
decentralization program that he hasimplemented?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the criteria involve acommon‑sense
analysis of what services can be provided bygovernment at least as efficiently
and effectively outside thecity of
We have steadfastly said that if we lack either
thetechnology or the ability to provide the services as efficientlyif not more
efficiently and effectively in the host community,then obviously we cannot
transfer the jobs into the hostcommunity.
Consequently, every individual decision has beenbased on that kind of
analysis, and we have proceeded, as themember has well documented, to
decentralize more than 550 jobsnow throughout the
Mr. Doer: Mr.
Speaker, we have decisions being cancelled inareas of higher unemployment, in
northern
I would like to know from the Premier: Are the criteriapolitical considerations of
the Conservative front benches or theeconomic considerations in
Mr. Filmon: The
commitments that we have undertaken to northern
Mr. Doer: The
Premier quotes Flin Flon; he should note thatthere were 24 jobs promised, seven
delivered, and 12 jobs lost sofar in Flin Flon.
I would like to ask the Premier: He has argued for fairnesswith the Prime
Minister; he has argued that
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Mr. Filmon: Mr.
Speaker, we will talk about intellectualconsistency and the New Democrats. That is a contradiction interms. The New Democrats may want to judge us based
on theircriteria, and we will not accept that judgment. They playedpolitics in everything they did,
and we will not do that. Thatis why we
have placed jobs in Thompson, that is why we haveplaced jobs in Flin Flon, that
is why we have placed jobsthroughout this province, in Brandon East and in many
areas thatare not represented by members on this side of the House, becausewe
are doing it in the interests of fairness, we are doing it inthe interest of
consistency, which is more than I can say for mycolleague opposite.
Mr. Doer: I have a
new question for the Premier, and I want totable a memo from the clerk of
cabinet, who works directly forthe Premier, to the co‑ordinator of
decentralization. I wouldlike to quote
from that memo that states, quote: The
HonourableJim Downey brought a provincial map showing locations ofdecentralized
operations to cabinet. Please prepare a
similarmap using a provincial constituency map as the base for showingthe
proposed decentralization moves.
I would like to ask the Premier: Is this the criterion thePremier actually
used and instructed his whole government to dopre‑election in 1990 in
terms of decisions of this government?
Mr. Filmon: I cannot
believe that the member would even put thatforward when he knows that we have
put jobs in Dauphin, we haveput jobs in Thompson, we have put jobs in Flin
Flon, we have putjobs in Brandon East, we have put jobs in Selkirk. We have putjobs in all of these areas that
are not Conservative seats. Themember
opposite has totally destroyed his own argument by virtueof the information
that we have provided for him. It is
absolutenonsense.
Mr. Doer: Mr.
Speaker, when the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) andthe co‑chair of the
election planning committee bring a map tocabinet, that is not good enough for
the Premier because ageographic map is not good enough for their cabinet. They need aconstituency map before the
election.
How does the Premier justify instructing the Civil
Servicethrough the clerk of cabinet to prepare a constituency map, andhow can
he say and stand up in this House and not admit that thiswas a political
decision from Day One? The cancellation
of jobsin rural
Mr. Filmon: Mr.
Speaker, because we anticipated that we wouldget this kind of foolish argument
from the member for Concordia(Mr. Doer), we wanted to make sure that we had the
evidence todemonstrate that we had put jobs in Thompson, that we had putjobs in
Flin Flon, that we had put jobs in Dauphin, that we hadput jobs in Selkirk,
that we had put jobs in Brandon East,because we knew exactly the kind of
foolish argument that hewould put forward.
Mr. Doer: Mr.
Speaker, he did in fact promise pre‑election jobsin Dauphin, and then he
cancelled them after the election.
Hepromised 34 before the election, 60 of them lost after theelection;
promised jobs in Flin Flon, 24 before the election,seven were delivered, 12
were cancelled after the election;promised jobs in The Pas, six were delivered,
19 jobs were lost.
What are the criteria this Premier is using? He is usingpartisan, political interference
in the delivery of publicservices in this province. This memo proves that this Premierwas only
interested in his own re‑election, not interested in theeconomic well‑being
of Manitobans throughout this province.
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Mr. Filmon: Mr.
Speaker, the member opposite comes forward withabsolute balderdash. The reality is that there are manycommunities
that have not got the jobs that have been promised,one being
Video Lottery Terminals
Legion Participation
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
This government's "anything goes" gambling
policy is hurtinga great number of Manitobans.
In fact, we have one legion inSte. Rose that has sent out minutes
indicating that they aregoing to have to shut down the legion, by the looks of
it, by theend of this month, because of the way in which this government
isintroducing its gambling policy, if they even have a gamblingpolicy.
My question to the Premier is: Will the minister change thepolicy and allow
VLTs in the legion halls, given that it is anabsolute shame, the manner in
which this government is treatingthe legions throughout this province, absolute
shame?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I can tell the memberfor
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please.
Mr. Filmon: Well, it
shows that the New Democrats never couldhandicap properly.
The answer to his question is: That is a matter that we arestill under
discussion with with representatives of the legionsof this province on, and we
will continue to consult as we moveforward on various different aspects of our
policy with respectto gaming in this province.
The minister responsible, the Minister of Culture,
Heritageand Citizenship (Mrs. Mitchelson), has been very fair and
veryreasonable and has spent time listening to people who haveconcerns, from
all areas of the province and from all varioussectors, including the legions.
Mr. Lamoureux: Mr.
Speaker, I find it somewhat unfortunate thatwe have one legion in particular
that is having to look atclosing their doors because of actions of this
government, whichis most unfortunate, because this government is not prepared
orwas not prepared to introduce a gambling policy, that it hasdecided to do it
in such an ad hoc way in which you are pittingcommunities against communities.
Why did this government not think through all
theimplications before bringing in the VLT system?
Mr. Filmon: Mr.
Speaker, the various programs that have beenbrought forward in this province
have been brought forward withintent and purpose.
The member talks about a legion possibly closing its
doors.We would have lost half of the hotels in southern rural Manitobaif we had
not brought forth the policy of implementing VLTs inthose hotels. The hotel keepers and the hotel owners have
saidthat publicly. He, as a member of
this Legislature, ought to beconcerned about that because it would have been a
very negativeimpact on many of the communities in rural southern
I know that the member for Interlake (Mr. Clif
Evans)understands that full well. It is
a very substantial economicbenefit to those people, so we have brought forward
thesepolicies after careful consideration.
We have announced thatthese policies are progressing step by step, and
so that when webrought the VLTs into rural southern
We have said that we are going to be expanding it so
thathotels within the city of
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Mr. Lamoureux: Mr.
Speaker, the Premier says that he wasconcerned and he listened to the
hoteliers. Why is the Premiernot
concerned in listening to what the legions are saying? Whyis it that the Premier is being very one‑sided
on this wholedebate? There has been no
public consultation. There has notbeen
any coherent policy. An ad hoc‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member for
Inksterhas put his question.
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker,
the question was, why am I notconcerned?
The answer is that I am concerned; that ourgovernment is concerned. That is why we are in the midst
ofconsultations with the legions. If we
were not concerned, wewould not be in discussion with them.
Decentralization
Criteria
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (
I want to ask the Premier: Is this map still in use, or hasthe map
changed since the election, and is that why all thedecentralized jobs are going
to Tory ridings or ridings‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member has put
herquestion.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker‑‑
Some Honourable Members:
Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. We do not need a singsong right
now.
Mr. Filmon: You know, Mr. Speaker,
here we have the member
Ms. Wowchuk: Mr.
Speaker, we voted against politicalinterference.
Mr. Speaker, will the Premier tell us then when we will
seethis government carry through with the balance of its promisedjobs? When will we see jobs in Dauphin? When will we see jobsin Thompson and in The
Pas?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker,
you know, here is the member for SwanRiver; we have a personal care home being
constructed, thanks tothe policies and the decisions of this government, right
in hercommunity of
Completion
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. I would ask the honourable
memberfor
Ms. Wowchuk: Yes, I
will remove that.
Mr. Speaker: The
honourable member for
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Ms. Wowchuk: Will the
Premier admit that he is misleading thepublic while carrying on about
proceeding with decentralizationsince the Minister of Rural Development (Mr.
Derkach) has alreadytold the Dauphin media that the remaining 160 or 170 jobs
willnot be carried out for the next two or three years, or is thisgovernment‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member has put
herquestion.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we announced, I believeit was
about three years ago, at the Union of ManitobaMunicipalities annual meeting,
in fact, it was November of 1989in
In conjunction with that, jobs have gone to Dauphin,
jobshave gone to Selkirk, jobs have gone to Brandon East, jobs havegone to
Thompson, jobs have gone to Flin Flon, all of those areasof New Democratic
Party holdings we, we have decentralized jobs,Mr. Speaker. That is because of a commitment that
thisgovernment has made, a commitment to fairness, a commitment tobalance and a
commitment to rural and northern
Decentralization
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, the North has beenparticularly
hard hit by cuts in government positions and thepolitical decisions as to where
decentralization is takingplace. The
unemployment rate currently in The Pas sits at 25percent, and the more further
north you go, it is 90 percent.
My question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon): Sinceunemployment in the North is the highest
of any region in thecountry, why did this government put the majority of jobs
insouthwest
Hon. James Downey (Minister of Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker,for a member who decided to run
for a party, who was unable toget one thing under the New Democratic Party, to
ask this kind ofa question, where in fact the Community Economic
DevelopmentFund, with some 12 employees, is now operating out of Thompson,
The Pas, as well, was a recipient of decentralized
jobs,which are important in that community and, as well, Mr. Speaker,major initiatives
by this government to assure the ongoingoperation of the Manfor Repap plant, a
credit to this government,not to the one he chose to sit with.
Decentralization
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): My supplementary question, Mr.Speaker, is
again directed to the First Minister.
How does the First Minister explain the fact that there
arefewer civil servant positions in northern
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, there are fewer civilservant
positions overall in this province. That
is the realityof having government be more efficient and taking less
dollarsfrom the taxpayer. That is the
reality. We do not want to addmore taxes
like New Democrats do. We absolutely
refuse to raisethe taxes in the obscene way that the New Democrats did. As aresult of that, we have 1,200 fewer civil
servants across theprovince as a whole.
We believe that is the right policy, andthe people of
Funding
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, my last question isagain directed
to the First Minister.
Over the past two years, despite a rising unemployment
ratein the North and the need for more training,
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, you know, this is awonderful way
for the New Democrats to start rumours in thisHouse, is to imply through
questions that something is beingconsidered.
I know of no plans to target any particular area.We have an obligation
to review the entire workings of the CivilService to ensure that we can deliver
the services of thisprovince as efficiently and effectively as possible. We willcontinue to examine every possible
avenue. We will go throughline by line,
position by position, department by department,section by section, and make
sure that we can have this CivilService operate as efficiently as possible, and
we will examineevery particular option, because we do not want to raise
taxeslike the New Democrats raised taxes.
That is the wrong policy,and we reject it.
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Video Lottery Terminals
Revenues
Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Mr. Speaker, I have a questionfor the
Minister of Rural Development.
Last July, when the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) announced
theestablishment of video lottery terminals for rural
Can the minister tell the House when he changed the
policyand why? Why is this minister
breaking a commitment made to thepeople of
Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Mr.Speaker, I do not know where the member
does his research andgets his information, but indeed neither the $7 million‑‑that
wasa figure that I do not know where it came from. Certainly it didnot come from our
office. I indicated in the very
beginning thatwe had been given some $2.4 million for the REDI program from
VLTrevenues. In addition there was over
$895,000, I believe, givento the Grow Bonds program from the VLT revenues. In addition, weput $740,000 into The Green
Team. So, in total, we havecommitted
over $4 million to various Rural Economic DevelopmentInitiatives across this
province.
It is true that the anticipated revenues were going to
be$5.3 million. That is something that
we had to put our bestefforts in guessing, what the revenues were going to be,
becausewe had no history of VLT revenues in this province prior to
usintroducing them last November. If
there are additionalrevenues, those will be dealt with through the normal
process andthe budget process.
Mr. Gaudry: In case
the minister has not seen the press releasefrom his department, I will table
it. A promise was made todirect all
revenues into rural conomic development, a promisethis government is
breaking. If it was the government's
intentto use VLT revenues for general purposes, why did this ministernot have
the integrity and the honesty to say so from thebeginning?
Mr. Derkach: Mr.
Speaker, it is interesting that the member getsup now in support of rural
economic development, because first ofall they voted against it in the
beginning.
Let me say that, indeed, every penny that we were given
inthe Estimates process and in the budget process will be used forRural
Economic Development Initiatives. As I
have indicated, wehave already committed over $4 million towards Rural
EconomicDevelopment Initiatives in rural
Mr. Gaudry: If the
minister has committed it, will the ministercommit today to channel every penny
raised from rural VLTs backto rural
Mr. Derkach: Mr.
Speaker, when we introduced video lotteriesinto this province, first of all the
opposition and, I might say,the member's own party, the critic from the Liberal
Party, hisown party, were opposed to video lottery terminals and the
wholeconcept. We indicated at that time,
in anticipation of revenuesof somewhere in the neighbourhood of $5.3 million,
that thoserevenues would be used for Rural Economic DevelopmentInitiatives. That commitment stands. We have committed over $4million to date to
Rural Economic Development Initiatives, andour commitment is to rural
Decentralization
Vital Statistics Branch
Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr.Filmon) stood in
this House and said that politics andconstituency maps had nothing to do with
the criteria in makingdecisions with regard to decentralization. Yet, since the 1990election, we have had, of
the 34 jobs that were to be transferredto Dauphin, only seven of those
transferred. So 27 were nottransferred
to Dauphin. In addition to that, we have
had over 30jobs lost in Corrections, in Agriculture, in Natural Resources,in
Highways, in various departments, over 60 jobs lost.
I want to ask the First Minister or the Minister of
RuralDevelopment why those jobs for Vital Statistics were notdelivered to
Dauphin as promised.
Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Mr.Speaker, I have indicated on several
occasions that when thecommitment was made, I believe it was 640 jobs that
would bedecentralized throughout rural
So our commitment is to rural
Mr. Plohman: Mr.
Speaker, that answer is absolutely untrue.
Inthis same memo that my Leader quoted from earlier, it said thatat
cabinet each minister will be required to agree that eachproposed move within
their department is practical, feasible,logistically sound and achievable by
the established target date.
What is this minister's excuse for not delivering? How is itthat he is saying he found out later
about computerization‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member has put
hisquestion.
Mr. Derkach: Mr.
Speaker, I think the member for Dauphin justread the answer into the record
when he asked the question.First of all, it has to be practical. Secondly, every departmentwas asked to ensure
that before we decentralized any positions,we would make sure that the
decentralization process would besuch that would benefit the community and
would not be done insuch a way that would be a haphazard way.
If we compare our decentralization program to any of
theother provinces that have attempted decentralization, ourdecentralization
program is probably the most successful in
Mr. Plohman: Mr.
Speaker, how can this minister stand in thisHouse and tell this House the
information that he has when infact this memo was written February 16, 1990,
prior to the publicannouncement? It was
his job to ensure that these decisions werelogistically sound before they were
announced. If they met thatcriteria, why
were they announced if they could not bedelivered? What games were‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member has put
hisquestion.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker,
I can tell the member from Dauphinthat indeed our commitment is not‑‑
An Honourable Member: For
Dauphin.
Mr. Derkach: For
Dauphin, because he is not from Dauphin.
When Vital Statistics was identified to be moved to
Dauphin,one of the things that the department did bring to our attentionwas
that it would be far better and far more practical for us todo the entire
computerization system renewal before that kind ofan initiative could be
embarked upon. The co‑ordinator
ofdecentralization pressed the department to get some answers interms of how
long this would take.
Mr. Speaker, I have indicated on many occasions that
whenthat process is complete, we will then revisit that decision andmake sure
that we will live up to our commitments.
Aboriginal Justice
Inquiry
Recommendations
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my question is for theMinister
of Justice.
We raised some questions in this Chamber yesterday about
theAJI, and I noted the minister's press release with respect to theAJI that
107 recommendations or 36 percent of the recommendationsof the AJI were within
provincial jurisdiction.
Can the minister outline today how many of
thoserecommendations have been implemented?
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Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney
General): Inaddition to support of the government of
Youth Programs
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): The minister specifically, in thepress
release, indicated there would be three initiatives takenout for youth and
crime, youth specialists to work with youngoffenders, family abuse teams and
crime prevention programs foryouth in aboriginal communities.
Can the minister indicate the status of those three
specificprograms that the minister indicated at the time he would
beimplementing?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney
General): Wehave begun that process with our support
for the St. TheresaPoint Youth Court and, I suggest, the Hollow Water sexual
abuseproject.
As I said, we have begun consultations with respect toaboriginal
court models in selected aboriginal communities forthe most part in northern
Mr. Chomiak: My final
supplementary to the same minister:
Theminister indicated that these three specific programs toyouth‑‑and
that is very timely because youth and crime is a veryserious issue in our
society‑‑would be implemented.
Has theminister implemented these three simple programs that heindicated
in his press release January 28 he would beimplementing?
Mr. McCrae: We have
engaged in more cross‑cultural training,native awareness training
programs amongst officers in ourcorrectional facilities. These are being revised and updated
byofficers of aboriginal ancestry. The
program is part of thebasic training program for all recruits in
corrections.Correction officers who have not taken the course in the pastfive
years will be enrolled with a view to completing the coursewithin the next two
years. We have native advisory
committeesalready formed at Brandon and Dauphin, and we are attempting tocreate
them for all the other institutions. I
mentioned DOTCservices. In the area of
prosecutions, we have made directresponses to the Harper and Osborne aspects of
the AboriginalJustice Inquiry.
Hazardous Waste
Environmental Liability
Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): My question is for the Minister ofEnvironment,
Mr. Speaker.
In the last session of the Legislature, the House
passedamendments to The Dangerous Goods Handling and TransportationAct, giving
power to the director of enforcement in thedepartment to issue cleanup orders
against almost anyone who wasever involved with a piece of contaminated
property, whether ornot they were directly involved in the contamination. Flowingfrom that the minister appointed an
advisory committee onenvironmental liability.
It has now come forward with itsreport, and the minister has had it
since October 5.
Mr. Speaker, my question for the minister: That reportclearly calls for decisions of
liability apportionment to betaken outside of his office's hands and given to
an independent decision-maker. Will the
minister commit today to abiding bythis report's recommendation and putting
environmental liability decision-making authority in the hands of an
independent body,such as an administrative tribunal or court, instead of
makingthose decisions out of his office?
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, Ithink on one hand the member
would like this minister to take farmore arbitrary action, but on the other
hand, he is not sure thathe is really committed to that. This report that is referred tois a very
valued report, as a matter of fact, a multisectoralresponse to what is a very
difficult problem for the Departmentof Environment. But what he has overlooked however in hisquestion
is that we committed ourselves to a much broaderconsultation as well on the
national scale. I have attempted toput
this on the agenda of the national ministers' conference, andwe will continue
to push forward on a broader basis so that
Mr. Edwards: Mr.
Speaker, perhaps the minister will answer thisquestion. On the last page of this report,
underrecommendations, the committee specifically indicated that thegovernment
must take stronger steps to prevent futurecontamination.
Mr. Speaker, why is it that this minister and this
governmenthas to continue to suffer the admonishment of groups from thebusiness
community like the Canadian Bankers' Association, theWinnipeg Chamber of
Commerce, who are both on this task force?Why does the government have to keep
being criticized by thesebodies to take action to enforce its regulations? This is thethird time this year that this
government has been criticized bythe business community for its lack of
enforcement.
Mr. Cummings: Mr.
Speaker, there is, I think, a little bit ofcontradiction between what the
member would like to portray andwhat actually occurs. As a matter of fact, I am admonished
manytimes for the department being too active in its activities inrelationship
to enforcement and control, but let me assure youthat the implementation of The
Dangerous Goods Handling andTransportation Act is the priority function of the
department atthis juncture, and we are moving forward in that respect.
Mr. Speaker: The time
for Oral Questions has expired.
NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS
Mr. Jack Reimer (Niakwa):
Mr. Speaker, may I have leave to makea nonpolitical statement?
Mr. Speaker: Does the
honourable member for Niakwa have leave tomake a nonpolitical statement?
[agreed]
Mr. Reimer: Today I
would like to pay special recognition to anevent that has been entertaining us
for many years and now hasbeen formally recognized by a major American
travelorganization. Yesterday Folklorama
was named the top event in
The American Bus Association is a major travel
industryorganized in the
The American Bus Association chose our Folklorama over
70other Canadian nominations because of its multicultural appeal,its
reputation, its attendance, the theme and the accessibilityto motor coach
travel. This award recognizes the
outstandingeffort put in by more than 20,000 volunteers who work
efficientlytogether to create the largest multicultural festival in theworld.
These people put in countless hours staffing booths,
stampingpassports, preparing food, performing and
demonstratinghandicrafts. In fact, many
give up part of their holidays justto work at Folklorama. Through their enthusiasm, their
teamwork,their professionalism, these volunteers have placed Folklorama,the
city of
As I mentioned earlier, one of the factors that resulted
inFolklorama being named the top event in
I, like thousands of other people, have been a
regularvisitor to Folklorama. I am proud
of Folklorama and what it doesfor preserving multiculturalism, and I ask all
members in theAssembly to collectively congratulate the organizers
andvolunteers of Folklorama.
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Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, I would like leaveto make a
nonpolitical statement.
Mr. Speaker: Does the
member for Radisson have leave to make anonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Ms. Cerilli: I would
like to join with the honourable memberfrom the government side and express
congratulations to the FolkArts Council and the number of community groups in
Mr. Speaker, I also want to put on the record a couple
ofconcerns that are expressed to me and I also expressed at thepress conference
yesterday regarding Folklorama. I just
want tosay that a number of community groups have expressed to me theirconcern
that Folklorama is in some ways causing them to go intodebt and that we have to
look at carefully to ensure that the $30million coming to the economy from
Folklorama is going to thecommunities that are doing the hard volunteer work
and arerepresenting us so well.
I would just like to encourage all of us to
supportFolklorama and show that multiculturalism is a great asset andone of our
strengths in
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
Mr. Speaker: Does the
honourable member for
Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, it is a
pleasure for me to stand upand to pay tribute to all the volunteers, and there
are literallyhundreds of thousands of volunteers who have contributed in
someway over the number of years that Folklorama has been inexistence.
I know my colleague from St. Boniface was a mayor of the
oneof the pavilions at one time. For
many of us inside thisChamber, we have participated in different ways, whether
it wasparticipating as a member of the audience, possibly even gettingup or
recruited on the floor to participate in a dance or asong‑‑for some
of us who have volunteered our services, but mostimportantly, to those
volunteers that take so much of theirpersonal time. I am aware of individuals who will take
theirholidays on or during Folklorama so that they can contribute thatmuch more
towards ensuring that this particular event is asuccess.
Mr. Speaker, I guess those are the individuals whom I
reallywant to pay that special tribute to, those individuals who go farbeyond
what most would expect in terms of being able, as I say,to taking their
holidays, by immediately leaving their workplaceand going to the pavilions for
a straight week. It is no easyfeat.
We are not talking about a small number of
individuals. Weare talking about a
significant portion of Winnipeggers andindividuals outside of the city of
We look forward to seeing Folklorama for many, many
moreyears to come. Thank you very much,
Mr. Speaker.
* *
*
Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli):
Mr. Speaker, do I have leave to makea nonpolitical statement?
Mr. Speaker: Does the
member for Gimli have leave to make anonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Helwer: Mr.
Speaker, I rise in this House today to pay tribute to aman who has left his
mark on many
George Barone died yesterday in
His other well‑known works include: Tommy Turtle inBoissevain, Alpine Archie in
McCreary, the Ashern grouse, Sarathe camel in Glenboro, King Miner in Thompson
and the very famouswhite horse which has been standing just west of Headingley
forabout 35 years. Millions of tourists
have stopped by thesestatues and had their pictures taken beside them.
Barone arrived in
His larger-than-life statues are known for being able
towithstand our hot summers and bitterly cold winters. Besides themany in our province, there are
about 15 communities across thecountry that have the Barone statues.
If you want to find out how much of an impact Mr.
Barone'swork has had on
Mr. Speaker, I call on all members of the
LegislativeAssembly to pay tribute to Mr. George Barone. Thank you.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
THRONE SPEECH DEBATE
(Eighth Day of Debate)
Mr. Speaker: On the proposed motion of the honourable member
for
Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, it isindeed a pleasure for me to
have the opportunity to address a fewremarks to the Speech from the Throne
which very clearly laid outthe continued mandate of this government to attempt
to use asteady hand in directing the province in terms of
developingopportunities to take advantage of international opportunities.
I want to congratulate you on being back in the Chair
andwish you good luck in trying to keep a steady hand on members ofthis House
who sometimes get a little unruly, probably myselfincluded, but I wish you luck
in trying to control us, because weall understand that in a democratic system
this is a veryimportant medium to help the public understand what is going
on,and it helps to direct the government in the decision‑makingprocess.
I would also like to welcome the six new Pages to
thisHouse. I hope that their experience
here is a very good one interms of understanding how the democratic system
works.Sometimes what they see in Question Period is not really whatgoes on in
government all the time. There is a
little moreharmony between the members of this House than what we see
inQuestion Period.
I want to welcome all members back to this
House,particularly the new members to the House‑‑the member for
Portagela Prairie (Mr. Pallister) here for the first time. I am certainhe is going to make a very
valuable contribution to our caucusand to this House and, particularly,
representing the members of
I would also like to welcome the returning member to
theHouse from Crescentwood who was on a brief sabbatical between1990 and
now. She is a good person because she
comes from rural
Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources): Welcome meback, too.
Mr. Findlay: The
Minister of Natural Resources also would liketo be welcomed back, and since he
is the dean of the House he isprobably the one I should speak about first. He is certainlyinto his 26th or 27th year,
one or the other. It is a veryremarkable
record in this day and age.
I would like to pay tribute to the Leader of the
SecondOpposition (Mrs. Carstairs), the member for
Also, the member for Churchill, the former member ofRupertsland,
I wish him well in his announced retirement andwhatever he pursues in the
future.
*
(1430)
I want to briefly comment on a few things about
agriculturein the few minutes I have available to me. I would like to startby reminding all members
of this House, particularly the urbanmembers, of the value of the agriculture
industry. One littlething that happened
here, I guess it was last spring, when acertain billboard was erected in
Yes, the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) says he
wasraised on a farm, and I hope that in the process of thinkingabout
agriculture issues, food issues, urban issues, he remembersthe contribution
that people in rural
Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but remember a comment that
Iheard from an urban person in a setting where there was seven oreight people
from the city of
This urban person said why should she worry about
farmersbecause she gets her food at Safeway.
I have never forgottenthat statement, because she meant it. She truthfully meant it.She thought that food
magically arrived on the shelves of Safeway.
We have many, many people in urban settings,
When this country started 125 years ago, the majority of
theoccupations were farming or trapping.
We have evolved from thereand, certainly, the fur industry has
encountered some very toughtimes because of public attitudes. Certainly, we have had somepublic attitudes
that have not been positive about agriculturebut, Mr. Speaker, I want to remind
all honourable members thatthere is no place in the world that anybody can
produce orconsume food of higher quality, more reliable food safety, thanthey
can right here in
Mr. Speaker, the agriculture industry as a whole in
thisprovince generates about $1.8 billion of income at the farmgate. Sixty percent of that product has to be
exported outsideof this country in order to be consumed. That is why I so oftencomment on the value of
trade and the relations we have had withcountries all over the world in
positive trade relationships.
Mr. Speaker, in the grain sector we export over 80
percent ofwhat we produce. We export to
some 60 countries of the world.On the livestock side, we export to lesser
countries, butnonetheless a significant portion of the livestock sector
incomealso comes from exports.
Mr. Speaker, I have often heard members across the way,
bothparties, chastise us about supporting trade, about supporting thevery
lifeblood of our industry. They think
that free trade is adirty word. I want
to remind members that in agriculture, wehave basically had free trade ever
since we started to exportfrom this country.
We have had free trade to the
How we function in that I think is something to be proud
of,not to make fun of, and the members over there often like to makefun of the
fact that we export to the
In
Just to give the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry)
somestatistics, because he seems to be interested in the fact that weare
successful in that way, just for instance in cattle. From1988 to '91 we have gone from $58 million
of exports to the
We move trade both ways.
We are on a level playing fieldbasically. We are competitive and we succeed very well.
In swine, we have gone from $30 million to $50 million
ofexports over that three‑year period.
In barley, we have gonefrom $4.8 million to $7.3 million. In many cases here I amtalking about a 50 percent,
100 percent increase in the sales inbasically three years. In honey, we have gone from $2.9 millionto
$4.1 million, just to give the member some examples. One moreexample I would like to throw in
because of the importance of thecrop is canola oil, where we have gone from $45
million to $57million, or canola meal, from $11 million to $18 million.
That is how important that market is to us, and that is
whywe talk so positively about free trade.
We have had free tradein this industry as long as I have been here, as
long as myancestors have been here, you know, and I could not help butremember
a comment of somebody in the cattle industry during theWorld Series,
saying: Is it not interesting? We have free tradein baseball.
Free trade in baseball‑‑we have free trade in
all sports. Wehave free trade in
agriculture. We get so hung up on a few
otherareas. If they would just follow
the examples of sports andagriculture they would do very well in trade.
We are part of the world.
We are part of the global tradingsystem, and this industry very
definitely is. There is no wayyou can
hide from it. I hear constantly about
members on theother side really talking about building the walls
higher,preventing trade, impeding trade, trying to hide from the world.We have
not in this industry and I am very proud that we havenot. We have succeeded relatively well.
That is why it is so difficult for us to understand
whycertain elements in the
Nonetheless, what is really happening day to day right
now ismore of the opposite. We have a
332 investigation started by theInternational Trade Commission of the United
States Department ofCommerce initiating investigations on peas, lentils, beef
andlive cattle. I think we will be very
successful in defendingourselves and proving that there is no reason that the
UnitedStates should be able to put countervail in place, but the tradeagreement
allows a mechanism that will go through that process oftrying to protect
ourselves.
(Mrs.
Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)
Madam Deputy Speaker, let us face it. In trade, the reallybig issue is
international trade, and it is the GATT agreement wehave all heard so much
about it. It started back in 1986
underthe
I am very proud that in the agricultural industry we
wereable to come to a conclusion that was unanimous across thecountry. We have not changed that position from start
to finishin this dispute process, but over really the last 18 months, thewhole
process of those discussions continuing to proceed has beensomewhat very
difficult for us to accept, because the UnitedStates and
Those 108 nations have been back at the table now for
abouttwo weeks, and over the course of the last two weeks you haveheard of a
lot of difficulties arising in
*
(1440)
It is very encouraging to read, in today's Free Press,
acomment out of Brussels that the European Community, where thetrade and
agriculture ministers have been meeting the last twodays from the European
Community, the 12 European countries,decided yesterday to reject France's
demand that the EC refusedto discuss farm subsidies and world trade talks
unlessconcessions are reached in other areas.
So now at least 11countries in the European Community would appear to be
rejectingthe position
Madam Deputy Speaker, there has been each year over
$300billion spent in the world in agricultural or foodsubsidies‑‑over
$300 billion. That is a staggering
figure, and Iask: Does anybody know if
it ever did anybody any good to dothat? The
taxpayer put that money up. Is it doing
the rightthing?
If I was to say what my interpretation is, it is
promotingproduction where it is not necessarily economic. It is trying tocreate production where maybe
a comparative advantage says itshould not happen.
Madam Deputy Speaker, and all members of this House,
withoutthose kinds of subsidies, the economy of rural
It is a lot of money to try to offset the impact of
otherpeople's treasuries. If we do not
have resolution of the GATTprocess, we all know it is very difficult for either
provincialor federal governments in this small country to continue to putforward
the kind of money we put forward in the past.
Certainly, the entire farm community that I have talked
to inthe last two years wants to see an agreement reached. Many of usunderstand that there will be
adjustments that you will have tomake in the overall process of different
government programs,federal or provincial, in terms of what we have to do to
beconsistent with that agreement.
Many people in the supply and management area are looking
atthe what ifs in their situation.
Particularly, the milk industryis going across
Really, they are talking about more opportunities to
produceraw product in this country, process it and export it all overthe
world. I condone that. I thank them for that exercise totry to find
ways and means that the producers and the processorswill work together to
improve production, improve processing andsell more product to the world
because that creates jobs in rural
Madam Deputy Speaker, we have to continue that
intenseconsultation process because if we do not work together from thefarm
gate right to the consumer, we will miss opportunities. Ihave said so often to producers across this
province we mustremember there is one person who guides our industry and that
isthe ultimate consumer, wherever they are in the world. If theylike the quality of the product, the
reliability of that productand the food safety aspects of that product, they
will continueto buy it. If they are not
buying it, we are in big trouble inthe industry, and many sectors of the
agricultural community haverealized that and are working aggressively to try to
achieve that.
Madam Deputy Speaker, we are in a world of change. We are,no question, in a world of
change. It is driven by
mankind'singenuity. It is change that
has happened ever since we firstset foot in this country 125 years ago‑‑in
the case of myancestors, just a little bit longer than that. We have evolved,we have evolved, we have
evolved, through research anddevelopment and trial and error. We have done things better,faster, more
efficient, less cost and really we must never losesight of that, because the
ultimate buyer looks for the highestquality at the lowest price, whoever they
are, wherever theyare‑‑if we do not recognize that and try to
evolve our industryin that direction and seek new opportunities where they
areeconomic. We must look at ways and
means we can diversify ourproduction base, and we have done a good job of that
in the last20 or 30 years, particularly in the special crops areas in
thisprovince where we have the soil and climate in order to do it.
In the livestock sector where we have again the soil and
theclimate and the entrepreneurship to do it, we have diversified,but I have
often said to producers it is only good if it iseconomic on the bottom line for
everybody in the industry,producer, processor, transporter, exporter, whoever
they are.Everybody must have a black bottom line in that process or it isnot
going to be functional.
We must have more value‑added industry in this
province, inother words, take the raw product, process it and sell a
productthat has generated more jobs for us.
We have had an industrythat evolved on selling the raw product, selling
the grain,selling the pig, selling the cattle beast. We are moving moreand more to understanding
that if we can create value‑addedindustries in this province, we can have
more jobs.
Certainly a couple of classical examples come to
mind. PMUoperation, absolutely a
fantastic growth industry for thisprovince.
It is an industry that started back about 1966 withfour people in
western
We have a lot of people who have gone into that industry
inthe last few years. We have about 355
operations in thatbusiness and will probably be going to grow to over 400,
maybe500 operations in that business, and 60 percent of them will bein the
Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a market for horse
meat. Wemust remember that. We must develop that industry in the
In agriculture you always think of traditional food. This isnonfood, so we are using acres of land
to produce a valuableproduct profitable outside the food area. The ethanol industryis another example in
that direction. One can say the
forageseed industry is another example in that direction. Those arethe kinds of things we need to do on
into the future.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I have been very encouraged by the
kindof leadership shown by farmers and their leaders in rural
Madam Deputy Speaker, as I said earlier, we are in
anindustry of change, and that change will not slow down. Nomatter what the opposition members would
like to do to slow downchange and hide from change, we cannot do it, and none
of ourfarm leaders want to do it. That
is why in our Speech from theThrone we have indicated that we will put on a
major forum tobring these leaders together to focus on where we have
beensuccessful, where we need to go in the future, where ouropportunities are,
and how we can work together, whether we aretalking farmers, agribusiness
people, processors or government.How can we work together?
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(1450)
Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): How about sugar? It has a fantasticmarket. What are you doing for sugar for the 90
percent that weneed?
Mr. Findlay: The
member for Dauphin would like to know aboutsugar. Again, it is a good example of
diversification andvalue‑added industry.
That industry has been under some degreeof challenge because of the lack
of a Canadian sugar policy whichallows dumping of cheap sugar into this
country. We have beenconstantly making
representation to the federal government thatthat must be solved. I do not want any different trade action
onthe border than what we face going south and the same shouldhappen coming
into this country. There is an
opportunity forgrowth in that industry; there is no question.
The federal minister now has a special measures committee
todeal with the sugar industry. It is
farmers and processorstrying to decide how to deal with the future of the
industry. Weexpect that special measures
committee to report fairly soon, andwe will be looking for how we are creating
equal protection onour border relative to other countries in this world. It is myunderstanding we are the only country
in the world that does notprevent the dumping of sugar. I do not think that is fair. Iasked for an open border, but I also want
fair trade, equalacross the border, and our industry is going to need that if
theyare going to continue to grow. We
have about 27,000 acres insugar beets.
It is a very high‑valued crop, very technologicallyinvolved, and
we have tremendously good and competent producersin that industry.
Madam Deputy Speaker, that member who sat in the governmenton
this side of the House in 1987 absolutely refused to givestabilization to that
industry so it could survive the roughtime.
They never would have done it if this member and thisgovernment‑‑the
members who are on this side now who were on thatside then pushed that
government into doing it. Had
thatstabilization program not been in place, the industry would notbe here
today.
Madam Deputy Speaker, in the farm community, in the
farmindustry, we have definitely put in stabilization programs,safety net
programs, but all farmers want to have their incomefrom the marketplace.
I have just a few minutes left. I would like to reflectquickly on some of the
sectors. I have already said, the
PMUbusiness requires no stabilization, because the industry is soundand solid
the way it is.
The cattle industry has never been stronger than it has
beenthis last year. In fact, it has had
seven good years in a row,and the tripartite stabilization program is in
surplus, MadamDeputy Speaker, because of the strong marketplace.
The hog industry has had its up‑and‑down
cycles.
We have seen growth in the cattle industry, faster in
thisprovince than any other province in this country, regardless ofwhat
Madam Deputy Speaker, the hog industry, as I said
earlier,has its up‑and‑down cycles.
They have gained considerablepayments under the tripartite
stabilization, particularly in thelast three quarters, anywhere from $12 to $15
a hog, but our hognumbers in this province continue to be there.
We have more barns being built, and we have a challenge
inthat industry because members around this rural
The member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli) is over there
talkingto me, so probably she is opposed to building hog barns in
ruralManitoba. She is opposed to
agriculture. She is probablyopposed to
irrigating crops so we could produce product andcreate jobs for processing in
rural
Madam Deputy Speaker, in the grains industry in Manitoba‑‑
Point of Order
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): The Minister of Agriculture(Mr. Findlay)
referred to me, and I would just like to clarifyfor the record‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member
forRadisson (Ms. Cerilli) does not have a point of order.
* * *
Mr. Findlay: The
grains industry in rural
I hope that the window we see in GATT, that there will be
aresolution before Christmas. I hope
that that promise comestrue. If it does,
it will be a breath of fresh air. We
will notsee instant recovery of international prices, but at least wewill start
on the recovery mode, and that is the kind ofself‑confidence people in
the grain industry need in ruralManitoba.
Madam Deputy Speaker, it has been a pleasure to have
theopportunity to speak to this Speech from the Throne, because itdoes lay out
a very positive pattern for our province, certainlya more positive pattern than
we see in the provinces neighbouringus east and west.
I look forward to the member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman)
andthe kinds of questions he will raise in the House in the future.I would hope
he is promoting the industry, rather than trying tobring the industry down as
his questions of the last two weekshave indicated.
Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome
theopportunity to continue on my remarks I started last night on thethrone
speech.
As I was saying last night, Madam Deputy Speaker, the
thronespeech document was indeed a very disappointing document. Imentioned last night what I thought a throne
speech would be likeas it was explained to me before. I got the impression that thethrone speech is
supposed to be really a blueprint of what thegovernment was intending to do in
the session, but this paperthat we were given is, as I said last night, very
vague. It hasa lot of language that
needs to be made workable. I gave
theexample last night of, for example, language such as "Specificapprovals
processes will be reviewed with a view to streamliningand better co‑ordinating
. . . of provincial regulatory bodies."Now I fail to understand how that
kind of language in the thronespeech would produce employment, particularly in
the North. Sothe more I looked at the
throne speech, the more I wonder why ourPremier attempted last week to distance
himself from the PrimeMinister. It is a
do‑nothing document, as I was saying.
I was just going to explain last night why I view it as
ado‑nothing document, why this government is a do‑nothingdocument,
saying last night that when I was chief of my band,Madam Deputy Speaker, every
once in a while I would get accusedby my constituents of making the odd mistake
and so on. But as achief, I like to
think that I accomplished quite a bit when I wastrying to lead my people at The
Pas reserve. Yes, I made amistake here
and there, but on the whole I think I accomplishedquite a bit. I see this government as being afraid to
dosomething because it does not want to upset anybody, but when itis sitting
there doing nothing, of course nothing gets done. SoI was going to advise the First Minister
last night that formyself I would sooner be criticized for trying to do
something.I prefer not to be criticized for doing nothing, because that isworse.
After all, as the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness)
pointedout, he was satisfied that the two levels of government, thefederal and
provincial, were really following the same basicpolicies. He said, I am satisfied we are on the right
trackalong with the federal government.
The problem is that bothlevels of government are having the same
results, they areproducing the same results, and that is more people are out
ofwork. There are more layoffs; there
are more cuts to programsand services.
Of course, the deficit is not going down, it iscontinuing to go up. People are being thrown out of their jobsand
onto the UI system and eventually into the welfare system.These businesslike
people who are in government now are supposedto be running the government in a
businesslike way, except thatthey are not producing the results that they are
supposed to beproducing and, at the same time, the deficit keeps going up.
The provincial government also likes to say that they
havenot raised taxes. Although they may
once in a while complainabout the federal government offloading onto the
provinces and,yet, the provincial government does the very same thing
byoffloading onto municipalities and school boards.
*
(1500)
Another reason is, of course, the provincial government
andthis Tory government do not like to complain too much about thefederal
government because they know that the federal governmentraised income taxes and
the province gets a percentage of everyincrease that the federal government
puts in. One notes, MadamDeputy Speaker,
that they never complain about the federalgovernment, which has repeatedly
raised taxes in the past. Aswell, when
Manitobans use provincial government programs andservices, they will note that
the price has gone up 50 percent inmost cases and well over 100 percent in many
cases over the pastfour years.
As a northerner, of course I am very concerned about
theeffects of the throne speech on the North.
If this is indeed theblueprint for government action as far as the North
goes, thenthe North, I am afraid, is very much in trouble. The North hasalways been left out.
The Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach) quite
openlyand honestly, I might add, yesterday when he was making hisaddress
admitted that rural Manitoba and northern Manitoba do nothave the population
the South does. In other words, most of
thepeople in the
The words "jobs" and "unemployment"
were, in my mind,purposely left out of the throne speech. This is again adisturbing message to people
of northern
The Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) also said a little
overa month ago that it is time that his government became moreaggressive about
negotiating jobs, not just at Repap, which hementioned, but throughout the
North. The Minister of Financeadmitted
that up until now his government had been too passiveand that they may have to
be a bit more aggressive in itsnegotiations with Repap.
Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, I agree wholeheartedly with
theMinister of Finance in that statement.
It is time to getaggressive in the negotiations with Repap. As I am standing heretoday, 200 workers from
the lumber division of Repap have beenlaid off for the past three weeks, and
they will continue to belaid off until mid-February, I am told.
So it is time that the Minister of Finance included
thepeople of the North in its negotiations for jobs with whoever heis
negotiating with. It is time that the
Minister of Finance andhis government realized and accepted that people from
northernManitoba belong to
This year has been very bleak for those workers at
Repap,Madam Deputy Speaker. They are
laid off two or three months.They are called back to work for a couple of
months and then theyare laid off again for two or three months. It is not a verygood way to live.
The commitment of this government to the Clearwater
nurseryis suspect at best if we go by the number of layoffs thatoccurred at the
Clearwater nursery and also the refusal of thisgovernment to commit itself to
stabilize the future of thenursery. So
we have little reason to be hopeful for those of uswho come from the
North. This government has not learned
fromthe mistakes of two years ago when positions were cut, forexample, from
Keewatin Community College, Natural Resources,Department of Highways, northern
employment offices, et cetera.
The admission by the Minister of Education and Training
(Mrs.Vodrey) recently that she was looking at cuts of as much as $17million
from her budget is also disturbing, indeed.
More thanever, Madam Deputy Speaker, northerners need educational and
jobtraining opportunities, not less, but more job trainingopportunities. That is the key to our progress and
development.We should not be cutting those opportunities at the time that weneed
them the most. We need more of such
opportunities. We needmore. We do not need to be told that because you
come from theNorth that you should leave the North; come south or to Winnipegor
elsewhere in
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
So for that reason, Mr. Speaker, I am also concerned
aboutthe program that this government always talks about when I raisequestions
in the House and that is the Bachelor of Nursingprogram that is being operated
out of The Pas. I hope that
thegovernment is going to be monitoring the progress of that programjust as I
will be doing in the days ahead.
It was also very disturbing, Mr. Speaker, that there was
nota single reference to either the bayline or the Churchill rocketrange in
Churchill. As my colleague from Point
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(1510)
The threat to the
This government, Mr. Speaker, made a big deal about
changesto the way fishermen sell their fish.
I can tell the ministerright now that a restoration of the Fisherman's
Loan Program,restocking of lakes and some marketing by the government would
dofar more than this proposed change might accomplish. Whetherthat change that is being proposed
will actually benefitfishermen in the North certainly remains to be seen.
Mr. Speaker, regrettably, this government was never
committedto the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry.
Whatever commitment thisgovernment may have had on the AJI has pretty
well disappearedwithin this throne speech that was delivered last week. We sawwhere the Minister of Justice (Mr.
McCrae), in my questioningyesterday, was reduced to reading tired excuses from
last year asto why very little has been accomplished on the implementation
ofthe recommendations of the report.
Naturally, I am pleased, Mr. Speaker, that the Swampy
Creejustice project will get some funding along with a few otherprojects in
other communities. But it is clear that
the ministeris no longer interested in proceeding with many of
therecommendations. Over the next period
of time we will continueto raise the AJI because we believe that the report has
much tooffer
We do not need lectures by the Minister of Justice or
hiscolleagues on the state of justice in this province. I havelived here all my life, and I know far
too well the state ofjustice that exists for aboriginal people in
I am not going to side with the government,
becauseaboriginal people know very well where they stand with the
Torygovernment agenda. I know where I
stand. So what we see in thisthrone
speech is more of the same that we have seen in the lasttwo throne speeches.
For northerners, Mr. Speaker, this throne speech is not
goodnews indeed. Thank you for giving me
the time to finish myaddress that I started last evening.
Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Monsieur le president, ca mefait plaisir et
c'est toujours un honneur pour moi de me leverdans cette Assemblee
parlementaire. Premierement, j'aimerais
tesouhaiter encore la bienvenue. Puis ca
fait plaisir de te revoirdans la chaise puisque tu fais toujours un bon
travail. Un peud'humour est toujours
ajoute a la non‑partisanerie, on espere.En tout cas, bienvenu encore dans
cette position tres majestueusesi l'on peut le dire.
[Translation]
Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure and honour for me
torise in this parliamentary Assembly.
First of all, I would liketo welcome you back. It is a pleasure to see you again in theChair
since you always do good work. A bit of
humour is alwaysadded to nonpartisanship, one hopes. In any event, welcome backto this very
majestic post, if we can put it that way.
[English]
Also, Mr. Speaker, I
would like to welcome the Pages, theones who have been named for this
session. It is always apleasure to see
young, new faces. It is quite an
experience forthem to see the parliamentary procedures, I am sure. I wish themwell and that they enjoy their
stay here during the next session.
First and foremost, I would like to express my regrets to
seeour Leader who is leaving our party as Leader of the LiberalParty. She is more than just the Leader of the
Liberal Party.She was a friend, and I am sure to many of the colleagues in
theLegislature. To me, the door was always
open, and I am sure itwas to all my colleagues in the caucus. It is sad to see her goand she will be missed
in the Legislature and I am sure in theLiberal Party because I am sure she is
going to do something thatshe will be enjoying to do herself in the
future. I wish herwell in her endeavours. Like I say, she will be missed. She wasa grand lady.
Also, it gives me great pleasure to welcome the new
membersin the Legislature, our colleague of 1988, the member forCrescentwood
(Ms. Gray), who is back in the Legislature.
It isnice to see her back here. I
am sure she will do well again likeshe did before.
I would like to welcome the member for
Another person that we did not get a chance to
complimentwhen he resigned last January was a colleague of ours, Mr. JimCarr,
the former member for Crescentwood, who was also a goodfriend and a very
competent MLA. He worked very hard. I wassorry to see him go, but of course with
a young family it is noteasy. He decided
to go for better things. I would not
saybetter things, because it is always a pleasure to work forManitobans, and I
know he enjoyed working for Manitobans andworked for everybody who was in the
Legislature.
Mais c'est surtout un devoir privilegie d'adresser
quelquesmots sur la planification du gouvernement telle qu'elle a etepresentee
a cette assemblee deliberante, lors de la lecture duDiscours du Trone de la
quatrieme session de cettetrente‑cinquieme legislature.
Il va de soi que l'on peut dire que cet agenda politique
dugouvernement ne se distingue d'aucune innovation; n'annonceaucune mesure
extraordinaire; ne donne aucun souffle d'espoir auxManitobains et aux
Manitobaines d'entrevoir une issue de secoursafin de sortir des perils
innombrables, et combien malheureux, dela recession economique.
Dans tout systeme parlementaire, comme celui dont nous
avonsle privilege d'en jouir les bienfaits au Canada et au Manitoba,le respect
du devoir civique de chaque depute doit faire honneura la confiance leguee par
les electeurs et les electrices. Etce,
peut importe que l'on soit parmi les rangs du gouvernement oubien assis parmi
le ou les partis politiques de l'opposition.
Les allegeances ideologiques doivent servir de fil
conducteurtout en permettant a la pensee de ne pas outrepasser la realite.La
raison d'etre de notre assemblee legislative, de contribuer al'amelioration des
conditions de vie des Manitobains et desManitobaines, doit etre la source
d'inspiration qui permette augouvernement et a l'opposition de se completer
l'un a l'autre.Oui, oui, je vais en parler toute a l'heure, il n'y a pas
deprobleme. Ca s'en vient. J'aime attaquer le gouvernement
pourcommencer.
Je ne discuterai pas ici de maniere systematique
lesdifferences des deux bords parce que la chose est deja faite defacon
habituelle. Neanmoins, j'aimerais
preciser qu'il est durole de l'opposition de montrer avec force et pertinence
lesinsuffisances du gouvernement.
Monsieur le president, je me sens malgre tout quelque
peuravi de constater que le gouvernement demontre une certainesagesse de pensee
en retenant les suggestions du Parti Liberal.Je fais bien entendu reference
entre autre a la carte Pharmacaredont nous en defendons les merites depuis
maintenant plusieursmois, quelques annees, je dirais meme.
Par contre, monsieur le president, c'est avec grands
regretsmais sans surprise que je constate que le negativisme prend deplus en
plus d'ampleur chez les NPD; ce qui est probablement a lasource de leur
etroitesse d'esprit demontree par une critiqueconstante et vide de toute
suggestion corrective. Je parle desNeos
la. Mais je ne voudrais pas m'eloigner
plus longtemps dusujet principal de mes propos qui est le programme que
legouvernement pretend nous presenter dans ce Discours du Trone.
*
(1520)
Monsieur le president, quand je dis
"programme", je suisgenereux, car il n'y a rien dans ce que le
gouvernement nouspresente qui n'ai pas ete mentionne auparavant. En effet, je nevois dans ce Discours du Trone
aucun element determinant, aucuneinnovation ou aucune indication, innovations,
comme la chefliberale avait dit, qui etaient mentionnees neuf fois dans
leDiscours du Trone, mais il n'y a rien de concret, que legouvernement planifie
en terme de mesures economiques orientees asortir les manitobains et les
manitobaines de la recession, unebonne fois pour toute. D'ailleurs, je pense
que le mot"recession" a du sortir du dictionnaire conservateur car,
sauferreur de ma part, il n'apparait pas une seule fois dans leDiscours du
Trone. Comme il serait agreable a tout
le monde,moi‑meme y compris, si le gouvernement pourrait faire
disparaitrela realite aussi facilement qu'il fait disparaitre les mots!
Monsieur le president, le gouvernement parle de mise
enmarche des produits et services du
Monsieur le president, en matiere economique, l'action
d'ungouvernement doit permettre d'aboutir a un certain nombre deresultats. Je crois que le premier resultat
economiquefondamental, c'est de faire du
Mais, il faut egalement se soucier que ces mutations
sefassent dans des conditions telles qu'elles ne creent pas desouffrance tout
le temps.
C'est pourquoi j'attache pour ma part la plus
grandeimportance a ce que l'action sociale du gouvernement soittournee, par
priorite, vers les plus defavorises et vers ceux etcelles qui souffrent a
l'heure actuelle de la transformationnecessaire et indispensable, de notre
economie.
Et puis, il y a un troisieme aspect, que je crois
tresimportant du point de vue economique, c'est de donner al'economie
manitobaine une dimension nationale et internationale.
Bien entendu, j'ai deja traite de cet aspect plus tot ou
jesoulevais le point que cela veut dire un
Tel que je le mentionnais egalement plus tot, il n'est
pasconcevable en matiere economique, de proner une politiqued'echange
commercial orientee singulierement vers un paysetranger meme voisin, tout en
ignorant les provinces et lesterritoires avoisinants et qui se trouvent etre
les autrescomposantes constitutionnelles de notre nation.
Monsieur le president, c'est, pour ma part, ce que je
croisetre l'objectif fondamental, parce que je ne vois, pour uneprovince de la
dimension du Manitoba, que deux issues: ou bien serefermer a nouveau sur elle-meme,
et vivoter, a l'abri deshumeurs americaines de l'accord du Libre-echange, et
parconsequent deperir, ou bien alors etre en mesure de participerpleinement au
marche international, avec ses dimensions actuellesqui s'ouvrent deja, pour
englober non seulement le mondeoccidental et oriental.
Il va de soi que cela suppose une transformation des
esprits,que cela suppose un effort d'investissement considerable, et quecela
suppose des ententes interprovinciales et des creationsd'entreprises de taille
provinciale et nationale dont il existetres peu encore au Manitoba.
Le
En matiere de renouveau economique pour notre province
ils'agit la d'une transformation enorme, et le gouvernementdemontre une
nouvelle fois qu'il craint de ne pas etre en mesurede prevoir et de prevenir
les consequences sociales de cettetransformation.
Monsieur le president, je suis decu du manque
deplanification concrete de la part du gouvernement a creer desemplois. Ce n'est pas assez de proposer que tous les
premiersministres se reunissent prochainement afin d'etudier, encore uneetude,
la reduction des obstacles au commerce interprovincial;ceci n'est simplement
pas assez.
Monsieur le president, je suis soulage d'entendre
legouvernement declarer qu'il est resolu a soutenir et a aider lesfamilles et a
veiller sur les defavorises. La
stabilite socialede notre societe exige d'un gouvernement qu'il prenne les
mesuresnecessaires a proteger les enfants vulnerables. Toutefois, pourle meilleur interet de ces
enfants, je suis convaincu quel'efficacite du Bureau de protection des enfants
ne sera assureeque si ce dernier repond a cette presente Assemblee et non
augouvernement par l'entremise du ministre des services a la famille.
[Translation]
It is, more than anything else, a special privilege to say
afew words on the government's planning as it was presented tothis deliberating
Assembly upon the reading of the Speech fromthe Throne of the fourth session of
the 35th Legislature.
It goes without saying that the government's political
agendais not distinguished by any innovation.
It does not announce anyexceptional measure. It does not provide any breath of hope toManitobans
of glimpsing an escape out of the innumerable and sadperils of the economic
recession.
In any parliamentary system, such as the one whose
advantageswe enjoy here in
Ideological allegiances must serve as the main theme
whileenabling thought not to overreach reality.
The raison d'etre ofour Legislative Assembly, to contribute to the
improvement ofliving conditions of Manitobans, men and women, must be thesource
of inspiration that enables the government and theopposition to complement each
other. Yes, I am going to talkabout that
later. There is no problem, that is
coming up later.I like to attack the government at the outset.
I will not discuss here in a systematic manner
thedifferences between the two sides because this is already
doneregularly. Nevertheless, I would
like to specify that it is therole of the opposition to point out vigorously
and relevantly thegovernment's inadequacies.
Mr. Speaker, in spite of everything, I feel
somewhatdelighted to observe that the government is demonstrating somewisdom by
taking up the Liberal Party's suggestions.
I, ofcourse, am referring among other things to the Pharmacare card,the
merits of which we have been defending for several monthsnow, a few years I
would even say.
On the other hand, it is with a great deal of regret,
butwithout any surprise, that I observe that negativity is growingever greater
among the NDP. This is probably at the
root oftheir narrow‑mindedness as demonstrated by a constant and
emptycriticism regarding any corrective suggestion. I am talkingabout the NDP here. I would not like to digress any longer
fromthe principal topic of my remarks, which is the program that thegovernment
is purporting to present to us in this Speech from theThrone.
* (1530)
Mr. Speaker, when I say "program," I am being
generous forthere is nothing in what the government is presenting to us whichhas
not been mentioned before. In fact, I do
not see in thisSpeech from the Throne any determining component, any
innovationor any indication‑‑innovations which as the Liberal Party
Leadersaid, were mentioned nine times in the Speech from the Throne,but there
is nothing concrete in them‑‑detailing what thisgovernment is
planning in terms of economic measures directed atbringing Manitobans out of
this recession once and for all.
Inaddition, I think that the word "recession" must have been takenfrom
the Conservative dictionary for, unless I am mistaken, itdoes not appear one
single time in the Speech from the Throne.How pleasant it would be for
everyone, including myself, if thegovernment could cause reality to disappear
as easily as itcauses words to disappear.
Mr. Speaker, the government is speaking of the marketing
ofgoods and products in
Mr. Speaker, in the economic sphere, a government's
actionmust make it possible to achieve a certain number of results. Ithink that the first fundamental economic
result is that ofmaking
But we must also be concerned that these changes occur
underconditions that do not always create suffering. That is why, forme, it is of the greatest
importance that the government's socialaction be oriented as a priority towards
the most disadvantagedpeople and towards those persons who are currently
suffering fromthe necessary and indispensable transformation that our economyis
undergoing.
Then there is a third aspect, Mr. Speaker, which I believe
isvery important from the economic point of view, and that isgiving the
Of course, I have already dealt with this aspect earlier
whenI brought up the point that this means a Canada whereinterprovincial
commercial exchange is all too oftennonexistent. This is due among other things to a problem
of anational order, a problem which I will call, the Mulroneyproblem.
[interjection] I see that the member for St. Norbert(Mr. Laurendeau) is in
agreement with my comments there.[interjection] Ah, yes, that is better. That is coming along.
As I mentioned earlier also, it is inconceivable in
economicmatters to praise a policy of commercial exchange that isoriented
solely towards one foreign country, even if it is aneighbouring one, while
ignoring the neighbouring provinces andterritories which are the other
constitutional components of ournation.
This is what I believe to be the fundamental objectivebecause I can only
see, for a province of Manitoba's size, twoways out or two options: one, turn inward again into itself
andstruggle along in the shelter of the American ups and downs ofthe Free Trade
Agreement and consequently waste away, or insteadbe in a position to
participate fully in the international marketwith its current dimensions
already opening up to embrace notonly the western but also the eastern world.
It goes without saying that this presupposes a
transformationof attitudes and that this presupposes a considerable
investmenteffort, Mr. Speaker, and that this presupposes
interprovincialagreements and creation of businesses on a provincial
andnational scale of a kind of which few exist yet in Manitoba.
Mr. Speaker,
In terms of economic renewal for our province, this is
anenormous transformation, and the government is demonstrating onceagain that
it is afraid of not being able to foresee and preventthe social consequences of
this transformation.
Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed by the lack of
concreteplanning on the part of the government in the area of jobcreation. It is not enough to propose that all the
FirstMinisters get together in the near future once again to examinethe
reduction of interprovincial trade barriers.
This simply isnot enough.
I am relieved to hear the government stating its resolve
tomaintain and assist families and to watch over disadvantagedpersons. The social stability of our society requires
that agovernment take the necessary measures to protect
vulnerablechildren. However, in the best
interests of these children, I amconvinced that the efficiency of the office of
the Children'sAdvocate will only be guaranteed if this agency is accountable
tothis Assembly and not the government via the Minister of FamilyServices.
[English]
Mr. Speaker, I also have
to stress once again the criticalneed of confronting elder abuse. Many seniors in
There is at the present time an urgent need to address
thesituation of the lack of shelters for abused elders. Most of thetime, the facilities being used
presently do not respond to theneeds of the seniors with mobility, hearing and
sightimpairment. Thus, I wish the
government would be more explicitin explaining what it means when it says that
it will co‑ordinateresources and develop multidisciplinary teams to
respond to elderabuse concerns throughout the province.
Our elder people in
Avant de conclure Monsieur le president, j'aimerais
souleverun point relatif aux dispositions de la partie III de la loi surla
ville de Winnipeg, un point tres cher aux Franco-Manitobainset aux Franco-Manitobaines
de Saint-Boniface.
Puisque de par une tradition bien respectee, les services
enfrancais sont encore une fois les grands absents du Discours duTrone,
j'espere sincerement que le gouvernement assumera sesresponsabilites vis-a-vis
des residants et des residantes deSaint-Boniface. Les bureaux municipaux du boulevard
Provencher ne peuvent pas et ne doivent pas etre fermes, quoiqu'en pense
etqu'en dise un conseiller municipal a la recherche de publicitegratuite aux
depens des gens de Saint-Boniface.
Dans le domaine juridique, je le repete, il est
tresdeplorable de ne toujours pas avoir de presence francophone a laCour
d'appel du
Le gouvernement parle d'initatives innovatrices afin
destimuler l'economie. Un centre
permanent de traduction juridiquea Saint‑Boniface qui desservirait
l'Ouest canadien estprobablement un tres bon projet pilote pour raviver
l'essoreconomique de la collectivite.
En conclusion Monsieur le president, j'aimerais de
nouveaureconnaitre l'honnetete et la franchise du Premier ministre aimplanter les
suggestions du Parti liberal. Je puis
vous assurerque les deputes liberaux qui siegent dans cette chambrecontinureont
a proposer des resolutions fortes et pertinentesafin de contribuer au
developpement economique, politique etsocial de notre province du Manitoba, y
inclus Saint‑Norbert pourle depute de Saint‑Norbert.
Comme vous pouvez le constater, Monsieur le president,
mescommentaires sont assez brefs, ou d'une longueur proportionnelleau contenu
de la presentation du gouvernement. Pour
de plusamples pensees et reflexions, je vous invite ainsi que tous mescollegues
deputes a vous reporter a mes interventions de laderniere session, car tout
compte fait les Discours du Trone dela 2e, de la 3e ou de la 4e session ne sont
qu'une repetition deverbiage dont je doute que les resultats reduiront la
clientelede Winnipeg Harvest.
[Translation]
Before I conclude, Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring up
apoint regarding the provisions of Part 3 of The City of
Since a well-respected tradition has once again kept
Frenchlanguage services out of the Speech from the Throne, I sincerelyhope that
the government will assume its responsibility vis-à-vis the residents of St.
Boniface. The municipal offices
onProvencher Boulevard cannot and must not be closed whatever acity councillor
in search of free publicity at the expense of thepeople of St. Boniface may
think or say.
In the judicial area, I will repeat that it is
highlydeplorable that there is still no Francophone presence at theCourt of
Appeal level in
Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, I would like once again
toacknowledge the honesty and frankness of the First Minister inimplementing
the Liberal Party's suggestions. I can
assure youthat the Liberal members who are sitting in this Chamber willcontinue
to propose strong and relevant resolutions in order tocontribute to the
economic, political and social development ofour
As you will note, Mr. Speaker, my comments are fairly
briefor at least they are of a length proportionate to the content ofthe
government's presentation. For more
detailed thoughts andreflections, I would invite you and all my colleagues to
refer tomy speeches of the last session because in some the Speeches fromthe
Throne of the second, third or fourth sessions are nothingbut a repetition of
verbiage whose results are unlikely, in myopinion, to reduce the number of
people going to Winnipeg Harvest.
[English]
In conclusion, Mr.
Speaker, I would like to wish every one ofmy colleagues in the Legislature a
Merry Christmas and a HappyNew Year and peace.
Thank you very much.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to
recognizing the honourable member forElmwood, I would like to draw the
attention of honourable membersto the loge to my left, where we have with us
this afternoon Mr.Jim Carr, the former member for Crescentwood.
On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to
welcomeyou here this afternoon, sir.
* * *
Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):
Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased tospeak to the Throne Speech Debate for
this session. As I lookaround, I see
some people who I am glad are here to listen to myremarks. I do not see some people who I wish were here
who needthe benefit of the remarks, but I am hopeful that they will showup.
Mr. Speaker, this throne speech is really a mirror of
whatthis government is all about. There
is absolutely nothing inthis throne speech.
There is nothing in this throne speech thatis worthy of even calling a
session of the Legislature for. Whenwe
look at the bills that this government has so far introducedto the House, we
see very, very minor amendments to The InsuranceAct. We see a number of other very minor
changes. It is veryclear to me that this
government really has no plans for thefuture.
The one exception is the Sunday shopping bill that
thisgovernment plans to bring in, and that to me, Mr. Speaker, is nota sign of
progress in any sense. In fact, it is a
knee-jerk reaction. This government is
pretty well the last group that Iwould have thought that would have embraced
wide‑open Sundayshopping in this province. I think that these members must havebeen
dragged kicking and screaming into line on this particularposition, because
when one looks at what the wide-open Sundayshopping is going to do to the
people who they represent, to thesmall retailers in their constituencies, they
really must havebeen bamboozled in a major way by their leadership over there
tofollow this one blindly through. The
fact of the matter is, Mr.Speaker, that this particular initiative was taken
without anypublic debate on the matter.
There was no public debate at all.
(Mrs.
Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)
In fact, just days before the opening of the Legislature
thegovernment announces that it is going to arbitrarily open Sundayshopping on
the 29th of November, I believe it was, and we areexpected in this House to
debate the bill starting tomorrow andto retroactively pass legislation allowing
Sunday shopping totake place. That is
absolutely abhorrent to me that thisgovernment would have at the last minute
announced thislegislation and been put in a position to retroactively pass
thismeasure. One would have thought that
if this government had anysense of planning at all that they would have
conducted publichearings months ago, that they would have had a full airing
ofthe issue in the public and that they would have brought it in inthe form
that they were going to bring it in after they had gonethrough that public
debate process.
It seems to me that the government will pay ultimately
forthis decision, because I will be looking with great interest aswill the
other members on this side of the House to whether ornot the Premier (Mr.
Filmon) is able to drag along each of his 30members on this issue.
In effect, what we are doing here certainly in the long
termwill devastate small businesses in this province, Madam DeputySpeaker.
I start with the rural businesses. The rural businesseswithin driving distance
of Winnipeg will be facing‑‑if you thinkthat we are in a depression
now, wait until you see what willhappen after a couple of years of wide-open
Sunday shopping aspeople drive in from Stonewall, Gimli and other centres, most
ofwhich the members opposite represent, will come in on Sunday toshop and will
be buying their whole week's supply of groceriesand goods in Winnipeg. If the members think that that somehowbuilds
the fabric of
The government likes to maintain that the employees will
beable to make their own decisions on this matter and that theywill not be
forced to work Sunday. Let me tell you,
Madam DeputySpeaker, that when employers are hiring employees, from now onthey
will be checking in advance, they will be asking during theinterviews as to
what the people's attitudes are on Sundayshopping. If the attitudes do not conform in a positive
sensewith what the employer wants, then those people will be passedover for
jobs, so do not tell me that you will take care ofprotecting employees by this
legislation, because it is not goingto happen.
Another area that the government promises responsibility
inon this legislation is that they are planning to reassess thisquestion after
five months.
Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I think most of here know
thatonce this trial period is over, this will not be revisited. Thewhole issue will not be reassessed, and we
will not see thesituation rolled back to where we were before this initiative
was announced.
*
(1540)
Once Sunday shopping is a part of the normal activities
herein
What this government is really saying is that heart
attackswill not be optional at 50 anymore.
They will be mandatory,because with the advent of the video lottery
terminals andwide-open gambling which, by the way, the Liberals seemed to
beembracing today in Question Period, with the advent of 24-hour,wide-open
gambling, with 24-hour, wide-open shopping, what we areseeing is a society that
is moving around so fast that people whoare now being driven to distraction,
nervous breakdowns and heartattacks will be not having them at 55 anymore. They will behaving them at 50.
This government is destroying the fabric of society,
MadamDeputy Speaker. The members
opposite are making some noise hereand I have not heard what they have to say.
[interjection] Well,the members opposite are having fun once again, and they
willhave plenty of opportunities to participate‑‑
Point of Order
Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Madam Deputy Speaker,I wonder if my
honourable friend would permit a question.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Would
the honourable member for Elmwoodpermit a question?
Mr. Maloway: Madam
Deputy Speaker, I certainly will permit asmany questions as the Minister of
Health or anybody else wants toask after I am finished.
* * *
Mr. Maloway: I have a
way to go before I am finished with thiscrowd, because they know what they are
doing to
I would ask these members opposite to try working on
Sundayand having to go through that situation.
I think that once theytry it, looking at it from the other standpoint,
the standpointof the employee, once they have to deal with it from
theemployee's standpoint, they would not be so encouraged to go onwith this
measure.
So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I think that this is not a
veryhelpful initiative that this government is taking, and our caucuswill have
much more to say about it beginning tomorrow and in thenext coming days, as our
critics take the initiative here andpoint out what this government is really up
to with the Sundayshopping and the detrimental effects that this measure is
goingto have.
The government falsely assumes that somehow consumers
aregoing to have more money to spend. In
a recession out in thesociety right now, we are seeing people who are earning
atminimum wage and little above minimum wage who are having adifficult time
making their money go far right now.
These peopleare now able to spend their money in a five‑day cycle,
in asix‑day cycle in the stores.
All we are asking this person to dois take their normal salary of
$20,000, $25,0000 a year andspread it over to another day. The costs to the business aregoing to increase
because the business people will have to spendmore on their overheads and more
for labour and more expensesbeing open on Sunday.
This would be a fine argument if somehow people were
going tohave more money to spend. If
somehow people were going to havean extra $1,000 or $2,000 to spend at the end
of the month, thenone could perhaps argue that somehow having an extra day to
spendthis money is necessary but, Madam Deputy Speaker, I can tell youthat most
people I know have no problem spending all of theirmoney and more in the hours
that the stores are open at thecurrent time.
People do not have trouble getting into debt inmajor ways right now, so
this is a false argument.
The idea of a day of rest is another major issue
here. Ihave heard from members of
churches; I have heard from justmembers of the general public who are very
upset because thiswill destroy the one day that they have as a family right
now.People in this day and age are having a difficult time as it is,having a
day during the week, or two days during the week withtheir families, and now
with Saturday being pretty well a fullshopping day, people have been cut down
to one day a week withtheir families.
Now we are going to take even that one day awayfrom them, or jeopardize
that one day, and it will be that muchmore difficult for them to‑‑
An Honourable Member: They do
not have to go shopping, Jim.
Mr. Maloway: The
member opposite says, well, people do not haveto shop, and that is true, they
do not have to shop on a Mondayor Tuesday either, but the fact of the matter is
that the memberdoes not recognize that they do have to work. That is part ofthe issue here, that we are
going to force people to work onSundays to allow this extra day, so that he and
the other membersopposite can, in a more leisurely manner, spend their money
thanthey are right now.
The whole question of the businesses. I mean, thisgovernment maintains very loudly
that it listens to business,that it understands business. You will hear this from them allthe
time. In fact, of the chambers of
commerce in
The other question too, I suppose, is that a lot of
peoplewho shop in the States were doing it not necessarily for theprices but
for the novelty of it and the outing.
Once thenovelty wears off‑‑and I mean driving 60 miles or
whatever tosave a couple of dollars I do not think is really the reason whya
lot of people go there. I would think
that over a period oftime that the whole fad will die out and that people will
not doas much shopping there as they did in the short run.
Another reason that the government made this move in
myopinion is because of the drop in retail sales. They look atthese figures and say, oh, my
God, the opposition are going to beraising Cain with us now because retail
sales have dropped and itis all our fault because we are the government and we
are drivingthe province into a recession that will never stop. The fact ofthe matter is that the retail
sales drop is due to the recessionthat is upon us right now. If and when the recession ends or
thedepression ends that we are in right now, then the retail saleswill move
back to their previous levels. I have no
problems withthat.
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I have dealt with the whole area of the retroactivity of
thisquestion, and I am very unhappy about that because this is beingpresented
to us as a fait accompli. I mean we are
not in aposition, and I might tell you that a couple of years ago when Idid
suggest to the government that they change the laws in acouple of instances in
The Business Names Registration Act tohelp out in The Brick situation, the
Attorney General of the day,the current Attorney General (Mr. McCrae) said to
me, oh, well,we cannot do that because retroactivity in legislation issomething
that we would never consider, that retroactivelegislation is not something that
governments like, governmentsnever do.
They could count the times that retroactivelegislation was used on the
fingers of one hand this century,something to that effect and that we would
never do that. Well,here, Madam Deputy
Speaker, we have a situation where thegovernment is in fact endeavouring to do
something.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I did want to deal with
thederegulation in the airline industry and the situation that
hasresulted. It came about as the result
of the initiatives of thisgovernment and the Liberals. By the way, I think the opportunityhas come
to deal with the Liberal Party here, the diminishing,disappearing Liberal Party
that is now down another member andnow the Liberal Party is leaderless and
rudderless. So far wehave one aspirant,
the member for
As a matter of fact, my colleague from Dauphin (Mr.
Plohman)tells me that the Liberals are not only rudderless, but they haveno
boat. The Liberals are facing absolute
disaster here, wherewith a leadership convention planned, I believe it was for
April1 or some such time, they have had to postpone the leadershipconvention
because they have one person that even wants theleadership. They cannot even interest a second person in
theleadership of the Liberal Party, so I think we can say goodbye tothe Liberal
Party. I do not know whether we want to
have acollection for them and give them a going‑away present or evenwhen
we should have the going-away party, but the member forInkster is bound and
determined to bury the remnants of theLiberal Party. We wish him well.
I tell you that I personally support the member for
Inksterin his endeavours. I support him
all the way to the leadershipof the Liberal Party and beyond. I wish him well. I know thatthe Minister of Natural Resources
(Mr. Enns) is quick to say, notnow, Kevin; but we say, now, Kevin, go for
it. We are all foryou, Kevin. We wish the member for
Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that our time is near, and
we must‑‑my time is near and I must move on to allow my colleague
tomake his speech. With that, I would
leave you until the nextspeech.
Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am pleasedto be able
to have the opportunity to address the throne speechthis afternoon. With our limited time, I would like to touch
ona few of the topics from the throne speech that relate to myconstituency and
to some of the things that are occurring in myconstituency.
First of all, I would like to welcome, as other members
have,the new Pages that we have in the Assembly, and I wish them wellin their
endeavours through this session in putting up with thedifferent idiosyncrasies
and the game-show politics that wesometimes provide for the people here in the
Assembly. To thenew members who have
been elected just in the past by-election, Iwould like to welcome the member
for Crescentwood (Ms. Gray), andI would also like to wish her well in her
return to theAssembly. I would like to
also, and more importantly, like tooffer my heartiest congratulations to the
new elected member forPortage (Mr. Pallister).
I have a soft spot in my background andin my heart, my sport side of me,
welcoming the member forPortage la Prairie.
I had the opportunity through the many yearsto participate against and,
at times, watch the honourable memberpitch in fastball over the years. His contribution to Manitobasoftball and his
competitiveness, also his participation inCanadian tournaments and, again, wish
you well in your endeavourshere.
To the Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs), I
wouldlike to just say that I wish her well with her announcement,Madam Deputy
Speaker. I think that she has added many
positivethings to this Chamber. I know
in the two-plus years I have hadthe opportunity to be in this House, I have
gained a tremendousamount of respect. I
wish her well and her family when she doesdecide that time is ending and again
I wish her well.
Madam Deputy Speaker, just lately also we have had the
latestannouncement of one of our members, the past member forRupertsland
leaving the Assembly to go on to different things.In the two-plus years and
with the aboriginal issues that areamongst us now, I think that Mr. Harper was
a man who had histrue, true spirit for the aboriginal people and spoke well
forthem. He gave me lots of insight as
to the problems and theconcerns that the aboriginal people have here in this
province.
With eight reserves within my constituency, Madam
DeputySpeaker, Mr. Harper took time out to meet with me and the chiefsand
councils and go to different functions amongst my aboriginalconstituents. I thank him for that, and especially the one
timethat he took time out from his busy schedule when he and I,through some
adverse weather, took the opportunity to go toArborg and speak before the
Arborg Collegiate students. I wish him
well, and I thank him very kindly for his participation andsupport for myself
and my constituency and the aboriginal peoplewithin the Interlake.
Madam Deputy Speaker, as far as the throne speech goes,
Ihave certain concerns that were brought up.
I would like torelate some of those concerns again and some of the
problems thatwe are facing in my constituency.
I hope that this governmentrecognizes the problems, not only in my
constituency butthroughout
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One that I find very interesting, and I know that it had
beendiscussed before, Madam Deputy Speaker, was the part of thethrone speech
that this government has promised to enact newregulations that will impose
substantially higher standards fornew installations and will require testing
existing facilitiesand clean up of sites.
That is contamination caused by petroleumproduct leaks and we now are
dealing with an issue, a veryserious concerned issue in the community of
Ashern.
I know I have brought it up in the House here. I think it isa very, very important
issue. The people in Ashern, some 20
to25 or 30 people right now, are having water brought into them sothat they can
bathe, so that they can drink, so that they canhave water for their coffee,
Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope thatwith
this type of legislation, depending on when and if and howthis government does
implement this act, will prevent andassist.
I think that is the issue right here and now regardlessof putting in
some act to prevent something in the future andhave some sort of control over
these things, it should be donenow. The
assistance should be there now.
Now I must say that in the past few months, the people
ofAshern have been put again against the wall and have waited forthe last two
years with this problem. They have come
to thegovernment, they have come to the federal government, to assistin helping
them so that they can have proper drinking water orrestructure a new drinking
water program that they want toimplement within the community.
I would like to think that this government, who talks
aboutinitiative and who talks about the doing and the wanting to do,will act,
will do. The people of Ashern have been
waiting, MadamDeputy Speaker, as I have said, for two years for this, forsomething,
for some assistance, and all they have received ispromises to look into it.
I hope that under this particular act that we are able
toassist my community, the community of Ashern, and others, as wehave seen in
Stonewall, that there can be some action taken sothat we can have legislation
intact that will prevent this typeof thing and will also ensure that if it does
happen, the peoplewho are responsible are going to deal with it and are going
to bedealt with. So again, it is a
problem. It is something thatthey intend
to propose. I would like to see the
government
The throne speech indicates that the government
willimplement necessary measures to control and properly dispose ofhazardous
wastes and, not only that, but the waste managementburden in small communities,
small municipalities such as mine.Right now we are dealing with this problem
right throughout thewhole eastern part of the Interlake. We have four or five or sixcommunities who
are in desperate need of landfill sites anddirection to take, and again, are we
getting any action? Are wegoing to get
any action from this government to be able to assistthese municipalities and
these governments and communities to goahead and have safe waste management
areas so that they can taketheir landfill waste and take their community
garbage as such sothat there is some protection for the people and protection
forthe natural resources within our community?
Madam Deputy Speaker, the gas that they have talked
about,natural gas, I know that the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr.Downey) had
made some comments, and I think we on this side ofthe House are strong
advocates in that part of the thronespeech.
I think the necessity for rural
The people are looking for ways to improve their social
andtheir economic benefits, rural benefits.
I think natural gasgasification would be a plus to the communities. I think itwould be a certain plus to not only
the community of Riverton andthe community of Arborg, the community of Ashern
and FisherBranch, I think the other communities in the rural areas wouldbenefit
greatly. It would be able to provide
them with access tobe able to go out and have something for the people in
thecommunity to go out and bring in economic development withintheir community,
to be able to go out to some manufacturing firm,to be able to go out to any
manufacturing company and say, we canprovide you with the natural gas‑‑but
action.
Now, we within the Interlake, Madam Deputy Speaker, and
Ibelieve since 1989, we have approached this government. I waspart and parcel, in 1989, when we came
to talk to the formerRural Development minister, the member for Emerson (Mr.
Penner).We spoke to him on this and made a proposal, along with theInterlake
Development Corporation, on a dehydration plant, andthe community has moved
very, very strongly.
We talk about what the Premier (Mr. Filmon) says as far
asinitiative again and doing things and investing in ourselves.Madam Deputy
Speaker, the communities around Arborg and farmersand producers around Arborg
have worked diligently for two andone half years, three years, in providing a
study, providing aneffort to be able to bring a dehydration plant within
theInterlake between Teulon and Arborg.
Gasification would besomething that would assist that plant along,
create jobs, some20 to 30 jobs, would bring in economic benefit within
thecommunity, to within the whole area.
We are saying that it is anecessity for the dehydration plant to go
ahead. It is anecessity.
I am saying to the honourable members across the way that
letus act on the things that they are supposedly going to do. Wewant to see it. I want to see it. I think all members here seeit. But what are we going to see? Are we going to see anything?
I think, generally, if you try and read around the
thronespeech, we are not really sure, we are not positive, this is whatwe are
thinking of doing. I am saying, let us
do, let us actwith what you are proposing here; and, if you are not, as in
someof the other initiatives in the past throne speech that we haveheard, then
why put it in? Why make promises? Act.
Madame Deputy Speaker, again we have a certain amount
ofproposed changes to the Natural Resources part of things. Youknow, we, the minister and I, have sat a
few times and discussedcertain things in my community, within the whole
province, as faras problems through Natural Resources. I have brought problemsto the minister from
within my own constituency, big problems.He knows what the problems are.
I think this may relate somewhat to the budget. I promisedthe minister, and I think I am
going to follow up on my promisein making a comment in the throne speech, and
again in the budgetdebate I will bring this up, the fact that natural resources
area tremendous commodity, a tremendous resource to our Interlakeand to the
province of Manitoba.
There are needs out there for Natural Resources within
theparks, within the fishing industry, within the water resources,and I had
promised the minister that I would make mention of thefact that we hope that
Treasury Board and cabinet and seniormanagement would look towards the Natural
Resources departmentwith being able to fund the natural resources area, not to
takeaway but to assist and put the funds and the money where it isneeded for
natural resources.
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Natural resources and tourism within the Interlake and
withinmany parts of the province go hand in hand. We need certainresources. We need control of the parks, and the
ministerhimself says when I come to him with a problem within theconstituency
relating to the drainage system‑‑I would venture,not to guess, but
I would venture to say that 500-plus acresalone in my community, in my
constituency this year, were underwater because of the drainage situation.
[interjection] Ofcourse, a wet year‑‑we understand that to a point,
but theminister himself understands and realizes‑‑he sees the
problem.I have brought the problems to him.
Funding is not there. It iscuts.
I am saying to the government that when the time comes
forthe budget, that natural resources, Madam Deputy Speaker, not beleft to the
side, not be left on the back burner, but come in andassist.
I would just like to encourage again, and let the
ministerknow that the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk)‑‑and I
havespoken to her about it‑‑and the member for Dauphin (Mr.
Plohman),the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie), we want to see the
NaturalResources department be a department and be a part of thisprovince, that
it is recognized as being an important part ofthis province.
Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, with some of the comments, and
Iguess we can go back to the conference some two or three weeksago that the
minister and I attended.
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
I had the opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to be involved with
thethree-day conference, listening to the fishermen, the aboriginalpeople and
all the fishermen throughout the province, throughoutSaskatchewan,
representatives from the Northwest Territories,representatives from Alberta,
Saskatchewan, Manitoba wantingtheir fishing industry to be seriously looked at,
not only by thepresent Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), but federally.
Through that three-day conference, Mr. Speaker, I
heardconcerns, concerns with the marketing of their fish, and I thinkthat the
concerns were put forth, resolutions were broughtforth. People were able to make presentations as to
the dilemmathat the fishermen are facing now and have been facing for
someyears, as the grain farmers and as other commodities, the lack ofmarketing,
the lack of price for their product.
At the conference, the delegation and all the
representativeshad requested that the present minister assist with being able
toprovide some access to a better system, to have the FreshwaterMarketing
Corporation looked at, looked at for the reasons thatthe fishermen are giving
us.
Mr. Speaker, coming from and hearing day in and day out
aboutsome of the problems that fishermen have, the marketing systemright now is
perhaps failing certain areas of the fishingindustry. It may be failing the northern
fisheries. It may befailing the Lake
Winnipegosis fisheries,
Mr. Speaker, that may, in fact, be a start in some
aspects.I wonder, and I hope that the minister, before these amendmentsare
brought forth, listens to all the fishermen, not just in acertain area over on
this side or a certain area on that side,but throughout the fishing industry,
the northern fishingindustry.
There are bigger problems than marketing their fish
innorthern
Mr. Speaker, I think that is one of the messages that I
gotloud and clear. If you open up the
market, not everyone is goingto benefit.
If you open up the market, how is it going to becontrolled? I have to say, that I have to, myself as with
theMinister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), listen to the advisoryboard and
have to listen to fishermen make their presentations onthis. Is it really going to be the right way to go
for everyone,or are there other concerns that this present minister and
thispresent government could address immediately to assist thefishermen
throughout
Mr. Speaker, throughout the three days, one of the
mainpoints that I had heard from the fishermen in my constituency wasthe fact
that they did not have proper representation from theFreshwater Marketing
Corporation. Granted, that perhaps
issomething that should be seriously looked at through the advisoryboard and
the Freshwater Marketing Corporation. I
think itshould be looked at.
The aboriginal people themselves feel that they do not
haveenough representation on the board, on a board that is veryimportant to them
in how their fish are sold or marketed.
Is itworth it for these fishermen to even go out and fish through
aseason? The costs are outrageous. The price for their fish isnonexistent. Whether this new amendment and legislation
that theMinister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) and this government isgoing to
bring in is going to be the answer to all answers, Iwould think that he should,
in fact, very seriously consider allthe pros and cons of bringing in an
amendment to this act about asituation that the fishermen are in.
One of the two other main points, freight assistance,
freightsubsidy. I think the minister
will remember that in a session in1990 I brought this before him, after the
first budget, after wehad been elected and our first budget. I was not really too sureof how the whole
system worked. We met with fishermen,
who werevery concerned because this government was going to cut somehundred and
some‑odd thousand dollars off the
The costs were outrageous, so I would think that the
ministershould, in fact, when he is looking at implementing this act toallow
the fishermen to sell to anyone, look at the other issuesand the other problems
that are facing our commercial fishermenin this province.
I would hope that the minister in his wisdom or in
hisposition would and is going to insist that the northern freightallowance be
stepped up, be increased so that the fishermen innorthern Manitoba, who have to
transport their fish at greatdistance, at great cost, are in fact assisted and
helped so thatwhen they do get their payments for it their costs have
beensubsidized so they have something that they can take home withthem. Now they have nothing.
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Now, a lot of these fishermen in northern
I think the other aspect of the problems that the
fishermenhave is with the loan program.
Since the loan program waschanged in 1990, '91, I get many, many
complaints about thesystem. I think that
the loan program falling under the Ministerof Northern Affairs' (Mr. Downey)
responsibility‑‑he shouldreally go out and hear what the fishermen
are saying as far asthe system goes with the loan program. The whole program seemsto be lacking in
expediency, seems to be lacking as far asavailability, seems to be lacking in
many situations.
People who need that assistance, that loan program must
knowin plenty of time whether they are going to receive, what theyare going to
receive, how much they have applied for.
The seasonis starting and some of them are not receiving any comment as
towhether they are going to receive the money, when it is coming.
These fishermen cannot go to the local supplier of
equipmentand take out and purchase any equipment, because they are notsure
about the program. They are not sure if
the money is goingto come to them. I
think it is a serious note. Fishermen
arelimited. Not only are they limited to
the amount of money thatis available to them, now they are limited and put on
the backburner because there is no action taken when they are in a loanprogram.
The loan program, I think, out of Thompson, has been in
placenow for a year and a half, and fishermen are more in the darkwith this
program. I think between the freight
subsidy, betweenthe loan program and the marketing end of it, I would say to
theMinister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) and the Minister ofNorthern Affairs
(Mr. Downey) in this government to seriouslylook into the problems that the
commercial fishermen are havingwithin our province. I would think that would be a start as
tohearing what they have to say.
I mean, Mr. Speaker, I have already been receiving
commentsjust in the last week from different areas with concern as tothis
amendment that the minister is proposing for selling fish tostores and
restaurants.
An Honourable Member: You mean
your fishermen do not like it?
Mr. Clif Evans: Not all
the fishermen. There is a problem
outthere. There is a concern out
there. I am saying to theminister, I am
talking about a fair majority. This is
theconcern I am hearing‑‑[interjection] Well, the Minister
ofAgriculture (Mr. Findlay) talks about this.
Just this pastweekend I spoke with some fishermen, and the majority of
thefishermen are saying that the Freshwater Marketing Corporationshould be
looked at. Also, a majority are saying
that they wouldwant to see this whole act and how it is going to be done
beforeit is gone. Before it goes through
legislation, they want tosee. I have
quotes here about certain concerns. I am
not afisherman. I am saying what I hear.
The honourable Minister of Highways (Mr. Driedger) is
sayingfor me to put it on the record. I
am saying what I hear from thepeople. It
is not my personal opinion to express.
It is anopinion to express what my constituents are saying, and
thefishermen. Again, I would say before
and during the negotiationswith this amendment there should be some serious
consultationbetween the fishermen and the government. That is what I ask andthat is what I say.
Mr. Speaker, I did not have the opportunity to also offer
mycongratulations and best wishes to you as the other members inour House have
done so gallantly and elegantly. I know
that yourco-operation and support for all members here is
trulyappreciated. I know it is by myself
and other members here onthis side of the House.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that my time is limited, so I
wouldjust like in closing to say to the government, on the thronespeech,
instead of smoke and mirrors, instead of a study, thecommunities in Manitoba
and rural Manitoba, the communities in myconstituency are taking the initiative
to go ahead with differentthings so that we can provide economic benefit. My communityalone, Riverton, has been working
very diligently in taking theinitiative, taking the steps toward providing and
increasing theeconomic viability within their own system. They are going aheadwith a plan to restore
Main Street Riverton, a plan that has beenin place for a few years, has come to
the government action. Ithink we want to
see some action‑‑not promises, but some action.
Some of these other issues will be brought up during
budget.Again, I encourage the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns)that the
support is here from this member to be able to providethat minister with more‑‑from
this member to the minister sayingI will push and I will say and I will speak
up when the timecomes during budget debate to make sure that the minister
haswithin his portfolio and his department the funds that are neededto be able
to provide this province with the proper funding to beable to keep our natural resources,
which in fact also providefor tourism to be able to have those funds.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to in closing say to all
themembers of the House, my colleagues and members of the secondopposition and
to government members a very Merry Christmas andthe best of the New Year
season, and to you, Sir, to all thePages and new members, thank you very much.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, as I have said on anumber of
occasions in the past, it is always a pleasure for meto rise in response to one
of the major debates in the House, thethrone speech and the budget.
Although I am now embarking on my 14th year in
thisLegislature, I still get that old thrill, that same old feelingwhen I stand
up and have an opportunity to participate in one ofthese debates in which, I
think, members on both sides of theHouse have an opportunity to talk about
their philosophies, theirhopes, their goals, their aspirations for the future
of thisprovince and to be able to have a bit of a freewheelingdiscussion about
the things that separate us in terms of ourapproach to government and our
principles and our priorities.
I just want to, as is traditional, welcome you back to
yourposition in this House as the arbiter of all the matters thatprevail in
this House. You have always been, I
believe,fair‑minded, showing an equal treatment to both sides of
theHouse. I compliment you for that, and
I wish you well in yourcontinued endeavours.
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I would like to welcome, of course, the new Pages to
theLegislature. They are in their first
days in this House and justexperiencing the great thrills of being a part of
this wonderfulprocess. I am always
reminded of the story that says that peoplewho enjoy sausage and laws should
not watch either of them beingmade.
This, of course, is true here.
Sometimes with all of theantics that carry on in this House,
particularly in QuestionPeriod, I do not think that tender newcomers ought to
be exposedto this without at least a little bit of briefing to make surethat
they understand how the process works. I
know, Sir, thatyou have done that for them.
I welcome, of course, all members back to the House and
paymy respects to the former member for Rupertsland who regrettablyannounced
his resignation before I was able to speak in thisthrone speech. I certainly join all members in the House
inwishing him well, in extending our very best wishes in whateverhe chooses to
pursue. That does not mean that our good
wisheswill go so far as to supporting him should he run in anotherelection at
another level, but we certainly will indeed rememberhis many contributions and,
particularly, the personal relationsthat we had with him as a member of this
House.
I can remember numerous occasions in which all
membersgathered, his quiet but very effective sense of humour, and theway in
which he interacted with us was always a very positive andenjoyable
experience. His contributions to the
House willcertainly be remembered by many people in this province andcertainly
those of us who knew him well.
I would certainly, as well, like to welcome to
theLegislature two new members. I will
begin with the memberopposite, the member for Crescentwood (Ms. Gray), who is
not astranger to this House, and say that despite the fact that againI have to
admit I did not work for her, I certainly accept thewill of the people. I am above all a great adherent to
thedemocratic process, and I welcome her back to the Legislature. Imight say that the former member for
Crescentwood is sitting inthe gallery observing her behaviour today. I am not sure if heis here to hear me speak
or to watch her reaction to my speech,but in either case we are delighted to
have her back and to haveher contributions.
I might say that I read her contributions tothe Throne Speech Debate and
thought that she handled herselfvery well.
I certainly did not expect her to be light in her
criticismof our side of the House, but I appreciated the fact that shefound
something to criticize in both the New Democrats and theConservatives. In that, I think that she was balanced. That isprobably better than we can expect
from some people in thisHouse, so we will accept that as a step in the right
direction,Mr. Speaker.
I also welcome, of course, with great enthusiasm the
memberof the Legislature for
I know that he has had, as I say, much experience in a
widevariety of areas. Like myself, he
happens to be one who is verydevoted to sports, a great enthusiast for
sports. You can tellby, of course, our
stature that both of us are basketball players.
I might say, as well, that when I was in Toronto as part
ofour delegation for the Pan Am Games, I might have influenced avote when I
told the representative of softball in the Pan AmGames that we had a new member
of the Legislature by the name ofPallister from Portage la Prairie. He said he knew him well, infact, had coached
a team that competed against him when themember for
So I hope that little bit of reference resulted in
ourgetting the one vote that decided the‑‑I am not sure, but we
mayhave had the vote already, Mr. Speaker, but in any case, themember is well
known beyond the borders of this Legislature andthis province.
I see that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) is
alreadychallenging us to a baseball competition. [interjection] Well, wewill
take it one at a time. We will go squash
first and then wewill go basketball, then we will go baseball, and if you have
anyenergy left then we will take you on in hockey. [interjection]Oh, it is
winter.
Well, that reminds me of the story that used to be told
hereabout a certain member opposite. I
remember this was the firstspeech I ever heard given by the member for Arthur
(Mr. Downey).He talked about Lloyd Axworthy when he was on the other side ofthe
House and how he was on the one hand and on the other hand.He said he reminded
him of an old farm hand he had when in thewintertime he would tell everybody
what a great baseball playerhe was, and in the summertime he would tell
everybody what agreat hockey player he was, Mr. Speaker.
In any case, Mr. Speaker, moving on to the throne
speechwhich I believe is my task at hand, it certainly gives us theopportunity
to examine and to debate and discuss the immediateand the long‑term plans
of the government of Manitoba. I am
verypleased to have heard the comments of many of the membersopposite in the
Assembly. I am particularly pleased to
be ableto respond to some of those comments and those contributionsbecause I
think, as I said earlier, it is a speech and it is adebate in which we
definitely see the partisan divisions betweenthe two sides of the House.
From our perspective, the throne speech provides a
clearvision for the future of
Many of us have had to face the problems, sit down
withfriends, with family, with neighbours, and deal with situationsthat we
never believed would happen to the people who seem tohave been in the prime of
their working lives and all of a suddenbecause of major shifts in the world are
in a difficult positionthat they never anticipated. But merely dwelling on the problemsand, in
fact, taking some partisan delight out of pointing outthe worst of them to the
media in interviews or in QuestionPeriod does nothing to help find solutions
for tomorrow.
All of us on this side of the House know that, when our
NewDemocratic friends take great glee in sowing the seeds of gloomand doom,
they are really working to ensure that Manitobans reapa barren harvest, because
all of us know, and I know teachersknow in particular, educators know, that
when you tell someonetime and time again that they are going to fail, then
surely,inevitably they do fail. There is
no encouragement forManitobans when we look at the contributions that have been
madein this Throne Speech Debate and in Question Periods of recenttime; there
is no encouragement for Manitobans given by the NDP.
But, no matter what the New Democrats might say,
Manitobansare strong. Manitobans are out
there working, and Manitobanshave great resilience that will see us continue to
fight the goodfight and, indeed, ultimately when the recession is behind us,succeed
again in the future. We see glimmers of
that comingforward, more of them in recent times‑‑a number of
announcements.
We all took great delight, and I compliment both
oppositionparties for taking a positive view of the announcement on the PanAm
Games because it is something that will do many things forManitoba. It will leave a lasting legacy of physical
works:additions such as a new baseball stadium; a new field house
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Secondarily, and I do not think it should be
secondarily,almost $140 million of spending that takes place in the provinceof
Manitoba‑‑tremendous economic boom to the province. Inaddition to that, as many as 2,000 full‑time
and part‑timejobs‑‑very positive things. Of course, who can put a value onthe
intangible of the volunteer spirit and the sense oftogetherness that once again
it will give our province? TheLeader of
the Opposition (Mr. Doer) referred to Jim Daly.
Iremember his slogan, Total Community Involvement, that he coinedin 1967
that was so much a part of the enjoyment of the PanAmerican Games.
Then again on Thursday, ISM Manitoba, Information
SystemsManagement Corporation, announced that it was purchasing
AtlasInternational
I was, this summer, at a class reunion in
By some of these announcements, the people in
thetechnologies, in engineering, will now have greater opportunitiesfor
employment here at home in
But these accomplishments that I am talking about have
onething in common. Their success has
been the result of Manitobanstaking action, working and succeeding, and in each
instance, weas a government have been pleased to have a role in support ofthese
efforts, to encourage, to work alongside Manitobans to helpmake their dreams
and their aspirations come true. I am
veryproud that if our efforts have made any positive contribution,that the end
result will be more opportunities for Manitobans.
Mr. Speaker, the throne speech is also realistic in
settingManitoba's goals and action plans, and this too is very, veryimportant
because to date, realism, I think, has been a scarcecommodity from some of the
opposition benches.
I for one and all of my colleagues would not try to
foolManitobans into believing that there could be short‑term, quickfixes
to our economy. That is precisely the
message that is inthe throne speech, is that no matter what 10‑second
clips mightbe thrown out by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), thereare
no quick fixes to this economy.
I could take great delight in reading to him some, I
think,very intelligent and very thoughtful remarks made by NewDemocratic
Leaders who happen to be in government, premiers suchas Romanow and Rae, people
who have to practise responsibility,who cannot afford the quick fix, the ten‑second‑clip
mentalitythat we see too often from the benches opposite, and the remarksthat
they are making about how difficult it is to make choices,to make priority
decisions in the economy that we are facing andwhat it means to government.
They have seen, as I have seen, what is happening in
theworld around us. They, like I, have
been to other countries,observed the dramatic changes that countries throughout
the worldare struggling to cope with today, quantum shifts taking placethat
have never been seen before.
It is absolutely clear that we cannot simply rely on the
oldshibboleths, that we cannot just simply repeat the kind of oldslogans and
the old solutions that were tried before.
Thoseoutdated thinking approaches are not going to solve thechallenges
that face us for the 1990s.
The old ways of government intervention that have been
toutedas solutions by members opposite just do not work today. Theworld has changed, and it is continuing to
change at a rapidpace. Yesterday's
solutions will not work today, particularlythose solutions that did not even
work yesterday.
Mr. Speaker, most of us in this Chamber and probably all
ofthe taxpayers in
I find it interesting when I go back into my archives to
seethat the Leader of the Opposition in those days, of course, didunderstand
that. He did know that. He did talk about it many,many times. I have quoted him on it before, but I will
quote himagain, just in case there has been any loss of memory.
I will tell you, the reason that I have to quote him
again‑‑Iwould not have done that‑‑but I read in the
Winnipeg Free Pressof November 16, 1992, and I quote: Doer‑‑and this was coverageof his
major speech to the party's annual meeting, and it says,and I quote: Doer compared his economic blueprint to the
JobsFund Howard Pawley's NDP government launched in 1983.
Now I found that really difficult to accept because in
1983,when Doer‑‑and I should not refer to him‑‑the
member forConcordia (Mr. Doer) was the then‑president of the
ManitobaGovernment Employees' Association, this is what he said of theNDP Jobs
Fund, quote: It is bloody immoral in my
mind. That iswhat he said.
Here is the rest of it.
Doer went on to further criticizethe NDP government for its Jobs Fund,
which he likened to thegovernment dropping people who fix potholes on the
highways inorder to hire people to count flowers along the roadside.
That is what he thought of the Jobs Fund in 1983, and he
saidfurther: The government does not
understand the differencebetween a make‑work job and a structured
economy. Any economistwill tell you that
a structured job is more beneficial to theeconomy. That was from the
Well, Mr. Speaker, that is not an example of what
thisprovince needs, and that is old‑think being revisited andregurgitated
and certainly not in a way that is going to be, Ithink, of great benefit to the
people of this province.
The only other remnants of the old way of thinking that
canbe found on the opposition benches and in the New Democraticcaucus room are
there in the minds of those members who served atthat time. I know that the member for Brandon East (Mr.
LeonardEvans) and his cronies certainly remember because they weresitting
around the cabinet table when many of those bad decisionsthat continue to cost
us were made. When they were finished
withthose decisions on the Jobs Fund and their interventionistapproach to
economic development, as the Leader of the Oppositionlikes to call it, when
Manitobans had had their fill, the legacythat was left was not jobs. It was not prosperity. All it was,was debt. The
Now, here is another thing. The member for Concordia (Mr.Doer), along
with all of his faithful in the party, had noproblem finding new government
money in order to satisfy theirburgeoning needs in government to spend. They took it fromworking Manitobans, and all
of the families of workingManitobans, in new taxes. I will quote this again: In six and ahalf years in government they
increased the personal income taxtake by 140 percent‑‑in six and a
half years.
This is where the real talent of the New Democrats showed
up,the real creativity of New Democrats.
Finding taxation‑‑new waysof taxation‑‑became an
art form. I have said it before, but
itbears repeating. The New Democrats never
found a tax they didnot like or did not hike.
Yet, no matter how much they increased taxes, they
stillcould not come close to balancing the budget‑‑never could
comeclose to balancing the budget, no matter how much. Of course, itis not as though they can say‑‑[interjection]
Mr. Speaker, I willget to the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie), if he will
bepatient when I get to the issue of mining.
We will talk aboutthe member for Flin Flon when we get to that issue.
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It is not as though they have, in fact, learned anything
byit or that they can say they would be different today, because wehave
examples all around us. Here‑‑you
see the problem is, Ihave the utmost respect for Bob Rae. I think he is a man ofintegrity. He is an honest, a decent and an honourable
person,but he has the unfortunate error of having surrounded himselfwith a
number of refugees from the New Democratic administrationin
As a result, they are bringing forward all of these
crazyideas that they put in
I am not even going to bother to read the speeches that
weremade on Bill 70, the outrage that was expressed by membersopposite, who
said a New Democratic administration would neverfreeze or roll back wages‑‑never.
Now here we have our neighbouring province threatening
twochoices: either tax hikes, and he
talks about tax hikes, andthere are tax hikes that are so creative and
interesting thatthey bear a little bit of discussion, I might tell you,
butincreases in fees of all sorts; and, of course, the other side ofthe coin is
wage freezes and rollbacks. That is what
the threatis in New Democratic Ontario. [interjection] Well, that was a fewdays
earlier. Here is the Toronto Star of
Saturday afternoon,NDP eyes highway tolls to jump‑start recovery‑‑highway
toll.
Now, I do not ever want them to razz the Minister of
Highwaysand Transportation (Mr. Driedger) of our province about hismusings
about toll fees, because here their colleagues in Ontarioare already taking a
look at implementing them. Now, these
arethe three ways in which they are going to jump‑start the
Ontarioeconomy, I might say.
Firstly, and this is the heading, it says, motorists
couldsoon be paying tolls on some Ontario highways under a massive newgovernment
strategy to fund repairs to roads, bridges, sewers,and to create affordable
housing. The plan will be presented
tothe New Democratic cabinet very soon.
Here is a quote from oneof the provincial officials, this will be done
as soon as ishumanly possible. We are in
the midst of a recession, adepression.
We need these programs to begin to startimmediately, an official in the
Premier's office said.
The three new Crown corporations would be‑‑now
listen tothis‑‑interventionist government, get to the point. Firstly, theOntario Transportation
Corporation. This company would build
andmaintain new roads and bridges addressing the ProvincialAuditor's report
that 60 percent of the province's transportationsystems are in poor shape. The company would then finance thenew road
systems and repairs by charging tolls to drivers usingthe new upgraded
arteries.
An Honourable Member: And off
the balance sheet.
Mr. Filmon: Off the
balance sheet all of the debt, and financeit through tolls to drivers.
Here is the second one.
The
An Honourable Member: Off the
balance sheet again.
Mr. Filmon: Off the
balance sheet, higher fees for your water.
Here is the third one, and of course members opposite
willsee a glimmer of familiarity in this one, the Ontario
RealtyCorporation. Now, the province
would become the largest realtycompany in the world under this scenario a
government sourcesaid. It would borrow
money to purchase up to $400 million worthof provincial land holdings from the
government thus reducing theOntario deficit.
It would then leverage joint agreements withprivate developers that
would ensure construction of affordablehousing, and so on.
Margaret Kelch, Assistant Deputy Minister of
Transportation,said in an interview that the plan would be to charge tolls
onhighways without having to erect tollbooths and create massivetraffic
jams. She told the Star the government
may adopt asystem pioneered by the state of
Mr. Speaker, our government knows that bigger deficits
andhigher taxes are not the answer. You
know, members opposite overthe last little while have been making a career of
pointingfingers, gleefully talking about the food banks across thestreet. That is a favourite of the member for
Concordia (Mr.Doer). Well, I have been
here long enough to remember that therewere not food banks in this province
until the NDP took office inthe 1980s.
(Mrs.
Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)
That was an innovation that was brought about by
NewDemocratic administration in our province.
I remember as wellthat Maureen Hemphill was so concerned about the lack
of supportthat was being given by her government to social services thatshe
started collecting clothing and distributing it to needyfamilies, because they
simply were not doing enough in thosedays.
Madam Deputy Speaker, now, of course, the New Democratsare pointing out
a finger and saying it is all a result of thisadministration. Well, all of those things happened under
NewDemocratic administration, and if they want to look at anyprovince in this
country, including those with New Democraticadministrations, they will see that
there is plenty of grief andsuffering and brokenness out there for everyone,
and that it isnot in any way attributable to a philosophy or a government
incharge.
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Madam Deputy Speaker, we can start going through
thestatistics chapter and verse about the suffering, and it does nothelp
any. It does not help. The fact of the
matter is thataccepting a New Democratic solution to it would not do
anythingmore for the misery, but it would ensure that the long‑term
debtkept that misery around a lot longer.
Accepting change is one of the most difficult
propositionsthat any person can face, and we know as individuals it is ourhuman
nature to be wary of the future and the changes that itmight bring. There is no question that we all experience
thatconcern and that anxiety. Yet in
Things are moving quickly out there. There is a real worldout there economically,
socially, politically, that is changingin virtually every sector of the world,
every sector of ourcountry, and it is more obvious than ever that we have to
beinnovative, that we have to be flexible, and that we have to beadaptable to
meet the challenges of that rapidly changing world.
The real face of change, I think, is underlined by an
examplethat I think we can all relate to.
When we held our lastprovincial election in 1990, the Soviet Union was
the largestcountry in the world, and Communism still was reigning out therein
Rapid global change has rendered all of the old
assumptionsand traditional practices almost useless in this new age. Weneed to find new ways and new thinking to
find solutions to theproblems that face us.
Above all we have to be innovative, andthat was the principal message
that was put forth by the Economicand Innovation Technology Council forum last
month here in theprovince. It is the new
reality. It is the climate in which
allof us must compete. Government and
the private sector, all of usmust strive and compete in that new reality if we
are going toexcel.
I know that Manitobans can excel in this new world. I knowthat they will be able to build their future
strong again as wego into a new millennium, and I am proud to say that
We have already
Take the People's Republic of China; they are operating
ontheir transition to what they call a socialist market economy.Now I am not
sure what exactly that means, but I do know that itis looking more and more
suspiciously like a competitive marketeconomy, and they are moving in steps
gradually over a decade toget to a market economy such as we find in most areas
of theworld.
Last month several of us were over there in the
People'sRepublic of China with private sector people to meet withministerial
level people from the ministry of commerce, ministryof energy, ministry of
agriculture, ministry of foreign economicrelations and trade.
In the
(Mr. Speaker in the Chair)
You can imagine my shock and disappointment when I found
outthat the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) has been critical ofour efforts
to foster this kind of investment in tradepromotion. You can imagine how shocked I was when the
Leader ofthe Opposition said I was spending too much time out of theprovince,
that this was not good for
Mr. Speaker, while he was here poor‑mouthing
I will go anywhere in the world to promote opportunities
forManitoba. Anytime it means
investment, job creation, tradeopportunities for Manitobans, I will go there,
every time.
Mr. Speaker, you know, in his supercilious way, the
memberfor Dauphin (Mr. Plohman) makes comments about who
representsManitoba. I will just quote
from some letters that we got fromthe people who were with us: Dear Mr. Premier: It was apersonal pleasure being a part of the
official Manitobadelegation to Hong Kong and
The next one: On
behalf of the Agri‑Tec businessmen, I wouldlike to thank you for inviting
us to accompany you to China.Premiers open doors that are difficult to access
as abusinessman. Equally important, the
people we see in the normalcourse of business are aware that we have met with
theirsuperiors as members of the Manitoba Premier's delegation.Following your
official meetings, Agri‑Tec met with variousgovernment agencies and
organizations. They were all aware ofthe
high‑level
Mr. Speaker, these are real opportunities that are
beingcreated, and they are not the kind of thing, the cheap, two‑bitkind
of criticism that we are being given by the New DemocraticParty, and I have to
tell you that it is interesting that hiscolleagues who are in government are
all over there. Bob Rae wasin
Mr. Speaker, they were all over there because they know
thatthere are opportunities for business and for expansion of theireconomies,
and they believe in that, but it is only a NewDemocrat Leader of the Opposition
who does not live in the realworld, who can get away with that kind of cheap,
two-bit criticism‑‑cheap,
two-bit criticism.
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Our government has been preparing for and coping
withchange. For example, even in Japan,
in our traditionally strongagricultural sector, the areas of trade goals for
Manitoba todayand in the future are not in the traditional area of wheat
sales,for instance. What are we selling
over there? New, specialtyinnovative
agricultural products aimed at niche markets.
Grassseed, bird seed, pheasant, goose, turkey, honey, buckwheat,
allsorts of diversified products that did not even exist as a market10 years
ago are the markets of today, and you have to be therein order to do the work
to establish those markets for ourproducers and suppliers.
Today, you can find made‑in‑Manitoba products
like books andpressure‑treated lattice wood panels; thermopane windows
rightacross the United States, new markets that have opened up even inthe past
few years; silk blouses at Saks Fifth Avenue in NewYork; lottery tickets being
sold in Spain; busses in SanFrancisco; french fries at all of the McDonald's
outlets inTokyo; Wrangler and Calvin Klein jeans in Vancouver andMontreal. The Chameleon computer software system that
enablesconsumers as far away as
The international cosmetics giant Estee Lauder is using
astheir point‑of‑purchase sale computer software, software that
wasdeveloped by a
Those are opportunities that were not there a decade
ago.Those are new markets in niche areas that Manitobans are able tofulfill and
succeed in. These are positive stories
that younever, ever hear from the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) orhis
colleagues. They never want to get
actively involved inhelping Manitobans to build stronger.
Manitobans, I believe, are looking to their government,
totheir representatives in government.
They are looking to all ofus to do whatever we can to get our economy
growing again. It isthe No. 1 priority
for Manitobans, and they do not want to havesomebody out there with negative
messages carping andcomplaining, doom and gloom, cheap shots. They want somebody outthere rolling up their
sleeves and working to create a betterenvironment. That is what they want.
That is what this throne speech is all about. It is about avision for a stronger economic
base for
Tax initiatives and credits in mining have created
newopportunities and stimulated exploration and development that hasnot been
seen in this province for decades. It
has not been seensince the early '70s, when the Schreyer government brought
inpunitive taxation rates on mining and royalties in thisprovince. Finally we are getting firms from as far away
asAustralia who have not been here for decades investing inexploration and
development.
Mr. Speaker, here is an article from The Northern
Miner. Thetitle is: NDP killing mining. It goes on to say that thehardest hit
provinces for investment in mining are
Here are some more quotes that were said about
theinitiatives that were brought forward by the Minister of Energyand Mines,
the former Minister of Energy and Mines, and theMinister of Finance in the
course of the last two budgets.
Headline in The Northern Miner:
Another quote, from the president of Noranda Exploration:
Look at more things that are being said about our
mining.From an article in The Northern Miner:
But the provinces, or atleast some of them, are also learning that they
have to competeto attract capital to make those mines. In that sense,
We will continue to improve the way that our government
doesbusiness. We will continue to
upgrade all of the programs thatwe have for attracting investment and job
creation.
Mr. Speaker, I want to just take a moment, while I am on
thetopic of change, to say a few words about the recent announcementby the
Leader of the Liberal Party, the member for
The member for
I think her resignation and her leaving that role leaves
agreat vacuum there, because we certainly do not get anyleadership out of the
official opposition in terms of theircriticisms. They make these vacuous criticisms, such as
theLeader of the Opposition is making a big fuss these days about anincrease in
Autopac rates, and he is saying that compared toinflation, they are a terribly
big increase. Well, of course,you cannot
compare them to inflation because what has changed isthe increase in claims,
and the increase in claims, despite lowinflation, has gone up 16.5 percent
because of court awards fordamage, bodily injury damages. It has absolutely nothing to dowith inflation
when courts are giving huge increases of 16.5percent on the claims, Mr.
Speaker.
It is absolutely foolish that we see these kinds of‑‑and
youknow the theatrics that the member for Concordia (Mr. Doer) goesthrough to
try and attract attention and to try and portrayhimself as something, to try
and sneak out a clip and to try andplant a seed in the minds of the media.
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We saw, for instance, the member for Concordia go out
afterthe throne speech, and media people told me that four times inabout a
three‑minute scrum he tried to compare me to GeorgeBush. Of course, he thought that somebody out there
might makethe connection and say, well, then, he must be Bill Clinton. Ihave to admit that I am no George Bush, but
he sure as heck is noBill
I have to talk a little bit more about his capability as
anopposition. The effectiveness of the
Leader of the Opposition, Ithink, was shown by an ad that appeared in the
Winnipeg FreePress. They said: In the Legislature there is the Premier,
thecabinet, the official opposition and the second opposition party,and then
there is legislative reporter Donald Campbell, the realopposition.
That advertisement may say something about the state of
thecraft of journalism in today's world, but I believe it says awhole lot more
about the sorry state of the opposition benches inour Legislature.
I understand, as a matter of fact, that the member
forConcordia (Mr. Doer) has now joined the legislative press galleryhockey team. Did I hear that correctly? He is playing for thelegislative press
gallery hockey team? Well, Mr. Speaker,
I wastold that the member for Concordia has joined the hockey team ofthe
legislative press gallery, and even there he plays secondstring.
I just want to make one point here as I draw to a
conclusionabout some of the contributions that have been made by
membersopposite. I found particularly
offensive a comment that was madeby the member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli). This is the quote thatwas in her remarks, and
I quote: I hate to say it, but when
Ilook across at the benches opposite, I see a bunch of old whiteguys. That is the majority of the impression that I
am facedwith on a daily basis.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed, I might say, in
themedia for not picking up on that, because if that statement hadbeen made by
a member on this side of the House, or if thatstatement and the adjective in it
had been any other race orcolour, there would have been a charge to the Human
RightsCommission for that statement, because we in this province andevery other
province in Canada do not allow discrimination as toage, as to colour or as to
gender. That comment is a
raciststatement which discriminates on all three.
The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), of course, loves
toplay this kind of politics of division, this kind of politics ofracism. His member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli) ought
to be notonly disciplined, but ought to be ashamed of herself for thatkind of
offensive statement. I truly regret that
we have amember in this House who has that integrity and those ethics.
Mr. Speaker, I just want to add a few remarks about
thethings that Manitobans can be proud of.
One of them is that thisgovernment in five straight budgets has not increased
taxes.That is no increase in personal taxes, no increase in corporatetaxes and
no increase in the retail sales tax. As
well as doingthat, we have controlled our provincial deficit.
In all of those things, we have also been able to
continuefunding to Health, Education and Family Services by
significantincreases beyond inflation.
As a matter of fact, in reviewingthe proportion of our budget that is
spent on Health, Educationand Family Services, it is greater today than it ever
was underthe New Democrats in government‑‑greater than it ever was
inthose days.
I believe that those are things that Manitobans can be
proudof. No matter what the member for
Concordia (Mr. Doer) says, hecannot change the facts. We are working with Manitobans tocreate a
stronger
We are ranked No. 1 in manufacturing investment intentions,ranked
No. 1 in private capital investment intentions.
There is tremendous change going on in the world, but
thereis also tremendous opportunity. The
simple reality is that thereis no easy solution to
I believe that as time goes on more and more
Manitobansrecognize that fact. There is
no easy solution, and althoughthey want to hear good news, I believe Manitobans
above all wantto hear the truth. Good or
bad, they just want to know wherethey stand and who will stand with them
through good times andbad, and that is this government.
We have a skilled and productive work force, the
mostproductive agricultural land in the west, abundant mineral andforestry
resources, the cheapest hydroelectricity in NorthAmerica, and an ideal location
in the centre of
We have taken a positive approach to government. I say toyou that, no matter how fast the
world changes today, we have tobe prepared for success just the same way that
we have been doingin the past. Each of
us has to look for our strengths in our ownregions and our own communities, and
turn those strengths intoproducts and services that the world needs and
opportunities forManitobans. Throughout
our history, our greatest achievementshave been based on hard work and
determination to succeed againstall odds.
It is the thread that binds all Manitobans and uponwhich Canadians have
built one of the greatest nations in theworld.
Mr. Speaker, believing in ourselves, believing that we
cansucceed, believing that we can be the best is the first steptoward being the
best. I believe in
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I invite all Manitobans to work with us to make this
provinceof ours even greater. I will be
voting in support of the thronespeech, and I invite all members of the House to
join me in thatsupport, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: Pursuant
to Rule 35(4), I am interrupting theproceedings in order to put the question on
the motion of thehonourable member for
Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?
Some Honourable Members:
Nay.
Mr. Speaker: No. All those in favour of the motion, please
sayyea.
Some Honourable Members:
Yea.
Mr. Speaker: All
those opposed, please say nay.
Some Honourable Members:
Nay.
Mr. Speaker: In my
opinion, the Yeas have it.
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): On division, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: On
division.
Is it the will of the House to call it six o'clock? The hourbeing 6 p.m., this House now adjourns
and stands adjourned until1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Wednesday).